Would you let Mindee go hungry if they refuse to eat? - feeling really bad at moment.

[MAWI]

Ok, so I have a very fussy 4 year old eater. T date I have pandered around, asked MUM for suggestions etc... But I keep getting the same Answers, Pizza and Pasta. I explained to Mum I do not want to provide Pizza and Pasta all the time, she needs variety and nutrients.
So asks Mum this morning if she likea a roast Dinner- answer she will eat the Veg but maybe not the Yorkshire puddings and does not like Gravy. ok so I have cooked a Simple Roast Dinner minus gravy for her but she refuses to eat it because I put the Yorkshire eon the plate.

So do I just dig in - using lots of encouragement obviously and let her go hungry?

Or do I make her something else. Everything is saying make her something else I don't like to see them go hungry but I know if I make her something else that will be it and forever making a rod for my own back.

What would you do??

Thanks

Sorry for long post.

[dolly1985]

I personally would let her go hungry!

[smurfette]

Yes they have to learn to eat what is put in front if them.. Sure everyone has preferences but this Lo needs her 'reportaire' extending ! Maybe a little bribery with some pudding?

[Vikki5531]

Ok, so I have a very fussy 4 year old eater. T date I have pandered around, asked MUM for suggestions etc... But I keep getting the same Answers, Pizza and Pasta. I explained to Mum I do not want to provide Pizza and Pasta all the time, she needs variety and nutrients. So asks Mum this morning if she likea a roast Dinner- answer she will eat the Veg but maybe not the Yorkshire puddings and does not like Gravy. ok so I have cooked a Simple Roast Dinner minus gravy for her but she refuses to eat it because I put the Yorkshire eon the plate. So do I just dig in - using lots of encouragement obviously and let her go hungry? Or do I make her something else. Everything is saying make her something else I don't like to see them go hungry but I know if I make her something else that will be it and forever making a rod for my own back. What would you do?? Thanks Sorry for long post.


I might not have the best advice as I'm not a registered CM as of yet, but I have my DD4's friends for tea a couple of times a week.

I make them all the same meals, and usually one of them always says, "i don't like this, it's disgusting" (before even trying it). I don't make a fuss, but praise my DD4 and her other friend for eating. I make sure that the fussy one stays at the table with us, and eventually she will then start eating to join in with us :)

I definitely wouldn't be making her an alternative meal as it's not fair on you or the other children.

Good luck and I hope you get it sorted and I'm sure you'll get lots more advice on here xx

[AliceK]

I have one exactly the same. Seems all she will eat is rubbish and I try and cook healthy balanced meals. It's always the wrong this or the wrong that etc etc. I now don't make a fuss, give her a small portion and if it's not eaten then fine. I've spent so long getting stressed and resentful about it and no more. She can take it and make an effort with it or go hungry. I am not a café.

xxxx

[QualityCare]

I would not have put the yorkshire pudding on the plate, mum had said she probably wouldn't eat it but asked her if she wanted a small piece to try, the rest of the dinner l would have given to her and removed if uneaten after a reasonable time and no she wouldn't get anything else. I found it very stressful when l was cooking meals as children aren't all given the same sort meals l cooked when at home and most children will always want the same as mum cooks no matter how long they have been with us. I always remember asking a 7yr old if he liked macaroni cheese he said yes so l made it for dinner and he didn't touch it when l reminded him he had said he liked it he said l do but its not the same as mums hers comes out of a tin!!

[Goatgirl]

Hi :),
I would not be providing any alternative. You asked mum what she would like, you provided it, the child refused to eat it.

I only provide snack as it used to drive me mad planning nutritious meals, cooking every day and then throwing loads of it away.
Now I provide snacks only, parents provide a packed lunch and children go home to eat with parents.

I write an extensive list of healthy foods which I ask parents to look through and mark which ones their child will eat, write any relevant comments about particularities etc. There's a space to write items the children really do not like too.

Then I provide foodstuffs from the list and if the child refuses to eat that's fine and I make no fuss, but they don't get alternatives. As I provide snack I do it in a particular order: fruit/veg then yoghurt, then starchy stuff e.g. crumpets, savoury muffins, bread, crackers or toast, all with a choice of toppings: honey, marmite, cheese, ham. Occasionally we have geobars or similar to end on. Each 'course must be eaten if they want the next one, otherwise they're not really hungry as far as I'm concerned.....

Make it clear what will happen at the beginning of the meal and follow through :).

Good luck :thumbsup:

[SYLVIA]

As already posted, I too would not provide alternative meal. I never give something I know a child dislikes so there's no excuse not to eat. I give small portions but there can be more if they want more. I stick to meal and snack times and they don't get stuff in between so if they don't eat the meal they have to wait. I too have done with stressing about eating. They get a reasonable time to finish and if they choose to mess about and not eat, that's down to them. Another thing I have is parents bringing children, who have clearly just been dragged out of bed and telling me they may be hungry because thy didn't want their breakfast. If I say "they will be hungry at snack time then' they look at me expecting me to say I'll give them breakfast then. And this is when they turn up just in time for the school run knowing I'm off out straight after :mad:

[bunyip]

Complete sympathy from me. This subject really gets my hackles up and is something I struggle with a lot. It brings out all the worst of parent's attitudes, unruly children and glib, useless 'solutions' from so-called 'professionals'.

OK, most children I find are ok with food. But it only takes one (and I know cos I used to be food-fussy - maybe this is karma catching up with me after all these years. :( )

Parents make all the right mumsie-angst noises about healthy eating and liking our sample menus. Then when Little Miss Fussy starts diggin her heels in ("Eeeeugh - don't like it!" - "But you haven't even seen it.") It soon transpires that all they eat at home comes out of a tin or a cardboard box, accompanied by some cr4ppy disney toy. Mum's 'healthy eating' is just a load of flannel, and we're expected to do the job for them (like the ones that leave all the potty training to the CM - cos they're paying us to solve all their parenting problems, aren't they?)

I find the dieticians, health and childcare 'professionals' utterly useless. It doesn't help that they start from the totally unscientific notion of this or that food being "healthy" or "unhealthy"; it would help if they understood that no food can be labelled as such - there are only "healthy" or "unhealthy" diets, not individual foods. :mad:

So, we have to offer "healthy food" - which they refuse. We're supposed to "encourage" them, and praise the others who do eat it. How stupid do they think the child is? When I was a fussy eater, no amount of encouragement would induce me to eat what I didn't like, and I would sit at the table for hours, knowing I was more stubborn than my mum who'd crack long before I would. Adults have other things to do; children are single-minded enough to sit it out. Face it: would you do something you hated for a s0dding sticker??? :huh:

We "aren't allowed" to do the "eat up and you'll win a pudding" thing. Nutritionists say we should never use food as a reward/punishment as it increases food anxieties. Also, the pudding should be included in the nutritional balance of the overall meal - not that they tell you what to do if the child picks all the 'nice stuff' off a balanced plateful and leaves everything else. :(

Alternatives aren't a viable option either. Again, I've been told off by 'professionals' for offering toast as an alternative to a child who flatly refuses good meals. I must admit, it does tend to result in children screaming "take that stuff away and bring me toast". My logic is to at least get something inside them. The 'professionals' say, "give them fruit" - but then I have children begging fruit before the proper meal is even laid out before them. And btw this is another piece of 'healthy eating' b0ll0x. There is nothing good about a diet dominated by fruit, and children are taking in massive amounts of sugars from fruit. Just because it's 'natural' (a pretty meaningless term anyway) doesn't stop it being sugar.

So there you have it. They won't eat the proper meal. I can't force them, even though I have the tube and funnel all clean and at the ready. I can't bribe them. I can't offer an alternative. They aren't daft enough to be 'encouraged' to go through their equivalent of Hell for a sticker or pat on the head. They are stubborn enough to sit it out until we need the table for painting. Frankly, they care more, so they win.......................... Oh, yes; and we're supposed to make sure they eat something, but not allowed to give them anything they'll actually eat.

