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childminder54
14-07-2014, 09:35 PM
I know we cannot charge to pick up and drop off child's house as it's classed as a taxi service. It's 3days it's 10miles round trip for the 3days but have to us car. I've dropped my hourly rate from £3.50 to £3.00 as I'm loosing children parents having baby's and going to school & nursery. I'm having new parents visiting me for childcare but going to people closer to them. I've had about 6 come, so I need the money. She is 22 with two children but saying herself and partner don't have very much money. She doesn't drive. My point is how much do I charge for doing this.

Koala
15-07-2014, 03:38 AM
I can see you want to get the business but think carefully.

I was once told when you get in the car to consider that it costs you £5 - This was to stop needless short trips that weren't necessary and plan accordingly. So to do a 10 mile round trip to earn £3 per hour is a bit tight, if it's a full day and two children maybe its not too bad but if they are likely to skimp on hours or if it's for one child you could soon be working for nothing. And it isn't your problem they don't have much money or a car - you'll be in the same position if you don't seriously consider the cost element.

I wouldn't do it (so many reasons: bad weather, traffic, car breakdown, potential loss of other parents because of pick up and drop off commitments etc... etc...) but if I did I would consider at least a £5 charge and to safeguard myself would raise my hourly rate by £1.00 to £4 to cover the additional time to pick up and drop off and car expenses. So I would charge £4 per hour which in reality you are only charging an extra 50p per hour from your normal rates!! if it's for 2 children that may swing my decision but when parents think they are paying a higher rate even though you are in effect getting a lower rate because of vehicle expenses, they may expect EXTRA special treatment :panic: a recipe for trouble :panic:

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, If you want the business go for it, it's better than nothing I suppose and it may work out fine, you never know until you try, maybe suggest that you haven't done this before but you are willing to try and to see how it goes just to give you a get out strategy. :thumbsup: .

Kiddleywinks
15-07-2014, 05:54 AM
This is probably going to sound harsh, but, none of us have very much money these days, it doesn't make a difference to the amount of the bills we have to pay....

If they are genuinely on a low income, they can claim childcare tax credits to help with their childcare bill, which can be worth up to 70%, leaving parents just 30% to pay.

To put that into perspective:
If you charged your usual rate of £3.50, parents would have to fund £1.05, with the government funding the other £2.45


I agree with Koala, and would proceed with caution.

Simona
15-07-2014, 06:35 AM
I know we cannot charge to pick up and drop off child's house as it's classed as a taxi service. It's 3days it's 10miles round trip for the 3days but have to us car. I've dropped my hourly rate from £3.50 to £3.00 as I'm loosing children parents having baby's and going to school & nursery. I'm having new parents visiting me for childcare but going to people closer to them. I've had about 6 come, so I need the money. She is 22 with two children but saying herself and partner don't have very much money. She doesn't drive. My point is how much do I charge for doing this.

I have not read anywhere that you cannot charge for pick up and drop off...would you be able to point us to any such declaration?
As you are an independent business you decide what suits you or the parents and stay competitive
obviously you must consider the implications for your routine and make sure you cover your expenses such as petrol and car insurance

Please remember that your rate is extremely low at £3...once you take out your expenses you will be left with very little
also if parents choose a setting just because of the vicinity rather than the quality of it...all that we have been discussing about quality childcare will be lost

Good luck

Simona
15-07-2014, 06:36 AM
[QUOTE=Simona;1370254]I have not read anywhere that you cannot charge for pick up and drop off...would you be able to point us to any such declaration?
As you are an independent business you decide what suits you or the parents and stay competitive
obviously you must consider the implications for your routine and make sure you cover your expenses such as petrol and car insurance

Please remember that your rate is extremely low at £3...once you take out your expenses you will be left with very little
Also bear in mind parents get a lot of financial help for their childcare while we providers don't.

Lastly if parents choose a setting just because of the vicinity rather than the quality of it...all that we have been discussing about quality childcare will be lost

Good luck

Koala
15-07-2014, 07:58 AM
I have not read anywhere that you cannot charge for pick up and drop off...would you be able to point us to any such declaration?



From my understanding most insurance policies restrict using vehicles for payment i.e. taxi - which if a charge was made for pick up and drop offs it would be classed as a taxi. And you may well have to be registered with local council etc... etc.... : Therefore additional cover and a whole host of worms would be let out of the can. :panic: :panic: I think this is the main obstacle. :thumbsup: Your right Simona it is your own business and you can do what you want, but you have to be very careful what you do do as a business. :thumbsup: Everyone want a piece of you.

