We are worth it!

[buzzy bee]

Does anyone else get angry when people keep going on about how expensive childcare is?

They're supposedly your most "treasured possessions" so isn't paying someone to care for their every need, love them, keep them alive etc etc while you're at work worth every penny??

Rant over!

[buzzy bee]

*penny not someone!

[buzzy bee]

P e n n y - not quite sure what my phone is doing!

[tess1981]

i hate when people complain were i am from (n.Ireland) about the price..
i work 8am til 5.30 and have a set fee of either £22 or £25 a day depending how many days a week the parent books.
this includes all food, snacks and drinks (except formula) school runs are also included... although if the child at nursery i still charge full fee for the day as i drop off and collect
and also if they off any day from nursery the parents are still just paying a daily non changable rate, saving confusion.
children get breakfast if needed am and pm snack and cooked dinner.
i entertain them, go to parks/walks,provide resources, pay insurance, provide light and heat and need a wage at the end of the week...............
but some parents say its sooooooo expensive :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:
btw the ones who complain the most are usually the ones who claim up to 70% of their childcare costs through tax credits....

[rickysmiths]

Gosh Tess that is so cheap my fees are at least double that for a day now.

[tess1981]

Gosh Tess that is so cheap my fees are at least double that for a day now.


but the parents still complain.... most registered childminders in my area are that...
a creche is about £30 a day per child... most show parents the price range in England see what they say...

[bunyip]

P e n n y - not quite sure what my phone is doing!

Your phone is fine. This is an auto-editorial throw-back to certain "issues" surrounding a certain 'She-Who-Must-Never-Be-Named' (and her various re-incarnations.) :rolleyes:

[buzzy bee]

Your phone is fine. This is an auto-editorial throw-back to certain "issues" surrounding a certain 'She-Who-Must-Never-Be-Named' (and her various re-incarnations.) :rolleyes:


Ah ok, thanks... well that kind of makes sense... although I have no idea who or what you're talking about! :laughing:

[unalindura77]

Your phone is fine. This is an auto-editorial throw-back to certain "issues" surrounding a certain 'She-Who-Must-Never-Be-Named' (and her various re-incarnations.) :rolleyes:

bril...

I haven't even been on here for that long and even I have heard of her :D

[buzzy bee]

Tell me tell me!

[Simona]

Does anyone else get angry when people keep going on about how expensive childcare is?

They're supposedly your most "treasured possessions" so isn't paying someone to care for their every need, love them, keep them alive etc etc while you're at work worth every someone??

Rant over!

We are worth every 'tuppence' I think! :thumbsup:
It's a game of words and politics!

[bunyip]

We are worth every 'tuppence' I think! :thumbsup:
It's a game of words and politics!

Oh dear. A colloquialism well worth steering clear of. :blush:

[Simona]

Oh dear. A colloquialism well worth steering clear of. :blush:

But appropriate to this conversation...so lets be colloquial! :thumbsup:

[yummyripples]

I don't think anyone doubts that we are worth it. I think the problem is that people expect something for nothing. Child tax credits are great but they have given people a sense of entitlement.
Years ago we didn't have any help with childcare so we just had to cut our cloth. People don't think they should do that. They think that they work so they should reap the benefits such as nice clothes and holidays.
When I was growing up we didn't have holidays or nice clothes but my parents paid the bills and we were clothed, fed and warm. Mum didn't work, dad did. I think after a while child benefit came in but other than that we didn't get help.
I have always worked when I had my children and when number 3 came along I could have stayed at home at got extra benefits but I decided to set up as a childminder.
Unfortunately society today seems to be 'what am I entitled to' rather than ' what can I do to help myself'

[bunyip]

I agree absolutely with Yummyripples.

MOG alert. :rolleyes:

I grew up with a single mum who held down multiple jobs to feed and clothe us. TV was a luxury item and I was 16 before we had a telephone (on a party line.)

Nowadays, luxury goods are seen as essentials to which people have a 'right' - then they start thinking about stuff like heating bills, childcare, etc. I get sick and tired of manicured mums with new several new phones a year, who can find money for cars, holidays, tattoos, etc. moaning about the money they've had to borrow for Christmas, let alone the cost of a childcarer. :angry:

Tbh, I doubt if there is a solution to the cost of childcare. It wouldn't matter if wages went up or childcare was 100% state-funded. All the extra disposable income would be sucked up by greedy landlords and inflate the private housing market, which is what happened over at least the last 30 years, every single time people have had more money to spend. :mad:

[yummyripples]

But as with any business there are some great landlords.
A lot of landlords have mortgages to pay which the rent barely covers.
Then you have the problem of none paying tenants which cost a fortune to get out and you very rarely get your money off them.

[Simona]

Yummyripples...you say 'I don't think anyone doubts we are worth it'......we ourselves think we are a bargain to parents and worth the fees we charge but not everyone thinks on those lines as we often read.