Answers on a postcard, please.................................? :huh:

[Simona]

We cannot force children to eat food they do not like...or more precisely ...food they have not been given at home for whatever reason, maybe the parents are very busy...or not able to cook good meals...or are struggling financially...or provide what is easy for peace of mind and avoid fights over food...we must look at all angles and not be so judgemental

We cannot let children go hungry either...that is not something we should do

But...as it is our setting and our ethos we could have a policy that encourages good eating practices...children could be encouraged to try new things...not forced
If a child proves very difficult then we can agree with the parents not to offer dinner and have an issue every day but let the children be fed at home?...
We could discuss with parents how to do that and work together ...starting with what children really like and going from there...

we could also involve the children in this and listen to their point of view without labelling them 'fussy eaters'...I know many adults who are very particular about what they eat...I never hear them being labelled 'fussy'.

[hectors house]

If a child doesn't like the meal I put in front of them, I try to make sure I don't serve that meal again on a day when that child attends. I do expect the child to at least try the meal before they claim they don't like it and I do put a pudding on the table as a visual reminder of what they can have when they have either finished their meal or eaten a reasonable amount. If they refuse to eat any of it then I offer them a plain piece of bread, so at least they have eaten something and I may let them have some fruit later.

[bunyip]

I'm happy to swap any of my clients' "financial struggles" for mine. Or their salaries, houses, vehicles, mobile phones, laptops, tablets, holidays, nights out, wives (oops, shouldn't have put that in, now, should I?) :p

My real concern is that some of us are stuck in a regulatory Catch 22, exacerbated by current health policy fashions, and that providing something the paying client is happy with would actually be frowned upon by Ofsted and health/children's services 'professionals.' :(

[ziggy]

As i've mentioned many times on here, I do same as I have done for the last 35yrs.

Meal or snack is put in front of child. If they dont eat or start being difficult I lift them down from chair tell them to go and play, then sit eating and chatting to others at table.

Considering we eat at 9am, 1030ish, 12.30ish, 3ish and possibly 5ish, there is no need for anyone to go hungry. I dont do fussy eating lol.

[mama2three]

This is a problem for most of us at some time.
Im afraid that whatever the newest 'advice' is I don't offer alternatives , and they only get pudding if they've either eaten all , or had a good go at , their main meal.

My sons school seems a little more laid back though - this is an excerpt from the may newsletter....

PACKED LUNCHES - STOP PRESS: Whilst we encourage a healthy lifestyle and promote healthy eating whenever possible, we are also realists! It would be great if all our children loved fruit & veggies more than cake and crisps but ……… we know that some of them will only be nourished by the latter. Please be reassured that at St Marys we will NOT be policing your child's lunch box - whatever Mr Gove tells us to do! We would rather they worked on a full stomach and enjoyed their lunch - whatever that may be!

[ziggy]

Just to add I'm not into this healthy eating nonsense either. I am sure we are raising a generation that will have all sorts of food issues, time will tell

[ziggy]

This is a problem for most of us at some time.
Im afraid that whatever the newest 'advice' is I don't offer alternatives , and they only get pudding if they've either eaten all , or had a good go at , their main meal.

My sons school seems a little more laid back though - this is an excerpt from the may newsletter....

PACKED LUNCHES - STOP PRESS: Whilst we encourage a healthy lifestyle and promote healthy eating whenever possible, we are also realists! It would be great if all our children loved fruit & veggies more than cake and crisps but ……… we know that some of them will only be nourished by the latter. Please be reassured that at St Marys we will NOT be policing your child's lunch box - whatever Mr Gove tells us to do! We would rather they worked on a full stomach and enjoyed their lunch - whatever that may be!

well done that school, about flipping time

[mrsb79]

Hi all, it is difficult to please everyone!! I strive to provide a variety of different foods which are healthy and nutritious with the odd treat thrown in, however like many of you I struggle because parents don't , won't or can't do the same at home which makes my job 10 times harder over the last six months I have decided that if the children won't eat what is put in front of them I will offer a slice of toast and some fruit whilst the others will eat there meal and then receive dessert. I have explained this to all parents and stressed to them that I can't be making several different meals to suit each child and should their child not eat what is offered then the parent will be informed so that they can give them something at home. My biggest bug bear is that half of the children do get picked up at a decent enough time that they could be having family meals at home and when you gently suggest this you are met with the " I don't have time, it's shower and bedtime when we get in " most of my mindees are picked up by 5.30pm !!!! I do also remind them that not only do I cook for my mindees but I also have to cook again for my own family!! If a child won't eat offer some toast as an alternative just to cover yourself x

[MAWI]

My real concern is that some of us are stuck in a regulatory Catch 22, exacerbated by current health policy fashions, and that providing something the paying client is happy with would actually be frowned upon by Ofsted and health/children's services 'professionals.' :(

Totally agree. Definatley stuck between a rock and a hard place!

The Parents are very busy working professionals but certainly NOT struggling. Grandma helps out on the days I don't have them, they have a cleaner and a gardener. I'm just a long list of hired help, lol. I think it's all about convenience for food and it seems that her favourites are pizza, pasta and Hotdogs!!! Not something I will be providing every day. Can you imagine Ofsted!!

Well the result was she did not eat a lot. I did not provide an alternative. I took off the Yorkshire pudding. Mum did say give it a go but maybe she won't eat it( great definitive answer) she was left with meat, potatoes and vegetable which she has eaten before but refused.
I like to provide healthy and nutritious meals but what I call real meals, I.e Roast Dinner, shepherds Pies, lasagnes, variety of pasta, fish, salads, jacket potatoes etc... I try and vary it and ensure they have plenty of fruit and veg at snack and with meals.
I discussed all this with Mum when she started, showed my Menus and explained I do provide small treats at times and quick meals if we have been out such as Pizza or if we make them. I also got a list of likes and dislikes etc...

Anyway on collection, I explained to Mum what happened. She was not very happy because said child was saying"Mummy I'm hungry, I'm Hungry". I got told I get paid to feed her!!! And I should have just given her a Pizza and saved myself a load of hassle!! DEFINATELY CATCH 22!!! I said I was fed up with throwing good quality food away and pulled out my healthy eating policy and leaflets from my bumph that I had lying around. But maybe I should just give her Pizza not sure I can stand the stress, lol. Not sure she is happy but I think I will try and have a chat with her next week and see if we can come to a compromise. But it will not be Pizza everyday!!
Thanks for all your replies

[AliceK]

My own children are bought up to understand that there are no "Bad" foods and no one food is "Best" so long as we eat a balanced diet all foods are acceptable and will keep us healthy.

I get a lot of info from parents before a child starts with me and obviously have chats over time whilst they are with me to find out if that child has any genuine dislikes, if they do I make sure they don't get given that. Otherwise I plan and cook balanced meals for everyone. I don't expect any child to eat everything on their plate but I do expect them to make a good effort and sitting there telling me they don't like that and they don't like this and it's the wrong this and the wrong that I will not tolerate. It puts a negative spin on everyone else at the table so if they don't want to eat anything then fine but they can sit at the table with everyone else until we have finished the meal. I am quite truthful with parents and if a child hasn't eaten anything at dinner time I will make the parent aware and it's up to them if they want to go home and feed their child rubbish.
If I served chicken nuggets or pizza and chips every night I'm sure I would have very happy children.

xxx

[ziggy]

Totally agree. Definatley stuck between a rock and a hard place!

The Parents are very busy working professionals but certainly NOT struggling. Grandma helps out on the days I don't have them, they have a cleaner and a gardener. I'm just a long list of hired help, lol. I think it's all about convenience for food and it seems that her favourites are pizza, pasta and Hotdogs!!! Not something I will be providing every day. Can you imagine Ofsted!!

