Childcare costs soar by 19%

[Simona]

This is the kind of headline that really infuriates me...when are politicians going to admit that the cost of living affects parents as well as providers?

There is not one party that has done anything...or will do anything... to tackle our ever increasing expenses which, under this govt, are rising all the time
Childcare costs soar by 19% in just one year (http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jan/12/soaring-cost-of-childcare)

[maisiemog]

And it's nursery costs I bet! My fees have been the same for two years now and the increase I'm introducing in April is 10p an hour so certainly nowhere near that high a percentage. And it only covers the increased expenses not giving me a wage increase!

[blue bear]

Wonder where thy got their figures from.
In. Way it's not surprising, government want higher qualified staff, well surprise surprise they need to be paid more!
Food has gone, up electricity, gas, rent, insurance.... On and on it goes the cost of childcare has gone up but not the net profit that's for sure.

[yummyripples]

My prices haven't increased 19%!
I was watching something this morning and it said childcare is 40% of peoples disposable income. DISPOSABLE! . As far as I am concerned childcare is an essential bill if you have children and work.
Disposable income is money that you have to spend on luxuries isn't it?
My actual take home pay last year was 40% of the money that comes in. (All legal - I am just a bad business woman and spend too much on the kids) but people work out my daily fee, times that by 3 and think I earn fortunes. I certainly don't

[bunyip]

Does anyone seriously expect regime statistics to have any basis in fact? :huh:

It's the same as all the fictitious BS they put out about being "swamped" by billions of Romanians/Bulgarians/Vegetarians or anyone else they happen to hate. They splurge the numbers all over the right wing press, but refuse to say how they worked out such figures. Incidentally, the one number we are sure about is that the first flight arriving from Transylvania was "swamping" us with a terrifying two entirely legal immigrant workers who were planning to "steal our jobs" (and presumably despoil our virgins, cos we all know they do that sort of thing.....) Funny how nobody mentions how EU migrants are less likely to be on benefits than people born in the UK; that they make a net contribution to the national coffers, whilst MPs cost £100,000+ pa to maintain when you consider their salary, pension, expenses, security costs, not to mention policy c0ck-ups, etc.

Anyway, maybe we should check what the current definition of "childcare" is. Usually, they manage to doctor the unemployment figures by simply finding a new word for it. :mad:


Sorry :blush: - ranting again......................:rolleyes:

[Mummits]

Perhaps childcare costs "soaring" may be partly down to more childminders packing it in as they can't make a decent living on the derisory rates folk are prepared to pay out of their disposable income. As for those who just add up the number of children and do the maths on gross income, perhaps they need to be made aware of the amount of expenses and the number of unpaid hours involved in delivering the sort of service they expect.

[Simona]

Does anyone seriously expect regime statistics to have any basis in fact? :huh:

It's the same as all the fictitious BS they put out about being "swamped" by billions of Romanians/Bulgarians/Vegetarians or anyone else they happen to hate. They splurge the numbers all over the right wing press, but refuse to say how they worked out such figures. Incidentally, the one number we are sure about is that the first flight arriving from Transylvania was "swamping" us with a terrifying two entirely legal immigrant workers who were planning to "steal our jobs" (and presumably despoil our virgins, cos we all know they do that sort of thing.....) Funny how nobody mentions how EU migrants are less likely to be on benefits than people born in the UK; that they make a net contribution to the national coffers, whilst MPs cost £100,000+ pa to maintain when you consider their salary, pension, expenses, security costs, not to mention policy c0ck-ups, etc.

