What to do

[Karen1]

I have a child age 4 (school sept). Have him term time only, Tuesday 9-2 and we'd 9-12.30 with nursery drop. So only got him until July.

Each time, we have to walk and drop my son to preschool, a five min walk, cross road and back. Mindee hates it, complains and kicks a fuss, as all he wants to do is play toys. Especially hates it when we then have to go to nursery on Wednesday, won't put shoes on etc. I am firm. Really firm, but all sorts of problems, he hates nursery. Have spoken to nursery and they say he won't engage there or do any activities.
Here I find it hard trying to get him to do anything other than castle and knights! He won't hold a pen and when I tried to draw around his hand, well...
Anyway spoke to mum and she was not really keen about it. Have started a visual timetable to help and got mum to bring pictures too, but won't use it! Have a communication book to ensure that I am writing down all behaviour for mum.
This week I am having to pick him up from nursery two extra days. And when he found out today, he said no that's mummy job and has been absolutely awful. Spoke to mum on pick up, who did speak to him. Dreading Thursday and fir pick up as will have other minders with me too- I won't be doing it again!
But I have noticed that heh worse when I have other mindees here. Today another mindee came and he told the dad that T should go home as he won't play with him!!! Luckily dad thought it was funny (but if it had been the mum she wouldn't have- hopefully they won't talk!)

Really, unsure what else to do, if I am one to one with him, he's fine as long as I stick to castles. It really isn't helping him, if I mention park he gets cross.

Any ideas what to do next, as seriously don't know, just ringing a few bells...

[sing-low]

Could you try and extend his castle and knight play? Could encourage mark making while making a costume our of cardboard - he could paint it grey, get him to imagine leaving the castle (lower the drawbridge, ride on your horse) when going to preschool with your son. Going to the park could be a quest to slay the dragon and rescue the princess.

[Karen1]

I have tried and tried. Had paper out drawn a moat on it with ducks to go around castle, and how will we get across? You colour the moat? You add extras on? Etc but just a no and stamp of feet, and response of 'play toys'

have tried to get him to count the knights, the horses, have tried to get him to dress up as knight

Tried to get him to play with the blue knights and me the red to try and have a colour play-but no. If it's not his play then won't incorporate anything in.

I have tried play dough, painting, cutting, sticking, sensory baskets. Books, but he will refuse to even look and will storm off. Have got all these activities out, been enthusiastic , but will not budge, no matter what persuasion I use.he will just say 'no you play toys' really starting to get to me now, plus how is he going to cope in reception class? Will try and have another word with nursery tomorrow, as maybe they can raise it with mum too.

Now I have another mindee coming his days too from next week, and will not be wanting to play castles all day! She will want and deserve other stimulation and def. need to get out. But his response with the settling in sessions this week and today have not filled me with hope. Especially as he is going in July and new minded is hopefully long term, plus my other minded have all been long term,

As Chinese New Year, I have been taking mindees to our local horse place, which also has duck pond and park. All have had great time, feeding ducks, playing in park and seeing the animals. But, he was not interested when I mentioned it and showed pictures of the others having a good time- how do I get him to move if I can't get him out the door. Can't drag him!!

Arrrgg.

[bunyip]

Might just need to give it time.

Unfortunately for Ms Truss and the over-qualified navel-gazing educational 'experts' some children don't fit into the EYFS agenda any more they I ever fitted into school's agenda.

I have one who is similarly intensively interested in one thing for quite a while before he moves on to something else. First it was outdoor play, thn it was bubbles, then water play, then painting, now it's a boardgame.

Tbh, the little chap won't do me any favours if he's here when Ofsted show up - but I'm more interested in him than I am about by own 'status'.

[KatieFS]

Sounds horrible but have you tried not having his favourite toy. Hope you all don't think I'm being mean.. But one child I had just wanted to watch telly all day and wouldn't do anything else.
So I told her, sorry its broken today but have got play dough for you instead. Took a while but she got bored and decided to do something else.
He is going to find school tough!

