Clocking in and out

[rsowter]

Hi all just wondered if any of you use an actual clocking in and out machine for parents in order to confirm/charge what time they drop off and collect x

[wee_elf]

Just a thought but could you get the parent to sign their child in and they have to record the time alongside the child's name, and then the parent really cant argue early drop offs/late pick ups? x

[bunyip]

No, but I've considered tattooing each child with a barcode, so I can scan them at the door. :D

[Koala]

Yes - I used to have all parents sign their child in and out with the time not a clocking machine though :
Upside
It proved they attended and gave me a record of times just in case. In case of what i'm not sure but anyway that's what I did - I charge a daily rate between 8am and 5.30pm so it wasn't needed for calculating their charges it was just for my records.

I had it all on one sheet so parents could see who arrived and at what time. Some parents arrive earlier and some leave later than my daily rate hours subject to agreement on both sides and charged accordingly.

Downside
parents saw that children came earlier than them and were picked up later than them - some parents felt they were loosing out and started coming earlier and earlier and picking up later and later to their scheduled time - this off course pee'd me off and it had to be addressed as other children starting earlier - picking up late were of course paying accordingly or we had agreed different hours. A problem that I could have avoided if I didn't have a signing in sheet.
Also I could see that some parents were mentally calculating how much money I was making, I work with an assistant so quite often had 6 - 8 children - and snide comments were made about how I was raking it in etc... etc... you get the gist but this also, i beleive, lead to parents not paying me on time out of resentment because of course they thought that all the money I earned was for me and I didn't have expenses etc... etc... again, you get the gist.

So, in conclusion, I stopped doing a signing in sheet and just made mental notes on my register of people taking the mick, but it doesn't really bother me 10/15 mins at either end of the day but it used to when it was on the signing in sheet. Parents mind their own business instead of mine and Payments are received on time without any snide comments about how much money I was making.

A signing in sheet is a good thing to do - but be mindful of the above - if I were to do this again I would have a signing in sheet separate for each child, and their contracted times stated on the top in NEON :D but this can be hectic if you have lots of children.

[watford wizz]

Loving the bar code idea could we also get them chipped with important info in case lost and found ?

[chriss]

No need is there ? I just charge for contracted hours, so if they collect early or drop off late, fee is as in their contracted hours. Also its enough to get kids out of the door without too much fuss, never mind parents signing them in n out lol.

I just log the childrens in and out times in the register, parents dont sign anything.

[rickysmiths]

Yes - I used to have all parents sign their child in and out with the time not a clocking machine though :
Upside
It proved they attended and gave me a record of times just in case. In case of what i'm not sure but anyway that's what I did - I charge a daily rate between 8am and 5.30pm so it wasn't needed for calculating their charges it was just for my records.

I had it all on one sheet so parents could see who arrived and at what time. Some parents arrive earlier and some leave later than my daily rate hours subject to agreement on both sides and charged accordingly.

Downside
parents saw that children came earlier than them and were picked up later than them - some parents felt they were loosing out and started coming earlier and earlier and picking up later and later to their scheduled time - this off course pee'd me off and it had to be addressed as other children starting earlier - picking up late were of course paying accordingly or we had agreed different hours. A problem that I could have avoided if I didn't have a signing in sheet.
Also I could see that some parents were mentally calculating how much money I was making, I work with an assistant so quite often had 6 - 8 children - and snide comments were made about how I was raking it in etc... etc... you get the gist but this also, i beleive, lead to parents not paying me on time out of resentment because of course they thought that all the money I earned was for me and I didn't have expenses etc... etc... again, you get the gist.

So, in conclusion, I stopped doing a signing in sheet and just made mental notes on my register of people taking the mick, but it doesn't really bother me 10/15 mins at either end of the day but it used to when it was on the signing in sheet. Parents mind their own business instead of mine and Payments are received on time without any snide comments about how much money I was making.

A signing in sheet is a good thing to do - but be mindful of the above - if I were to do this again I would have a signing in sheet separate for each child, and their contracted times stated on the top in NEON :D but this can be hectic if you have lots of children.

This is why each child has a page of the register to themselves to preserve confidentiality when the parents sign each week. I can't imagine just having a page with all the children on.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

This is why each child has a page of the register to themselves to preserve confidentiality when the parents sign each week. I can't imagine just having a page with all the children on.