Anyway, maybe we should check what the current definition of "childcare" is. Usually, they manage to doctor the unemployment figures by simply finding a new word for it. :mad:


Sorry :blush: - ranting again......................:rolleyes:

Like you many do not believe these statistics especially as they seem to survey parents only not providers as well....but they are distorted and that is very annoying

On other matters...
I am sick of reading parents want 'flexible, high quality and affordable' childcare...and yet those parents surveyed by Mumsnet said they would not want cheaper childcare at the expense of quality

Flexible childcare is available...why don't parents look at CMs for a start...other providers too are flexible
Hugh quality is there too...70% of providers are good/outstanding
Affordable...well I too would like to deliver 'affordable' childcare but looking at expenses they are rising and not affordable

Another annoying thing is that none of the parties have solutions and none listen to us ...just the parents :mad:

There is a big debate in the Observer today about childcare...long but worth reading with input from a CM who campaigns for stay at home mums

Universal childcare: the Observer debate | Money | The Observer (http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jan/12/childcare-the-observer-debate-labour)

[bunyip]

Agreed Simona.


parents want 'flexible, high quality and affordable' childcare...

Do people stop to think for one moment when they come out with this sort of thing. It's like when I used to work at the airport, and passengers asked me "what's the fastest and cheapest way into the city?" Er, well their isn't one. Simple economics dictates that if there were a fastest and cheapest way, then all the other slowest and most expensive ones would go bust, eh? Yes, I'd like to have free, non-fattening chocolate cake, but that's not going to happen either. :D I suspect some of these airheads sit around in restaurants arguing over bills: "yes, I know I ordered the champagne, I know I drank the champagne, but it was perfectly clear at the time that I only ever intending paying for water."


Flexible

Hate that word. It's pure Humpty Dumpty language: means exactly what the speaker means to say at the time they say it, no more , no less - so it is utterly meaningless in any practical sense.


Hugh quality is there too...70% of providers are good/outstanding

With the greatest respect to CMs who've worked hard for their grades, it's a mistake to assume that Ofsted's idea of 'quality' is always desirable or even what parents want when they say "quality." People need to be careful what they wish for.

Most families need childcare cos they have little/no choice about both parents going out to work. They essentially want someone safe to look after their child and get it back in one piece for teatime. Most of the rest is just government agenda and populist bluster, backed up by well-meaning parents wanting the best for their child and having that idea of "best" being moulded and manipulated.


Affordable...well I too would like to deliver 'affordable' childcare but looking at expenses they are rising and not affordable

For starters, I'd be content to be guaranteed the national minimum wages after costs for all hours worked, then we can talk with the regime about what's "affordable". That's not gonna happen either, is it?


Another annoying thing is that none of the parties have solutions

The problem there is that the solution is too simple and too uncomfortable for a late capitalist regime to contemplate. ie. Everybody should be getting higher wages (thus having the income to pay for childcare) rather than a tiny percentage of people raking off obscene profits, salaries and superannuation.

[sing-low]

My prices haven't increased 19%! I was watching something this morning and it said childcare is 40% of peoples disposable income. DISPOSABLE! . As far as I am concerned childcare is an essential bill if you have children and work. Disposable income is money that you have to spend on luxuries isn't it? My actual take home pay last year was 40% of the money that comes in. (All legal - I am just a bad business woman and spend too much on the kids) but people work out my daily fee, times that by 3 and think I earn fortunes. I certainly don't
'Disposable income' is income minus tax which would be the same as your 'take home pay' (a much better way of describing it IMO).

[yummyripples]

'Disposable income' is income minus tax which would be the same as your 'take home pay' (a much better way of describing it IMO).

Really? Oops I always thought disposable was how much you had to play with after you met your living expenses. Whoops

[Mouse]

Really? Oops I always thought disposable was how much you had to play with after you met your living expenses. Whoops

That's what I always thought it was!

[appleblossom]

Perhaps childcare costs "soaring" may be partly down to more childminders packing it in as they can't make a decent living on the derisory rates folk are prepared to pay out of their disposable income. As for those who just add up the number of children and do the maths on gross income, perhaps they need to be made aware of the amount of expenses and the number of unpaid hours involved in delivering the sort of service they expect.

Yes, like me. I'm giving up as for most of the week I'm earning £3.50 per hour before expenses. For 16 hours per week I earn £7.00 per hour gross. That's for a 40 hour week. The one EY child I have is going to day nursery and the increase in fees for his Mum will be more than that 19% quoted.