[Glitter]

Have you tried just letting him play with the castle while you do something else. After a few days of being ignored he might decide to have a look at what you are doing.
If he asks you to play with him just say 'not now I am bust doing this' and don't ask him to join in. Most children will eventually get bored by themselves and want to do something else so they can have some attention.

[Simona]

The first thought that has come to my mind about this child is :Schemas
This child is exhibiting repeated patterns in play...you say it is castles and knights...what does he do? how does he play? does he envelop or rotate toys? does he position his toys?

Observe him and identify which schema it is, let him follow his interests and give him the chance to experiment and repeat his play....looks like the nursery has missed this too
If allowed he will build on his existing knowledge because he is initiating and leading his play.

Many children only want to play with certain toys...it does not matter ...they are still learning in their unique way

Let us know what you discover...

[bunyip]

And OTOH we used to just be allowed to have a childhood...........................:(

[jackie 7]

How about putting cars and other toys in the castle and putting the knights in a garage or house. I agree with giving him the castle but to the side of the toys. Then have lots of loud fun with other toys.

[Karen1]

Hi

Thanks for the tips. I will def look into the schemas, that completely slipped my mind..maybe a way forward.
He has been with me for two months!!
I don't mind him continually playing with the same toy, but I am concerned he is four and half, starting school in sept and won't even entertain other things- hold pen, paintbrush, etc and worried he is going to really struggle and be in trouble from day 1!

Plus with the new child joining next week, he is not going to get so much attention anyway. I will be setting up other activities and doing them with her. Will try to get him to join in and participate, but ...

Anyway, to get through pick ups first!! Maybe he may play with my eldest who he hasn't met before?

Thanks again for tips.

[Simona]

He is only 4 ...why would he be in trouble?

All he wants to do is play with his castles and kings and maybe have others show interest in his play and not be pushed into painting or holding a pen right now...that will come

Try the schemas and I am sure you will see a lot of improvement

[Tatjana]

Erm, is there any reason why he can't play castles and knights? Why are you trying to make him do things he doesn't want to do?

[Zoomie]

I had a child who was NOT interested in anything arts and crafts. He preferred to just play with the trains or cars, or whatever his interest was at the time. However when I did these arts and crafts activities with the other children, sometimes he would come and join in. Not often, but the opportunity was always there for him.

Put the castle away and make your own with tubes and boxes.
Research medieval ways of life and maybe make soda bread, and how they ate meat and hardly any vegs (I may just be making this up)
Get books at the library about castles / medieval life and just leave them about.
Find out about famous knights and who they served (maybe learning about British monarchs along the way).

A lot of the time, my planning involves me becoming more knowledgeable about a certain subject and then I just incorporate this into the play, or mention it when we are walking to nursery / having a meal.

[littlemiss60561]

Try not to get too fustrated re him not doing anything else. It doesn't matter, and it's quite a way off until september really. So much can and will happen in 8 months.
Getting out, however is a different issue and one that requires a lot of patience and perseverance!
Could nursery " hide a knight" for him to look for on his arrival?!or a princess and he is the knight rescuing her?
With the new mindie starting, or even now, (you've probably already tried ) do you think if you began building your own castle out of boxes and drew on windows and made drawbridges etc he would if left to it with v little verbal prompting, join in eventually? If he's aw you guys having a whale of a time?
Good luck and deep breath x

[bunyip]

He is only 4 ...why would he be in trouble?

All he wants to do is play with his castles and kings and maybe have others show interest in his play and not be pushed into painting or holding a pen right now...that will come

Try the schemas and I am sure you will see a lot of improvement

You'd think so, and I agree with you, but the so-called educational 'experts' would disagree entirely.

Our LA Trackers, based on EYFS Development Matters, clearly state that at 25-36 months a child must be "Beginning to hold writing tools with three finger tripod grip...." The tracker states that we must not progress a child to the next stage of learning until they pass all criteria in each section. So, no tripod grip, no moving the child on.

