2 year check, family told a nursery would be better!

[VeggieSausage]

Child with language and communication issue that I had referred to see a health visitor, was told at 2 year check that it was probably as he was with a childminder and would be better for him to be in a nursery.....parents agreed and child will be moving when they find one they like - humph :( 2 mums made redundant this week too - one already given notice.....

[Tracie Morrison]

Child with language and communication issue that I had referred to see a health visitor, was told at 2 year check that it was probably as he was with a childminder and would be better for him to be in a nursery.....parents agreed and child will be moving when they find one they like - humph :( 2 mums made redundant this week too - one already given notice.....

Thats harsh! As long as his needs are addressed through play/socialising surely he would respond any setting - why didnt the Health Visitor suggest some activities for home/setting instead of making an assumption that childminding setting is the cause and nursery would be better!
Bet you're annoyed, I would be. Sending Hugs xx

[Mouse]

Something similar happened to me & I was fuming. I'd identified speech & language delay, which the HV kept saying was nothing. When mum eventually pushed for a referral, the HV told her not to take any notice of what I said as I was just a cm and wouldn't really know anything about it. She told mum to talk about it with the pre-school as they were the ones who would deal with it. This is the pre-school lo had been going to for 18 months & where they hadn't even noticed he has a serious problem. She suggested mum increased his hours at pre-school :mad:

Luckily mum refused and said she was happy where he was. She told the HV he goes to pre-school to get chance to mix in a bigger group, but comes to me for everything else.

[sing-low]

Sorry to hear this Veggie - what rubbish and very unprofessional of the HV.

[caz3007]

It just goes to show hv's have no idea what we do. My nephews wife is training to be a hv, time to properly educate her.

[Simona]

Child with language and communication issue that I had referred to see a health visitor, was told at 2 year check that it was probably as he was with a childminder and would be better for him to be in a nursery.....parents agreed and child will be moving when they find one they like - humph :( 2 mums made redundant this week too - one already given notice.....

If I were in your position I would report this straight away to my EY team as an issue to address immediately
While I appreciate that there maybe cms who could improve on helping children's language development the same goes for nurseries and this is out of order....sad if the parents did not argue with the HV.

In future Education and Health will have to work together as the DfE is changing all the guidance...someone ought to send HVs a copy of the EYFS 2014 and make sure they read page 13-14 (2.5)
I am appalled that a HV can make such statement without prior knowledge of the input a cm is contributing to the child's progress and without initiating a 3 way discussion and support integrated working as referred on page 14 of the EYFS

[VeggieSausage]

Sadly mum has taken all the HV's advice on board and obviously wants to do the best for her child.....HV told her that in a larger group he will have to speak up for himself rather than being with people who are aware of what he wants and doesn't have to try to communicate - totally did not understand the issues with this child at all.....

[Simona]

Sadly mum has taken all the HV's advice on board and obviously wants to do the best for her child.....HV told her that in a larger group he will have to speak up for himself rather than being with people who are aware of what he wants and doesn't have to try to communicate - totally did not understand the issues with this child at all.....

I feel like crying after reading this....or maybe throwing a tantrum would be better to ease the frustration
Yes it is obvious that your input was not sought at all as you would know the child and how he interacts in your setting...very sad really but let's hope the child does well although the HV advice is one that leaves me wondering.

[funemnx]

Wow! That's total rubbish! HV need educating on what a CM can offer - one-to-one attention!

I had a conversation with one of my mum's yesterday - she's a nurse, studying to be a HV. She asked me what my steps are if I notice a child is falling behind in one or more areas of development. From what she tells me a child doesn't see a HV nowadays from 10m until the 2y 3m check in this area unless the parents visit in the meantime. If the child is not in a setting and the parents don't pick it up, nothing is noticed until then! :panic:

[SYLVIA]

I had something similar, where a child here wouldn't even say her name when she first came.HV told mum that she should go to preschool as well as to me as it would help her to develop her speech. But to be honest, I didn't see an improvement from the preschool. But I worked hard with her here making sure she had plenty of time and opportunity to use her voice in lots of different ways and her speech and language was fine by the time she went to school. I feel that if they are quiet children by nature, being in large groups only makes it harder for them to speak up. Sorry to hear about your situation, I'm sure more children will come your way soon

[sarah707]

Regardless of how mum is dealing with the information - this Health Visitor needs re-educating :(

if it was me I would put in an immediate strongly worded complaint to the Health Visitors - and their boss. They cannot trample over childminders like that we are all supposed to be working together.