When we look at any research or survey from the Think Tanks and Charities, with a vested interest, all we hear is that mothers 'do not think it is worth going back to work '....'they are being priced out of work'...the take up for free education is not at 100% which has prompted the 'stay at home mums' to argue that they do not want it because they feel their children are best cared at home

There are a few research out now and we await with baited breath the new one by Family and Childcare Trust out beginning of March.
another bashing at the cost of childcare, another request for the govt to invest in EY, another comparison at the cost of nurseries and CMs, another call for mothers to access 'high quality affordable' childcare but I bet there will be no mention that part of the childcare is a subsidy by the very women...mothers themselves....who are providing the care while trying to make a living and compete in the so called childcare 'market'
I think it is a matter of politics and winning votes in 2015 and, honestly, some of the research is hypocritical.

Maybe the time has come for CMs to start charging fees that reflect the service we offer rather than a flat fee all inclusive of outings, home cooked meals, petrol and various visits at Stay and Play and much more...
no other provider offers what CMs do, any extras are clearly paid in 'addition' and often impossible for parents to refuse to pay because it is embedded in the nursery daily provision...I refer to those nurseries that charge for ...say...a music lesson on a Tuesday...parents have no choice but to pay even if they are not interested in that

Other countries, often referred to and visited by politicians, manage to get an effective childcare policy in place ...when we are going to learn from them is very unclear.

We all know we are worth it...parents couldn't get a dog walker or babysitter at the same rate.... but there is a difference with being taken advantage of....and that is exactly what the govt is doing and why they continue to interfere disregarding our opinions.

[Simona]

Here is another research just published

http://ippr.org/publication/55/11899/childmind-the-gap-reforming-childcare-to-support-mothers-into-work

[bunyip]

But as with any business there are some great landlords.
A lot of landlords have mortgages to pay which the rent barely covers.
Then you have the problem of none paying tenants which cost a fortune to get out and you very rarely get your money off them.

Point taken. What I'm really saying is this: if families got free childcare, a lot of the extra money they have would only serve to inflate the already bloated property market. Previous economic booms have seen people sinking money into property, and over-stretching their mortgage-borrowing in an attempt to stay with the game in a climate of rapidly-rising house prices. Then comes the inevitable bust (essential to the operation of Late Capitalism) and people are left with stagnant incomes but excessive long-term debts.

Then they turn round and say that essentials such as childcare are over-priced. :mad:

[Simona]

If people....I assume we are talking about parents so mothers and fathers or partners in a relationship.... have sank their money into houses and over stretched themselves ....how come the cost of childcare only ever comes up as an issue for mothers?
are fathers not affected? if mothers are priced out of childcare why not fathers?

[bunyip]

If people....I assume we are talking about parents so mothers and fathers or partners in a relationship.... have sank their money into houses and over stretched themselves ....how come the cost of childcare only ever comes up as an issue for mothers?
are fathers not affected? if mothers are priced out of childcare why not fathers?

A whole host of reasons, which mainly come down to social context and gender politics.

For one thing, it's far more likely to come up on Nutmums and the Daily Mail's Wimmins page, than in conversation at the working men's club.

Also, the historic gender roles tend to assign childcare to women, so paying for it only becomes an issue when mum goes out to work (or comes off maternity and goes back to work.) I'm not suggesting this is ethically right, just how it is.

I firmly believe this is part of the reason why such wildly inaccurate figures are quoted in relation to the cost of childcare. Hence headlines such as "Childcare takes up 25% of families' income" should really read more like "childcare takes up 25% of the mum's income, but not taking into account the fact that dad earns too, he probably earns more than mum, and without considering tax credits, childcare vouchers, funded hours, holidays, and all the other stuff like meals, outings, etc. the children get whilst they're at the CM's." :mad:

I confess the latter sentence would make for a rather clumsy newspaper headline. :rolleyes:

[Koala]

I often think it's the expectation of today's society and their needs - basic needs seem to be far above the familiar Mazlow theory and maybe we should shake up the pyramid maybe we should add several new stages to bring the theory up to date?: Car, phone,computer, internet, holidays, nights out, take aways, fags and drink - these seem to come first for a lot of people and a basic expectation for life along with shelter and food and no longer a luxury.

Yes, I am an old git :laughing: and getting older :laughing::laughing: I can remember growing up with one fire in the living room, bathing once a week and sharing the bathwater, never having take aways, phone, car, holidays etc... etc..... but I have all these things now and expect them, but I pay for them and expect to pay for them the same as I expect to pay for my children, their needs and care and I don't expect others to pick up the bill and that's why I couldn't afford anymore children than what I have. Sometimes I feel that some parents expect that they should have everything and then more - sometimes I get the feeling that some parents feel they should not be responsible for the cost of their child!! They want children but don't want to pay for their needs. And others in society should help them out.

Don't get me wrong, yes the 'gap' does need closing for everyone but each individual has to take responsibility and that means the parents too (more so). Every child has a right to be cared and provided for and preferably by their parent and not society. In an ideal world - I know. :thumbsup:

[Simona]

Bunyip....I take what you say ...nonetheless it is infuriating to read these regularly churned out research which state the obvious...childcare costs are rising
Well we knew that.....but neither Truss et al or these people actually look at the 'reason' why...or include providers' opinions or evidence that would make it easier to look for a solution.

I fail to understand how universal childcare would solve the problem but then I am not an economist only a simple CM juggling a small business and getting truly fed up with the scales tipped in favour of mothers and politicians.