[yummyripples]

That's what I always thought it was!

I have asked around today and everyone I asked thinks the same as me

[AliceK]

I am having to seriously consider whether I can continue as a sustainable business when 60% of my hourly rate is expenses. For what I actually earn for a 55hr week I can not justify it. I wish my charges to parents had risen 19% then I would perhaps not be forced to think about giving it all up :(

xx

[yummyripples]

I am having to seriously consider whether I can continue as a sustainable business when 60% of my hourly rate is expenses. For what I actually earn for a 55hr week I can not justify it. I wish my charges to parents had risen 19% then I would perhaps not be forced to think about giving it all up :(

xx
I am glad your expenses are 60%. I got told off by someone for mine being that high!

[Simona]

I am glad your expenses are 60%. I got told off by someone for mine being that high!

Anyone daring to tell you off has no idea and I wonder what type of business they run?..that is the reality of it...our costs are steadily rising and all we hear is how expensive childcare is to parents.
Bored to tears by it all and time someone spoke up for providers!

[yummyripples]

Anyone daring to tell you off has no idea and I wonder what type of business they run?..that is the reality of it...our costs are steadily rising and all we hear is how expensive childcare is to parents.
Bored to tears by it all and time someone spoke up for providers!

Childminder!!!! She said our expenses should be no more than 33% that's why I thought I was bad!!!!
I spend a lot on my mindees, we go for meals out and I do my them treats! I work for love not money obviously x

[bunyip]

I suspect that journalistic confusion over the definition of 'disposable income' is also contributing to outlandish media reports about the "rising cost of childcare." Btw, very few writers seem able to demonstrate a mathematical understanding of percentages, never mind the much-misunderstood "percentage increase".

It's also worth bearing in mind that most media reports are based on the anecdotal Guess-timates of parents (since government is strangely reluctant to publish any hard evidence, nor explain its methodology in reaching its conclusions.)

I doubt whether many parents have much of an accurate idea of their true childcare costs. They tend to take their monthly bill and multiply by 12, with no deduction for times they are not charged (or not charged in full) such as CMs' holidays and other closures. They make no deductions for benefits such as childcare vouchers or the childcare element of tax credits, seeing these as some sort of 'free money' entitlement for being good enough to fill the planet with their offspring. Neither do they make deductions for those expenses that CMs incur on their behalf. By this I mean that many CMs supply meals, snacks, petrol, admission charges, etc. thus saving the parents the cost of providing those meals, petrol usage, etc. More than one family has remarked that it's cheaper for them to let me take their children out for the day, than for them to go out for the day together as a family. :panic: Parents then tend to look at this (already overestimated) figure and compare it, not to the total family income, but to the mum's individual salary, since the logical explanation is that childcare is only necessary cos she is going back to work.

The outcome is headlines like "Childcare = 33% of families' earnings". Really, it's 33% of the individual income of the lower earner in the relationship, but that 33% is based on an inflated calculation, before taking off the TC/voucher benefits and allowing for the fact that the 'childcare' saves the family various expenses such as a lot of meals, trips, petrol/travel costs, etc. etc.

As an additional consideration, the Tax Credits system provides every incentive for families to over-estimate their costs to a degree.

Finally, once the myth of 'expensive childcare' is channelled through the media to the chattering classes, the whole thing tends to take on a life of its own and becomes very difficult to bring back down to the level of facts.

Fellow Radio 4 listeners will have already worked out that I enjoy 'More or Less'. :D

[WibbleWobble]

I have posted on the daily fail article...don't know if it will get through moderation though...

An interesting point...

Mr wobble was looking through my accounts on the computer and was looking at the previous years energy bills ( the percentage claimed stays the same) and our bill has gone up 80% over the past 4 years!!!!

We haven't used any more energy... It's just price!