Well the result was she did not eat a lot. I did not provide an alternative. I took off the Yorkshire pudding. Mum did say give it a go but maybe she won't eat it( great definitive answer) she was left with meat, potatoes and vegetable which she has eaten before but refused.
I like to provide healthy and nutritious meals but what I call real meals, I.e Roast Dinner, shepherds Pies, lasagnes, variety of pasta, fish, salads, jacket potatoes etc... I try and vary it and ensure they have plenty of fruit and veg at snack and with meals.
I discussed all this with Mum when she started, showed my Menus and explained I do provide small treats at times and quick meals if we have been out such as Pizza or if we make them. I also got a list of likes and dislikes etc...

Anyway on collection, I explained to Mum what happened. She was not very happy because said child was saying"Mummy I'm hungry, I'm Hungry". I got told I get paid to feed her!!! And I should have just given her a Pizza and saved myself a load of hassle!! DEFINATELY CATCH 22!!! I said I was fed up with throwing good quality food away and pulled out my healthy eating policy and leaflets from my bumph that I had lying around. But maybe I should just give her Pizza not sure I can stand the stress, lol. Not sure she is happy but I think I will try and have a chat with her next week and see if we can come to a compromise. But it will not be Pizza everyday!!
Thanks for all your replies

Seems to me you are providing foods she supposedly likes but the child is refusing to eat it, so you're doing what you're 'paid' to do. I wouldnt be happy if parent said such a thing

[tess1981]

Seems to me you are providing foods she supposedly likes but the child is refusing to eat it, so you're doing what you're 'paid' to do. I wouldnt be happy if parent said such a thing

If a parent said that to me about do what you are paid to do.....I would tell them I will throw in a little extra for free.. ie the road out if here!!!!! How dare she. She knows ofsted would have your guts for garters if you fed pizza and fash food to the child. You have a healthy eating policy. It's your setting your rules.. you are for want of a better word training the child in good food habits.... grrrrrrr

[Kiddleywinks]

I've been very fortunate I must admit, even the fussy eaters eat what's put in front of them thankfully, apart from one, who decided one day aged 3 that they weren't going to have tea here.
I worked with mum, obviously mum was on board, and if she didn't eat here, I packed it up for mum to reheat at home, which she did (amazingly whatever we had here for tea, was what mum had made her too lol)

This has now gone on for over a year! (Talking about LO's being stubborn lol) with a slight twist.
LO is still adamant, several times throughout the day, they're not having tea here, I agree and confirm I'm not making them tea today.
Tea time arrives, child claims to be hungry, oh, right, but you don't want tea here do you and now it's our tea time. If you're hungry, you can have some of what we're having if you want to....
Child eats

Go figure!

I do think it's a control thing with my LO, in that they feel in control of the situation (even though they're not)

If a child knows by not eating with you, parents will cave in at home and give the junk food they prefer, then you are on a hiding to nothing.
If you provide food, pack it up, give to mum and say this is what was made, your child didn't want it, but you can have the meal as it's part of our contract that I provide a meal.
Maybe when mum gets fed up of seeing their child turn their nose up at a perfectly good nutritious meal they'll get fed up of having to cook again at home after a hard day at work

Just as a giggle.
One of my fussy eaters didn't like potatoes, but they liked spuds :laughing:

[tess1981]

I've been very fortunate I must admit, even the fussy eaters eat what's put in front of them thankfully, apart from one, who decided one day aged 3 that they weren't going to have tea here.
I worked with mum, obviously mum was on board, and if she didn't eat here, I packed it up for mum to reheat at home, which she did (amazingly whatever we had here for tea, was what mum had made her too lol)

This has now gone on for over a year! (Talking about LO's being stubborn lol) with a slight twist.
LO is still adamant, several times throughout the day, they're not having tea here, I agree and confirm I'm not making them tea today.
Tea time arrives, child claims to be hungry, oh, right, but you don't want tea here do you and now it's our tea time. If you're hungry, you can have some of what we're having if you want to....
Child eats

Go figure!

I do think it's a control thing with my LO, in that they feel in control of the situation (even though they're not)

If a child knows by not eating with you, parents will cave in at home and give the junk food they prefer, then you are on a hiding to nothing.
If you provide food, pack it up, give to mum and say this is what was made, your child didn't want it, but you can have the meal as it's part of our contract that I provide a meal.
Maybe when mum gets fed up of seeing their child turn their nose up at a perfectly good nutritious meal they'll get fed up of having to cook again at home after a hard day at work

Just as a giggle.
One of my fussy eaters didn't like potatoes, but they liked spuds :laughing:

My dd did not like lamb but ate beef.... which went baaaa lol years later she caught on that sone days the mint sauce was set out with the 'beef' and some days it was Yorkshire puddings

[JCrakers]

I know as a Mum I've made a rod for my own back because as a family there is only 1 meal that we can all eat together.

DS doesn't like Lasagne or Pasta
DD doesn't like Sunday Roast
DS like Chicken with Mayo in his Pack up
DD likes no Mayo
DS likes Tuna with loads of Mayo
DD likes plain tuna
DS will eat cottage pie, DD hates it.....

Then list goes on. :rolleyes: Over the years I have, as a parent been cooking 3 different meals at tea time for a long time. 1 for DD, 1 for DS and another for me and hubby....I know...IM AN IDIOT :D On occasion we will eat as a 3 with the other one having fish fingers or similar.


My Mum (in the 70's-80's) would dish up one meal....we ate it or we didn't...simple. But living in a 'have to do the right thing' society nowadays I feel so guilty giving my children food that they don't like. I remember a pie I had to eat every Monday which was ****** awful but very Monday it was served up.

With my mindees I don't do a lot of cooking. Out of 13 mindees I cook for 3 either 1 or 2 days a week so I only actually cook 1 meal on a Tuesday,2 on a weds and 1 on a Thurs. Everyone else has a cold lunch.

I do only cook 1 meal for mindees and its usually based on their likes and dislikes. If I had a fussy eater who would only eat certain foods then I would probably say to Mum that 'After trying lots of foods that are being wasted then I'm offering an alternative of a cold/sandwich type meal from now on and a hot meal can be given at home in the evening :thumbsup:

[Tinkerbell1979]

They go hungry in this house including my own kids x

[skatie]

One of my mindees likes very plain food, like mash potato and plain mince.... No sauce. Mummy would go on and on about how dearest daughter could only eat this and that, daughter when on and on about 'my mummy lets me eat chocolate spread sandwiches for breakfast'.

It used to irk me that I was having to change my whole way of cooking for just one child. So decided to put my foot down and would cook as per normal and serve it up, as I put it on the table I would say xx this is your dinner as it's plain just has ketchup'. Who would then gobble up all her dinner? It's a control thing!

I did a 'survey' last night as all the children I feed were in the same room. I'd call out a meal and they would say if they liked it or not. I now have a list of who likes what. When I shouted out who likes macaroni cheese, the same particular child said 'me! But I don't like cheese sauce.' So basically she'll eat the plain pasta when we have macaroni cheese.

[ziggy]

They go hungry in this house including my own kids x

If a child was hungry they would eat :laughing:

[fionamal]

I don't pander to them, they either eat it or they don't get anything else and that goes for my own kids too.

[Fitrix]

It never ceases to amaze me that kids are prepared to go hungry rather than eat anything they don't really like. I operate a " try your best / if you're really not hungry then you can't be hungry for pudding" approach and deny treat foods if they are being fussy rather than genuinely disliking the food (and I don't give them what I know they don't like). I work in conjunction with parents in this but am always discovering at a later stage that although the parent talks the talk and says infront of me "well you didn't eat your dinner so you'll get nothing at home" (cue major tantrum and sulks), the child gets all manner of c@@p at home. One mindee's mum keeps Jaffa cakes in her car to keep her child happy on the drive home. So invariably said child doesn't eat dinner.....

