Sickness and parent doesn't think its sickness - wants to come back tomoz. HELP

[Keeley77]

So, 12mnth old was sick at my house today, all over kitchen table - he was in the middle of eating when he threw up.

Called parent and said that they had been sick, so she collected him - she did ask if he was coughing before he was sick. (he wasn't - although I do wonder if he triggered his gag reflex with a bit of food - which could have possibly caused him to be sick?) my daughter used to do this quite frequently.

Parent has taken child to the Dr this afternoon as also has a cough - Dr said that LO is fine. He hasn't been sick again (apparently).

I think parent wants him to come to me tomoz? what would you do?

I know that I should say for him to stay off for 48 hours - but it obviously isn't a tummy bug as he wouldn't have been wanting to eat in the 1st place? stressing about what to do now?!

Would you let them come back if Dr said they're ok - and they don't seem to have a tummy bug?

[ziggy]

my 13month old mindee came this morning. Mummy said he'd been sick because he drank his bottle of milk too quick. He seemed fine apart from a very runny nose so i took him (no other mindees today).

He has eaten really well all day and apart from wiping his nose alot, he wasnt a problem. No sickness or bad nappies.

I think it is difficult when they are babies but I guess if you take him back this time it will be difficult to enforce the 48hr rule in future

sorry i'm not being very helpful

[kats]

No i wouldnt take him back until 48 hrs have passed, doctors cant really always know if the child has a stomach bug so you then take the risk of passing it round the other mindees and your own family, stick to your policy, i would :)

[sing-low]

Do you have a sickness policy? If it says 48 hours exclusion for sickness then I would follow it, otherwise you run the risk of LO always 'obviously not having a bug'. Unless the GP has done a stool sample, they can't categorically state that there's no bug.

[Keeley77]

Mum took him to check chest rather than about sickness. chest is clear.

mum is complaining that I can't swap days and that she doesn't get paid if she takes time off when he is sick - how would you respond to this?

[KaicosMummy]

I would say you are more than willing to have the child back, if they can bring a signed letter from the doctor stating that is is 100% not a stomach bug, which the doctor will not do without a stool sample. Children do not always lose their appetites with a stomach bug, and in fact neither do I. Stomach bug does not equal stomach pain. I wouldnt have back if it was a sizable amount of sick, and like others have advised, if you take the child back this time then you will have a hard job refusing them next time, your policies are there for a reason, to protect the children and others within your household. Hope that helps x

[KaicosMummy]

You could point out that you also do not get paid if you are off sick....and if you catch a bug she will be without care anyway x

[AliceK]

Mum took him to check chest rather than about sickness. chest is clear.

mum is complaining that I can't swap days and that she doesn't get paid if she takes time off when he is sick - how would you respond to this?

I was in the same position when my DS was a baby, I was a single mum, self employed, so when I had to take time off when he was sick I didn't get paid either. Sorry but that's what parenting is all about. It's tough and it's not your problem. You are sorry but HPA say to exclude for 48 after last bout of sickness. Mum knew all this when she signed your contract.

xxxx

[Emra81]

Very difficult one this as I can see it from both sides...as a childminder, hell no 48 hour rule stands, duty of care to other children etc etc but as a parent, dd went through a phase at around 7/8 months when she would gag and throw up at pretty much every meal as the move to thicker foods and lumps just didn't seem to agree with her. Lasted about a month and luckily I was on mat leave so no poor childcarer had to deal with it, just her mother. No probs now and loves her food but I dread to think what would've happened if I'd been back at work at the time. Sorry, not very helpful in terms of helping you make a decision! I say go with your gut x

[Emra81]

What does Mum do for a living?

[Keeley77]

a manager in an office

[KaicosMummy]

I would say as this is the first instance I would stick with the 48 hour rule. If it becomes something you notice happens around mealtimes then use your discretion. I currently have a little one who is dairy intolerant and they are slowly trying to reintroduce milk into her diet, I know when she has had it as her nappies are looser and she can reflux up milky sick, I dont send home for this. However a couple months back she had 2 nasty nappies and then was sick, proper sick. So I sent home, mum said it was probably milk but I stuck with the 48 hour rule, she didnt end up coming back for seven days as she went home and passed her 'dairy intolerance' round her whole household. My point is you can use your discretion and you can generally tell, but as this child has never done this before I would be wary.......