Food for thought

Wibble xxx

[lilac_dragon]

I;ve been charging £4 per hour for the last 4 years and am not looking at putting my fees up at this point. So no 19% increase here!
Have just filled in and submitted my tax return and about 45 % was expenses. Overheads such as power bills etc have increased so percentage of that increase has obviously been passed onto my business, but I've spent the last 2 years earning well with EY's so have been putting a lot back into my business with replacing buggies, travel cots and other equipment and by expanding my toys and other resources. Hopefully they will last until I need to retire so next year I may be better off.

[Simona]

Monday has not started well when Lucy Powell MP is tweeting that the cost of childcare is preventing 25% of young mothers returning to work
In addition she made it worse by saying 'babysitters' get £10 ph...my reply to her was to stare at reality in the face when we are getting £3.50 for educating children....and did she have any solutions to address our rising costs??

no reply so far :angry:

[AliceK]

I am glad your expenses are 60%. I got told off by someone for mine being that high!

My hourly rate has not increased yet almost everything in life has. I have most noticed the increase in my food bills, they have shot up. Considering I feed all meals to mindees I think that has pushed up my expenses quite a bit but I refuse to feed the children food that I would not eat myself so I buy only quality food. Most years my expenses have been 50% but this year they have gone up to 60%. It's ridiculous. Depending on how many children I have, I'm working most days for £3.16 per hour and some days (like tomorrow) for £1.60 per hour. That is just not sustainable long term :panic:

xxx

[Simona]

Good points everyone...I feel that for CMs matters are worse
Unlike preschools we offer meals, we drive and take children out and that increases our expenses
What we can claim back is pitiful when others in the sector can claim 100% of their expenses...so we need to move on and reflect

Cms are still charging very little compared to the cost of living which has gone up by more than 50% let alone 19%...unless the govt and other parties deal with that they will have a crisis on their hand and unable to fulfil their promises because providers will decide that subsidising childcare will not be an option in future and CMs will walk away...well babysitting seems a good and well paid option!

[Mouse]

Has anyone looked on findababbysitter.com, where these figures have come from?


I have had a look at my local area. The adverts are mainly from 16/17 year olds offering babysitting for £7+ an hour.

That is NOT the childcare that the media is talking about. How can they consult a babysitting service when they want figures for childcare? If their headline had read "Babysitting charges increase by 19%" no one would have been in the least bit concerned. But now we have to face the usual "childcare is so expensive" backlash when the figure is nothing to do with us :angry:

And of course, any babysitter who does earn £7 an hour will have no expenses to take out of that!

[Simona]

You are right....It has been tweeted this morning that the figures were about nannies, babysitters and non regulated care

Family and Childcare Trust will publish new figures next week...that is what I dread the most because they never ask providers just parents
Unless the argument is seen from both sides we will never find a solution

[Mouse]

You are right....It has been tweeted this morning that the figures were about nannies, babysitters and non regulated care

Family and Childcare Trust will publish new figures next week...that is what I dread the most because they never ask providers just parents
Unless the argument is seen from both sides we will never find a solution

I wonder how many parents are going to turn round and say "actually, my childcare costs are quite reasonable!"

One of my friends pays £15 a week for 27 hours childcare. That takes into account the 15 hours funding and 70% of the rest being paid by tax credits. I often see her spouting off on FB about the cost of childcare. She's commented today about how are parents supposed to work & support their families when they have to pay £10 an hour for childcare. I feel like posting in very big letters - you don't. You pay less less than 60p an hour!!

[Simona]

I wonder how many parents are going to turn round and say "actually, my childcare costs are quite reasonable!"

One of my friends pays £15 a week for 27 hours childcare. That takes into account the 15 hours funding and 70% of the rest being paid by tax credits. I often see her spouting off on FB about the cost of childcare. She's commented today about how are parents supposed to work & support their families when they have to pay £10 an hour for childcare. I feel like posting in very big letters - you don't. You pay less less than 60p an hour!!