[Tinkerbell1979]

If a child was hungry they would eat :laughing: You'd think wouldn't you but they don't unless sweets crisps cake or yogurt !

[k-tots]

Moto in my house...eat it dont eat it get nothing else.....every Wednesday I cook pasta...I know my ds wont entertain it and wont sit at the table....but if hes hungry he will come to the table and eat x

[Maza]

Totally agree. Definatley stuck between a rock and a hard place!

The Parents are very busy working professionals but certainly NOT struggling. Grandma helps out on the days I don't have them, they have a cleaner and a gardener. I'm just a long list of hired help, lol. I think it's all about convenience for food and it seems that her favourites are pizza, pasta and Hotdogs!!! Not something I will be providing every day. Can you imagine Ofsted!!

Well the result was she did not eat a lot. I did not provide an alternative. I took off the Yorkshire pudding. Mum did say give it a go but maybe she won't eat it( great definitive answer) she was left with meat, potatoes and vegetable which she has eaten before but refused.
I like to provide healthy and nutritious meals but what I call real meals, I.e Roast Dinner, shepherds Pies, lasagnes, variety of pasta, fish, salads, jacket potatoes etc... I try and vary it and ensure they have plenty of fruit and veg at snack and with meals.
I discussed all this with Mum when she started, showed my Menus and explained I do provide small treats at times and quick meals if we have been out such as Pizza or if we make them. I also got a list of likes and dislikes etc...

Anyway on collection, I explained to Mum what happened. She was not very happy because said child was saying"Mummy I'm hungry, I'm Hungry". I got told I get paid to feed her!!! And I should have just given her a Pizza and saved myself a load of hassle!! DEFINATELY CATCH 22!!! I said I was fed up with throwing good quality food away and pulled out my healthy eating policy and leaflets from my bumph that I had lying around. But maybe I should just give her Pizza not sure I can stand the stress, lol. Not sure she is happy but I think I will try and have a chat with her next week and see if we can come to a compromise. But it will not be Pizza everyday!!
Thanks for all your replies

I suspect child was saying she was hungry to get a reaction as she knows there is an issue here. Mine (including those who have chosen not to eat that day) are just so happy to see their parents that it doesn't enter their heads to say they are hungry at that point. I'm sure they say it shortly afterwards because they probably are genuinely hungry, but I would be suspicious if they were saying it as soon as mum/dad arrived. Maybe, going forward, agree with mum that you will not mention food in front of the child. Is it all written in a daily diary? If mum needs to say any more on the issue she could email you later in the evening, away from her LO's ears. Very rude of mum, by the way. x

[Simona]

We should ask why 'would a child use food to attract attention'?
why are we saying to children 'if you don't eat your food you can't have any pudding'?.... sounds just like the famous song in A Brick in the wall...remember?...with definite connections to educating children to good eating habits?...or not

Is food being used as a challenge to children? why prepare something they do not like and present it to them?
if someone gave me something they knew I truly disliked I would find that offensive...would you not?

My point is that we either include food in our fees or charge separately...as we are 'paid' for that service should that not reflect children's likes and dislikes?
so why offer food children dislike...then tell them to get off the table? why not work out a menu with them that reflects everyone's needs and likes?
within that we can use our professional judgement to encourage better eating and knock bad practices on the head maybe?

why use eating as a sort of gentle blackmail....maybe my opinion is driven by my culture where food is eaten and enjoyed by all and where no one would offer food someone dislikes.

Some parents maybe are very busy and not go the extra mile ...but some do struggle financially and we must respect that...we will never know all the ins and outs of their private lives ...is the govt not offering free childcare to families on low income?
are we not seeing food banks feeding working families?....there is always another side to the story

[jo hawkins]

I've got a 2 1/2 yr old that's just the same parents provide food & snacks but she just wont eat it i've even tried not giving her anything else till the afternoon but she still wont her lunch

[lilac_dragon]

I only provide the snacks in between meals, usually fruit or veggie sticks.
My Cottage Pie doesn't taste like my Mum's, or my sister's, or my daughters even though it's basically the same - this seems to be the most common issue, so I get the parent to supply the child's meals if they eat here.
Never had a problem, and as my family are all now working age rather than school, it means I only cook once - when my family are home from work rather than after school etc.

works for me!

[VeggieSausage]

In countries where there is not enough food there is no such thing as a fussy eater, it is created by parents. I would not give a fussy child snacks and just present meals, if they are not eaten then they cannot be that hungry and can wait for the next one. Of course I do not purposefully feed children the few things they don't like, but a child who is just mega picky can just get what they are given quite frankly. I have never had a long term picky child if they start off picky it soon stops (if I have them enough days, and sometimes they eat everything at mine and are still mega picky at home).

It is hard when picky eaters arrive. I also think that we are possibly teaching children to over eat by having 2 snacks and 3 meals a day rather than just 3 meals a day., it seems like a constant grazing culture.....also I seem to get a lot of parents who feed children a lot of snacks and yoghurt - blinkin endless yoghurt, sweet, fatty yoghurt - ok in moderation but not all a meal substitute.....oh now I have got started I can't stop - my other bugbear is pouches of food which children suck out of the pouch, how is that normal?

I'll get off my soapbox now!! lol

[Maza]

We should ask why 'would a child use food to attract attention'?
why are we saying to children 'if you don't eat your food you can't have any pudding'?.... sounds just like the famous song in A Brick in the wall...remember?...with definite connections to educating children to good eating habits?...or not

Is food being used as a challenge to children? why prepare something they do not like and present it to them?
if someone gave me something they knew I truly disliked I would find that offensive...would you not?

My point is that we either include food in our fees or charge separately...as we are 'paid' for that service should that not reflect children's likes and dislikes?
so why offer food children dislike...then tell them to get off the table? why not work out a menu with them that reflects everyone's needs and likes?
within that we can use our professional judgement to encourage better eating and knock bad practices on the head maybe?

why use eating as a sort of gentle blackmail....maybe my opinion is driven by my culture where food is eaten and enjoyed by all and where no one would offer food someone dislikes.

Some parents maybe are very busy and not go the extra mile ...but some do struggle financially and we must respect that...we will never know all the ins and outs of their private lives ...is the govt not offering free childcare to families on low income?
are we not seeing food banks feeding working families?....there is always another side to the story

Simona, you don't have to think the worst of us. Most of us, including the OP DO include children/parents in the planning of menus and DO NOT offer food that children 'truly dislike' - or tell them to 'get off the table'. How are you coming to those conclusions?

[jackie 7]

With my fussy eaters I reduced snacks to very little.most eat everything. I got fed up with throwing away food they LOVED at home Now I do eat it or don't I'm not bothered!!

[bunyip]

Simona, you don't have to think the worst of us. Most of us, including the OP DO include children/parents in the planning of menus and DO NOT offer food that children 'truly dislike' - or tell them to 'get off the table'. How are you coming to those conclusions?

.....and where are all the parents who "...are struggling financially..." in London's most affluent Borough (average property price now touching £1/2 million) ? I never saw many.

I, like most people on this thread, am speaking from my own experience, and would prefer not to be dictated to based on the assumptions someone else has made about my clients.

I call my fussy eater such, because she is fussy about her eating. I'm a bit out of touch, rather old-fashioned, and prefer straight-talking to the current fashion for beating about the linguistic bush. What do I call it when a child refuses the exact same meal she "loved" last week, or makes vulgar noises and pulls rude faces at the mere mention of a meal she's never even seen? I don't happen to know the current fashionable term for this in the 'professional' 'educare' circles, when they're pontificating in between blowing the froth off their double-skinny-cappu-lattes in the college refectory. I have no problem calling a spade a spade (or a ******* shovel, if I prefer.) I'm not calling her to her face, or her parent, so I'm not "labelling" her in a harmful way. As Sherlock would put it, "I'm not insulting [her], I'm describing [her]".