Chatterbox Childcare
15-07-2014, 08:39 AM
I would charge an extra £4.50 per day to cover the miles but add it into your price as a day rate.

littlebears1009
15-07-2014, 08:43 AM
I think if you put it down as charging for the time rather than as a taxi fare that should be fine. I know a few cm's who do this.

bunyip
15-07-2014, 08:54 AM
I'm not aware of any written 'rule' about what we can/cannot charge, but there is a sensible way to look at this. It is sensible to avoid stating an itemised charge for anything car-related, simply cos some LAs would want to treat you as a taxi firm if you did. It's an outside possibility, but an unnecessary and avoidable risk, so why take the chance?

The simple and sensible thing would be to forget for a moment you're a CM with all our bizarre ways of doing things, and act like the other 99.99999999999999999999% of self-employed small traders. Instead of: hourly rate + petrol + meals + banana yoghurt + packet-of-loom-bands-to-shut-the-little-blighter up = fee, do something radically normal for a normal business. Offer a price for the job.

Simple calculation. Figure out what it costs you to do the job (in full, including all your time, petrol, banana yoghurts, and a proportion of your fixed costs such as insurance, training, subscriptions, etc.) Add on the profit you deem necessary to make it worth getting out of bed for. Add whatever you need to cover tax, if applicable. And Robert becomes your dad's brother.

If 'The Market' (in this case, at a micro-economic level, = low-income mum) won't stand the fee, you have options. Lower the fee to an acceptable one if there remains some benefit in doing the job for less; this is known as a "loss-leader". This might be because it would help attract business or, in my case, I thought I might get to sleep with the mum, 'professionally', of course (:cool: dream on Bunyip...) Or tell mum ('professionally', of course) to take a hike. Or find a more profitable business to be in.

This is how the economy works in the Real (ie. non-CMing) World, and has done since about the time of the Early Renaissance. Personally, I don't like this form of Capitalism, but it's the way the World is and I deal with realities. And the reality is that the world is still in a pre-revolutionary phase and the time has not yet come.:( But when it does................................ :rolleyes:

As an aside, parents pay much lip service to "quality care" but when push comes to shove, IME 9 out of 10 will put cost and convenience first, so long as they perceive the child to be safe and reasonably happy. I have to say, whenever I've picked up a client looking for "quality", it's usually cos they've already been to someone closer/cheaper and discovered the grim reality of poor standards first.

rickysmiths
15-07-2014, 10:05 AM
I have not read anywhere that you cannot charge for pick up and drop off...would you be able to point us to any such declaration?
As you are an independent business you decide what suits you or the parents and stay competitive
obviously you must consider the implications for your routine and make sure you cover your expenses such as petrol and car insurance

Please remember that your rate is extremely low at £3...once you take out your expenses you will be left with very little
also if parents choose a setting just because of the vicinity rather than the quality of it...all that we have been discussing about quality childcare will be lost

Good luck

Simona it has been discussed often. If you make a charge to collect and/or deliver a child by car your Car Insurance Company will consider you are behaving like a Taxi and charging for Hire and Reward. Hence if you make a clear charge just for this service you run the risk of finding you would not be insured and so would be working illegally if you continued. Some local Councils would pull you up on this as well and insist you register as a Taxi.

rickysmiths
15-07-2014, 10:16 AM
OP I would not lower your rate by 50p per hour I don't know where in the Country you are but £3 is very low.

If the parents are so hard yo they will get up to 70% of your fees paid anyway.

If they are already playing the poverty card do you really want to take them on?

10 miles is a long round trip. What happens if you break down? What happens if the road is closed because of an accident? What about snow or other extreme weather?

What about the time spent in the car doing 10 mile round trip which is going to take you a min of 45-50 mins?

Will you have other mindees with you? What about them being in the car for such a run and how do you think their parents will feel? I often take my mindees out in the car and we will go up to 25 miles away like we did last week but the end goal was a walk around a Gruffalo wood which all the mindees with me were able to enjoy.

If you do do it then I would up your hourly rate to £4 and charge from when you leave home to collect to when you get home again and the same when you drop back in the evening remembering that if there is a delay beyond your control you will invoice for that time as well because you would not have been there but for the collection and delivery if you see what I mean?

childminder54
15-07-2014, 10:29 AM
Sorry if I put it and you miss read my thread it's 3.1 miles a day round trip x 3 days =9.3miles I rounded it up to 10 miles

Ripeberry
15-07-2014, 10:31 AM
I usually find parents that plead 'poverty' are trying it on. I struggle, but I don't tell people that I can't afford things. Be careful and make sure they pay up front each month.