Whereas I have all my children on one sheet and the parents don't see it because I sign them in and out

[Koala]

This is why each child has a page of the register to themselves to preserve confidentiality when the parents sign each week. I can't imagine just having a page with all the children on.

It depends how you work - there is no break in confidentiality each parent knowing who attends with their child each day in fact it is good practice to share this - it was much simpler for me having one sheet per week for all to sign on - instead of juggling 13 different sheets throughout the week and 6 - 8 sheets daily for parents to sign in and out daily for their child - time and space allowing it would be a good idea but practically a nightmare. I do the register now :thumbsup: .

"bar code'' a great idea with self scanning monitors at the door and sage processed invoicing all automatically done would be fantastic.

[funemnx]

I have all mine micro-chipped at the local RSPCA - that way no need so sign in - another plus is I never lose one! :laughing::ROFL1::laughing:

[watford wizz]

And if the escape the house garden an alarm sounds x

[rsowter]

Lol you lot are so funny

[bunyip]

I use a page-to-a-week register, and al parents can see whose attended. I see this as openness. It's not confidential, and since I mark my grandchildren's attendance and Mrs B's (as assistant) including sole care provided by her, anyone can see I'm not overminding.

Tbh, I doubt if many of my clients check: most appear to sign it without looking. I could put down that I'd had their lo's for 48 hours a day and been on a time-travel to the Bronze Age and they'd still sign it.

If parents are making those sort of comments about "raking it in", etc. - put a line in your register just above where they sign to say "I hereby agree this is a true and accurate record of my child's attendance at 'Little Monsters Childminding Ltd.' I further agree never to moan or make any negative comments about the childcare service or the wonderful angel who provides it whilst I rake it in drinking coffee at my office desk." :D

[Simona]

I have never seen a requirement for parents to sign in and out
I have never seen a requirement to have an individual record of attendance for each child
A register should include all children...CMs can tick in and out and record times of arrival and departure...this will show at a quick glance those who arrive early or pick up late if you need to monitor this and charge accordingly
It will also help to monitor attendance for funded children especially in LAs where non attendance means you pay the funding back to them

In case of a fire or evacuation usually a register is taken to call all children and ensure all are safe and none left inside not individual sheets?
A register could also have all contact numbers at the back so parents/other contacts can be called for emergency pick up

Schools and other providers do not ask for signatures nor have individual attendance sheets, they are trusted to record attendance in a professional way...is there anywhere in the EYFS that asks us to do this additional paperwork?

Why should parents ask to see our register ?
not sure about the element of confidentiality as parents in a cm setting will know each other...has anyone ever been asked to see the register if so why?

My view of course and if the requirements have changed please point me to the right direction

[rickysmiths]

I have to disagree with a page a week for all the children and the parents signing and seeing all the other children's details.


It is none of the other parents business what hours/days the other children in my care do and I regard the minute detail of it confidential to that family especially with regard to holiday and sickness. How would you feel if your boss shared your holiday dates with all his other employees?

It is also useful as I found out when a malicious complaint was made because I was able to copy the particular child's register page and disprove what the mother had said. Had All the children's info been on the page I could not have used it. Believe me it was worth all the 19 years of getting parents to sign the register (if it hadn't been signed by the parent it could not have been used).

So for those of you using multiple children to a page and not getting it signed each week I urge you to think again. It is part of Safeguarding Yourself from allegations even though it is not a requirement for EYFS.


Simona I use the Pacey Attendance Register which has all the children's information and Emergency Contacts in. With regard to checking off that you have got all the children out in an emergency well I know exactly how many are in my home in any one day. I am not a school who many have over 1000 students who may be in many different places and the staff do not know where they all are in the building! Also ALL students present at the beginning of the morning and afternoon sessions are signed in. Visitors to the school are signed in and out at Reception. Bigger institution than my home.

[line6]

At my setting I use Pacey register to record arrival and departure times but don't get it signed by parents. As a parent I sign my child into and out of their preschool setting with the time. This is a sheet of names and other signatures. It has never crossed my mind to look or care about who else is coming and going at what time so I think any parent taking a register, signed or not, and thinking that gives them the right to comment on earnings, is the one with the problem. The parent that is not the setting or whatever kind of paperwork they choose to use.

