Advice on how to handle this please..urgent!

[smurfette]

so I have been having an ongoing problem at pick up the last few months.. Two of the little ones I mind are best buddies and get on great all day but at pick up the little boy turns into a monster and attacks the little girl.. He throws tantrums for mum and kicks her on the way down the driveway , behaviour I never see! He pushes the little girl or hits her and his mum is very soft, says ah no don't do that, we are going to do x (usually something nice!) and I get fed up with her not disciplining him , she also encourages him to hug her before he leaves but he doesn't he pushes or slaps her, seems incapable of it. When mum arrives he throws himself on floor and grizzles even if he has been happy playing and she has seen it when she arrives! Yesterday after the previous days pick go when he kicked mum and whinged I talked to him before she came and said 'when mummy comes be nice, give her a hug and tell her you missed her and tell her about all the fun we hAd
Today, no kicking mum!' He understands cos he immediately started recounting to me what we had done that morning! (Mindees are
Both 2, He is 2.5 but was prem)

Anyway the problem really is that both mums arrive together and have a chat, and the little girls big sister comes in and wants to chat to me and my girls as I used to mind her, and it's chaos and the boys mum ignores his behaviour. Girls mum very patient but her little girl gets hurt and I don't want her to think I allow that!! Yesterday so after my chat with him, they all arrived and girls big
Sis is excitedly telling me about her school your that day, and I hear little girls mum say 'ah no don't do that' and he is repeatedly shoving little girl (I Should Say there was an accident a few months back where he did that and she did fall and bump her head!) so I took his hand and pulled him over to me (before mum could react as I knew it wouldn't be serious enough and I had had it!) and said 'now we have talked about this, no pushing it's not nice' in a stern voice like I usually would. He immediately started to whinge and mum picked him up and cuddled
Him (sometimes she kisses him when she is giving out to him!! ) and said come on we are going to Tesco!

I distracted him and said tell mum about x , and he was ok, but she had said 'say sorry to y' but didn't follow it through.. Grr so soft!

Anyway sorry for rant but I want to ask them to pick up seperately , wait in car Til other one out as it's too crazy and they let the kids run around my car together and boys mum doesn't watch he doesn't go out on road (likes to chat!) and I am really worried there will be an accident

I am worried though she might think I was too rough with him last night (I wasn't but don't know how it looked!) he doesn't listen to her or me when she is here and I felt like i should step in and stop it as am at end of tether now so removed him from situation (if mum had said stop and not moved him he would have carried on!)

So how to handle it?!

[ziggy]

Do they collect at same time each day? Personally I would have them ready with bags at door and just explain for the safety of all children this is better for everyone.

If this isnt possible then i would have mum in for a chat

[smurfette]

Do they collect at same time each day? Personally I would have them ready with bags at door and just explain for the safety of all children this is better for everyone. If this isnt possible then i would have mum in for a chat

Yes always the same time! I don't really want to lose the personal touch where they come in and have a chat but also big sis always runs past me into the house to see my girls

[Mouse]

First of all, have confidence in yourself. You are doing the right thing for everyone involved, so try hard not to worry about what mum might be thinking, were you too harsh etc. You were the one who took control and did what you needed to do.

When I've had to change routine at drop off or home time, I always word it as being in the best interests of the children.

I would send a letter to all parents saying that while the children behave so well for you in the day time, you understand that home time is a difficult time for some of them as they are excited about seeing mum and sometimes forget the rules. Add that this is very common with young children and is something you would like to help them work on.
Therefore you are going to bring in a change of routine at home time to see if this is better for the children. Personally, I would switch to handing over at the door. Tell parents that you will bring the children to them at the door and that they can help their child by taking them straight to the car with as little fuss as possible. If you're still happy for parents to come in, tell them that you are going to start staggered collection times as you feel this will work best for them and their child (although what if one comes earlier or later than expected, what if they still end up arriving together - that's why I would go for hand over at the door). Whatever you decide to do, make sure you TELL parents that you will be doing this, don't ask them if you can do it. I always add that I am going to try this for a trial period and will evaluate it after 4 weeks... after which time I send another letter thanking parents for their support and saying I've decided it works so well (for the children) that we will stick with it :thumbsup:

[AliceK]