Poor child will be completely lost in a big setting :(

hugs xx

[smurfette]

I lost one this way too., not sure how the speech therapist thought he would do better with one adult to 12 kids but there you go! I was so upset as he had come on leaps and bounds with me., he visited about three months after he left and was really unclear! Hugs for you xx

[twiggy]

One of my parents was advised by her health visitor at the 2 year check to send her LO to a pre school to increase the number of children he interacts with. I have 6 children most days when I work with an assistant and we go to groups and meet up with other childminders. Thankfully the mum refused as he,is really happy with me, has lots of friends and he is doing really well in my care.

[littlemiss605]

Sadly mum has taken all the HV's advice on board and obviously wants to do the best for her child.....HV told her that in a larger group he will have to speak up for himself rather than being with people who are aware of what he wants and doesn't have to try to communicate - totally did not understand the issues with this child at all.....

Or... He will be totally lost and scared to speak up, therefore not being heard at all. In a noisy environment so not hearing speech sounds quite as clearly? A bit like " turn the tele off while your reading to your child so they can focus on the words clearly and not be distracted". far easier to have quiet time with 3 than a room full of 30? Sheesh... Who trained her? Why are some, possibly many HV s against us??

[watford wizz]

When I did 2 year check training we were told by HV that some are afraid of us doing their job for them/ taking it away. I have had this comment in feed back from 2 HV who have received my checks but in a positive way that we are working together. I am appalled to hear of what this HV has advised and would definitely be writing to complain! So sad for you and the child. I often have had the opposite where HV has advised smaller setting as child is struggling in large nursery. Just don't understand this HV logic??

[Simona]

Come on everyone...this kind of thing has been going on....and on ...and on for years and years with CMs ...the good ones who bother to follow legislation and regulation that is....always the ones ending up with egg on their faces because the so called 'professionals' take no notice on our input or standing in this so called 'professional partnership'

What good will it do to 'complain' about the HV? or educating her? she should know her job and I am sure she does
Complaining means taking on the Department of Health...why not let the EY team who are part of the Education establishment deal with this

Has anyone got a copy of 'The Common Core of Skills and Knowledge'?

that is the document we should be waving under the HV nose...and EY ...not a complaint.....so that all start taking providers seriously and not walk over us...worth reading and keeping with all the documents...it has more value than any other document I have ever come across
Archived or not it is still very relevant and used at Uni all the time

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20120119192332/http://cwdcouncil.org.uk/assets/0000/9297/CWDC_CommonCore7.pdf

[LauraS]

Wow! That's total rubbish! HV need educating on what a CM can offer - one-to-one attention! I had a conversation with one of my mum's yesterday - she's a nurse, studying to be a HV. She asked me what my steps are if I notice a child is falling behind in one or more areas of development. From what she tells me a child doesn't see a HV nowadays from 10m until the 2y 3m check in this area unless the parents visit in the meantime. If the child is not in a setting and the parents don't pick it up, nothing is noticed until then! :panic:

In this area, the 2y check is only carried out if the parents feel it is necessary ie have identified a problem. So a child wouldn't be seen by any medical professional from 9-10m until they start school, potentially. My son was last seen by a hv when he was six weeks old as he didn't get called for a 10m check either.

[Simona]

In this area, the 2y check is only carried out if the parents feel it is necessary ie have identified a problem. So a child wouldn't be seen by any medical professional from 9-10m until they start school, potentially. My son was last seen by a hv when he was six weeks old as he didn't get called for a 10m check either.

That is very interesting but not surprising...it means,once again, that each LA can do as they please and comparable to each inspector using his/her own interpretation of legislation?

The 'Healthy Child Programme' is part of the reforms for the EYFS and include Health and Education and will kick in in 2015 although it is mentioned in EYFS 2014 page 14

I wonder what the point is of having a statutory framework when LAs can decide to bypass it...wish we could do the same!

[bunyip]

Child with language and communication issue that I had referred to see a health visitor, was told at 2 year check that it was probably as he was with a childminder and would be better for him to be in a nursery.....parents agreed and child will be moving when they find one they like - humph :( 2 mums made redundant this week too - one already given notice.....

:( Really feel for you, Veggie. :group hug:

If this health visitor hasn't met you and been to your setting to see how you work, then I'd want a word with their manager to find out how they justify such a judgment with no knowledge of your methods. How do they know that the lo wasn't (or wouldn't have been) worse without the efforts you've already put in? How do they know you're not trying your damnedest and getting no response? - which means the child needs better HV support than simplest the further disruption of moving to a new setting?

I can at least offer 2 pieces of anecdotal evidence, not to show that I'm a wonderful person, but rather to demonstrate that CMs can very well be a good place for developing speech and language.