[rickysmiths]

At my setting I use Pacey register to record arrival and departure times but don't get it signed by parents. As a parent I sign my child into and out of their preschool setting with the time. This is a sheet of names and other signatures. It has never crossed my mind to look or care about who else is coming and going at what time so I think any parent taking a register, signed or not, and thinking that gives them the right to comment on earnings, is the one with the problem. The parent that is not the setting or whatever kind of paperwork they choose to use.

I would stongly advise you to get the parents to sign the Register from a Safeguarding Piont of view because by signing it they are confirming that you have informed them and that they agree with what is written.

It certainly tipped the balance with the Complaint that was made against me because one of the things the parent claimed was I was late for a child at school and i didn't tell them. Because she had signed the register it showed I wasn't late for school and that she had been told because she had signed for the week.

[k1rstie]

Whereas I have all my children on one sheet and the parents don't see it because I sign them in and out

I do the same.

[line6]

I would stongly advise you to get the parents to sign the Register from a Safeguarding Piont of view because by signing it they are confirming that you have informed them and that they agree with what is written. It certainly tipped the balance with the Complaint that was made against me because one of the things the parent claimed was I was late for a child at school and i didn't tell them. Because she had signed the register it showed I wasn't late for school and that she had been told because she had signed for the week.

Good point. Thanks

[Simona]

I have to disagree with a page a week for all the children and the parents signing and seeing all the other children's details.


It is none of the other parents business what hours/days the other children in my care do and I regard the minute detail of it confidential to that family especially with regard to holiday and sickness. How would you feel if your boss shared your holiday dates with all his other employees?

It is also useful as I found out when a malicious complaint was made because I was able to copy the particular child's register page and disprove what the mother had said. Had All the children's info been on the page I could not have used it. Believe me it was worth all the 19 years of getting parents to sign the register (if it hadn't been signed by the parent it could not have been used).

So for those of you using multiple children to a page and not getting it signed each week I urge you to think again. It is part of Safeguarding Yourself from allegations even though it is not a requirement for EYFS.


Simona I use the Pacey Attendance Register which has all the children's information and Emergency Contacts in. With regard to checking off that you have got all the children out in an emergency well I know exactly how many are in my home in any one day. I am not a school who many have over 1000 students who may be in many different places and the staff do not know where they all are in the building! Also ALL students present at the beginning of the morning and afternoon sessions are signed in. Visitors to the school are signed in and out at Reception. Bigger institution than my home.

I appreciate that the pacey paperwork 'works for you' but many cms are not pacey members and use different formats
A school will not have a register for 1,000 students....each teacher will have a register for her own class I assume?....so 30 children... in a real evacuation the teacher will have to ensure all her charges are safe and none lost in the building

When it comes to a complaint any paperwork required by Ofsted to investigate will show all children's names and Ofsted will be liable to keep that info confidential
For cms who work with other cms the numbers may be more than 3 so they would need to know exactly who is there and all safely evacuated?

We need to use our skills and have paperwork that works for each of us and we can evidence how it is put to good practice...that is what being 'independent' is all about...no?

[Bluebell]

I use a sheet with all the children on - a weekly page. The contracted times are already written in but I amend if there is a difference. I don't get the parents to sign it but I'm meticulous in writing times down, noting where we went, what we did, any incidents. I write down any visitors, assistants and if my children have friends over I have them written in too.


I used to clock parents in and out with my mobile phone - it was on a client time tracker type thing. you could have multiple clients at one time running. it was like a stop watch you start and you finish as parents leave. you just cliecked on the name of the child to start and stop. never had to write anything down and could print it off at end of week. it also then calculated your fees as you could put in the hourly rate. However as I charge for contracted hours even if they don't attend or go early this became problematical.
It was quite good to make a point of saying to parent - oh hang on a minute I'm just going to clock x in so they knew there was an accurate record of their arrival. I also used to make a point of doing it as they left the premises if they arrived on time but took 15 minutes to leave lol!!! I stopped using it cos it didn't save any time - its just as easy to have a pre-printed sheet and tick a child has arrived at the time they are supposed to and write an amendment if it is different.

i think in this day and age that it probably is good practice to get parents to sign a sheet in case of later query but I just can't bring myself to do it as I feel its yet another paper signing exercise.



I would stongly advise you to get the parents to sign the Register from a Safeguarding Piont of view because by signing it they are confirming that you have informed them and that they agree with what is written.