I have 2 client parents who do not use a tripod grip. Do I tell them they need to learn to write again cos they're setting a bad example and clearly lack the competences of a 3yo? Indeed, I've come across several elite sportspeople (in my previous work) who, signing cheques and credit card slips demonstrated very unusual grips which are nothing like the tripod grip which is (according to the experts) essential to the development of any kind of literacy. Would the experts and government ministers care to tell these Olympians and capped internationals that they are "...functioning below the expected level..." of physical skills for a 3yo? (How on Earth did Team GB win all those medals? One can only assume the rest of the world's sports stars were all still using nappies and sippy-cups.)

Is it cynical to suggest these educational experts and academicians are several light years away from their professed interest in "the unique child" and are rather following an agenda of social control to make sure they all turn out the same, to make things easier for the teachers to cope with? :huh:

It actually puts me in mind of the days (only just prior to my own school days) when all children were forced to write with their right hand cos left-handedness was seen as incorrect technique which would impair a child's ability to write and learn properly. :(

[Simona]

You'd think so, and I agree with you, but the so-called educational 'experts' would disagree entirely.

Our LA Trackers, based on EYFS Development Matters, clearly state that at 25-36 months a child must be "Beginning to hold writing tools with three finger tripod grip...." The tracker states that we must not progress a child to the next stage of learning until they pass all criteria in each section. So, no tripod grip, no moving the child on.

I have 2 client parents who do not use a tripod grip. Do I tell them they need to learn to write again cos they're setting a bad example and clearly lack the competences of a 3yo? Indeed, I've come across several elite sportspeople (in my previous work) who, signing cheques and credit card slips demonstrated very unusual grips which are nothing like the tripod grip which is (according to the experts) essential to the development of any kind of literacy. Would the experts and government ministers care to tell these Olympians and capped internationals that they are "...functioning below the expected level..." of physical skills for a 3yo? (How on Earth did Team GB win all those medals? One can only assume the rest of the world's sports stars were all still using nappies and sippy-cups.)

Is it cynical to suggest these educational experts and academicians are several light years away from their professed interest in "the unique child" and are rather following an agenda of social control to make sure they all turn out the same, to make things easier for the teachers to cope with? :huh:

It actually puts me in mind of the days (only just prior to my own school days) when all children were forced to write with their right hand cos left-handedness was seen as incorrect technique which would impair a child's ability to write and learn properly. :(

Yes.... the LA trackers which are taken from DM which is a guidance....but they forget each child is different
If we look at p 24 40-60+ in PD it suggests many things a child should do as 'expected' but some of these skills may be 'emerging'...so the school will work on that

I cannot give details here but have had exactly the same with a child...same age... whose school thought the unthinkable about his repetitive play and parents very concerned they were not following his interests...they even had an Individual planning and referred to the SENCO only to find the child was absolutely within his learning and extremely capable...he was introduced to school with a label that was totally inappropriate
When I reported the different behaviour in my setting because we followed his lead and interests it was rejected in a polite letter.

I am not a fan of children going to school at 4...in my view 6 is best... and being pushed when we know from other countries such as Finland and the rest of the world that later is better and children naturally achieve when they are developmentally and emotionally ready for the school environment.

I know we will not win this argument against schools but I am determined to try...I am sure many CMs think the same and argue against the LAs suggested methods or passing their criteria.

[Karen1]

I said trouble, because I'm concerned he will fall behind in school, because he has no interest in others, or doing anything else. I can't put my finger on it. When I've spoken to nursery before they say he doesn't engage with anyone and just stands there! He will play with me one to one. But Also since I've had other mindees his behaviour is worse! He will hit my hand away and stamp, take toys away from others nastily because it's his! Have done talks on sharing, being nice etc.
At start mum told me she was concerned over his development.
I have no problem with him playing castles all day and have really tried to incorporate other things into his play, but, I just don't get the right feeling about his all round behaviour. Perhaps I'm just not explaining it well

[Simona]