1. I recently signed for a 3yo to start with me in June. He has already had a few short 'stay and play' visits where mum stays to drink coffee and chat, or we meet for an hour in the park (whilst all the nosey parkers in the village gossip that we're having an affair :laughing:.) Mum said to me how naturally settled he seems already, and she could tell because he talks with me and the other mindees. Then she dropped the bombshell: he hardly said a word for his first 3 months at a group setting (preschool) and, what is more, the staff didn't think this worth mentioning to mum until it came out by accident. :eek:

2. My grandson's erstwhile S&L therapist stopped me (in the pub, of course :rolleyes:) a few weeks ago and asked if I'd consider minding her as yet unborn 1st child next year, after maternity leave, all being well. Flattering, but if a S&L therapist prefers a CM to a nursery, maybe she should have a word with your HV ??? :huh: ???

[wee_elf]

When I was expecting my daughter the health visitor on my team said she would always recommend for children to go to a cm over nursery as they have the opportunity to be heard.

[teacake2]

I had this too, the HV told mum that the child would benefit from a nursery as I was not as well qualified and that I didn't understand the development matters etc. The brilliant nursery was able to achieve wonders with this child - his best achievement with them was - to eat his dinner without tomato sauce on it. So would someone tell me what qualifications are needed for this please? By the way I found out that I was more qualified than 80% of the staff employed by this nursery.

[bunyip]

I had this too, the HV told mum that the child would benefit from a nursery as I was not as well qualified and that I didn't understand the development matters etc. The brilliant nursery was able to achieve wonders with this child - his best achievement with them was - to eat his dinner without tomato sauce on it. So would someone tell me what qualifications are needed for this please? By the way I found out that I was more qualified than 80% of the staff employed by this nursery.

They all achieve this at Bunyip Towers. Had to point out to lo just last week, "no, you're not having @!$*ing tomato sauce on it!" :rolleyes:

This drives me potty, and I seem to have had at least one fussy eater for most of the last 12 months. Typically, the parents do nothing at home but expect my 'healthy eating' policy to wave a magic wand and produce a healthy child with no support at home. My current fussy madam gets her own way at home over food and pretty much everything else as far as I can see. She refuses virtually everything unless it comes out of a tin or is bought at a manky fastfood establishment. Apparently, her gran even lets her put tomato sauce on the tinned ravioli-in-tomato-sauce. :panic:

[Simona]

They all achieve this at Bunyip Towers. Had to point out to lo just last week, "no, you're not having @!$*ing tomato sauce on it!" :rolleyes:

This drives me potty, and I seem to have had at least one fussy eater for most of the last 12 months. Typically, the parents do nothing at home but expect my 'healthy eating' policy to wave a magic wand and produce a healthy child with no support at home. My current fussy madam gets her own way at home over food and pretty much everything else as far as I can see. She refuses virtually everything unless it comes out of a tin or is bought at a manky fastfood establishment. Apparently, her gran even lets her put tomato sauce on the tinned ravioli-in-tomato-sauce. :panic:

Drowning in tomato sauce...priceless!!
Being from a mediterrenean country I always have home made tomato and basil sauce in my freezer...takes about 15 mins to make... which can be used for pasta or whatever takes the children's fancy.
Maybe I should start a new business...bottled Italian sauce and sell it to EY providers.....shipping at a small charge!!
There's a thought :thumbsup:

[loocyloo]

Off topic, but still on the ketchup theme ...

I 'run out of' tomato sauce! I don't like it myself, and so never think to offer it to mindees. If they ask; depending upon what the meal is, I might say yes, but most of the time I say I haven't got any and they rarely ask now!

years ago, a 7yr old boy ( and his mum ) came to tea with the 7 yr old boy I was nannying ... I had cooked roast chicken ... he asked for ketchup ... I said we don't have any. his mum offered to pop out to the shop ( about 10 mins drive away ) to get some! I said no, tea would be cold by the time she got back. she insisted and left ... when she returned child had eaten ALL of his tea, as nanny charge had told him that the gravy was even better than ketchup!!!

[Tracie Morrison]

years ago, a 7yr old boy ( and his mum ) came to tea with the 7 yr old boy I was nannying ... I had cooked roast chicken ... he asked for ketchup ... I said we don't have any. his mum offered to pop out to the shop ( about 10 mins drive away ) to get some! I said no, tea would be cold by the time she got back. she insisted and left ... when she returned child had eaten ALL of his tea, as nanny charge had told him that the gravy was even better than ketchup!!!

:laughing::laughing::laughing: but ketchup on a roast?? ewwwwwwwww!

[Nickidela]

I don't have much faith in health visitors. When DD3 was born she lost weight and was so slow to gain it - the hv either phoned daily or came round to weigh her making me feel really bad that I wanted to continue breastfeeding. DD was finally diagnosed with tongue tie at 9 weeks but those 9 weeks were hell, being made to feel like a terrible mum with no support from them to get to the root of the problem.