It certainly tipped the balance with the Complaint that was made against me because one of the things the parent claimed was I was late for a child at school and i didn't tell them. Because she had signed the register it showed I wasn't late for school and that she had been told because she had signed for the week.


Sorry I'm probably being silly but basically they are signing to agree with what you have told them? If say you were late for school pickup and then they arrived to pick up and you said oh yes i picked them up on time then parent will sign whatever you say because there is an element of trust - especially as you have care of their child. If the next day someone says wow your childminder was half an hour late picking up your child and your child was in a right state - crying and worried. then regardless of what was signed they would be concerned. Surely the school and any other parents would outrank a signature if this was what had actually occurred. I'm not for a second suggesting that this is what happened but just that the parent is only signing on your say so?
As Bunyip says most parents will sign whatever you ask them - I've spoken to parents about excepetions before and asked them to sign. They are never interested in me talking them through the considerations i've made or the EYFS rules - they just say 'we trust you bluebell' and don't even read my carefully printed out sheet.

[bunyip]

I can see how a signature might be useful - certainly in terms of safeguarding/complaints - and I can see how it might not. For one thing, I've seen enough managers falsifying 'due diligence' records in previous jobs, such that I hardly ever trust any signature I see any longer. I honestly can't see how it would do any harm to get a signature, but I agree with Bluebell that few people read anything they sign (and if you want proof, remember that 1000's of people signed away their immortal souls to GameStation via their Ts&Cs not so very long ago. :rolleyes: )

I'm not a fan of much of pacey's paperwork. The register was one of the things I didn't replace after I'd used up the one in their starter pack. I took the starter pack to be just that: enough basic stuff thrown together quickly to get my CM ball rolling until I could figure out what my paperwork should look like for my business. Personal opinion, but I'd rather design one that actually suits the needs of my setting, then go to the pub and drink my way through the £10+* (£20+* for non-members :eek:) which would otherwise have been leeched out of my account by the custodians of the pacey shop. Perhaps it serves as an aid to over-minding (which may explain its popularity amongst my local CMing Mafia), as any inspector possessing the patience, dedication and mental arithmetic skills to plough through a page per child to check the numbers present at any given time over a four-year cycle deserves, well.... to be in a better job than an Ofsted inspector. :p

I'm not 100% decided whether or not it's the parents' business to know which other children theirs have been playing with. Though I have to say, my mum usually knew with whom I'd been playing (ie. "getting up to no good".) Admittedly, that was back in the days when "community" still had a meaning, and we weren't all constantly watching our backs. But how much of a matter of "confidentiality" or "not their business" can it be to know which children have attended? Worried now: are we going to have to lock the other mindees away in silence whilst each is collected, or will it be sufficient just to throw a sheet over them until mum number 1 has removed their lo from the premises? Flippancy aside, come on, it's surely no great secret. Most the neighbours know who's here most the time: partly cos everyone knows everyone in a village, and partly cos I'm having to tell them off all the time ("Billy - put that cat down! Susie - stop ripping the wing mirror off that parked car and get your ar5e in the pushchair..." and so on. :p )

Probably one of those areas where we each have to do whatever works best for each of us, and agree to disagree over the differences. Still helpful to hear what everyone else does, though.



*Allowing for postage and package charges.

[Simona]

I can see how a signature might be useful - certainly in terms of safeguarding/complaints - and I can see how it might not. For one thing, I've seen enough managers falsifying 'due diligence' records in previous jobs, such that I hardly ever trust any signature I see any longer. I honestly can't see how it would do any harm to get a signature, but I agree with Bluebell that few people read anything they sign (and if you want proof, remember that 1000's of people signed away their immortal souls to GameStation via their Ts&Cs not so very long ago. :rolleyes: )

I'm not a fan of much of pacey's paperwork. The register was one of the things I didn't replace after I'd used up the one in their starter pack. I took the starter pack to be just that: enough basic stuff thrown together quickly to get my CM ball rolling until I could figure out what my paperwork should look like for my business. Personal opinion, but I'd rather design one that actually suits the needs of my setting, then go to the pub and drink my way through the £10+* (£20+* for non-members :eek:) which would otherwise have been leeched out of my account by the custodians of the pacey shop. Perhaps it serves as an aid to over-minding (which may explain its popularity amongst my local CMing Mafia), as any inspector possessing the patience, dedication and mental arithmetic skills to plough through a page per child to check the numbers present at any given time over a four-year cycle deserves, well.... to be in a better job than an Ofsted inspector. :p