Yes, Veggie is right: so much of this is down to the parents. Every time I get a 'fussy', I find they are being pandered to at home and spoilt by other relations they go to. Anything for a quiet life, whilst grandma supplies a constant flow of 'treats' to make them 'love' her more. :mad: It's not at all about parents being too busy in the evening (unless you count their social life as a jolly good reason for being 'too busy' to consider their child's health) - it's about convenience and taking the path of least resistance, then expecting the CM to deliver on nutritional requirements and civilising the child (presumably with the school then taking up the baton in due time.) And note how the Gove-rnment seems to think it's going to solve all the child health woes with school food (especially since the Olympic 'legacy' is proving a bit too flabby and tired to fix anything.) (OMG - just got sympathetic with schools - must've forgotten my tablets. :eek: )

My mum had up to 3 jobs going at any one time, and frequently had to leave a meal for me to come home to whilst she was out. I was an awkward s0d about food, but I can at least say she took the trouble to leave a good meal. The parents I've had of fussy eaters are not giving them quick & easy meals cos they have to dash off to work of an evening: their evenings are spent with the TV or going out.

Ironically, if I'd been a child in this day and age, I'd probably be in care. Mum leaving a good meal whilst going out to work to support us would be classed as 'neglect' by the 'professionals'. Presumably, preferring a quiet no-fights evening with the TV over making an effort to feed them properly falls into the category of 'perfectly acceptable'. :huh:

[bunyip]

Btw, I'm done with the soapbox now Veggie, if you need it back.......................................... ;)







It must be Sunday: I never did get the hang of Sundays......................... :rolleyes:

[jadavi]

Keep them coming Bunyip
Love your posts :) they make me laugh and get me out of bed in the mornings!!

[smurfette]

.....and where are all the parents who "...are struggling financially..." in London's most affluent Borough (average property price now touching £1/2 million) ? I never saw many. I, like most people on this thread, am speaking from my own experience, and would prefer not to be dictated to based on the assumptions someone else has made about my clients. I call my fussy eater such, because she is fussy about her eating. I'm a bit out of touch, rather old-fashioned, and prefer straight-talking to the current fashion for beating about the linguistic bush. What do I call it when a child refuses the exact same meal she "loved" last week, or makes vulgar noises and pulls rude faces at the mere mention of a meal she's never even seen? I don't happen to know the current fashionable term for this in the 'professional' 'educare' circles, when they're pontificating in between blowing the froth off their double-skinny-cappu-lattes in the college refectory. I have no problem calling a spade a spade (or a ******* shovel, if I prefer.) I'm not calling her to her face, or her parent, so I'm not "labelling" her in a harmful way. As Sherlock would put it, "I'm not insulting [her], I'm describing [her]". Yes, Veggie is right: so much of this is down to the parents. Every time I get a 'fussy', I find they are being pandered to at home and spoilt by other relations they go to. Anything for a quiet life, whilst grandma supplies a constant flow of 'treats' to make them 'love' her more. :mad: It's not at all about parents being too busy in the evening (unless you count their social life as a jolly good reason for being 'too busy' to consider their child's health) - it's about convenience and taking the path of least resistance, then expecting the CM to deliver on nutritional requirements and civilising the child (presumably with the school then taking up the baton in due time.) And note how the Gove-rnment seems to think it's going to solve all the child health woes with school food (especially since the Olympic 'legacy' is proving a bit too flabby and tired to fix anything.) (OMG - just got sympathetic with schools - must've forgotten my tablets. :eek: ) My mum had up to 3 jobs going at any one time, and frequently had to leave a meal for me to come home to whilst she was out. I was an awkward s0d about food, but I can at least say she took the trouble to leave a good meal. The parents I've had of fussy eaters are not giving them quick & easy meals cos they have to dash off to work of an evening: their evenings are spent with the TV or going out. Ironically, if I'd been a child in this day and age, I'd probably be in care. Mum leaving a good meal whilst going out to work to support us would be classed as 'neglect' by the 'professionals'. Presumably, preferring a quiet no-fights evening with the TV over making an effort to feed them properly falls into the category of 'perfectly acceptable'. :huh:

Hear hear bunyip!!!!!

[Simona]

Maza...I do not think or judge cms involved in this discussion...I just gave my opinion as this is an open forum that allows freedom of speech?
I started by saying if there was a need to 'label' children 'fussy eaters'?
It seems to me in this culture there is a label for everything and everyone....I do not agree with labelling

I was arguing for the children's point of view...but have to say I find some of the comment rather worrying and personal from some....I don't feel it is necessary

Bunyip...yes I do live in the south and yes there are many affluent parents ...BUT...there is also poverty down here
Please Stop judging or guessing what we are... what we do or how we struggle...how do you know?

There is no 'educare' circle...as you call it...another label... and there is no reason to constantly use your sarcasm in any discussion, some find it amusing ...many do not.
I respect your views but please respect others' too...this forum is for info sharing not amusement but I am sure there is a place for that too in the right section.

[bunyip]

:rolleyes: Sexism alert - quick, read this post before it gets deleted....



Keep them coming Bunyip
Love your posts :) they make me laugh and get me out of bed in the mornings!!

Oh no................................!!!!! :panic:

Just goes to show I'm getting oooooooooooolllllllllllldddddddddddddd........

.........I used to be able to get the laydeez into bed - now I get them out of bed. :(

It happens to us all, eventually. :p

[bunyip]

Maza...I do not think or judge cms involved in this discussion...I just gave my opinion as this is an open forum that allows freedom of speech?
I started by saying if there was a need to 'label' children 'fussy eaters'?
It seems to me in this culture there is a label for everything and everyone....I do not agree with labelling

I was arguing for the children's point of view...but have to say I find some of the comment rather worrying and personal from some....I don't feel it is necessary

Bunyip...yes I do live in the south and yes there are many affluent parents ...BUT...there is also poverty down here
Please Stop judging or guessing what we are... what we do or how we struggle...how do you know?

There is no 'educare' circle...as you call it...another label... and there is no reason to constantly use your sarcasm in any discussion, some find it amusing ...many do not.
I respect your views but please respect others' too...


this forum is for info sharing not amusement but I am sure there is a place for that too in the right section.

.............................. s'ppose I'd better toddle off and find a section where I'm allowed to express an opinion in a way I choose. :(

I'm clearly not allowed an opinion on an area where I spent a fair length of time living..........and studying. Whereas judgment can be freely made on my clients (not to mention other members') by one who has never seen..............

Respect other's views. That's obvious by the constant need to have the last word on anyone who disagrees. Disagreeing is "offensive". Observation is "sarcasm". War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. etc,

Off now.......................... :(

[rickysmiths]

I find with all the children they enjoy eating more if they are included in the shopping and making of the meal. They also enjoy growing the food they eat and again I find they will often try different things if they have been included in the choice of what they grow and they help grow and crop.

Before anyone comments they don't have the room I managed to do this on a small scale in pots when I lived in a flat, you don't have to have a garden. We got 4lbs of runner beans from 2 beans planted in a 12 " pot on the balcony one year.

[Simona]

.............................. s'ppose I'd better toddle off and find a section where I'm allowed to express an opinion in a way I choose. :(

I'm clearly not allowed an opinion on an area where I spent a fair length of time living..........and studying. Whereas judgment can be freely made on my clients (not to mention other members') by one who has never seen..............

Respect other's views. That's obvious by the constant need to have the last word on anyone who disagrees. Disagreeing is "offensive". Observation is "sarcasm". War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. etc,

Off now.......................... :(

Have the last word Bunyip as you appear to be misunderstanding on purpose
Have a good day!

