Leaving mindee's in car?

[Blueeyedminder]

Does anyone ever leave mindee in the car for any reason? Opinions?

[Tazmin68]

Don't even think about it.
A long time ago I had a financial dispute with a parent. Years later I had two mindees in car aged 8 and 10 plus my own son. At the time I had promised the children a McDonald's after school. The McDonald's pay by card was not working so popped to cashpoint which was next to car outside a shop I was about 5 feet away as parked right by machine. This parent saw me and reported me to ofsted who investigated and i explained to inspector and that complaint remained on my file for the 3 years until next inspection.

Deb

[Blueeyedminder]

Some people are so petty! Surely it's safer to leave them in the car for 2 mins than it is trying to control 3 children near a road!

[munch149]

What about this situation. On the odd occasion I have put all kids in car, forgotten something and ran back jn to get it. Technically I've left them in car. But realistically it would take me longer to get them out again. What would you do. In this case they are locked in car on my drive. I have never done any other time. Oh actually I will put them in car and take back trolley on odd occasion I go to supermarket (very rare) but again safer to leave them in car than put back trolley and walk across car park.

[Blueeyedminder]

I completely agree so long as they're strapped in and car is locked I think it's safer

[CookieCutter]

I don't drive yet, but am hoping to be soon. I live in a first floor flat and look after 2 little ones who can't negotiate stairs on their own. I've been thinking about it, and feel the safest way for me to get them to the car (when I start driving) would be to park the car right in front of the door, bring one down the stairs, then go straight back up for the other one.

I could put them in a pushchair at the bottom of the stairs, but that will only work until April, when I get my third little one. If I consider all the risks, I feel putting them in the car one at a time will be the safest option...apart from just never leaving the house! :)

[AliceK]

I would never leave any child in a car mindees or my own. I do know of a childminder who does leave children in the car when she collects from school but it wouldn't be allowed as they should be in sight and / or hearing at all times and shut in a car they wouldn't be.

xxx

[samb]

I don't drive yet, but am hoping to be soon. I live in a first floor flat and look after 2 little ones who can't negotiate stairs on their own. I've been thinking about it, and feel the safest way for me to get them to the car (when I start driving) would be to park the car right in front of the door, bring one down the stairs, then go straight back up for the other one.

I could put them in a pushchair at the bottom of the stairs, but that will only work until April, when I get my third little one. If I consider all the risks, I feel putting them in the car one at a time will be the safest option...apart from just never leaving the house! :)

I live in an upstairs flat. I often have 3 under 2s. We "bump down" if they can't walk. So I have littlest on my lap with 2 x1 yr olds sitting next to me and we have great fun bumping down each step on our bottoms. I either would have the buggy at the bottom to pop them in or if going in the car I have the older 2 on reins and the youngest I have a hip seat with back strap for. I wouldn't personally feel ok about leaving them in or out on their own. Could you do something similar to me?

[Ripeberry]

I have to pick up one child from an after school club at a local school. The school is so old fashioned that the door to the the club is on the road. I can park inches from the door. I ring the doorbell and the child is brought to me. All the time the door is open (pre-school) and I can touch the car with my foot. I'd have to take out a sleeping baby, two toddlers and my own 9 yr old just for two steps! So it's safer to leave them in the car.

[emma04]

I leave mindees in car providing car is in sight!

I would in no way get 4 under threes out in the pouring rain just to walk 3 metres. At one point I had 3 x 12mth olds and if I'd got the triple buggy out, put them all in, it would've taken 10 times longer and in the rain we'd have all been soaked to the skin, all for the sake if leaving them for less than 1min.

Common sense should prevail on this subject! And those that don't have any, shouldn't be working with children (IMO!!)

Ofsted will never be satisfied until we are all walking around with our minded children attached to our clothing with Velcro!!!
Unhealthy and downright awkward when you need a poo!!!! Lol

[CookieCutter]

I live in an upstairs flat. I often have 3 under 2s. We "bump down" if they can't walk. So I have littlest on my lap with 2 x1 yr olds sitting next to me and we have great fun bumping down each step on our bottoms. I either would have the buggy at the bottom to pop them in or if going in the car I have the older 2 on reins and the youngest I have a hip seat with back strap for. I wouldn't personally feel ok about leaving them in or out on their own. Could you do something similar to me?

One of the children I look after has cerebral palsy so I really wouldn't feel safe trying to support any other children down the stairs at the same time. Perhaps when I'm actually in the position of having to get 3 children into the car I will come up with a better solution. A lot can change between now and then, it's just that I feel it would actually be safer for me to load them in the car separately.