I'm not 100% decided whether or not it's the parents' business to know which other children theirs have been playing with. Though I have to say, my mum usually knew with whom I'd been playing (ie. "getting up to no good".) Admittedly, that was back in the days when "community" still had a meaning, and we weren't all constantly watching our backs. But how much of a matter of "confidentiality" or "not their business" can it be to know which children have attended? Worried now: are we going to have to lock the other mindees away in silence whilst each is collected, or will it be sufficient just to throw a sheet over them until mum number 1 has removed their lo from the premises? Flippancy aside, come on, it's surely no great secret. Most the neighbours know who's here most the time: partly cos everyone knows everyone in a village, and partly cos I'm having to tell them off all the time ("Billy - put that cat down! Susie - stop ripping the wing mirror off that parked car and get your ar5e in the pushchair..." and so on. :p )

Probably one of those areas where we each have to do whatever works best for each of us, and agree to disagree over the differences. Still helpful to hear what everyone else does, though.



*Allowing for postage and package charges.

maybe CMs could devise a simple 'attendance list' which can be pinned on the wall or kept at hand should the parents want to see who attends which day or plays with their children?

It would not require much work and could have morning, afternoon, all day attendance, wraparound care, holiday care and easily updated as children come and go
My simple one also allows me to work sessional care and identify vacancies available ...just an idea and, as it is on my computer, also easily accessible when it needs updating....saving £10 for a couple of bottles of Merlot!

[samb]

I have a monthly sheet per child. I write time in and out. Parents sign at end of each month. This is for safeguarding reasons.

I have a visitors book where I sign visitors time in and out- also safeguarding.

I then have a self registration system for the children. I have a sheet of photos for children that are coming another day, a car shaped sheet for children due to come that day and a house shaped sheet for children at my house. When they come in they move their picture from car to house and when they leave they move it up to coming another day or back to car if they are coming later (if going to school for example). Obviously all parents see that - it's in my hall. I made it to help my main child who was almost full time to know who was coming and going as she was getting confused when people left and weren't coming back and random ad hoc children etc. now all the children seem to like it as they can see which friends will be there easily.

[samb]

Oh and I have a calendar on my phone with contracted children and extra hours booked ad I take my phone out to do register for evacuation purposes and then write up after the evacuation. Think that's all my registers?!

[rickysmiths]

I can see how a signature might be useful - certainly in terms of safeguarding/complaints - and I can see how it might not. For one thing, I've seen enough managers falsifying 'due diligence' records in previous jobs, such that I hardly ever trust any signature I see any longer. I honestly can't see how it would do any harm to get a signature, but I agree with Bluebell that few people read anything they sign (and if you want proof, remember that 1000's of people signed away their immortal souls to GameStation via their Ts&Cs not so very long ago. :rolleyes: )

I'm not a fan of much of pacey's paperwork. The register was one of the things I didn't replace after I'd used up the one in their starter pack. I took the starter pack to be just that: enough basic stuff thrown together quickly to get my CM ball rolling until I could figure out what my paperwork should look like for my business. Personal opinion, but I'd rather design one that actually suits the needs of my setting, then go to the pub and drink my way through the £10+* (£20+* for non-members :eek:) which would otherwise have been leeched out of my account by the custodians of the pacey shop. Perhaps it serves as an aid to over-minding (which may explain its popularity amongst my local CMing Mafia), as any inspector possessing the patience, dedication and mental arithmetic skills to plough through a page per child to check the numbers present at any given time over a four-year cycle deserves, well.... to be in a better job than an Ofsted inspector. :p

I'm not 100% decided whether or not it's the parents' business to know which other children theirs have been playing with. Though I have to say, my mum usually knew with whom I'd been playing (ie. "getting up to no good".) Admittedly, that was back in the days when "community" still had a meaning, and we weren't all constantly watching our backs. But how much of a matter of "confidentiality" or "not their business" can it be to know which children have attended? Worried now: are we going to have to lock the other mindees away in silence whilst each is collected, or will it be sufficient just to throw a sheet over them until mum number 1 has removed their lo from the premises? Flippancy aside, come on, it's surely no great secret. Most the neighbours know who's here most the time: partly cos everyone knows everyone in a village, and partly cos I'm having to tell them off all the time ("Billy - put that cat down! Susie - stop ripping the wing mirror off that parked car and get your ar5e in the pushchair..." and so on. :p )

Probably one of those areas where we each have to do whatever works best for each of us, and agree to disagree over the differences. Still helpful to hear what everyone else does, though.



