Speechless (for once!)

[Shamai]

I recently got approached by a parent at my daughter's school asking how she could become a childminder. I gave her all the information I had regarding contacting LA, doing the CYPOP5 course, paediatric first aid, CRB check etc. This morning she came storming up to me because she hadn't realised how much work was involved in the CYPOP5 course - she said each of the questions had different tasks to complete. She thought she only had to answer 7 questions in 8 weeks to become a childminder :panic: She said there's no way I'm going to complete it, its too involved and she had just wasted £145. I was so flabbergasted that she thought it was only 7 questions and not 7 sections to complete the course, I just said "Oh that's a shame" and walked away. Unbelievable :doh: :laughing:

[shortstuff]

OMG that is unreal lol

[AliceK]

TBH that doesn't surprise me, I don't think the majority of people realise how much is involved in becoming registered not to mention how much is involved once you are actually doing the job.

xxx

[kellyskidz!]

Came storming over to you because she had to do a bit of work in order to set up a business? I would have been furious, you didn't write it, its nothing to do with you and its not your fault she's lazy
Obviously this job isn't for her if she's annoyed about a bit of online learning and it has her in a flap x

[wee_elf]

Well thank goodness she wont be going ahead because she really doesn't seem to be the type of person who should be responsible for children! xx

[Shamai]

To be honest, I think she thought it would be "easy money" - defo not due to love of children and helping them to learn and develop. I think the local kids/parents have had a lucky escape! She was inferring that I had not given her indepth information beforehand but she has been "reading" the online course for nearly two weeks - hence wasting two weeks study time. Laughable really but very true that people still do not realise what we do, how we get there and why we do it!!

[caz3007]

I was talking to a mum at toddlers who went on a pre reg course and she said she hadn't realised cm did the same as nurseries

[SYLVIA]

Perhaps all parents looking for childcare should be told how much goes in to becoming a childminder then maybe they will stop complaining about how much it costs to have their child cared for

[clare83]

I recently got approached by a parent at my daughter's school asking how she could become a childminder. I gave her all the information I had regarding contacting LA, doing the CYPOP5 course, paediatric first aid, CRB check etc. This morning she came storming up to me because she hadn't realised how much work was involved in the CYPOP5 course - she said each of the questions had different tasks to complete. She thought she only had to answer 7 questions in 8 weeks to become a childminder :panic: She said there's no way I'm going to complete it, its too involved and she had just wasted £145. I was so flabbergasted that she thought it was only 7 questions and not 7 sections to complete the course, I just said "Oh that's a shame" and walked away. Unbelievable :doh: :laughing:

Do you know if existing childminders have to complete the CYPOP5 or just new ones? I registered 2 years ago

[bunyip]

I recently got approached by a parent at my daughter's school asking how she could become a childminder. I gave her all the information I had regarding contacting LA, doing the CYPOP5 course, paediatric first aid, CRB check etc. This morning she came storming up to me because she hadn't realised how much work was involved in the CYPOP5 course - she said each of the questions had different tasks to complete. She thought she only had to answer 7 questions in 8 weeks to become a childminder :panic: She said there's no way I'm going to complete it, its too involved and she had just wasted £145. I was so flabbergasted that she thought it was only 7 questions and not 7 sections to complete the course, I just said "Oh that's a shame" and walked away. Unbelievable :doh: :laughing:

CYPOP5 = about 10% (?) of a supposedly A-level equivalent course.
Safeguarding: 1-day Death By Powerpoint talk-through by my LA
Food Safety level 2: allegedly equivalent to an O-level; in reality, it's what we already know if we haven't yet poisoned our family and friends.
Paediatric First Aid - 6 hours content stretched over 12 hours in a course which is actually designed to be passable by the funkshunally illyttarit.

