Looking after a friends child for just expenses?

[samanthadebra]

Hi all,

I am a pre-reg and it is taking ridiculously long for my application to go through (I applied in November). The problem I am about to face is that back in November when I initially applied, I was promised it would take a maximum of 12 weeks, and I (stupidly) promised a friend that I could start childminding her two girls from the last week of March. Now I am worried as my husband's DBS still hasn't come through and haven't even had my pre reg visit yet, and we are getting closer and closer to the date I agreed to take her children. She has told her boss she will be returning to work on that date and has got herself organised around this.

I was wondering if I could get advice on the best way to go about having her children before I am registered? This is not an attempt to childmind without bothering to register, and I'm not trying to jump through loop holes, I just really need to help my friend out for the (hopefully) short run while I tie things up with my registration. I don't want to do anything illegal to compromise my future career.

I am aware I can have them if I take them on for free, which I have said I am prepared to do, but my friend isn't having any of it.
She said she wants to cover my expenses (being food: breakfast lunch and dinner, snacks, drinks, activities like painting colouring etc as well as trips out and to cover my fuel, nappies, wipes and milk).
Now I am unsure if she gives me money for these expenses if I am doing wrong? And if not, how much would you accept as expenses? I know she would throw way too much expenses money at me if she could, which I don't want, I would want to take a genuine amount so as not to make a gain and so it's all legal?
How much do you think would be genuine expenses for one 9 month old and one 28 month old?

I am fully aware that I won't be able to be insured etc which I explained but this is a friend and she is happy with that.
(Sorry for long post)

Thanks!!!

[FussyElmo]

If you accept any sort of esxpenses you will be being paid for childcare. Which with no insurance leaves you in a difficult position if an accident were to happen.

I know people do look after children before they are registered to guarantee the place but it has to be free of charge.

Im not sure who told you 12 weeks but from experience it can take considerably longer especially if the dbs/ss services check drag their feet. Have you finished your childminding course yet?

[samb]

She can bring their food, milk, nappies etc as this isn't payment to you or for you or for your children purely her children's items. Can you just not do outings that you would have to pay for until you're registered? Otherwise look after them in their house as their nanny?

[lisbet]

I agree that nannying at her house would be the safest option until you are registered x

[hectors house]

Mother could bring all the children's meals, snacks, milk etc and give you money in a sealed envelope eg: £2 for you to take children to toddlers - you hand the money over in the envelope, you haven't touched the money - just delivered it to someone else. There is still another 4 weeks to go until the end of March, so hopefully things will be progressing by then.

[Mouse]

If you look at the fact sheet, point 7, it says that you must be registered if you receive payment, even if it just towards the costs involved, eg. Food.

Ofsted | Factsheet: childcare - Registration not required (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/factsheet-childcare-registration-not-required)

[sing-low]

Can't get to the exact wording now bit the childminding for friends fact sheet says you can receive 'goods and services' instead of payment. This only applies to friends. The example given is a bag of shopping. Could you ask Mum to buy you some resources you'll need for childminding (not for her children specifically but in general) eg a highchair or some toys? Although that's my interpretation of the fact sheet.

[Mouse]

Can't get to the exact wording now bit the childminding for friends fact sheet says you can receive 'goods and services' instead of payment. This only applies to friends. The example given is a bag of shopping. Could you ask Mum to buy you some resources you'll need for childminding (not for her children specifically but in general) eg a highchair or some toys? Although that's my interpretation of the fact sheet.

I read it the other way round. You cannot accept "reward" and a bag of groceries would count as reward.

Ofsted | About the two early years and childcare registers (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/early-years-and-childcare/for-childminders/regulating-early-years-and-childcare/about-two-early-years-and-childcare-registers)

This says you MUST register if you look after a child for reward and reward does not have to be money, it can be someone giving you food in return for you looking after their child.

[samb]

Surely if she's only accepting food for those children it is no reward for her and so is fine? Although I'd still prefer to just nanny - so much easier until you're set up. Otherwise you will have to tell the mum you will let her know when your certificate comes through

[Glitter]

Would it be possible to look after the children for free until you are registered. Then once you are registered charge a non refundable retainer fee to cover any expenses you would have incurred.

[chriss]

dare I say it, but who would know if she did pay you ?

[gef918]

Start as you mean to go on - by following the rules of registration.

I suggest nannying until you are fully registered.

[FussyElmo]

dare I say it, but who would know if she did pay you ?

Apart from the fact she would be acting illegally :(

If she was to accept any sort of expenses it would have to be declared to the tax man. So you are setting in motion that you are self employed and actually working.

[bunyip]

Apart from the fact she would be acting illegally :(

If she was to accept any sort of expenses it would have to be declared to the tax man. So you are setting in motion that you are self employed and actually working.

I too was offered money to do illegal minding before I was registered. I refused. I expect a lot of us are offered money and a lot of us refuse, so I don't regard myself as at all special in this matter.

So, who would've known if I'd accepted the money? Well, most importantly to me, I would've known.

Maybe I'm old and outdated, but I just don't believe in 'The Eleventh Commandment.' :(

[sing-low]

Curiouser and curiouser (or perhaps not as we're talking about Ofsted!). I thought I'd found the "Childminding between friends" document. Ofsted fact sheet 100108 but it appears to be no longer available on the Ofsted website. It's in my downloads. I think I downloaded it around January 2013. It states:

You do not need to register with us if your friend gives you goods or services in exchange for childcare. Goods and services are things like repairing your friend’s washing machine or car; or buying a bag of groceries.

But as this guidance is no longer available, my guess is that it no longer applies. Does anyone know? How do you find out when Ofsted has withdrawn or replaced guidance via it's fact sheets?

Edited to add: The fact sheet "Childminding for Friends' is still available via the Forum in Free Resources. This isn't the first form/document to go 'missing' from the Ofsted website recently, if I remember rightly. Wasn't the EY2 form no longer available?

[cloud9]

Have you considered just giving ofsted a call, explanation the situation and the dates and I'm pretty sure they will try to sort your registration out

[jackie 7]

Just do a nanny contract and work from her home until you are registered.

[amyp]

You can charge for 2 hours. And I don't think there is anything to say you can't charge £20 an hour? Or go to her house- the you are a nanny no a childminder. I had the same problem!

[Jiorjiina]

Much safer option to just nanny at their house until your registration is complete. Plus you can get nanny insurance. If something happens to hold up your registration process (and mine took nearly a year to get completed, so it does happen) at least that way you could be working, being paid and getting experience until you're legally registered.