*Allowing for postage and package charges.

I'm sorry but in this instance I think your remarks are silly and childish and I will leave it at that.

[rickysmiths]

I have a monthly sheet per child. I write time in and out. Parents sign at end of each month. This is for safeguarding reasons.

I have a visitors book where I sign visitors time in and out- also safeguarding.

I then have a self registration system for the children. I have a sheet of photos for children that are coming another day, a car shaped sheet for children due to come that day and a house shaped sheet for children at my house. When they come in they move their picture from car to house and when they leave they move it up to coming another day or back to car if they are coming later (if going to school for example). Obviously all parents see that - it's in my hall. I made it to help my main child who was almost full time to know who was coming and going as she was getting confused when people left and weren't coming back and random ad hoc children etc. now all the children seem to like it as they can see which friends will be there easily.

I also do a self registration for child who are old enough.

Some of you seem to be getting your knickers in a twist because I mentioned that word Confidentiality. Of course my parents and children are fully aware of the children who are with me each day and I would not hide that from them. However I mark in my register absences and holidays and though parents will know if a child is not with us I don't always discuss in detail why and nor is it my place to do so. If the parents wish to discuss it with each other then that is their choice.

I do not have and never have had a visitors book. I feel this is a pointless exercise as I know full well who is in my house at any time and if it is not appropriate for them to be in the same room as the children they are not and they are never left alone with anyone other than me or my assistant.

[samb]

I have a terrible memory so if an allegation was made I would need everything written down to help me remember - including visitors. I don't think its a have to thing it's just I want to. I do the individual children's sheets for confidentiality as I also write on the families holiday or child's illness - also to help me remember why they weren't there and again this is confidential to each family.

I do think a signature is a good idea however I can imagine in an allegation situation it wouldn't fully cover you but surely it would more than if the parent hadn't seen it? I did used to get parents to sign in and out but it got complicated when I was meeting parents at school for example as I'd have to take registers out with me and just didn't work so I now fill it all in.

[Koala]

I also do a self registration for child who are old enough.

Some of you seem to be getting your knickers in a twist because I mentioned that word Confidentiality. Of course my parents and children are fully aware of the children who are with me each day and I would not hide that from them. However I mark in my register absences and holidays and though parents will know if a child is not with us I don't always discuss in detail why and nor is it my place to do so. If the parents wish to discuss it with each other then that is their choice.

I do not have and never have had a visitors book. I feel this is a pointless exercise as I know full well who is in my house at any time and if it is not appropriate for them to be in the same room as the children they are not and they are never left alone with anyone other than me or my assistant.

How do you know I wear knickers!! :D I don't think anyone openly discusses why a child attends or not attends - I think it is just not a matter of confidentiality for parents to know - discussing other peoples children is but this is not what is being done. Samb - I love your idea :thumbsup:

Sorry rickysmiths but nobody cares whether you know who is in your house or not - it's a matter of evidencing it - so I would urge you to ALWAYS log any visitors to your property whilst minding. We all know that we know our job better than anyone else but it is always a case of showing this and evidencing it to others. :thumbsup:

[Simona]

I don't think anyone is getting anything twisted in any way...we are all expressing 'our way' of doing things.....but Cms do like to create additional paperwork and conditions for themselves that no other provider would dream of...

If cms have a monthly.... individual ...or collective register of attendance ...it would make no difference if you asked the parents to sign at the end of the month...attendance has to be ticked 'each day' and if CMs think that is required by EYFS 'signed' each day as lots can happen in between

I still have not heard where is the requirement to do such complicated attendance records?? if I followed this forum's suggestions my 'paperwork trail' would start here and finish God knows where.
I have not had my question answered as to why a parent would want to see my register? if they need to know who is in attendance all they have to do is walk into the playroom...

As independent Cms we must do as we interpret the EYFS and see fit for our individual practice...and stay clear of those who make money out of selling their paperwork or ideas to us...ours will do very well
That in the end will be the difference between Independent CMs and Agency CMs

[hectors house]

Although no longer a member of PACEY I still use the attendance registers (a fellow minder buys them on my behalf at the discounted price), I used to just get parents to sign once a month but now I have funded children I am making sure I make these parents sign each week to make sure there is no comeback from the local authority. I can record on the child's page the hours attended and how many were funded and how many the parent needs to pay for - again hoping there won't be any disagreement from the parent - this is the first funded month!