[Mouse]

One of the tricks I have found that works is to cut out a morning snack. By lunchtime, and after a busy morning, the children are usually ravenous and ready to eat whatever I put in front of them.

I do sometimes wonder if fussy eaters aren't really that hungry when they sit down to eat, so can afford to be picky. If they've had a good breakfast, they should really last through until lunchtime.

It's the same in the afternoon. If a child has a snack quite late on, are they still hungry enough to eat whatever food is served up? I think we can all be fussy about our food when we're not starving for it, but if we're truly hungry and ready for a meal, we'll probably eat most things.

I also think you do have to take into account that some children simply don't like certain food... and that their tastes can change. I don't serve anything that I know a child definitely doesn't like, but I also allow for a few faddy preferences. If I think a child is hungry, but doesn't want what I've prepared, I will make that a sandwich instead, but only as a one-off, not as a regular occurrence.

[tess1981]

One of the tricks I have found that works is to cut out a morning snack. By lunchtime, and after a busy morning, the children are usually ravenous and ready to eat whatever I put in front of them.

I do sometimes wonder if fussy eaters aren't really that hungry when they sit down to eat, so can afford to be picky. If they've had a good breakfast, they should really last through until lunchtime.

It's the same in the afternoon. If a child has a snack quite late on, are they still hungry enough to eat whatever food is served up? I think we can all be fussy about our food when we're not starving for it, but if we're truly hungry and ready for a meal, we'll probably eat most things.

I also think you do have to take into account that some children simply don't like certain food... and that their tastes can change. I don't serve anything that I know a child definitely doesn't like, but I also allow for a few faddy preferences. If I think a child is hungry, but doesn't want what I've prepared, I will make that a sandwich instead, but only as a one-off, not as a regular occurrence.

It's funny you should say that I am minding a lo who decided to stop eating dinner for no reason she normally would eat everything and one day said no. This went on for ages so I decided one day not to give her any snacks and what til lunch time for her first food she was starving and ate her lunch. I told mum this was what I was doing and she was supportive now we are back to normal am snack lunch and pm snack all being ate

[Fitrix]

Thing is children in this country are never truly hungry. Real hunger is no access to food for days on end! We and our children are spoilt by a easily accessible constant supply of food - healthy and unhealthy that even the poorest can afford.

[bunyip]

Have the last word Bunyip as you appear to be misunderstanding on purpose
Have a good day!

In response to having one's obvious superiority challenged, refer to checklist:-
"misunderstood" - check.
"freedom of speech" - check
"I'm not allowed an opinion" - oh no, someone got there first.
"you are rude/offensive/a bully" - oh that's not gonna work since I just came out against labelling. Oh bu88er. :(

The point is that the OP raised a genuine practical problem with a fussy eater (or it's current pc equivalent label.) I share the same problem, and with interest around 50 posts, it seems likely we're not the only 2. This is a real problem and people (including Bunyip-The-Thicky) come here looking for genuine solutions. It's not even one of those questions that come up which could be solved by a closer reading of the regulations or a greater willingness to follow them - so, more than ever, I'm interested in members' responses.

I'm not afraid to admit to my lack of perfection. Hand on heart, I stand in awe of all the many CMs who cope so well with the challenges of children and come up with practical solutions time after time. I struggle with so much at the CMing equivalent of the shop-floor. OK, there are some things I do pretty well, in between my inadequacies and (more than) fair share of total bloopers. And I'm utterly amazed that the odd CM never seems to have a single problem they can't handle without the support of fellow-members. I have opinions, but I for one do not come to the forum to be admired.

Like far too many of the practical daily issues facing CMs, this is not being addressed by any number of qualifications, or courses, or the simplistic notions of health/childcare 'professionals'. As has already been said, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of regulations and conflicting health fashions. Some of us are stuck there together with a child who won't eat, parents who won't help, and other (non-fussy) mindees don't understand what is going on and why the one with the challenging behaviour is getting all the attention.

Within that scenario, I'm very interested in what other members do, and what they have to say.

But I don't think I or others need lecturing on whether we're using the current 'right-on' fashionable terms for a "culinarily challenging" (???) child's behaviour, when we all know what we mean by the plain and simple "fussy eater". Nor do we need excuses making for our parents, especially when I for one know the specific cases I have in mind have not been in any genuine financial hardship (which is not the same thing as trying to pursue a lifestyle they cannot afford.)

[Simona]

In response to having one's obvious superiority challenged, refer to checklist:-
"misunderstood" - check.
"freedom of speech" - check
"I'm not allowed an opinion" - oh no, someone got there first.
"you are rude/offensive/a bully" - oh that's not gonna work since I just came out against labelling. Oh bu88er. :(

The point is that the OP raised a genuine practical problem with a fussy eater (or it's current pc equivalent label.) I share the same problem, and with interest around 50 posts, it seems likely we're not the only 2. This is a real problem and people (including Bunyip-The-Thicky) come here looking for genuine solutions. It's not even one of those questions that come up which could be solved by a closer reading of the regulations or a greater willingness to follow them - so, more than ever, I'm interested in members' responses.

I'm not afraid to admit to my lack of perfection. Hand on heart, I stand in awe of all the many CMs who cope so well with the challenges of children and come up with practical solutions time after time. I struggle with so much at the CMing equivalent of the shop-floor. OK, there are some things I do pretty well, in between my inadequacies and (more than) fair share of total bloopers. And I'm utterly amazed that the odd CM never seems to have a single problem they can't handle without the support of fellow-members. I have opinions, but I for one do not come to the forum to be admired.

Like far too many of the practical daily issues facing CMs, this is not being addressed by any number of qualifications, or courses, or the simplistic notions of health/childcare 'professionals'. As has already been said, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of regulations and conflicting health fashions. Some of us are stuck there together with a child who won't eat, parents who won't help, and other (non-fussy) mindees don't understand what is going on and why the one with the challenging behaviour is getting all the attention.

Within that scenario, I'm very interested in what other members do, and what they have to say.

But I don't think I or others need lecturing on whether we're using the current 'right-on' fashionable terms for a "culinarily challenging" (???) child's behaviour, when we all know what we mean by the plain and simple "fussy eater". Nor do we need excuses making for our parents, especially when I for one know the specific cases I have in mind have not been in any genuine financial hardship (which is not the same thing as trying to pursue a lifestyle they cannot afford.)

I hope that your lecture makes you feel better Bunyip...I still believe you totally misunderstood my intention and meaning
You have had your say ...have a good evening.

[tess1981]

This is like a game of tennis lol has me hooked.

[bunyip]

This is like a game of tennis lol has me hooked.

You're suggesting some sort of 'love' match ? :rolleyes:

Anyway, back on topic..........................

There seems to be a wide and fascinating variety of techniques/approaches to "self-limiting-culinary-selectors-who-make-puking-noises" (aka "fussy eaters") amongst CMs posting here.

I'm really interested to know the sort of feedback CMs have had from inspectors about the different approaches used. Do Ofsted appear to approve or disapprove of, for example:
Offering an alternative? (i.e."They need energy, so they've got to fill up on whatever you can get in their bellies.")
If so, what alternative?
Withholding pudding?
Treats and rewards?
Refusing an alternative? (i.e. "It's there; they'll eat it if they're hungry.")

I'm not passing judgement on what other CMs have tried (goD knows, I've tried and failed enough times) but I'd be interested in Ofsted inspectors' judgments and comments on the ideas raised here. :thumbsup:

[Rickers83]

Mrs O told me we are not allowed to withhold pudding or use it as a reward,
Which I have found quite difficult as I was bought up with "if you don't eat your befores, you don't get your afters" & have always done the same with my own children

Its been very difficult as my children are still quite young & cant understand why x doesn't eat his dinner but still gets a yoghurt!

