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View Full Version : Will you be joining an agency?



unalindura77
06-03-2014, 06:58 AM
I don't plan to, it has taken huge expense, time and effort to start up this business on my own with most of my guidance coming from here.

I was thinking, what would happen if we all stuck together and didn't join the agencies, then what would happen? What would Truss do?

We should keep campaigning against the agencies, as they are a threat from what I can see.

funemnx
06-03-2014, 07:43 AM
I won't be joining an agency and niether will my local colleagues. We have started a group just for childminders so that we can organise our own training, we will also use the group to share information, swop and lend resources and plan activities - exciting stuff!

rickysmiths
06-03-2014, 07:51 AM
No I won't be and we arrange our training locally anyway.

bernesewalking
06-03-2014, 07:52 AM
I have no plans and neither have my childminding friends, we plan to stick together and like previous poster do our courses and swap info, my early years adviser has said they have organised many evenings for people who are interested in childminding and lately no one is taking it further, I wonder if the talk of agencies is putting them off! Or they hadn't realised the amount of paperwork involved, they probably think we sit on our bums watching Jeramy Kyle every day, there is an increase in cm giving up in my area too.

watford wizz
06-03-2014, 07:56 AM
Big fat NO !!! X

kats
06-03-2014, 08:01 AM
I will never join an agency, if it came to having to join i would leave childminding!

natlou82
06-03-2014, 08:08 AM
I've just gone through the process of registering (awaiting certificate) so I don't need assistance with that! Very much looking forward to being my own boss, and working towards my own personal success. What happens if you join an agency, and that agency gets a bad review? No thank you! Im quite willing to get together with other local childminders like a few of you have mentioned. Don't know how it's ever going to work out cheaper for parents either!

loocyloo
06-03-2014, 08:38 AM
I don't know a single childminder who is planning to join an agency!

I've been doing this job for over 10 yrs ... think I can do it now! I am in a rural area with not many childminders, so no 'group' as such, but I will find my own training as needed. my LA isn't keen on agencies and as one of the consultation documents said that the LAs have a responsibility to any childminder who does not belong to an agency ... the only thing is that LAs will not be given any money to help childminders, so it might be that if we need help from someone at LA, we have to pay them for a visit etc ... I think that would be preferable.

VeggieSausage
06-03-2014, 09:03 AM
We are all sticking together see the Independent Childminders page on Facebook....

Simona
06-03-2014, 09:21 AM
There are CMs who wish to join an agency...or at least are trialling the pilots but we do not know why or have any idea on how they feel as they have never feedback on their experience...maybe they are not allowed to do so? no one knows

Some will attend the Truss meeting with the representing associations later on in March...the 25th to be precise...if the meeting goes ahead that is but so far it is on.

As we all know the trials end in March and then they will be evaluated by an 'independent' body before any recommendations can be put into the EYFS

More info here

Child Minding: 26 Feb 2014: Hansard Written Answers - TheyWorkForYou (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2014-02-26a.188900.h)

At the moment Truss is going out of her way to say agencies are not compulsory...and we will have to wait and see what the revised EYFS says when it comes out in Sept for implementation...it will be updated in April...strangely enough that is also the deadline for the agency consultation which I sincerely hope CMs will input into...not a few but in their thousands

I would also suggest you keep your eyes and ears open to what your LA is doing in terms of training and support to CMs...many, if not all, are waiting for the trials feedback

I also would like to suggest CMs do not close their ears to all the other reforms that are taking place...agencies is just ONE of them....the rest are just as important if not more threatening than agencies......entirely my view of course

Becci26
06-03-2014, 09:28 AM
Nope I will remain independent and as someone else has pointed out if it comes to the stage we HAVE to join I will be leaving and starting something new.

I became my own boss for a reason, I will not be governed by someone else, I worked hard to achieve my 'good' but not quite outstanding Ofsted grade and would not want that jeopardised by an agency!