[bunyip]

I don't think anyone is getting anything twisted in any way...we are all expressing 'our way' of doing things.....but Cms do like to create additional paperwork and conditions for themselves that no other provider would dream of...

If cms have a monthly.... individual ...or collective register of attendance ...it would make no difference if you asked the parents to sign at the end of the month...attendance has to be ticked 'each day' and if CMs think that is required by EYFS 'signed' each day as lots can happen in between

I still have not heard where is the requirement to do such complicated attendance records?? if I followed this forum's suggestions my 'paperwork trail' would start here and finish God knows where.
I have not had my question answered as to why a parent would want to see my register? if they need to know who is in attendance all they have to do is walk into the playroom...

As independent Cms we must do as we interpret the EYFS and see fit for our individual practice...and stay clear of those who make money out of selling their paperwork or ideas to us...ours will do very well
That in the end will be the difference between Independent CMs and Agency CMs

An interesting (and good) point. Makes me wonder if agencies producing in-house forms might just provide the sort of competition that would make the pacey shop reconsider their extortionate prices.

It's interesting to read all the different ways people do this.

I'm actually beginning to wonder if the OP's idea of a clocking-in machine might actually be a clean and simple way of doing it after all. :)

[bunyip]

How do you know I wear knickers!! :D

:laughing:

Oh go on, you can't leave it like that and not tell. :D

I can tell you they don't half chafe a bit if you do get them in a twist :eek:

(...... though maybe that only applies to those of us in possession of the soft, dangley bits.) :rolleyes:

[rickysmiths]

How do you know I wear knickers!! :D I don't think anyone openly discusses why a child attends or not attends - I think it is just not a matter of confidentiality for parents to know - discussing other peoples children is but this is not what is being done. Samb - I love your idea :thumbsup:

Sorry rickysmiths but nobody cares whether you know who is in your house or not - it's a matter of evidencing it - so I would urge you to ALWAYS log any visitors to your property whilst minding. We all know that we know our job better than anyone else but it is always a case of showing this and evidencing it to others. :thumbsup:

As long as the children are never alone I usually have a note in my own diary I feel this is sufficient recording. I wouldn't dream of getting friends or anyone else to sign in and out. Who do I have to 'evidence ' it to? Where in EYFS does it say we have to do this? No Ofsted inspector has ever asked me who I have had in my house or when even when investigating a Complaint. I refuse to do unnecessary paperwork that serves no purpose at all.

For example I am having a tree cut down in my garden tomorrow, no children will come in contact with the men doing the job and the men doing the job will have no direct contact with the children at all, the most they might have is the children watching them out of the window with me, this is my mental RA of the situation along with the side gate access so I would ask parents to deliver and collect from my front door for tomorrow and we won't use the garden tomorrow, I have the man's number and address in my diary that he is coming tomorrow at 8.15am my RA is that this is plenty to do. Neither I or the children are at any risk at any time. No written RA no need and we don't have to write it down now so why waste the time?

It seems to me Ofsted and the Government have tried to make things easier for us so why deliberately make them harder? Sorry we will have to agree to disagree on this one I think.

[rickysmiths]

An interesting (and good) point. Makes me wonder if agencies producing in-house forms might just provide the sort of competition that would make the pacey shop reconsider their extortionate prices.

It's interesting to read all the different ways people do this.

I'm actually beginning to wonder if the OP's idea of a clocking-in machine might actually be a clean and simple way of doing it after all. :)

This may be your view but I feel in terms of the cost per child over the income per child the cost is very little indeed and if it saves me time recreating forms and printing them all the time hooray!

[Koala]

As long as the children are never alone I usually have a note in my own diary I feel this is sufficient recording. I wouldn't dream of getting friends or anyone else to sign in and out. Who do I have to 'evidence ' it to? Where in EYFS does it say we have to do this? No Ofsted inspector has ever asked me who I have had in my house or when even when investigating a Complaint. I refuse to do unnecessary paperwork that serves no purpose at all.