Don't feel bad about telling him off. I used to sit back and watch children who have mostly been little angels for me all day turn into little monsters the minute their parent arrives and start to behave in a way which they KNOW I don't allow. It stressed me out so much I decided enough was enough so now I remember that this is MY home and MY rules until they leave my premises. I will get stern with the children if needed which is usually at least once or twice per week. I remind them in front of their parents that they are still in my house and my rules still apply whether or not mummy / daddy is here. It does drive me mad though and sometimes once they have gone I think ooops was I a bit harsh? but then if I am then tough. I will not have bad behaviour going on in my house. I have one mindee who is so sweet and never causes me any problems and yet every night this mindee has melt down for mum / dad. Even my DS can't believe she is capable of this behaviour.
I think in your case you are going to have to be very strict with this LO and if neccs physically prevent him from going anywhere near the other child and loudly explain to him and mum why you are doing it. Mum needs to get a grip and if she can't then perhaps the threat of termination due to keeping other children safe might do the trick but whilst he is on your premises you must take charge of the situation as clearly the parent isn't :angry:

xxx

[caz3007]

Had a problem with a two year old at collection, it was stressing both mum and I, so thought about way forward and text mum that we were going to do it a different way for a couple of weeks and break the habit. It worked, less stressed mummy and cm and better behaved lo

[bunyip]

I hate pick-ups. Even when staggered, I know have a period of trouble, tantrums and gritting my teeth ahead of me at the end of every day. There's a whole post-grad thesis in there for any budding psychologist to feed upon.

Children are excited to see their mum, yet at the same time trying to teach her a lesson for daring to forsake them for a day at work, and show us what they can get away with, exploiting the potential discipline/control void that exists when parent and CM are both present.

Parents are pleased to see lo, confused as to why they're kicking off, and nervously trying to exercise their sort of behaviour management in someone else's home.

We are desperate to get them out the door; trying to share information; wishing mum could see lo really has had a good day, and doesn't kick off like this any other time; and wanting to enforce 'my home, my rules' but at the same time, knowing the parent is there, so the parent has to take responsibility.

"Minefield" doesn't even begin to describe it. :p

I agree with other members about trying to stagger the pick-ups. But how do you tell a mum they'll have to wait to collect their darling lo when they just want to see their child and get on with a possibly busy evening routine? (never mind the issue of another 15 minutes on the bill?) :huh: Also clarify the situation: parent must take responsibility as soon as they are present, but has to follow your rules. Very tricky. I've had this both ways round: the mums who are too 'soft' (for want of a better word) and do nothing to stop the behaviour, right through to those I've had to warn not to shout or threaten with smacks. :panic:

The one thing I'd add is a reminder of EYFS 3.51. IIUC you had to physically restrain the child in order to prevent further assault on the girl. I refer to your OP:
"..........so I took his hand and pulled him over to me...............I am worried though she might think I was too rough with him last night (I wasn't but don't know how it looked!) he doesn't listen to her or me when she is here and I felt like i should step in and stop it as am at end of tether now so removed him from situation (if mum had said stop and not moved him he would have carried on!)" This will require an incident form for use of physical intervention. This is exactly what the regulation is there for and, done correctly, will protect you from allegation. Failure to do it may leave you stranded up the Rio Excreta sans paddle. Complete it in a factual, unemotional way (tip: some people find it better to write it in the 3rd person, using "the childminder did this/that/the other...." rather than "I did....."). It is important to state that you did this to prevent further hurt to the child he was shoving, not anything to do with how close you were to the end of your tether. Refer to the earlier incident (when the girl fell and bumped her head) only if you already have an incident form for that one. I don't think I'd say that I thought the mum would do nothing - perhaps say you were better placed than mum to intervene?

[smurfette]

Thanks all helps to know I am not alone..
Bunyip I will have to have a look at our rules here in Ireland which are largely non existent! I dosnt mean to imply I lost my temper I didn't I just mean I knew nothing would be done and I was
fed up with that. I was perfectly calm. Will definitely write an account up in my diary in case of comeback hadn't thought of that so thanks

I am off on hols end next week so unsure whether To introduce a new rule before I go or come back to it after I am back in case it needs clarification or parents are upset with new status quo!

Little
Girl is off sick today so thankfully won't have to deal with it all again tonight!