Koala
15-07-2014, 10:36 AM
Sorry if I put it and you miss read my thread it's 3.1 miles a day round trip x 3 days =9.3miles I rounded it up to 10 miles

I would still apply the same amount because the major cost is actually turning your engine on, the difference in mileage would be irrespective to me unless it was a lot. It is probably not much more to go ten miles to 3 miles because the fuel use is high for short journeys, once your engine is running consumption is lower, I hope that makes sense. :thumbsup:

rickysmiths
15-07-2014, 10:36 AM
Sorry if I put it and you miss read my thread it's 3.1 miles a day round trip x 3 days =9.3miles I rounded it up to 10 miles

Sorry I did miss read. Oh for goodness sake they could walk!!! I used to walk that far to take my two to school every day because I didn't have a car then. Lazy whatsits. Sorry but I wouldn't do it end of. They are taking the mick.

Simona
15-07-2014, 02:14 PM
Sorry I did miss read. Oh for goodness sake they could walk!!! I used to walk that far to take my two to school every day because I didn't have a car then. Lazy whatsits. Sorry but I wouldn't do it end of. They are taking the mick.

I would not walk 3.1 miles in the morning and then again after a long day...but we all differ...are the children lazy or just asking too much of them early in the morning and after a long day in care?

If parents ask for children to be picked up and dropped off all that a CM needs to do is add the extra time of her care on the hours...no need to charge like a taxi
Our cars are insured for use against our business and that can include picking up and dropping off...it is called flexibility and plenty of cms do it

loocyloo
15-07-2014, 03:02 PM
I took it to be 3.1 miles round trip for childminder each day ... so 1.5 miles am/pm so 3/4 mile each way? ... we walk that to school each day ... my 2 yr olds do it there and back twice a day.

Koala
15-07-2014, 03:38 PM
I took it to be 3.1 miles round trip for childminder each day ... so 1.5 miles am/pm so 3/4 mile each way? ... we walk that to school each day ... my 2 yr olds do it there and back twice a day.

OMG if that's the case - I would definitely be thinking they are having a laugh asking for pick up and drop off. Make no wonder they havn't got any money - lazy :censored: .

Simona
15-07-2014, 03:44 PM
OMG if that's the case - I would definitely be thinking they are having a laugh asking for pick up and drop off. Make no wonder they havn't got any money - lazy :censored: .

If the parents are prepared to pay for it I see no problem...part of the service if the CM is willing to do it
I used to pick up a child...parents and myself agreed and all were happy

covgalxxx
15-07-2014, 05:23 PM
If they haven't asked to walk , there may be a problem, when I was a single mum, my son would go school then my disabled one would be ill or go school, 9 times out of 10 she was ill, and I had my daughter who was 1, I couldn't find a childminder where I was so nearest one was a 10 /15 min bus ride , and a 10 min walk, found one , and I was fine with riding the bus and dropping my daughter off, but she worked out the school she dropped the kids to was 5 mins away from me, so changed my hours to work round her she picked my daughter up after school drop off, and drop her off before school pick up,, worked well for both of us, I was happy to pay for minder as needed my little one to stop being a number one mummy's girl, and when my disabled one was ill it helped a lot as didn't have no one else to worry about , but back to you I think its a lot for you if your not going that way, and if they didn't offer to take the children what's to say if your ill will they pick there child up or wait for you to drop them off,

Koala
15-07-2014, 07:14 PM
If the parents are prepared to pay for it I see no problem...part of the service if the CM is willing to do it
I used to pick up a child...parents and myself agreed and all were happy

covgalxxx
If they haven't asked to walk , there may be a problem, when I was a single mum, my son would go school then my disabled one would be ill or go school, 9 times out of 10 she was ill, and I had my daughter who was 1, I couldn't find a childminder where I was so nearest one was a 10 /15 min bus ride , and a 10 min walk, found one , and I was fine with riding the bus and dropping my daughter off, but she worked out the school she dropped the kids to was 5 mins away from me, so changed my hours to work round her she picked my daughter up after school drop off, and drop her off before school pick up,, worked well for both of us, I was happy to pay for minder as needed my little one to stop being a number one mummy's girl, and when my disabled one was ill it helped a lot as didn't have no one else to worry about , but back to you I think its a lot for you if your not going that way, and if they didn't offer to take the children what's to say if your ill will they pick there child up or wait for you to drop them off,

Totally agree with both points - Simona - if they are happy to pay for it - fine - but I think this is probably the point. :thumbsup:

Covgal - absolutely if special circumstances are playing a part but I am not aware that they are. :thumbsup:

childminder54
15-07-2014, 09:43 PM
The child is 3 in January she has another child she has to drop off at school which is in a different direction to were I live.