Nickidela
06-03-2014, 09:39 AM
Hi everyone. As some of you may or may not have read any of my previous posts - I am still awaiting registration, it's been 11 months since I sent my application in - something in my husbands past is delaying it all and driving me mad. Through this entire process I have had no intention whatsoever in joining an agency and have been looking forward to being my own boss. I just wonder - thinking out loud whether an agency would be a route that would help someone like me who is struggling desperately to get registered or whether the agencies would have the exact same rules for registration or whether they'd be a bit more understanding because of playing a heavier role in the runnings of the business. Believe me I do not want to join an agency, just getting frustrated with the system trying to do it alone! X

Simona
06-03-2014, 09:53 AM
Hi everyone. As some of you may or may not have read any of my previous posts - I am still awaiting registration, it's been 11 months since I sent my application in - something in my husbands past is delaying it all and driving me mad. Through this entire process I have had no intention whatsoever in joining an agency and have been looking forward to being my own boss. I just wonder - thinking out loud whether an agency would be a route that would help someone like me who is struggling desperately to get registered or whether the agencies would have the exact same rules for registration or whether they'd be a bit more understanding because of playing a heavier role in the runnings of the business. Believe me I do not want to join an agency, just getting frustrated with the system trying to do it alone! X

No one knows if agencies will make the process easier...nothing has been written in stone as yet....whatever they will do though will be at a cost to any registering CM as the agency will be the 'middleman' or 'broker' or 'agent' doing all the bureaucratic forms...that won't be free or I'll eat my hat!!

Worrying too is the fact they will 'claim' funding and C/Vouchers on behalf of its members...how? if not by taking CMs independence away

So no decisions to be made until we know what is written down

Ofsted seems to be running behind with everything at the moment...I would be patient...someone has reported on Linkedin that the whole of Ofsted was closed down for a training day earlier this week....hard to believe they could be so disorganised.

Mouse
06-03-2014, 10:16 AM
I know of 2 childminders locally who will definitely be looking to join an agency and others who I suspect will. Unfortunately for them there has been no mention of any being set up close by.

Depending how agencies work I actually think it might be a good thing for them.

I don't see any benefit at all to me joining, so have no plans to do so. I am more than happy running my own business, as I have done for many years.

While I understand that agencies are not compulsory at the moment, I do worry that they will take control in a sneaky way. I saw information for one that said they had no plans to take over our businesses, wouldn't match us up with parents etc. Their remit was to provide training and support. Now, that might seem appealing to some people who are otherwise against agencies. It seems relatively harmless compared to the thought of an agency coming in & taking over everything. But I can see people signing up for training & support, then seeing more and more 'services' being introduce - a cm/parent matching service, an accounts service, a payment handing service. Before you know it, they've taken over completely.

Mcgons
06-03-2014, 10:27 AM
I will never join an agency, if it came to having to join i would leave childminding!

Same as this.

Our LA currently supports well with networks and development workers but no-one knows what the future holds for this, hopefully we can continue to support each other locally if the funding gets withdrawn.

Kiddleywinks
06-03-2014, 11:09 AM
While I understand that agencies are not compulsory at the moment, I do worry that they will take control in a sneaky way. I saw information for one that said they had no plans to take over our businesses, wouldn't match us up with parents etc. Their remit was to provide training and support. Now, that might seem appealing to some people who are otherwise against agencies. It seems relatively harmless compared to the thought of an agency coming in & taking over everything. But I can see people signing up for training & support, then seeing more and more 'services' being introduce - a cm/parent matching service, an accounts service, a payment handing service. Before you know it, they've taken over completely.

Totally agree Mouse
Agencies are currently an unknown entity having only just being started up. We all suspect the trials are going to be hailed a fantastic success - regardless of whether they are or not - Truss has no interest in changing her grand master plan, Ofsted are backing her, and so are the DofE if the results of the the last consultation are anything to go by - high percentage against a proposal, well, we're doing it anyway!

It'll take time to get enough agencies set up around the country to cater for the number of childminders, so no point in making it compulsory for existing minders to join one if there aren't any available to join.
In the meantime, withdraw financial support to the LA so training/support is difficult to access for existing Cm's.
Where a need for training/support/new CM's is identified, let one of the companies in favour of agencies know, and let them set up there.
New CM's can only be registered via an agency - there will always be new people wanting to do our job, and newbies won't know any different so are easier to 'condition', especially with the backing of our regulatory body.

Give it 3 years, tops, the law will be changed again and it will become compulsory for all childminders to be attached - I'd bet on it!