I said trouble, because I'm concerned he will fall behind in school, because he has no interest in others, or doing anything else. I can't put my finger on it. When I've spoken to nursery before they say he doesn't engage with anyone and just stands there! He will play with me one to one. But Also since I've had other mindees his behaviour is worse! He will hit my hand away and stamp, take toys away from others nastily because it's his! Have done talks on sharing, being nice etc.
At start mum told me she was concerned over his development.
I have no problem with him playing castles all day and have really tried to incorporate other things into his play, but, I just don't get the right feeling about his all round behaviour. Perhaps I'm just not explaining it well

I think you are explaining very well and your concerns are genuine
If mum was concerned about his development is she now listening to you? how does she feel?
has the nursery he goes to shared their worries with you?
have you exchanged information and LJs?
In your case I would approach someone in EY and see if they can offer you support or come and look at your assessment of your child because you have to follow your instincts from the evidence you have

Hope you get some answers soon

[Karen1]

Right. Update. Collected from nursery. Another mindee and my child. I spoke to his key worker, who said yes they have a lot of concerns with him and have called a meeting with mum next week (mum has not said anything to me!). Their SENCO has concerns over asperger or autism!!!! I gave my input and said I have concerns too, and he generally is same with me, but sounds like things are a lot worse at nursery, probably because of more children, and things got worse with me, when I had other mindees here!
Had issues with sharing and him snatching, but fine, dealt with.
Played castles.
Another nursery pick up tomorrow, with another mindee then back to normal. I am not going to do these additional collections again.
I spoke to mum on pick up about the snatching etc, and asked her about his time at nursery, but she said nothing about the meeting!
Anyway, feel more positive tonight than I did.
I don't know much about asperger so or autism, but know routines play a part of it, so perhaps this is y some of the behaviour is happening, because when he knew I was collecting he did say, it was mummy's job!

[KatieFS]

There is a child similar I know if. Was thinking about this last night.
good cm friend looked after him. Very similar with super heros. Everything was super heros and didn't want to do anything else. Had a box if action figures... A bit obsessive at times. Similar didn't want to hold own crayons paint brush anything mark making.

Got to school, meetings with senco, gp ensued. A year down the line ADHD aspergers spectrum.

Mum could have told you!! Well done making links with nursery.

Good luck.

[Karen1]

Thanks for that KatieFS, I have just had him for another collection. Got from nursery just as they were dealing with a shouting match from him! He saw me turned and said Karens house now. I said no we have to get x first and then he started again. So nightmare trip to school.
Anyway dad picked up tonight and he was upset again as mummy didn't come and it's mummy's job. Dad mumbled. Oh no not in your plan is it!,

So obviously this is happening at home with him too, but they are not saying a thing. Need to get them to talk to me or nursery.

[Simona]

Thanks for that KatieFS, I have just had him for another collection. Got from nursery just as they were dealing with a shouting match from him! He saw me turned and said Karens house now. I said no we have to get x first and then he started again. So nightmare trip to school.
Anyway dad picked up tonight and he was upset again as mummy didn't come and it's mummy's job. Dad mumbled. Oh no not in your plan is it!,

So obviously this is happening at home with him too, but they are not saying a thing. Need to get them to talk to me or nursery.

Looks like things are moving slightly...your observations of the child certainly would want me to write down all that is happening and he is saying and research his behaviour to be able to help as best as I could and share it with parents and nursery.

[Karen1]

Hi Simona

I've not had to deal with this before, so am finding my feet a bit with it.

I gave the nursery verbal feedback, so think I am going to write down my concerns with observations etc. and give it to them on Wednesday. I am also going to try and talk to mum on Tuesday pick up. As not sure on the meeting date and my concerns, as they are not answering my notes in the communication book.
Also, am going to ring my LA number to see if they can give me some advice on how I need to proceed. Need to do this properly for the child.
Also will have a look into autism, aspergers to find coping tips for me to help him here.and to understand it all a bit more (just in case)