Not exactly mind-taxing stuff, is it? :huh:

...and this mum wants to set up a business looking after other people's children. :panic:

[tulip0803]

Do you know if existing childminders have to complete the CYPOP5 or just new ones? I registered 2 years ago

Cypop5 is a name given to some childminder pre-reg courses - your LA may have had a different name. Ours was still calling it ICP (Introduction to Childminding Practice) until a couple of years ago

[clare83]

Cypop5 is a name given to some childminder pre-reg courses - your LA may have had a different name. Ours was still calling it ICP (Introduction to Childminding Practice) until a couple of years ago

Thanks for clearing that up, I was worried then for a min! Does anyone know if there is any refresher training which childminders have to do once registered. I know 1st aid is every 3 years, is there anything else I need to do? I have heard about don't cm saying their safeguarding it out of date?

[Shamai]

Thanks for clearing that up, I was worried then for a min! Does anyone know if there is any refresher training which childminders have to do once registered. I know 1st aid is every 3 years, is there anything else I need to do? I have heard about don't cm saying their safeguarding it out of date?

Safeguarding training should be done every 3 years too x

[rickysmiths]

Perhaps all parents looking for childcare should be told how much goes in to becoming a childminder then maybe they will stop complaining about how much it costs to have their child cared for

Now there is a thought! I do show my parents my ever growing Training Folder and most are very surprised I have done so much. I think they think it is babysitting in our own homes.:laughing:

[rickysmiths]

Do you know if existing childminders have to complete the CYPOP5 or just new ones? I registered 2 years ago

It is the new Introduction to childminding and is one of the big Units of the Level 3 Diploma Children and Young People's Workforce. The idea was that at least doing this you then had effectively completed on of the big units if you carried on and completed the full Level 3.

When I di my Level 3 Diploma 2 years ago CYPOP 5 took me 8 hours from start to finish.

[Rick]

It is the new Introduction to childminding and is one of the big Units of the Level 3 Diploma Children and Young People's Workforce. The idea was that at least doing this you then had effectively completed on of the big units if you carried on and completed the full Level 3.

When I di my Level 3 Diploma 2 years ago CYPOP 5 took me 8 hours from start to finish.

I didn't have to do the CYPOP5 unit for my level 3 as I would have completed it within 2 years of having done the ICP course. All I had to do was upload my certificate to sign it off

[wee_elf]

CYPOP5 didn't take me long, a few evenings. The most time consuming part was developing the policies, but I would have had to do that anyway :-) x

[primula]

Sadly I still think a lot of people still see us as babysitters, I was once asked when my youngest started secondary school, if I was going to get a proper job??? AND this was by a drop-in worker!! The look on my face soon shut her up! I think it is time to raise our profiles!
Do you find sometimes that in a social setting when asked what you do, you get a look like oh is that all??

[bunyip]

I don't think CMs should get too bothered by this. Everyone I know who works from home gets the "yes, but it's not a proper job is it?" thing. That's regardless of whether they're CMing, manufacturing wrought iron in a home workshop, or devising software systems for businesses. If you can stroll into the kitchen and put the kettle on when the rest of the world are commuting to work (drawn inexorably like lemmings to the cliff) then it isn't proper work.

As for the social setting question, the response I usually get is, "isn't that a strange job for a man?"

The temptation is always to come back with, "yes, but if mums like you stuck to your 'proper job' in the kitchen*............" :rolleyes:


*I hasten to add (before I get a Suffragette bomb through my window) that I don't believe this, but I do believe prejudice works both ways.

[Simona]

I recently got approached by a parent at my daughter's school asking how she could become a childminder. I gave her all the information I had regarding contacting LA, doing the CYPOP5 course, paediatric first aid, CRB check etc. This morning she came storming up to me because she hadn't realised how much work was involved in the CYPOP5 course - she said each of the questions had different tasks to complete. She thought she only had to answer 7 questions in 8 weeks to become a childminder :panic: She said there's no way I'm going to complete it, its too involved and she had just wasted £145. I was so flabbergasted that she thought it was only 7 questions and not 7 sections to complete the course, I just said "Oh that's a shame" and walked away. Unbelievable :doh: :laughing:

Maybe this parent will now opt to look after children without having to register or know anything about safeguarding or child development?