Simona
06-03-2014, 11:37 AM
Totally agree Mouse
Agencies are currently an unknown entity having only just being started up. We all suspect the trials are going to be hailed a fantastic success - regardless of whether they are or not - Truss has no interest in changing her grand master plan, Ofsted are backing her, and so are the DofE if the results of the the last consultation are anything to go by - high percentage against a proposal, well, we're doing it anyway!

It'll take time to get enough agencies set up around the country to cater for the number of childminders, so no point in making it compulsory for existing minders to join one if there aren't any available to join.
In the meantime, withdraw financial support to the LA so training/support is difficult to access for existing Cm's.
Where a need for training/support/new CM's is identified, let one of the companies in favour of agencies know, and let them set up there.
New CM's can only be registered via an agency - there will always be new people wanting to do our job, and newbies won't know any different so are easier to 'condition', especially with the backing of our regulatory body.

Give it 3 years, tops, the law will be changed again and it will become compulsory for all childminders to be attached - I'd bet on it!

Unless the DfE has changed its mind recently new Cms have the option of registering with an agency or with Ofsted...that is a clear message
The process is still that new CMs contact their LA for the induction then get on with the rest of the bureaucratic process

If the body who evaluate the trials is truly 'independent' then we should see warts and all...but no one knows who they are...all we know they have little time as the results have to be in by April to inform the EYFS revision and much more

Trialling Agencies are also schools...why would they want to be an agency unless they have a plan in mind?
What is serious is that the agency consultation ends 21 March...how long has the DfE to report on that? not that they will take any notice

Lots of questions have been asked of agencies but pertinent ones have not...all that remains is to continue waiting...not long now
those who attend the Truss March meeting will know more and hopefully share the findings

unalindura77
06-03-2014, 02:42 PM
We are all sticking together see the Independent Childminders page on Facebook....

I'm on there Veggie Sausage! Haven't looked at it lately but will

unalindura77
06-03-2014, 02:47 PM
Totally agree Mouse
Agencies are currently an unknown entity having only just being started up. We all suspect the trials are going to be hailed a fantastic success - regardless of whether they are or not - Truss has no interest in changing her grand master plan, Ofsted are backing her, and so are the DofE if the results of the the last consultation are anything to go by - high percentage against a proposal, well, we're doing it anyway!

It'll take time to get enough agencies set up around the country to cater for the number of childminders, so no point in making it compulsory for existing minders to join one if there aren't any available to join.
In the meantime, withdraw financial support to the LA so training/support is difficult to access for existing Cm's.
Where a need for training/support/new CM's is identified, let one of the companies in favour of agencies know, and let them set up there.
New CM's can only be registered via an agency - there will always be new people wanting to do our job, and newbies won't know any different so are easier to 'condition', especially with the backing of our regulatory body.

Give it 3 years, tops, the law will be changed again and it will become compulsory for all childminders to be attached - I'd bet on it!

This is what worries me :(

unalindura77
06-03-2014, 02:49 PM
Unless the DfE has changed its mind recently new Cms have the option of registering with an agency or with Ofsted...that is a clear message
The process is still that new CMs contact their LA for the induction then get on with the rest of the bureaucratic process

If the body who evaluate the trials is truly 'independent' then we should see warts and all...but no one knows who they are...all we know they have little time as the results have to be in by April to inform the EYFS revision and much more

Trialling Agencies are also schools...why would they want to be an agency unless they have a plan in mind?
What is serious is that the agency consultation ends 21 March...how long has the DfE to report on that? not that they will take any notice

Lots of questions have been asked of agencies but pertinent ones have not...all that remains is to continue waiting...not long now
those who attend the Truss March meeting will know more and hopefully share the findings


Keep us posted Simona and all, I'm still new so don't have the knowledge you all have.