[bunyip]

Thanks all helps to know I am not alone..
Bunyip I will have to have a look at our rules here in Ireland which are largely non existent! I dosnt mean to imply I lost my temper I didn't I just mean I knew nothing would be done and I was
fed up with that. I was perfectly calm. Will definitely write an account up in my diary in case of comeback hadn't thought of that so thanks

I am off on hols end next week so unsure whether To introduce a new rule before I go or come back to it after I am back in case it needs clarification or parents are upset with new status quo!

Little
Girl is off sick today so thankfully won't have to deal with it all again tonight!

Sorry :doh: - Bunyip-the-Thicko didn't notice your Ireland location. Still, it wouldn't go amiss to record the incident so you have a response if mum turns unpleasant at some point down the line.

Didn't mean to imply you'd lost it. I've felt exactly the same when I know a mum won't take appropriate action. One of the things that still shocks (though no longer surprises) me is how content some parents are for their little darlings to set about some other poor innocent. I recall the mum of a boy I had (briefly - and I'm eternally grateful that it didn't work out) commenting that she felt I treated my grandchildren differently to her little angel. I pointed out that there was quite an age-gap, so he couldn't always take part in things that weren't safe or age-appropriate. She said, "well I meant you taking the swingball off him yesterday." I nearly fell over. What i took off him was the swingball pole, which he had pulled out of the lawn and actually bent :eek: by whacking it repeatedly against a pushchair which contained another mum's baby :panic:. To which her reply was, "I'm sure he was only playing." :mad:

[smurfette]

Oh my gosh bunyip that does take the biscuit.. Sorry did you notice my name change too?!!!

[bunyip]

Oh my gosh bunyip that does take the biscuit.. Sorry did you notice my name change too?!!!

Name change? Name change? What name change????

OMG, you're not my wife..............are you? :panic:

[smurfette]

[QUOTE="bunyip;1367965"] Name change? Name change? What name change???? OMG, you're not my wife..............are you? :panic:[/QUOTE
Ah bunyip it's not that different than my old one!

[smurfette]

And come on my pic
Is the same
Lol!

[Mouse]

Name change? Name change? What name change????

OMG, you're not my wife..............are you? :panic:

:ROFL1::ROFL1:


I thought I recognised the picture, but not the name!

[Mouse]

Thanks all helps to know I am not alone..
Bunyip I will have to have a look at our rules here in Ireland which are largely non existent! I dosnt mean to imply I lost my temper I didn't I just mean I knew nothing would be done and I was
fed up with that. I was perfectly calm. Will definitely write an account up in my diary in case of comeback hadn't thought of that so thanks

I am off on hols end next week so unsure whether To introduce a new rule before I go or come back to it after I am back in case it needs clarification or parents are upset with new status quo!

Little
Girl is off sick today so thankfully won't have to deal with it all again tonight!

I would start it from after your holidays. Again, big it up as a good time to introduce something new for the children. Send a letter now saying you're starting it from the day you get back from hols, then remind them at drop off on the first day that you have the routine in place.
The last parent I tried it with said they didn't think they were quite ready for doorstop drop offs & collections (they actually come into the hall), but I told her her son was more than ready and what a wonderful thing it was going to be for him :thumbsup:

[Maza]

When you feel bad about I just imagine how much WORSE you would have felt if you hadn't intervened and the little girl got seriously hurt. I had to be very firm with a LO in front of his mum the other day and felt a 'bit' bad about it but I would have been so angry with myself if I hadn't have done so.

I had to recently send out a letter about pick ups. One family were bloomin' ridiculous and I had put up with it for too long. Things did improve after the letter. You say that you don't mind a chat at the end of the day and for the big sister to chat to you and your girls BUT you can't have it both ways - either you carry on as you are or you knock the chats on the head. I'm sure the two year old girl would rather you knock the chats on the head and then she can go home without being hurt first. The parents will probably start to enjoy getting home 10/15 minutes earlier anyway. I'm not sure how staggered pick ups would work practically. It sounds like you have decided 'enough's enough', so good luck, be strong and have faith in yourself and your decisions. Let us know how you get on. x

[bunyip]

[QUOTE="bunyip;1367965"] Name change? Name change? What name change???? OMG, you're not my wife..............are you? :panic:[/QUOTE
Ah bunyip it's not that different than my old one!