For example I am having a tree cut down in my garden tomorrow, no children will come in contact with the men doing the job and the men doing the job will have no direct contact with the children at all, the most they might have is the children watching them out of the window with me, this is my mental RA of the situation along with the side gate access so I would ask parents to deliver and collect from my front door for tomorrow and we won't use the garden tomorrow, I have the man's number and address in my diary that he is coming tomorrow at 8.15am my RA is that this is plenty to do. Neither I or the children are at any risk at any time. No written RA no need and we don't have to write it down now so why waste the time?

It seems to me Ofsted and the Government have tried to make things easier for us so why deliberately make them harder? Sorry we will have to agree to disagree on this one I think.

Yes, I agree to disagree with you reading into what people write not actually reading what they write.

So you do log visitors to the house when minding which is the point being made - I don't think I mentioned that they had to sign in and out but they do need to be recorded as good practice as to whom MAY have had contact with the children - when your eyes were closed or if you lost your memory or were abducted by aliens - you don't have to have a 'visitors book' to record people you invite into your property whilst minding but I am so so so sure it is good practice to record who you do invite to your property when minding. I can't be bothered to comb through the eyfs to highlight this point but I have ALWAYS been under the impression that any visitors to your property whilst minding have to be logged for safeguarding - simple and straightforward.

I hope your tree gets felled well - I am sure the children will love it and I am sure the work men don't injure themselves, need to use your bathroom, telephone or have a cup of tea or any access to your house! This is why we record who they are! RA eventuality. But you already do that - so why argue that it doesn't need doing? or are you saying something else?

I also think pacey forms are very expensive and a bit of a rip off. But like you say each to their own!!

[Simona]

As long as the children are never alone I usually have a note in my own diary I feel this is sufficient recording. I wouldn't dream of getting friends or anyone else to sign in and out. Who do I have to 'evidence ' it to? Where in EYFS does it say we have to do this? No Ofsted inspector has ever asked me who I have had in my house or when even when investigating a Complaint. I refuse to do unnecessary paperwork that serves no purpose at all.

For example I am having a tree cut down in my garden tomorrow, no children will come in contact with the men doing the job and the men doing the job will have no direct contact with the children at all, the most they might have is the children watching them out of the window with me, this is my mental RA of the situation along with the side gate access so I would ask parents to deliver and collect from my front door for tomorrow and we won't use the garden tomorrow, I have the man's number and address in my diary that he is coming tomorrow at 8.15am my RA is that this is plenty to do. Neither I or the children are at any risk at any time. No written RA no need and we don't have to write it down now so why waste the time?

It seems to me Ofsted and the Government have tried to make things easier for us so why deliberately make them harder? Sorry we will have to agree to disagree on this one I think.


Rickysmiths....I agree with your RA for the tree being cut in your garden....simple and recorded in your diary ...no need for any additional paperwork which is exactly what cutting red tape is all about
I would do exactly the same and have done on other occasions.

Again it is your confidence in your interpretation that makes you understand what is required and what is really a waste of paper and time....I think you also show the ability to be willing to discuss with Ofsted any of their judgements which many CMs must try to achieve as well and not panic at the thought!!
It is apparently the weakest point for Cms...our inability to challenge an inspector if we feel their judgement is wrong...for obvious reasons which are very apparent by many comments

I believe you raised that very matter at Ofsted Big Conversation in London...lots of good points were made at that meeting but the forum seemed little interested.... when in fact Ofsted are now 'actively' listening' to those who attend and speak up for others wherever the meetings are

You said that CMs do not speak up enough...I feel some are terrified of inspections...which is clear in the comments in this forum....But it needs not be like that if the support they get is meant to build that very confidence and not disable them ...sorry I deviated


When it comes to paperwork bought from pacey or any other source....for that matter....I have to disagree slightly
If the paperwork suits you then this is fine....I used to have one of those lovely 'tool kits' things with all sorts of booklets and forms that pacey sent me

I used some of the forms over time but found some of them ended up expensive, bulky and not really reflecting my personal needs....so ...like many other CMs I devised my own....simpler and in fact very cheap even when taking account of printing and ink
I think contracts need urgent review in my personal view

Bunyip...pacey paperwork is neither expensive nor cheap...anyone who produces such stationery charges more or less the same
I suppose it depends on your 'financial' pocket...if you can afford them they will seem cheap but do they serve your purpose?

My advise is shop around or try to devise your own...if anyone has their own ask for them to show you...worth investing the time and always available in the computer at the click of a button.