Some parents would never admit to that...our fees are reasonable compared to those published in this survey while the funding is appalling and immoral and has not risen for many years
Parents also get so much help from the govt in many forms while we get nothing but rising costs

The figures quoted in the survey for childcare professionals are:

babysitter up to £9.50
nanny up to £8.75
nanny after school up to £10.00
part time nanny and Mothers help up to £10.00

since when babysitters are childcare professionals? and if parents will pay them that great hourly rate then I think they have the wrong priorities in my personal view!!

[Simona]

Here is PLA CEO reply to the survey...hitting the nail on the head again!!

https://www.pre-school.org.uk/media/press-releases/450/alliance-rejects-claims-of-19-childcare-cost-rises

[bunyip]

I note the following line from Simona's link: "“This survey only cites changes in the rates of nannies, babysitters, mother’s helpers and housekeepers."

Presumably this piece of micro-inflationary market pressure must be down to all the unemployed graduates doing babysitting whilst pressing for a wage which reflects their qualifications. :D

[Simona]

I note the following line from Simona's link: "“This survey only cites changes in the rates of nannies, babysitters, mother’s helpers and housekeepers."

Presumably this piece of micro-inflationary market pressure must be down to all the unemployed graduates doing babysitting whilst pressing for a wage which reflects their qualifications. :D

I think it is pure fiction and 'headline' grabbing tactics we could do without...the sector was quick to respond though
and so we should as enough is enough...this article says it all...not sure about Family and Childcare Trust response who constantly moan about rising costs so their imminent survey will be another reason to get cross

******************** report: Sector contests claims of huge childcare fee rise | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1141522/findababysittercom-report-sector-contests-claims-huge-childcare-fee-rise)

[Simona]

Oh no...why is it starred out?

[Simona]

For those interested this is the article:

According to ***************.com’s second annual childcare report, childcare in the UK rose on average by 19 per cent between December 2012 - December 2013, preventing 25 per cent of unemployed parents working.

However, while ******************** says its figures on costs are based on the responses of 231,000 ‘childcare professionals’, the data only appears to include fees charged by mostly unregulated providers, such as babysitters, nannies, mothers’ helps and housekeepers.

Early years organisations, nurseries and childminders have spoken out against the figures, which theysay do not acurately reflect the fees of regulated childcare for nurseries and childminders.

Purnima Tanuku, chief executive of the National Day Nurseries Association, (NDNA) said, ‘Findababysitter.com’s survey focuses more on informal childcare such as babysitters, nannies and housekeepers.

‘The nursery sector reflects a different trend and the evidence collected in NDNA’s Business Performance survey shows increases are not remotely at this level

More than half of members surveyed, 58 per cent, said they had frozen their fees. Many made the decision as they know how hard it is for working parents who are themselves facing pay freezes.

‘For the childcare providers keeping prices down, the gap between the amount they are paid for funded places and the actual reality of the delivery cost continues to be a problem.’

She added, ‘The Government needs to overhaul the funding system and ensure places are properly financed to stop the cycle of childcare costs being a barrier to finding work.’

Neil Leitch, chief executive of the Pre-School Learning Alliance, has argued that the figures do not ‘align with reality’ for the vast majority of early years providers.

He said, ‘This survey only cites changes in the rates of nannies, babysitters, mother’s helpers and housekeepers. While such childcare professionals may make up the majority of ***************.com’s own client base, they only comprise a small proportion of early years providers across the country. As such, the results of such a survey are in no way representative of what is happening in the childcare market as a whole.

‘Of the many multiple and single-site providers I have spoken to over the past year, I have never come across a single one that has imposed anything close to the rate increases being quoted in this report. Indeed these figures completely contradict the findings of the recent Children and Families Trust survey published earlier this year.

Of course, although we do not recognise the figures cited in the ******************** report, we do acknowledge that many parents and families are indeed struggling to cope with rising childcare costs. At the same time, lack of sufficient Government funding means that many providers are still struggling to break even and wages in the sector remain extremely low.