[wee_elf]

I also had the tongue tie experience - 7 weeks of hell and 4 different hv's telling me there was nothing wrong, one visit to a feeding consultant and the tongue tie was cut :rolleyes: x

[lisa1968]

Can I just ask.....what about the parents role in this? Surely it begins with them,and the blame shouldn't be laid with the CM.Fed up of us 'minders getting stick for things when ultimately the parents should be doing their bit at home.!!:mad:

[Simona]

Can I just ask.....what about the parents role in this? Surely it begins with them,and the blame shouldn't be laid with the CM.Fed up of us 'minders getting stick for things when ultimately the parents should be doing their bit at home.!!:mad:

You are right ...this is a triangle with cms, parents and HVs but it does not work like that does it?
In addition the EYFS does not say MUST but SHOULD therefore anyone can do as they want and we are left taking the blame

The 2 year old check is a very useful tool for early intervention but it is not used wisely or effectively ...all we can do is flag up the concerns hoping someone takes notice...lets not forget that we are also supposed to support the 'home learning environment' but that's another matter...yes parents must also work with their children, many are too stressed or work long hours so all is not working properly

[hectors house]

I can't remember the exact details now, but at a talk by Penny Tassoni a couple of months ago, she said that children at Nursery sometimes only have 10 minutes of quality one to one communication time and that children are better off in small groups with a childminder.

[Jayse74]

Well this is happening more and more imho!

We had it a few times now. HV's appear to think they are better but I keep asking myself what is it? What is the thing that drives this attitude or belief that a nursery is better?

Uniforms?
Large groups in a purpose building?
Logos outside the building?
Sheer big headed attitude?
Safeguarding?

I mean what is the point making a Childminder jump through every single hoop and over every single fence, to have another professional in some office who never leaves that room decide "No! not good enough, time to get serious and go to a real nursery!"

I keep saying this but this is why I am personally demoralised and feel sick for what the future holds! All what is going on. Even this morning the subject of 2yr olds in school came up again on the tv. Then you get all this stuff about children going to school at 5yrs old wearing nappies. The Daily Fail even suggests 15yr olds cannot use the tiolet lol!

So who's fault is that then? oh yes the parents are not at fault at all are they lol. It is always somebody else :rolleyes:

[Tracie Morrison]

Well this is happening more and more imho!

We had it a few times now. HV's appear to think they are better but I keep asking myself what is it? What is the thing that drives this attitude or belief that a nursery is better?

Uniforms?
Large groups in a purpose building?
Logos outside the building?
Sheer big headed attitude?
Safeguarding?

I mean what is the point making a Childminder jump through every single hoop and over every single fence, to have another professional in some office who never leaves that room decide "No! not good enough, time to get serious and go to a real nursery!"

I keep saying this but this is why I am personally demoralised and feel sick for what the future holds! All what is going on. Even this morning the subject of 2yr olds in school came up again on the tv. Then you get all this stuff about children going to school at 5yrs old wearing nappies. The Daily Fail even suggests 15yr olds cannot use the tiolet lol!

So who's fault is that then? oh yes the parents are not at fault at all are they lol. It is always somebody else :rolleyes:

The problem I think is that people know what goes on in nursery, they know what children do at school... what they dont know is what a childminder does.... so many of my friends have been amazed that I have to do paperwork, that I have to adhere to the EYFS just as I did when I worked in the nursery. I think the common belief is that we are registered Babysitters, and until that changes situations like this will keep occurring :(

[VeggieSausage]

Well today they told me that he will be leaving to go to nursery in September, I told her that I didn't agree with the HV that he was better placed in a nursery to improve his communication. He lacks an ability to have a 2 way conversation is is completely silent most of the time :( he is the most gorgeous boy and I have loved looking after him, such a shame. Not sure if I mentioned in an earlier post that 2 of my mums were made redundant last week and one has already handed in notice, waiting for the other one - blimey you can go from full to having lots of space in a matter of a week!! my dh was made redundant and is now under my feet, sorry unemployed as well.....double humph :laughing:

[Tracie Morrison]

Well today they told me that he will be leaving to go to nursery in September, I told her that I didn't agree with the HV that he was better placed in a nursery to improve his communication. He lacks an ability to have a 2 way conversation is is completely silent most of the time :( he is the most gorgeous boy and I have loved looking after him, such a shame. Not sure if I mentioned in an earlier post that 2 of my mums were made redundant last week and one has already handed in notice, waiting for the other one - blimey you can go from full to having lots of space in a matter of a week!! my dh was made redundant and is now under my feet, sorry unemployed as well.....double humph :laughing:

*sending hugs* what a rubbish week you're having :( Hope things pick up again soon for you! xx