I'M GLAD MOST OF US ARE AGAINST THE AGENCIES

Simona
06-03-2014, 03:02 PM
I have posted this in another thread but worth putting here too as CMs always read posts about agencies

Please take this huge opportunity to do the PLA #EYAgenda survey...it covers ALL the reforms: agencies, Ofsted, schools, qualifications and a section for general comments

There is also the opportunity to comment on each of the other sections....so have your say, we are running out of time to be heard
The survey is confidential so say what you feel is important

The survey is here
https://www.pre-school.org.uk/whats-new/early-years-survey?dm_i=1LR1,28RKQ,BA72IB,84HGI,1

Also featured here
Pre-school Learning Alliance urges practitioners to share their views | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1142565/pre-school-learning-alliance-urges-practitioners-share-views?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

If you are on twitter add #EYAgenda follow @Pre_schoolLA or @under5mag

Share on Facebook or anywhere else you like...email the link to all you know even LAs

The result of the survey will inform PLA EY manifesto for 2014-2017 and I have an interest in it as I am on the Policy Forum shaping the manifesto

It will also be the topic at the conference in June and I hope to be elected to their Board of Trustees to reflect the needs of registered CMs.

cathtee
06-03-2014, 06:51 PM
Give it 3 years, tops, the law will be changed again and it will become compulsory for all childminders to be attached - I'd bet on it!

That we be the time I retire then, and find out if I like to be a lady of leisure :D

Mummits
06-03-2014, 09:39 PM
I saw my DO for the first time in a while today. She had been to an OFSTED briefing and said one of the things that was mentioned was that OFTSTED would be looking to recover the full cost of making an inspection of non-agency CMs - a figure of £300 plus was mentioned. She agreed that this was probably just a ploy to persuade more CMs to join agencies to save OFSTED work. I also asked what was going to be in the new EYFS from April 2014 and she said that had been asked at the briefing too, but they had revealed nothing of any substance.

I don't know if I am more appalled or depressed by all this carry on. I certainly don't want to join an agency, but neither do I see why I should pay £300 or more to be inspected (it's not even as if I have any faith in the quality or equity of the inspection regime so paying for it would just be adding insult to injury). I may also just throw in the towel and do something else if those are the options.

The big problem is getting parents motivated to protest about all this. Those who have a CM they are happy with probably think all will carry on as it is until they no longer need childcare. Maybe it will. But it is the parents of children not yet in any sort of childcare, perhaps not even yet born, who may live to regret this government's meddling with the status quo.

Mouse
06-03-2014, 10:17 PM
I saw my DO for the first time in a while today. She had been to an OFSTED briefing and said one of the things that was mentioned was that OFTSTED would be looking to recover the full cost of making an inspection of non-agency CMs - a figure of £300 plus was mentioned. She agreed that this was probably just a ploy to persuade more CMs to join agencies to save OFSTED work. I also asked what was going to be in the new EYFS from April 2014 and she said that had been asked at the briefing too, but they had revealed nothing of any substance.

I don't know if I am more appalled or depressed by all this carry on. I certainly don't want to join an agency, but neither do I see why I should pay £300 or more to be inspected (it's not even as if I have any faith in the quality or equity of the inspection regime so paying for it would just be adding insult to injury). I may also just throw in the towel and do something else if those are the options.

The big problem is getting parents motivated to protest about all this. Those who have a CM they are happy with probably think all will carry on as it is until they no longer need childcare. Maybe it will. But it is the parents of children not yet in any sort of childcare, perhaps not even yet born, who may live to regret this government's meddling with the status quo.


To be honest, £300 isn't bad compared to some of the figures being mentioned. And if it costs that much to inspect a childminder, how much more must it cost to inspect a nursery when they often send 2 inspectors for a whole day? Would they put their fees up as well?

I haven't been inspected for 5 years, so £300 over 5 years is only £60 a year. A lot cheaper than joining an agency, I would guess. Even if they managed inspections every 3 years, £100 a year isn't too bad compared to what agency fees could be.

Chatterbox Childcare
06-03-2014, 10:30 PM
I don't know one person that has said yes but there is still a lot of discussion. Once Ofsted release their inspection fee I think the discussions will become more indepth.

I also think that new childminders may use them because they will offer an "all round" service. It isn't all about training but if you haven't been there pre changes then you are not going to know that.

Personally it is a NO

Simona
06-03-2014, 10:43 PM
I agree that the figure of £300 is not too bad compared to what we have heard mentioned in the past

Nurseries inspections are well over £1,000...I cannot recall the true figure given by Ofsted itself.... so if we had to pay £300 it is a price worth paying for independence...but again all this is speculation as the registration fee is not set by Ofsted but by the DfE...even Truss confirmed that in one of her recent speeches

It is an anomaly that Cms pay just £35 per year when nannies and those on the Childcare register pay over £100...we had it good for a while but it has to come to an end...for our sakes and survival

Not long before we get to hear how much to inspect an agency...that will be worth waiting for.