[Blueeyedminder]

I leave mindees in car providing car is in sight! I would in no way get 4 under threes out in the pouring rain just to walk 3 metres. At one point I had 3 x 12mth olds and if I'd got the triple buggy out, put them all in, it would've taken 10 times longer and in the rain we'd have all been soaked to the skin, all for the sake if leaving them for less than 1min. Common sense should prevail on this subject! And those that don't have any, shouldn't be working with children (IMO!!) Ofsted will never be satisfied until we are all walking around with our minded children attached to our clothing with Velcro!!! Unhealthy and downright awkward when you need a poo!!!! Lol

Haha that's hilarious! So glad I'm not the only one!

[emma04]

I wouldn't suggest leaving children in cars for shopping or such like but for a few minutes and in sight, whilst collecting children or jumping out to cashpoint is no more dangerous than doing both with walkers and pushchairs!

After all , there's always one that tries to escape your clutches, leaving you with a flustered and an "I can't cope" look on your face! Which is judged upon much more frequently!

All of the children I care for are placed in the car, at home, in a specific order I.e the runner always goes in first, closely followed by the crawler, next goes the easiest of all!!! This order is then reversed when exiting the car!
When getting in the car from toddlers the walkers go in first and in order of who is most likely to run! (runner is strapped to buggy and ultimately goes first!)

[Smiley]

Leaving them in the car on the drive while rushing to unlock the door etc is very different to leaving in the car a distance from school door or on a garage forecourt. I have observed and challenged this, as the cm was in the garage/ shop paying for fuel and the child were out of sight and hearing? Totally unacceptable

[munch149]

Leaving them in the car on the drive while rushing to unlock the door etc is very different to leaving in the car a distance from school door or on a garage forecourt. I have observed and challenged this, as the cm was in the garage/ shop paying for fuel and the child were out of sight and hearing? Totally unacceptable

Wouldn't do it at a garage or shopping no way. At garage I pay at pump if have to do so when I'm working and I would always take them in a shop even if just running in for some milk

[Simona]

Does anyone ever leave mindee in the car for any reason? Opinions?

Never! under no circumstances!

[FloraDora]

This thread has really illustrated the diverse circumstances in which members of the forum carry out childcare.
My initial thoughts were "no way, under any circumstances" but the different circumstances outlined here has made me reflect on this.....flights of stairs to negotiate before you even get to a car....3 under 2's to strategically plan for ..just to pick one child up from school...
The cashpoint/ shopping examples can be got round by being organised...but the life examples illustrate the difficulties many of the members have to endure daily...

That's why we are so unique!

[Simona]

This thread has really illustrated the diverse circumstances in which members of the forum carry out childcare.
My initial thoughts were "no way, under any circumstances" but the different circumstances outlined here has made me reflect on this.....flights of stairs to negotiate before you even get to a car....3 under 2's to strategically plan for ..just to pick one child up from school...
The cashpoint/ shopping examples can be got round by being organised...but the life examples illustrate the difficulties many of the members have to endure daily...

That's why we are so unique!

I know a CM who left her children unattended in the car...Ofsted was soon on her doorstep because someone reported it

I think we need to be very careful about giving advice on this matter and suggest scenarios when it 'may' be safe...this is an open forum
Yes there are some examples given here where 'children are within sight' that may make CMs reflect or actually do it but I still think it is not advisable

How about going to the cashpoint or getting petrol when we are not childminding and totally avoid this risk taking?

[dawn100]

Children must always be in sight or hearing so if leaving them inthe car means they are not in sight or hearing you are breaching ofsted requirements, however inconvenient that may be. If they are still in sight it's such a grey area that I think it's very hard to advise on, if I drive to drop my son to school I will get out of the car watch him across the road and into the school gate, I always remain next to my car, IMO no further from the children or different to me leaving them strapped in the car whilst I get the pushchair out of the boot, I've done written RA of this if it ever does get raised, but I have seen cm leave children in car park whilst collecting from pre-school because its quicker however they aren't always in sight so I don't think they would have a leg to stand on if a complaint was made against them.
Yes sometimes it is a faff to get them all out of car seats (how great full I am on weekends with just my own kids who can do their sestbelts) but however much of a faff it is the childs safety should be at the centre of our decision not just what makes our life easier.

[Mummits]

It's all a matter of what you mean by left in the car. I don't have stairs, and can park right outside my front door on my own drive, but you could argue that the first child I put in the car is "left" while I fetch the next from the hall, or vice versa when I take each one out. But trying to get in the car with a baby under each arm and a toddler clinging to me would be daft and there would be more risk of me dropping a child on the paving than of somebody hijacking my car at that instant. I wouldn't leave children in the car while I went shopping, but I probably would leave them in sight in the car while I got a parking ticket from the machine - less risk in my view than having them standing about in a car park. I see plenty of parents leaving children in their cars on the street while they do school drop offs or pick ups. Now I wouldn't do that, but if I'm honest I would be quite relaxed about leaving say my 8 year old reading his book while I was gone a minute or two - it's the risk of someone else reporting me that would stop me doing that.

