Pacey or Morgan Michele

[childminder54]

My insurance & public liability is up with pacey it's gone up to £80 don't know if to change, to Morton Michele. Whats the different between the two how much is Morton to insure for the year.

[hectors house]

Morton Michel is only about £50, you still get option to buy their stationery and they will still cover you against bad debts if you use PACEY contracts or even your own (whereas I believe that with PACEY you have to use their own). You can get a Creative steps on-line magazine each quarter, on-line tutorials and regular updates about changes in legislation etc. With PACEY though you aren't just paying for the liability insurance you are also paying to be a member of a Professional body who represents childminders by eg: lobbying parliament and promoting the fact that we are equal to other childcare professionals.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Also look at the policy as they are not the same. Different cover for outside play for example. I live in a cul de sac and can see the road from my window, MM policy says I have to be outside with my over 8's, Pacey does not. this is just one difference that I am aware of.

[bunyip]

Also look at the policy as they are not the same. Different cover for outside play for example. I live in a cul de sac and can see the road from my window, MM policy says I have to be outside with my over 8's, Pacey does not. this is just one difference that I am aware of.

A very good point.

Here's another one. We CMs all get justifiably p1553d off over parents who only want the cheapest childcare they can get away with, instead of looking at what they're getting and maybe opting for the best they can afford. So why are CMs happy to do exactly the same thing when it comes to looking for insurance cover?????? :huh:

[childminder54]

I am loosing children and cannot seem to replace them. I've not put my fees up with minders I already have. Only when new ones start. Trying to make ends meet. Why should I pay £30 more if they both offer the same to what I need.
You might have money to grow away but I don't. I've been with them for 18years and I think it's time to move, I'm lucky I've never had to use them or ask for help only used there stationery. The point you make about parents trying to get cheaper childcare if the boot was on the other foot I think you would do the same.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I think that all that is being said is "compare and see what you get from each company". Some say MM, some say pacey, I am saying I was with MM and changed to Pacey because the MM policy didn't offer what I needed. If you feel otherwise then you need to research both companies and make your choice. I personally wouldn't ask the question on here as we all make choices for different reasons - as you will see MOST (not all) people change to MM because they get their money back - this is not what I want my policy for, it is to cover me with public liability if needed.

[rickysmiths]

My insurance & public liability is up with pacey it's gone up to £80 don't know if to change, to Morton Michele. Whats the different between the two how much is Morton to insure for the year.

I'm sorry but Pacey PLI has not gone up to £80.

Pacey is a membership organisation which represents childminders and has done for years. Without them you would have been paying several hundred pounds a year for your Ofsted registration, you would be paying £250 per year for your IOC registration instead of £35pa.

Pacey PLI insurance costs £21pa the rest is your membership fee.

Morton Michel are an Insurance Broker who have no interest in childminders except to sell them insurance and their PLI is around £45 I believe so twice the cost of Pacey insurance. Yes they offer 'sweeteners' to get cm to buy insurance from them, they offer a 'free' magazine but it isn't because their insurance is far more expensive.

Yes if you decide to go to MM you will pay less overall but you will be paying more for your insurance.

[rickysmiths]

I am loosing children and cannot seem to replace them. I've not put my fees up with minders I already have. Only when new ones start. Trying to make ends meet. Why should I pay £30 more if they both offer the same to what I need.
You might have money to grow away but I don't. I've been with them for 18years and I think it's time to move, I'm lucky I've never had to use them or ask for help only used there stationery. The point you make about parents trying to get cheaper childcare if the boot was on the other foot I think you would do the same.

It is not a question of throwing money away though. I have just come out of 3 really terrible years and have been really down on my children and money but I would never have give up my membership of Pacey. I have met too many good friends via Pacey for a start some of whom kept me going and motivated through the rough times, I have never made friends when using an Insurance Broker to buy Insurance.

I think it is a bit of a myth that Pacey don't support collecting money owed from parents they have helped me very successfully in the past. They have changed the Solicitors they use now and their advise has been much better than in the past.

I just feel strongly that childminders, especially in these changing times with Agencies etc. need some representation and Pacey are doing this, they may not shout out aloud about what they are doing but they are and I have been made aware just yesterday of some things they are doing with regard to Agencies. Maybe if you don't go to Local Forum meetings or Conferences or go on Pacey Local you may not be aware of all that they do.

I think childminders would without doubt be in a worse place today without NCMA/Pacey.

[Lal]

Pre-school Learning Alliance also do membership and insurance too. I'm still deciding who to use for insurance.