The EYFS will be updated in April but will not be implemented until September ....so no one at this stage knows anything but it is clear what will have to be amended judging by what we know:
DBS checks, ratios for schools that do after school care which will be 1:30 and not 1:8 anymore, upping the 2 hrs of informal childcare to 3 hours, giving CMs the option to work in schools and not just home based, reducing bureaucracy for registration for schools, reducing red tape to expand provision, RA requirement will be removed as will be LJs (these are not a requirement at present), LAs duties removed in terms of support and training, assessment for Reception children and...last but not least provision for agencies to enter the so called 'childcare market'.

We must not give up at this stage...we have spoken a thousands words it is really time to be proactive now...we must bang on about funding as we cannot continue to subsidise education or childcare for that matter.

I entirely agree we need parents on board...for the right reasons not just to offer them cheap childcare to make their lives easier.

That is why the PLA survey is so important...it would have been great if it had been opened to parents as well but we must not waste the opportunity to vent our feelings...the ratio issue was pulled off at the last minute so we must keep our hopes alive that something will happen at the eleventh hour...for everyone's sake

Simona
06-03-2014, 10:50 PM
I don't know one person that has said yes but there is still a lot of discussion. Once Ofsted release their inspection fee I think the discussions will become more indepth.

I also think that new childminders may use them because they will offer an "all round" service. It isn't all about training but if you haven't been there pre changes then you are not going to know that.

Personally it is a NO

Agree totally ...it is not just about training that will entice CMs into an agency...it is the package that has to be offered them: peer support, home visits, Quality Assurance, supervision, face to face meetings, help with finances, paperwork, finding business and much more

That is what independent Cms will have to find somewhere else and from an approved source...already there are organizations coming forward offering CMs m'ship in return for training...look no further than National Children's Bureau who have just announced their package today
Many will be looking at business from Independent CMs....keep your eyes open everyone.

Bluebell
08-03-2014, 06:43 PM
I have always said I would never join an agency but I believe they will become compulsory or that we will be priced out of the market if we don't join - ie we will be charged huge inspection fees, training fees, insurance may go up if we are a non-agency childminder. I would join if not joining meant I couldn't be a childminder or couldn't be a viable childminder as there's no point cutting off my nose to spite my face.

However. I'm so cynical of the whole thing I have decided I'd rather leave childminding and am looking into what to do next. The whole thing is a disgrace to be honest and the lack of information is ridiculous - no-one actually knows how the things are meant to work and at the end of the day it will e at the expense of us and the children.

Simona
09-03-2014, 09:39 AM
I don't know one person that has said yes but there is still a lot of discussion. Once Ofsted release their inspection fee I think the discussions will become more indepth.

I also think that new childminders may use them because they will offer an "all round" service. It isn't all about training but if you haven't been there pre changes then you are not going to know that.

Personally it is a NO

I understood that you and Pacey Vice Chair were going to meet Truss as part of the 4 associations meeting which was cancelled and has now been rescheduled?

I also understand that some CMs who are trialling agencies will be going too....so there is interest somewhere out there...what we need is feedback as to how they are finding the trials and why they want to join?

the independent evaluator will then provide more info on models when the trials end in March

I also recall you saying you were going to volunteer for the trials as well.....that was a while back. Did you go ahead? what about Pacey monitoring the trials and helping to set up a 'robust' framework for inspection to ensure quality? is that still going on?

Overall the huge majority are against agencies and so far we have been told they are voluntary.....as I have said and you agree 'training' is not the only reason why cms may want to join an agency...there is plenty of training available ....at a cost of course...with many taking the opportunity to fill the gap LAs are leaving open to train CMs.....but training is not the only thing offered to Agency CMs in a package...the rest is also very important

Despite the growing frustration felt by everybody there is a lot out there that could be shared with anxious CMs in their long wait...I wonder why so much is wrapped up in silence and secrecy?