‘There is no quick or easy solution this to this: the Government simply must start investing adequately into childcare in this country. Unless the Government accepts the need to increase early years funding, the challenges currently facing both parents and providers are likely to continue in the long term.’

Ellen Broome, director of policy, research and communications at Family and Childcare Trust, said, ‘The vast majority of children will be in regulated childcare such as nurseries and childminders. The 19 per cent increase applied only to non-regulated provision.

‘The Family and Childcare Trust will be releasing figures on the regulated sector in March in our annual childcare costs survey.

‘The important point is that childcare costs are rising well-above inflation, with the price of childcare in the regulated sector rising by 77 per cent over the last ten years when wages have remained the same making it increasingly unaffordable for parents.’

A number of childminders commented on Facebook to say they have not increased their fees in the past year.

One childminder, Suzanne Chipperfield in Worthing, West Sussex, said, ‘My fees haven’t risen for two years. In 1997 I was charging £2.50 per hour and now I charge £3.50-not much of an increase in 17 years.’

Another childminder, Lisa Fricker in Southampton, said, ‘I charged £3.50 an hour per child in 2009 and now charge £3.70. I think it’s ridiculous blaming childcare costs on us.

‘People are happy to pay more for a cleaner or dog walker than they are for the care of their children.’

Julie Dodd, managing director of MK Focus, which supports childminders in Milton Keynes, told Nursery World that the average hourly rated charged by childminders in the area is £4 per hour.

She explained, ‘With the high costs of energy, food and petrol, many childminders earn below the minimum wage. We have to pay for additional training, work long hours to offer a flexible service, often in excess of 50 hours per week, and then there are the unpaid hours after the children leave to do paperwork and admin.’

Liz Bayram, chief executive of the Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years (PACEY), said, 'PACEY recognises the increasing burden that parents are facing with rising childcare costs, as highlighted by this report. But it’s often forgotten that childcare professionals are amongst the most poorly paid professionals. It is also important to remember that childcare costs vary greatly according to regions across England and Wales. Childcare is a very localised market.

‘Government is providing more support to families through its tax free childcare plan and extensions to the free entitlement but it is clear that more is needed both in terms of childcare costs support and improved opportunities for parents to work flexibly, to balance family and working life. High quality childcare costs and more investment is needed to support providers to deliver the flexible, quality care that children and families deserve.’

Commenting on the ******************** report, a Department for Education spokesperson said, ‘Recent figures show childcare costs are stabilising after more than a decade of constantly rising prices.

‘We are taking decisive action to help families with the cost of childcare. We have increased free early education for all three- and four-year-olds from 12.5 to 15 hours a week and extended support to two-year-olds from low-income families. We are also introducing tax-free childcare which will see all eligible families receive up to £1,200 towards each child's childcare costs. At the same time, we are meeting up to 70 per cent of childcare costs for low- and middle-income families through tax credits.’

Tom Harrow, chief executive of ******************** said, '******************** currently has 231,000 childcare professionals registered on the website, ranging from babysitters, Ofsted registered nannies, through to au pairs and mother’s help. The 19% increase in cost, as published in our Annual Childcare Report has come from the average amount that each childcare professional charges per hour, compared to 12 months ago. Every three months we track childcare costs, because we care about what parents are dealing with. Our results do not reflect regulated
childcare such as nurseries and crèches – all other childcare is available on our website.

'******************** is a destination for parents to find many types of childcare solutions, giving families a variety of options and costs to meet everyone’s budget . We created the Annual Childcare Report to bring to the forefront the issues that parents are having when it comes to childcare. In this tough economic time there is a high demand for good quality childcare professionals, and wherever there is demand, you can expect inflation.'

[Simona]

I get it...there is an issue of competition here so this company which has the words 'find' and then 'a' and then 'babysitter' are starred out

It would be helpful to have a list of which names cannot be 'named' on this forum!

[Mouse]

I wondered how my comment got through the filter, then realised I'd spelt it wrong (unintentionally, I might add!)