[Simona]

PLA membership is £42 and the PLI is £27.59...ring their membership dept and ask for information
There is also the Independent Cminders Social Enterprise which is a trade body...google them and then ring to ask for more information

Pacey, PLA and the SE all have insurance via Royal Sun Alliance
UKCMA is another but I know little about them and I believe they use Morton Michele anyway

PLA and the SE also lobby on our behalf not just Pacey.

In the end we choose the association that represents us best especially at the present times of constant changes

While it was good to have out Ofsted registration fee set at £35 I also think it has proved not to be an advantage ...it has been frozen for another year at that level but who knows what is in the pipeline after that especially when we are still unaware of what agencies will charge their CMs.

Not easy to choose but a little bit of research will decide who is best for each of us.

[Snowwhite]

After 6 years of paying Ncma/Pacey membership and insurance i was getting to the stage where i was thinking is it worth sticking with them or going with MM.Every year Pacey put the price up and i find them very overpriced and living in Wales most of the things in their magazine only applied to those in England. After a lot of reasearch last yr i left Pacey and became a MM member for a lot less. I don't pay membership, just insurance,which is the difference to Pacey. I appear to be getting everything i need but for less money.Don't pay p and p on paperwork and it's roughly around same price as Paceys although 1 or 2 things may be a bit more.
Downside is that there paperwork doesn't seem to come as neat at Paceys,meaning its all loose & has to be filed or you would loose it!
Also i don't have a membership card to proove at certain playcentres that i am a Childminder and can get in cheaper, as of course i'm no longer paying for membership.Instead i have photo copied my registration certificate and MM insurance paper & show that at a playcentre.They accept it. I am due to re-new in Aug but it has gone up in price.£50, which includes £1 admin fee (which seems a bit unfair!)

[rickysmiths]

After 6 years of paying Ncma/Pacey membership and insurance i was getting to the stage where i was thinking is it worth sticking with them or going with MM.Every year Pacey put the price up and i find them very overpriced and living in Wales most of the things in their magazine only applied to those in England. After a lot of reasearch last yr i left Pacey and became a MM member for a lot less. I don't pay membership, just insurance,which is the difference to Pacey. I appear to be getting everything i need but for less money.Don't pay p and p on paperwork and it's roughly around same price as Paceys although 1 or 2 things may be a bit more.
Downside is that there paperwork doesn't seem to come as neat at Paceys,meaning its all loose & has to be filed or you would loose it!
Also i don't have a membership card to proove at certain playcentres that i am a Childminder and can get in cheaper, as of course i'm no longer paying for membership.Instead i have photo copied my registration certificate and MM insurance paper & show that at a playcentre.They accept it. I am due to re-new in Aug but it has gone up in price.£50, which includes £1 admin fee (which seems a bit unfair!)

You can not become a Member of MM! They are purely an Insurance Broker not a Membership organisation. You wouldn't have a membership card because you can not be a member of MM you just buy insurance from them. Having a membership card that may give you discounts is a privilege you get when you join an Association like Pacey or the PLA.

I renew my Pacey insurance at the end of the month, no price increase or admin fee, it is still £21 plus £5 for Employers Insurance for my Assistants. Membership this year is £60, abargin for a professional membership organisation.


I agree with you Simona about the Ofsted Registration fee it was good at first when the proposed fee was going to be £91 a year but the original plan was the £25 would gradually rise to the £90ish and it has only gone up £10 in 13 years which is a bit unrealistic.

I know when and if agencies get going we will be charged more but I would rather pay Ofsted more to retain my individual grading that pay some Agency even more money to fall under their grading.

[Simona]

After 6 years of paying Ncma/Pacey membership and insurance i was getting to the stage where i was thinking is it worth sticking with them or going with MM.Every year Pacey put the price up and i find them very overpriced and living in Wales most of the things in their magazine only applied to those in England. After a lot of reasearch last yr i left Pacey and became a MM member for a lot less. I don't pay membership, just insurance,which is the difference to Pacey. I appear to be getting everything i need but for less money.Don't pay p and p on paperwork and it's roughly around same price as Paceys although 1 or 2 things may be a bit more.
Downside is that there paperwork doesn't seem to come as neat at Paceys,meaning its all loose & has to be filed or you would loose it!
Also i don't have a membership card to proove at certain playcentres that i am a Childminder and can get in cheaper, as of course i'm no longer paying for membership.Instead i have photo copied my registration certificate and MM insurance paper & show that at a playcentre.They accept it. I am due to re-new in Aug but it has gone up in price.£50, which includes £1 admin fee (which seems a bit unfair!)

I think that if you were to present your OFSTED registration certificate that would override any m'ship card and get you your benefits of cheaper entrance
Another way to get in and prove we are cms is the DBS certificate that cms get now when they apply for the check.