[lisbet]

I had a mindee who seemed fine all morning. Really tucked into lunch, had a good sleep, woke up, and was sick 7 times in a row and poorly for several more days - so in that case it definitely was a tummy bug :(

I really sympathise with your mindee's mum: I know firsthand how hard it is to have to let colleagues down when your child is ill, and I know how hard it is to lose much needed pay when your child is ill - both from a working parent's perspective, and from a childminder's.

I explain to parents before they start that I will judge colds and things on a case-by-case basis, but stick to Health Protection Agency guidelines for any illnesses on their list.

I hope the situation gets resolved without too much stress x

[tulip0803]

In my previous life as a playworker we had a Mum turn up with a LO less that 1year and she mentioned she had been sick that morning - we asked her to go home as 48 hour rule applied - Mum insisted it was just a bit of milk and asked me to hold baby while she went for a wee. I said I would watch her in her buggy - Mum left begrudgingly and her entire family went down one after the other with S&D over the next few days.

[bunyip]

The HPA ruling on all incidences of diarrhea and/or vomiting is that we must exclude for 48 hours from last episode of diarrhea or vomiting. Simple as. End of.

There is no mention of having leeway to ignore this rule if mum thinks she has an excuse/reason. It's very simple. The HPA does not concern itself with the cause, because the cause is totally irrelevant to the threat to health. Neither will the EHO be interested in the cause if they find you've chosen to accept a D&V child within the critical 48 hour period.

Put simply and brutally, if you're happy to risk being closed down and risk the health and well-being of everyone at your premises, go ahead and take the child. If you want to follow the regulations, exclude for 48 hours this time, next time, every time, and tell mum you are not concerned with the causes (even if she was medically competent to make such a diagnosis.)

I have a longer science-y version of this. If I can find a copy in the mess that is my Windows folders, then I'll post it here shortly.

[bunyip]

Here we go.............. (with apologies to members who've seen this before.)

I would absolutely refuse to have any child with diarrhoea/vomiting until 48 hours after the last episode. The cause is absolutely irrelevant whether it is teething, exam nerves, change of diet, snotty nose, anything- this is frequently overlooked by parents and, sadly, by some childcare workers.

Really this isn't about my policy, your policy, anyone's policy. It's about the welfare of everyone at your setting and about our legal responsibilities. It's not a CM's rules: it's the rules of the Health Protection Agency and every local Environmental Health Officer in the UK. Breaking the 48 hour rule can see you being closed down, sued and you might even end up killing a child.

Here's the science bit (cue Jennifer Aniston smiling and flicking her hair back.) Your body contains more bacteria than it does your own body cells (in fact, only about 10% of your body is really ‘yours’.) In the right place these are quite safe and they do a mighty fine job; in the wrong place they can kill. That's why , when god designed your body, she put your bottom a long way from your face. There's some pretty deadly stuff in your lower intestine, just below your belly button there's a whole colony of E-coli just for starters. The danger with diarrhoea and vomiting is that it can flush a lot of this 'bad' bacteria out of the body and (via hands, proximity or even airborne transmission) into your food chain with very nasty, potentially fatal results.

Yes, parents are going to get annoyed. That's when we have to be firm and explain that we are legally obliged to exclude under guidance by Health Protection Agency and Food Standards Agency. They can close you down for non-compliance, and that will leave all your families up an appropriately-named creek. I can only suggest you make it clear that your policy isn't just a personal decision: it's a reflection of a legal obligation to keep your clients' children alive. Good luck.

[lisbet]

Bunyip, you can re-post that as many times as you like; not only is it eminently sound advice, but it always makes me chuckle! :laughing: I can see a writing career in your future...:thumbsup:

[gef918]

My son came down with a sickness bug this weekend. I've had to close down for 3 days. Two of those were days I was due to have a temporary child (only 2 weeks care) for the first time. Felt REALLY bad saying to Mum that I couldn't have her child, since she found it difficult to arrange alternative care. However, I know that it's best for everyone - if lo got sick, he would be off pre-school the rest of the week; mum could get ill and miss work herself, etc. I hate losing the money too (over 1/3 of my income this month just from those 3 days!) :(

Stick to your policy. It's in the best interests of everyone!