...........and, of course, you're still just as lovely. :D

[smurfette]

Thanks all I feel better now I did right thing.. Mum was grand with me this am but same mum I had run in over the vomiting exclusion last week so but nervous.. Off on hols next week and last time we were Away I got email notice from an unexpected mindee so fingers crossed!!

Glad u all know who I am.
Was on course last week and recommended this crazy place to people so thought I would get a bit of anonymity ! Might still be too obvious though!!

[tess1981]

I have a lo 3 who is so good with me it's unnatural lol at home the lo swears hits tantrums you name it.... when mum collects she runs round the car in and out of car seat locking doors opening them this goes on for about 10 mins I watch on or make my excuses need to see to other children. She even swears at mum in front of me but she in car and thinks I can't hear it. Anyway the other day she started running around car and headed to my garden out the front which is off limits her mum told her to get back and she ignored her so I said let me. . I raised my voice and said X you do not go in there now get back to your car now!!! She turned on her heels and went to the car... her mum stood mouth opened I said I don't do nonsense and she knows it lol

[hectors house]

so I have been having an ongoing problem at pick up the last few months.. Two of the little ones I mind are best buddies and get on great all day but at pick up the little boy turns into a monster and attacks the little girl.. He throws tantrums for mum and kicks her on the way down the driveway , behaviour I never see! He pushes the little girl or hits her and his mum is very soft, says ah no don't do that, we are going to do x (usually something nice!) and I get fed up with her not disciplining him , she also encourages him to hug her before he leaves but he doesn't he pushes or slaps her, seems incapable of it. When mum arrives he throws himself on floor and grizzles even if he has been happy playing and she has seen it when she arrives! Yesterday after the previous days pick go when he kicked mum and whinged I talked to him before she came and said 'when mummy comes be nice, give her a hug and tell her you missed her and tell her about all the fun we hAd
Today, no kicking mum!' He understands cos he immediately started recounting to me what we had done that morning! (Mindees are
Both 2, He is 2.5 but was prem)

Anyway the problem really is that both mums arrive together and have a chat, and the little girls big sister comes in and wants to chat to me and my girls as I used to mind her, and it's chaos and the boys mum ignores his behaviour. Girls mum very patient but her little girl gets hurt and I don't want her to think I allow that!! Yesterday so after my chat with him, they all arrived and girls big
Sis is excitedly telling me about her school your that day, and I hear little girls mum say 'ah no don't do that' and he is repeatedly shoving little girl (I Should Say there was an accident a few months back where he did that and she did fall and bump her head!) so I took his hand and pulled him over to me (before mum could react as I knew it wouldn't be serious enough and I had had it!) and said 'now we have talked about this, no pushing it's not nice' in a stern voice like I usually would. He immediately started to whinge and mum picked him up and cuddled
Him (sometimes she kisses him when she is giving out to him!! ) and said come on we are going to Tesco!

I distracted him and said tell mum about x , and he was ok, but she had said 'say sorry to y' but didn't follow it through.. Grr so soft!

Anyway sorry for rant but I want to ask them to pick up seperately , wait in car Til other one out as it's too crazy and they let the kids run around my car together and boys mum doesn't watch he doesn't go out on road (likes to chat!) and I am really worried there will be an accident

I am worried though she might think I was too rough with him last night (I wasn't but don't know how it looked!) he doesn't listen to her or me when she is here and I felt like i should step in and stop it as am at end of tether now so removed him from situation (if mum had said stop and not moved him he would have carried on!)

So how to handle it?!

I would have to ask the parents to come in separately maybe explain that it's for confidentiality reasons and also for the safety of the children.

I thought I must have posted this and then forgotten about it - I also have a 3 year old who is fine before mum and big sister (who I also minded) comes but then he turns into something out of a Kevin & Perry sketch, becomes aggressive and shouts at everyone especially his mum. He acted up yesterday when his gran came with his sister to collect him (he is normally better when she collects) but he was messing around and refusing to put his shoes on, so I'm afraid I overuled his gran, told him to sit down and put his shoes on, he refused, so I sat him on the step and put his shoes on with him shouting and crying but I wasn't going to let him get away with leaving with no shoes.