Truss has opened the floodgates and removed 'inconvenient' red tape and will put a stamp of approval on unregulated childcare both from parents and schools...and eventually from agency cms who will be stripped of their burdensome Ofsted registration and URN!

[FussyElmo]

I don't think CMs should get too bothered by this. Everyone I know who works from home gets the "yes, but it's not a proper job is it?" thing. That's regardless of whether they're CMing, manufacturing wrought iron in a home workshop, or devising software systems for businesses. If you can stroll into the kitchen and put the kettle on when the rest of the world are commuting to work (drawn inexorably like lemmings to the cliff) then it isn't proper work.

As for the social setting question, the response I usually get is, "isn't that a strange job for a man?"

The temptation is always to come back with, "yes, but if mums like you stuck to your 'proper job' in the kitchen*............" :rolleyes:


*I hasten to add (before I get a Suffragette bomb through my window) that I don't believe this, but I do believe prejudice works both ways.

Totally agree.

I help out another mum on the PTFA and she runs a successful company from home. However the PTFA expect her to just be able to drop things and go and photocopy something or shopping I will pick you up at 430 but I dint finish till 6. Ask Fussy no cant she has children - go figure :rolleyes:

[Simona]

Sadly I still think a lot of people still see us as babysitters, I was once asked when my youngest started secondary school, if I was going to get a proper job??? AND this was by a drop-in worker!! The look on my face soon shut her up! I think it is time to raise our profiles!
Do you find sometimes that in a social setting when asked what you do, you get a look like oh is that all??

Sadly a lot more people will return to see us as glorified babysitters running around in schools and helping out in their after schools clubs while being paid well below what we can earn now because we will be caring not educating anymore.

It is very sad that Cms inclusion in the EY sector only lasted from the introduction of EYFS 2008 and will end when EYFS 2012 is revised to strip us of the 'educators' role and confine us back to care only and the kitchen!

[bunyip]

I'm happy enough to be seen as a "babysitter" by any parent who'll pay my fee and pay me the ultimate compliment of trusting me with their child. :)

I have no need for the whole 'status' ego thing.

[alex__17]

Yes I didn't realise before the pre reg meeting that childminders did the same as nurseries, but it made me want to do it more, and I tell all parents what we do too, same as a nursery but in a smaller more personal setting, I don't think enough people know that and they should

[Simona]

My personal view is that being carers and educators is not a 'status'....it is a role and one which CMs have fought for a long time to achieve by inclusion and equality with preschools and nurseries....
I do not personally see the connection with the 'ego' otherwise would it mean that 96,000 providers are doing it for egotistic reasons?

[bunyip]

My personal view is that being carers and educators is not a 'status'....it is a role and one which CMs have fought for a long time to achieve by inclusion and equality with preschools and nurseries....
I do not personally see the connection with the 'ego' otherwise would it mean that 96,000 providers are doing it for egotistic reasons?

This one isn't. :)

[shortstuff]

I'm happy enough to be seen as a "babysitter" by any parent who'll pay my fee and pay me the ultimate compliment of trusting me with their child. :)

I have no need for the whole 'status' ego thing.

Happy to agree with you on this :-)

[bunyip]

I don't presume to speak for 96,000 providers.

I do know that most the ones with whom I am familiar are sufficiently secure in themselves and content to do a :censored: good job without the need for a label, badge, status, call it what you will. And most would rather be seen as different to preschools and nurseries, rather than the same.

I wonder how many have "fought" to become mini-nurseries. :huh: How many more have been dragged along by people with "I know what's best for you" agendas or stood by powerless, knowing they've just had more and more arbitrary requirements and unnecessary Ofsted/regime expectations thrust upon them for political ends, rather than being able to concentrate on caring for children and offering them what little of a childhood remains to them since they became political footballs.