[ziggy]

Mrs O told me we are not allowed to withhold pudding or use it as a reward,
Which I have found quite difficult as I was bought up with "if you don't eat your befores, you don't get your afters" & have always done the same with my own children

Its been very difficult as my children are still quite young & cant understand why x doesn't eat his dinner but still gets a yoghurt!

i have never understood this idea, surely children will love a diet of sugary, fruity yoghurts?

[AliceK]

I have never been asked anything to do with this from an Ofsted inspector and I have never asked the question to them myself.
I am open and honest with parents about how I deal with these things though.

xxx

[ziggy]

I have never been asked anything to do with this from an Ofsted inspector and I have never asked the question to them myself.
I am open and honest with parents about how I deal with these things though.

xxx

Thankfully there is no ofsted here. I always tell parents if child hasnt eaten in my setting. All mindees bring their own food, I just provide drinks and fruit

[munch149]

I'm more one for they have got to have tried it. I don't withhold pudding but natural yoghurt and fruit is given to those who have not eaten at least some of there main.

[mama2three]

cunningly I now cant get the image out of my head of Bunyip '' beating around a linguistic bush!!'' :blush:

[LauraS]

I tend to find that the phrase don't like it actually means 'don't fancy it' in practice. Let's face it, if all food were nutritionally equal we would all happily live on chocolate and cheese (well, I would!). As an adult, eating a spinach salad can be tedious, no matter how scrummy the dressing. However, I plod through because I have the knowledge, hindsight and the acute sense of my own mortality to inform my decision making, something that, despite education, I don't think children can fully appreciate until they are adult.

There are plenty of things that we don't allow children to have any autonomy over. We don't allow them to 'dislike' sun cream, or seat belts, or appropriate language or clothing. Nor do we usually allow the parenting styles off our parents to impact on our setting to the point where it compromises adherence to the regs, the law or our own principles. We don't reason that if a parent has a laissez-faire attitude to discipline in their household we should treat the child similarly, nor do we use capital punishment if parents do, or deny a child sleep when a parent asks. Why should I serve up mechanically reconstituted fried chicken preservative and salt filled breadcrumb encased nutritionally bankrupt lumps to children simply because the parents do?

In my house, I serve one meal and it's either eaten or not. I won't serve anything that a child genuinely dislikes but genuine dislikes are usually only limited to a very few things and a single meal can be served to suit everyone with adaptations most of the time. I will very occasionally cook two meals (.for example, one child doesn't like pasta, because of the texture so if I am cooking something very pasta based I might pop a piece of fish into the oven for her). I often offer choice within my own parameters, ie choice of veg, so might do broccoli and peas but heap the broccoli on the plate of my broccoli loving child who loves it and only offer him a few peas, and vice versa for my pea fan. I might also make a meal more appealing by perhaps serving shepherds pie in little heart shaped ramekins, or cutting sandwiches into stars, or making fruit kebabs. I don't have a menu, as we will often see what we fancy eating that day. I love food, I love cooking and baking and take a great deal of pleasure in seeing the children eat well, and the children are actively involved in growing food, baking our own bread etc. Snacks tend to be small and non-sugar based, so perhaps whole meal crackers, cheese, crudités to avoid spoiling appetites for dinner. I rarely offer pudding, as in my household we only tend to eat it on special occasions, so withholding is not an issue. I don't allow rudeness either. I would be very disappointed if any of the children told me that my cooking was disgusting - that lacks manners and in ungrateful and disrespectful.

I don't force, I encourage, I enthuse, I inform etc, but I don't pander. If children don't eat and are hungry five minutes later I don't tend to be overly sympathetic either - I'm happy that I've offered them the opportunity to eat plenty of something that I know they like, and if they choose not to then that is their choice. I don't tend to have any issues even with children who are fussy at home, and I think it's telling that children will tuck into things here with genuine enthusiasm but will reject the same foods when parents have provided them at home.

[Happy Bunny]

Why aren't we allowed to refuse to give them pudding if they don't eat their dinner.

[Tinkerbell1979]

Why aren't we allowed to refuse to give them pudding if they don't eat their dinner.

No idea but I refuse to give a child a yummy yogurt or yummy piece of fruit if they chose not to eat the meal I provide that I know they like and gave eaten many times before !

[tess1981]

No idea but I refuse to give a child a yummy yogurt or yummy piece of fruit if they chose not to eat the meal I provide that I know they like and gave eaten many times before !

Same here. I don't cook for it to be binned and half hour later hear I'm hungry... If a child does not eat lunch I take it away after plenty of encouragement first to eat it and say now there is nothing until snack time so I don't want to hear you say you are hungry. I tell parents they didn't eat their lunch but did eat their snack.

[Rickers83]

;[\QUOTE=Happy Bunny;1361470]Why aren't we allowed to refuse to give them pudding if they don't eat their dinner.[/QUOTE]

Ofsted said it was for 2 reasons;
1) the pudding should make up part of a nutritionally balanced meal, therefore by withholding it you are denying them part of their required nutrients
2) using food as a reward can cause problems with food later in life & lead to eating disorders

I personally think its a load of pc twaddle, I was denied pudding if I didn't eat all my dinner & all it did to me was made sure I wasn't a spoilt brat who got everything I whined for

[Fitrix]

I tend to find that the phrase don't like it actually means 'don't fancy it' in practice. Let's face it, if all food were nutritionally equal we would all happily live on chocolate and cheese (well, I would!). As an adult, eating a spinach salad can be tedious, no matter how scrummy the dressing. However, I plod through because I have the knowledge, hindsight and the acute sense of my own mortality to inform my decision making, something that, despite education, I don't think children can fully appreciate until they are adult.

There are plenty of things that we don't allow children to have any autonomy over. We don't allow them to 'dislike' sun cream, or seat belts, or appropriate language or clothing. Nor do we usually allow the parenting styles off our parents to impact on our setting to the point where it compromises adherence to the regs, the law or our own principles. We don't reason that if a parent has a laissez-faire attitude to discipline in their household we should treat the child similarly, nor do we use capital punishment if parents do, or deny a child sleep when a parent asks. Why should I serve up mechanically reconstituted fried chicken preservative and salt filled breadcrumb encased nutritionally bankrupt lumps to children simply because the parents do?

In my house, I serve one meal and it's either eaten or not. I won't serve anything that a child genuinely dislikes but genuine dislikes are usually only limited to a very few things and a single meal can be served to suit everyone with adaptations most of the time. I will very occasionally cook two meals (.for example, one child doesn't like pasta, because of the texture so if I am cooking something very pasta based I might pop a piece of fish into the oven for her). I often offer choice within my own parameters, ie choice of veg, so might do broccoli and peas but heap the broccoli on the plate of my broccoli loving child who loves it and only offer him a few peas, and vice versa for my pea fan. I might also make a meal more appealing by perhaps serving shepherds pie in little heart shaped ramekins, or cutting sandwiches into stars, or making fruit kebabs. I don't have a menu, as we will often see what we fancy eating that day. I love food, I love cooking and baking and take a great deal of pleasure in seeing the children eat well, and the children are actively involved in growing food, baking our own bread etc. Snacks tend to be small and non-sugar based, so perhaps whole meal crackers, cheese, crudités to avoid spoiling appetites for dinner. I rarely offer pudding, as in my household we only tend to eat it on special occasions, so withholding is not an issue. I don't allow rudeness either. I would be very disappointed if any of the children told me that my cooking was disgusting - that lacks manners and in ungrateful and disrespectful.