Bluebell...I think many would agree with you.
Many Cms will wait and bear all this nonsense until the whisper of 'compulsory' hits the air then there will be a huge exodus of CMs....

teacake2
09-03-2014, 05:51 PM
I asked to go on the trial for the agency here (entrust), but couldn't get to the initial meeting, I asked them to let me know details of more meetings, to give me details of what had been said at these meetings, how things were going to work, costs etc, but as yet they have totally ignored my requests for this. I have contacted them a few times and now have given up.
I am desperate for work at the moment and was told that they would help match CMs to parents etc, but it seems that I am on the black list (a bit of a rebel when they were running the network).
So it looks like I won't be joining the network even if it was right for me.
There loss, not mine.
Teacake2

Simona
10-03-2014, 09:09 AM
I asked to go on the trial for the agency here (entrust), but couldn't get to the initial meeting, I asked them to let me know details of more meetings, to give me details of what had been said at these meetings, how things were going to work, costs etc, but as yet they have totally ignored my requests for this. I have contacted them a few times and now have given up.
I am desperate for work at the moment and was told that they would help match CMs to parents etc, but it seems that I am on the black list (a bit of a rebel when they were running the network).
So it looks like I won't be joining the network even if it was right for me.
There loss, not mine.
Teacake2

very interesting as Entrust Education are trialling an agency but I wonder how they were able to run a Network? are they part of the LA or connected to it?

I am not sure if during the trials agencies are 'actually' matching Cms to parents...that will be done when they are set up as it is part of the package....the trials are to work out a business model, how agencies can offer the required package to CMs who join and to establish how they can be inspected

They are building the 'business side' of agencies not the practical one because they do not have members as yet as agencies become the law in Sept 2014 if the C&F Bill is passed in April..

This is how I interpret the whole business and that is why we have been asked to do the consultation on how we want agencies inspected

That is why it is very worrying that all is shrouded in mystery ...but it would be worth listening to those Cms who meet Truss and hear what their trials experience is.

Thank you for sharing

alwaysright
31-03-2014, 07:49 PM
I don't know a single childminder who is planning to join an agency!

I've been doing this job for over 10 yrs ... think I can do it now! I am in a rural area with not many childminders, so no 'group' as such, but I will find my own training as needed. my LA isn't keen on agencies and as one of the consultation documents said that the LAs have a responsibility to any childminder who does not belong to an agency ... the only thing is that LAs will not be given any money to help childminders, so it might be that if we need help from someone at LA, we have to pay them for a visit etc ... I think that would be preferable.

this already happens in our area! if we want a visit from an early years advisor we have to pay!!! i wont be taking that offer up either and i wont be joining any agency like a few others have said i will pack in first! there are childminders i know that i wouldnt want to be associated with in that i wouldnt want to be relying on how there achieve for my business to be a success as i am doing quite well without them thankyou and i dont agree with some of their practises!

loocyloo
31-03-2014, 08:36 PM
this already happens in our area! if we want a visit from an early years advisor we have to pay!!! i wont be taking that offer up either and i wont be joining any agency like a few others have said i will pack in first! there are childminders i know that i wouldnt want to be associated with in that i wouldnt want to be relying on how there achieve for my business to be a success as i am doing quite well without them thankyou and i dont agree with some of their practises!

I'm with you on the other childminder issue!
I would consider paying one of our advisors if I really thought I needed a home visit but hopefully they will be able to help via email or phone call! Our lot are pretty good!

Simona
01-04-2014, 08:14 AM
this already happens in our area! if we want a visit from an early years advisor we have to pay!!! i wont be taking that offer up either and i wont be joining any agency like a few others have said i will pack in first! there are childminders i know that i wouldnt want to be associated with in that i wouldnt want to be relying on how there achieve for my business to be a success as i am doing quite well without them thankyou and i dont agree with some of their practises!

Puzzling that when the LAs were well funded they chose not to support all cms equally creating a clear two tier system with networks and non network cms....Accreditation or otherwise...now that agencies loom and their money is cut they will charge us even for a phone call?

Many cms who had little support from their LA survived and did very well ...even achieving outstanding by themselves...now we are in demand because we are needed for the 2 year old funding

We need to reflect where we want to get support from and at what cost....plenty out there in my view