[Simona]

I don't presume to speak for 96,000 providers.

I do know that most the ones with whom I am familiar are sufficiently secure in themselves and content to do a :censored: good job without the need for a label, badge, status, call it what you will. And most would rather be seen as different to preschools and nurseries, rather than the same.

I wonder how many have "fought" to become mini-nurseries. :huh: How many more have been dragged along by people with "I know what's best for you" agendas or stood by powerless, knowing they've just had more and more arbitrary requirements and unnecessary Ofsted/regime expectations thrust upon them for political ends, rather than being able to concentrate on caring for children and offering them what little of a childhood remains to them since they became political footballs.

Cminding has changed greatly and will continue to change in future thanks to the latest policies
When I say inclusion and equality I was coming from the point of view of the children ...I believe that they too need to be valued if they are with cms and be part of the sector...the issue of funding for instance is one of inclusion...finally children with cms can access funding too

I agree many cms have tuned into mini nurseries, many look after a huge number of children but I also know of many who have remained independent and navigated through the requirements that are 'necessary' and ignored those that are an extra burden especially the ones imposed by LAs or networks...in doing so they have concentrated on caring for the children and many do so for many years without much help or support.

[rickysmiths]

I didn't have to do the CYPOP5 unit for my level 3 as I would have completed it within 2 years of having done the ICP course. All I had to do was upload my certificate to sign it off

That seems fair enough. I became a childminder long enough ago that the 6 2 hour evenings were were advised to do (not compulsory) were so basic it was laughable.

We were given no option on our Level 3 we all did the CYPOP 5 Unit I think as it was one of the bigger Units they thought for most of us it would be an easy option because we would have all the information we needed at our finger tips! It still took 8 hours though!! It di make me look at and examine all my paperwork though so it got a through overhaul.

[rickysmiths]

Sadly a lot more people will return to see us as glorified babysitters running around in schools and helping out in their after schools clubs while being paid well below what we can earn now because we will be caring not educating anymore.

It is very sad that Cms inclusion in the EY sector only lasted from the introduction of EYFS 2008 and will end when EYFS 2012 is revised to strip us of the 'educators' role and confine us back to care only and the kitchen!

That is a bit harsh. We have no idea what the latest revision of EYFS will bring and we would think it odd if it were not revised regularly to reflect the mistakes made and the changing need. Just the same way all of us are (or should be) continually reviewing our practice, policies and Contracts to suit the changing needs of us and our clients. How can a document first published in 2008 continue to suit the needs of the EY sector forever?

[Simona]

That is a bit harsh. We have no idea what the latest revision of EYFS will bring and we would think it odd if it were not revised regularly to reflect the mistakes made and the changing need. Just the same way all of us are (or should be) continually reviewing our practice, policies and Contracts to suit the changing needs of us and our clients. How can a document first published in 2008 continue to suit the needs of the EY sector forever?

I agree with you ...no one knows what the EYFS 'review' will include....we could hazard a guess: will it include agencies and deregulation in its reform? no doubt... but I hope the needs of the children will be put first
Judging from the many comments I have read in the last couple of days everyone from the EY sector, is worrying that some of the proposed changes are not going to be good for the children and especially the 2 year olds sent to schools...many will cater well for their needs but not all.
They are being sent there because there is a crisis in childcare places and Truss believes it will lower costs to parents.

I know that I refer to the EYFS 2008 frequently...that is because it was based on Every Child Matters which this govt has sidelined while it is still relevant legislation
Yes it had to be reviewed...even the Labour party promised a review when it first published it...it was not a review it was a total reform
I would like to find out if Reggio Emilia reforms its practice as often as we do? or even New Zealand or others we often mention in good practice?
Many countries were envious of our EYFS

Will ECM still apply to children in deregulated care and will they be protected and safeguarded as well by unqualified carers? only time will tell

[bunyip]

Cminding has changed greatly and will continue to change in future thanks to the latest policies
When I say inclusion and equality I was coming from the point of view of the children ...I believe that they too need to be valued if they are with cms and be part of the sector...the issue of funding for instance is one of inclusion...finally children with cms can access funding too

I agree many cms have tuned into mini nurseries, many look after a huge number of children but I also know of many who have remained independent and navigated through the requirements that are 'necessary' and ignored those that are an extra burden especially the ones imposed by LAs or networks...in doing so they have concentrated on caring for the children and many do so for many years without much help or support.