In my view membership has to reflect what the association offers to us that we like and buy...for me it is not paperwork but representation, what the association does and says on my behalf and how strong their influence is and open to all suggestion and opinion from its members

I have seen paperwork and contracts devised by others...very disappointing and costly...I strongly believe there is nothing better than your own ...costs nothing ...just a little use of the grey cells and the best benefit is that it can be updated anytime we want and, at the moment, updates are going to be very regular

I am about to update mine according to EYFS 2014 then...I am sure I will have to redo that when my LA decides to become an agency and when agencies reveal their model of operation and then ...who knows if there is a change in govt...back again to someone else's policies

The same goes for those devising online planning/assessment/daily diaries/LJs or whatever...they cost money and are not the best because it is someone else's idea...your own is best and it is easy to devise and put online

People will always promote their own association over any other but we need to safeguard our own business and CMs interests :thumbsup:

Rickysmiths...I think the lower fee for registration was ok at the start but that meant CMs were given special favours and considered as not able to afford the fee
Same with ICO fee...cms still moan about paying that ...why? when the rest of the sector pays without even blinking

We wanted to be special so look where we have ended up...in my case with an agency in the shape of my very own LA

The registration fee should have risen a little each year so we would be on equal footing now and not a financial burden to Ofsted...there is also a discrepancy because some cms pay up to £104 for their registration on the Childcare Register as do nannies?
The best advice/support Pacey could have given at the time was how to manage that fee by saving a little each year and teaching CMs proper accountancy skills
Sorry but I do not think it has done us any favours ad Pacey must have known that for a very long time

[rickysmiths]

I think that if you were to present your OFSTED registration certificate that would override any m'ship card and get you your benefits of cheaper entrance
Another way to get in and prove we are cms is the DBS certificate that cms get now when they apply for the check.

In my view membership has to reflect what the association offers to us that we like and buy...for me it is not paperwork but representation, what the association does and says on my behalf and how strong their influence is and open to all suggestion and opinion from its members

I have seen paperwork and contracts devised by others...very disappointing and costly...I strongly believe there is nothing better than your own ...costs nothing ...just a little use of the grey cells and the best benefit is that it can be updated anytime we want and, at the moment, updates are going to be very regular

I am about to update mine according to EYFS 2014 then...I am sure I will have to redo that when my LA decides to become an agency and when agencies reveal their model of operation and then ...who knows if there is a change in govt...back again to someone else's policies

The same goes for those devising online planning/assessment/daily diaries/LJs or whatever...they cost money and are not the best because it is someone else's idea...your own is best and it is easy to devise and put online

People will always promote their own association over any other but we need to safeguard our own business and CMs interests :thumbsup:

Rickysmiths...I think the lower fee for registration was ok at the start but that meant CMs were given special favours and considered as not able to afford the fee
Same with ICO fee...cms still moan about paying that ...why? when the rest of the sector pays without even blinking

We wanted to be special so look where we have ended up...in my case with an agency in the shape of my very own LA

The registration fee should have risen a little each year so we would be on equal footing now and not a financial burden to Ofsted...there is also a discrepancy because some cms pay up to £104 for their registration on the Childcare Register as do nannies?
The best advice/support Pacey could have given at the time was how to manage that fee by saving a little each year and teaching CMs proper accountancy skills
Sorry but I do not think it has done us any favours ad Pacey must have known that for a very long time


I think I did say the Ofsted fees should have gone up but I think NCMA did do may cm a favour back in 2001 when many were only paying £10 per year to Social Services and it included out PLI. A jump to the proposed £91 was huge then. I think you forget how our expenses have risen in those years. It is a shame that the proposed incremental increases did not happen year on year but that was due to the pressure of cms to keep it down some still seem to think £35 is too much. But while we have a range of £2.50 per hour to £10 per hour you can see how the fee of £35 will seem a lot to a cm with maybe only one part time child on £2.50 ph. That is what is wrong though no cm should be charging so little per hour in my opinion.

[LittleRabbits]

I renew my Pacey insurance at the end of the month, no price increase or admin fee, it is still £21 plus £5 for Employers Insurance for my Assistants.


As I am registering with a friend to both be childminders, do we both have to buy individual insurance? Never thought of this, assumed have joint insurance as both live and work same premises.... I will have to give them a call

[Chatterbox Childcare]

As I am registering with a friend to both be childminders, do we both have to buy individual insurance? Never thought of this, assumed have joint insurance as both live and work same premises.... I will have to give them a call

Pacey do a membership for both groups and working together. I work with my husband and we have 1 policy with MM and 1 with Pacey so get the best of both

[LittleRabbits]

Okay, thank you