I don't force, I encourage, I enthuse, I inform etc, but I don't pander. If children don't eat and are hungry five minutes later I don't tend to be overly sympathetic either - I'm happy that I've offered them the opportunity to eat plenty of something that I know they like, and if they choose not to then that is their choice. I don't tend to have any issues even with children who are fussy at home, and I think it's telling that children will tuck into things here with genuine enthusiasm but will reject the same foods when parents have provided them at home.

Couldn't agree more with all that! I think we KNOW the children in our care. We KNOW when they are being "fussy", when they are holding out for something better and in some cases when they are using food as a means of control. I personally deny treat foods if I believe children are not eating a meal I know they like and should be hungry for. The children I have know and understand the rules and it seems to work. I do have to swap a couple of food items to accommodate different children's tastes but this isn't a hard thing to do.
Regards veg - no one likes green stuff, but that's life! I keep the veg portions small but they have to try!

[Fitrix]

[QUOTE=Rickers83

Ofsted said it was for 2 reasons;
1) the pudding should make up part of a nutritionally balanced meal, therefore by withholding it you are denying them part of their required nutrients
2) using food as a reward can cause problems with food later in life & lead to eating disorders

I personally think its a load of pc twaddle, I was denied pudding if I didn't eat all my dinner & all it did to me was made sure I wasn't a spoilt brat who got everything I whined for[/QUOTE]

Typical non thought through c@@p from ofsted. There is nothing nutritionally present in pudding that isn't in main meals except sugar!! Sugar is not required in children's diet at all. Fruit yes - but this they get from snack / breakfast etc?

[k-tots]

Would be interesting to hear what an ofsted inspector does at home with their own children x

[AliceK]

;[\QUOTE=Happy Bunny;1361470]Why aren't we allowed to refuse to give them pudding if they don't eat their dinner.

Ofsted said it was for 2 reasons;
1) the pudding should make up part of a nutritionally balanced meal, therefore by withholding it you are denying them part of their required nutrients
2) using food as a reward can cause problems with food later in life & lead to eating disorders

I personally think its a load of pc twaddle, I was denied pudding if I didn't eat all my dinner & all it did to me was made sure I wasn't a spoilt brat who got everything I whined for[/QUOTE]

I agree entirely :thumbsup:

xxx

[Maza]

When I had my inspection I had a child who had only liked pizza, fish fingers etc. We made our own pizzas as our activity that day (did this about once a fortnight anyway) using pitta bread for the base and passata and a variety of toppings (sweetcorn, mushrooms etc) for the children to choose from. The little boy in question usually wolfed down this healthier version of fast food but on Ofsted day he just picked off the cheese and ate that. The inspector didn't bat an eyelid because she could see that healthy/balanced food was on offer. At snack time he was piling his plate with sugar snap peas and I took the plate away telling him that he could have more once he ate what was already on his plate, because like the rest of us I don't want to throw away good food once they have touched/played with it. Again, no issues even though he didn't eat his sugar snap peas. We all know it's 'how' you say something, not 'what' you say.

Funnily enough, I do still give fruit and plain yoghurt if they haven't eaten their savoury food. I personally don't like fruit or plain yogurt so don't see how I am rewarding them! I wouldn't however, give them a piece of chocolate cake if they hadn't eaten their main.

I think it's like anything, common sense and knowing your children informs your judgement. In your heart of hearts, if you know you are doing your best by the child then you are doing fine and some children WILL NOT eat a 'healthy' diet, no matter what we do. We would all like to be part of a 'culture where food is eaten and enjoyed by everyone', but at the same time cannot make/pay for different meals for different families. Simona, I would genuinely like to hear what you would do for a child who will only eat (for whatever reason) fast/processed food and no fruit/veg. I truly don't mean to be rude by bringing up/quoting again, I just want to know if there are any strategies I may have missed. Thanks.

[Starfish007]

I personally would always offer a selection of fruit if children havnt eaten their savoury meal, at least then they've had something x

[bunyip]

cunningly I now cant get the image out of my head of Bunyip '' beating around a linguistic bush!!'' :blush:

Bit suspicious about the juxtaposition of "cunning" "linguist" and "bush" in that sentence. :eek:


:rolleyes:

[bunyip]

Why aren't we allowed to refuse to give them pudding if they don't eat their dinner.

The official line I've had from NHS nutritionists, supported by my local children's centre is that the whole meal should be 'balanced'. Therefore, the pudding either does not belong in the meal at all (if the meal isn't balanced overall) or it should be 'allowed' just as much as the protein, veg, carbs, etc. etc. if it is all in balance. unfortunately this disregards the propensity of children to pick over balanced meals for the bits they like. :(

They all forget that humans (children included) are evolutionarily wired to stuff ourselves with high-energy sugars and fats. It's a survival thing. We need the energy in order to chase and hunt mammoth. Problem is we don't chase enough mammoths, so don't get enough exercise. And we don't need to chase mammoths when we can pop down to the shops for food. Changes in human society have happened faster than evolution (and seemingly a even faster than an NHS nutritionist's brain.) :p

[buzzy bee]

I don't give pudding if they don't eat their main because if they arent hungry for their main then they aren't hungry for pudding. I got sick of all the wasted food.

[cookiesncream]

In answer to the original question Would you let a mindee go hungry if they refuse to eat?

Answer: If they refuse to eat then clearly they are not hungry.

[Happy Bunny]

Well i have always done the rule 'If they don't eat at least half of their dinner, I will NOT give them pudding'

I offer a dinner that is nutritional and that they all have eaten at least once before.

I have always told parents my rule, and they all AGREE with me.

Ofsted can go PICKLE themselves.

I will not change my household rules.

I have brought up 5 children and about 20 minded children like this.

[bindy]

I would not let a child go hungry. Personally I make a choice every meal anyway, but I have lots of children with 2 assistants so able to do so. Most of the food gets eaten and the kids like a choice. I always provide something that I know each child likes. Kids are not fussy eaters, they have likes and dislikes, their taste buds are very different to adults and at the end of the day most teenagers and adults don't live on chicken nuggets and chips! My daughter had an eating disorder when she was ver young, thank god I did not have the attitude most CM have when it comes to eat up or nothing else. She is 6 years old now and eats everything mainly healthy and sometimes not so healthy. If it really bothers you why not ask for a packed lunch/tea. Has a parent I wold rather do that, than my child go hungry and her feeling stressed out at lunch time or you for that matter.

[Hatchlings]

I have been given instructions by mum if lol dont eat half the main meal then no pudding but I can offer fruit after 30 mins if they are still hungry. However no like jelly or ice cream etc. Due to its mums request i follow as parents know & have there own rules. I have snacks of fruit on offer when ever a child wants it, its within view the whole time & they all know can have any they like. The dinner is a healthy balance of 2 dinner chooses taken from the local school dinners menu daily. I run 2 weeks different to there 5 week rota. The children seem to like this.:laughing::jump for joy::laughing:

[bindy]

I have been given instructions by mum if lol dont eat half the main meal then no pudding but I can offer fruit after 30 mins if they are still hungry. However no like jelly or ice cream etc. Due to its mums request i follow as parents know & have there own rules. I have snacks of fruit on offer when ever a child wants it, its within view the whole time & they all know can have any they like. The dinner is a healthy balance of 2 dinner chooses taken from the local school dinners menu daily. I run 2 weeks different to there 5 week rota. The children seem to like this.:laughing::jump for joy::laughing:

Yes I agree with the fruit, I always allow fruit but I don't really do puddings, only yoghurt and fruit! That's pudding to me.

I understand kids have to eat something to get ice cream or chocolate sponge., my argument is making food they just don't like and expecting them to eat it. I always speak to parents when kids are not wanting to eat. Ask for a list of foods they will eat.

[blue bear]

They either eat or they don't.
I offer a balanced diet through the day so no puddings or afters at all, I think it's wrong to always offer something sweet after a savoury,sets up bad habits for life.
Yogurts,fruit etc for snack but not after a main meal.