Wow - big, scary double-take there. For a moment, I could've sworn I was reading another letter from LIzzie Truss. :p

[Simona]

Wow - big, scary double-take there. For a moment, I could've sworn I was reading another letter from LIzzie Truss. :p

Is it April 1st?
You insist on challenging others views...no problem but let me reassure you mine are a world apart from Truss.
I am not sure whether you have got this...I find you a bit of a bully...but I am old and ugly enough to take it and stand up to it.
Let freedom of speech rule...here and everywhere.

[bunyip]

Well tbh, it read like a piece of Trussite agitprop.

I'm quite used to being to subjected to name-calling every time I dare to disagree. I'm already familiar with "negative" and "cynical" as substitutes for reasoned argument. I have to say "bully" is a new one. It's rather a strange one to pin on a fellow CM, particularly one who spent last week defending the reputations of the moderators and fellow members.

Having been bullied, I do know what bullying is like and it's not something I'd choose to inflict on others.

[Ripeberry]

There are many different types of CMs. All we can do is make sure that we do the best we can. Firstly for our own families and the families we care for. I don't think anyone is bullying any one else. Some just do things differently and don't believe that the training they get is that good. I won't fork out £££ for a level 3. I'd rather educate myself on best practice not have a fancy bit of paper to prove what I know.

[FloraDora]

I find the fact that the forum members have different views and challenge each other to reflect on their views refreshing.
Since joining I have thought carefully about my views through posts people make. Usually it takes the form of a polite debate, which is the best we can do given the discussions take place in written form.

It wouldn't do if we were all had the same opinion, our wealth of different experiences bring us sometimes to different resting points, ready to listen and take on board other ideas and reasoning, but not necessarily reach total agreement with others.

[curly]

Now there is a thought! I do show my parents my ever growing Training Folder and most are very surprised I have done so much. I think they think it is babysitting in our own homes.:laughing:

That's a good idea!

I have my certificates at the back of my portfolio and I think parents are that bored by the time they've read through policies and risk assessments etc etc they skip the back section with all my certificates in.

[wee_elf]

I too am going to steal the training folder idea!! :)

[rickysmiths]

That's a good idea!

I have my certificates at the back of my portfolio and I think parents are that bored by the time they've read through policies and risk assessments etc etc they skip the back section with all my certificates in.

My 'Portfolio' got so big I now have separate A4 ring binders:

Training

Parents Feedback
which I show the parents along with my Parents Information Folder which has pics of my setting and a bit about me and my setting and what I do, where I go, a sample menu etc. Then my Ofsted report. Copy of a blank Contract and all the other bits I ask parents to fill in. My Consents form. All my Policies. My Complaints Procedure. A copy of my current PLI, First Aid Cert and Safeguarding Cert and that is all.

A Photo Album and an Outings Folder with leaflets and some info about the places we go and I have done a dummy LJ so they can see the sort of record I keep in which I have used back shot photos.



I have a Risk Assessment Folder which also contains my CRB's, details of hubby CRB and the letters from Ofsted saying my children are safe to be in the house, car Insurance certs, Mot Certs, household insurance cert, Home Safety Check form, Evacuation practice form, other bits of safety info eg about blind cords, not using socket covers, car seat requirements etc. and all my written RAs. If a parent asks to see it they can look but I don't show it to them this is information for me and Ofsted really so I know where everything is and where to find it if needed.

Planning Folder is for me.