[CookieCutter]

I'm sure this is the wrong thing to do, admitting this, and I know many will judge me to be a bad cm, but even just to get the 2 los downstairs, I have to very briefly be out of sight/hearing range. I put them both in separate cots and carry my double pushchair down stairs. I have carefully risk assessed and always have their safety in mind. If Ofsted would want to shut me down for this, then that would be a shame because I am a great childminder and care very much for the children I look after.

I do think it's a bit of common sense. I wouldn't be comfortable leaving children in a car whilst running into a shop, but if it's the safest way to get them into a car ( to be left in a locked car for less than a minute, on my quiet residential street), then I will do what I feel is the safest option.

I'm not looking to start any arguments, in fact, I'm feeling a bit like I have to explain myself because I wouldn't want anyone to judge me harshly.

[dawn100]

I'm sure this is the wrong thing to do, admitting this, and I know many will judge me to be a bad cm, but even just to get the 2 los downstairs, I have to very briefly be out of sight/hearing range. I put them both in separate cots and carry my double pushchair down stairs. I have carefully risk assessed and always have their safety in mind. If Ofsted would want to shut me down for this, then that would be a shame because I am a great childminder and care very much for the children I look after.

I do think it's a bit of common sense. I wouldn't be comfortable leaving children in a car whilst running into a shop, but if it's the safest way to get them into a car ( to be left in a locked car for less than a minute, on my quiet residential street), then I will do what I feel is the safest option.

I'm not looking to start any arguments, in fact, I'm feeling a bit like I have to explain myself because I wouldn't want anyone to judge me harshly.

I think because everyone's circumstances, lay out of house etc are so different it is very difficult to fully picture what people are describing so therefore it is difficult to advise other on what to do and for the same reason should withhold judgement but it is ofsteds place to judge us and our practises, so what ever you do you must ra and be happy to explain your reasons to ofsted. My garden is very long and sometimes I exit via the back gate but if I'm taking the pushchair due to steps in my garden I have to carry the pushchair to the back gate but to keep children always in hearing I have a baby monitor set up and carry it with me so I can always hear them, when i mentioned to ofsted i sometimes went out straight out my backgate to the playing fields ofsted asked how i safely got the children out i explained and it was all contained in my RA and ofsted commented how I had high regard for always keeping children in sight/hearing, we have to be so careful as I have heard many childminders being pulled up by ofsted on the within sight/hearing requirement.

Sorry that sounds like I'm just talking to you cookiecutter but when I said 'you must ra and be happy...' I was meaning anyone not just you

[KatieFS]

Errr well on one day a week I have 3 ey children to get into a car. 2 are non walkers, so technically I'm leaving 1/2 in the car while I get the others from the house to the car. What are you supposed to do walk/carry them all, leave them in the street/garden while you put children in the car. It's a bit like your damned if you do, your damned if you don't?!?!!'

[k-tots]

Its all about common sense. .....I pivk my ds from nusrey and a cm friend also pick up at the same time...we have come to an agreement that while one goes and picks up our child...the otger looks after the others car..but this would only work if we park next to each other if not and we have to pack further apart both will take the mindees with us.....as it not common sense. .. like wise we would all of done our ra for each of our situations and its that that should be taken into account
When we have inspections rather than box ticking x btw.....I leave children in the car while I take children in and out of the car/house/buggy x

[CookieCutter]

I agree KatieFS, even if 2 were safely strapped in a pushchair whilst you were doing your best to strap the other wriggly one into a car seat, there's a risk someone could come along and steal the pushchair with the 2 kiddies in it and manage to get away from you. There are so many risks that we could just never remove, we couldn't even fathom all of them.

Dawn100, I have actually considered using a baby monitor, but felt it wasn't really needed because the truth is that even if I had the monitor with me, I couldn't get myself back to the kids any quicker than I do now. I have gone out and spent loads on a pushchair that goes from folded to open in an instant so that I don't waste time setting one up. I am down and back up in less than a minute.

[rickysmiths]

I have a driveway but if I have too many walkers to carry and for all of us to leave together they go in the buggy. I then can lock the door and I put the walkers in the car first and then the ones in the buggy and reverse this coming home. My car is 4 ft from my front door and it is a bother in wet and cold weather but that is to me the nature of the job.

I never leave them in the car to pop into a shop, go to a cash machine or pay for petrol. Cash and petrol I sort out in my time. Shopping the mindees come with me.

I never left my own children in the car why would I consider leaving someone else's in the car?

I don't think there are any grey areas when it comes to this. It is a big fat no.

[Simona]

My interpretation of this is the difference between leaving children in the car to pop into a shop or get money from a cash machine when the children are on their own and out of sight and getting children into a car from our home when getting ready to go out?

Surely Ofsted or anyone else will also see the difference in these 2 scenarios?...it is obvious to me that loading children in the car means going backwards and forwards...unless any CM is superhuman and can get 3 under her arms and carry them all at once in the car?
while doing this we can take precautions and ensure children are safe...that is my view of course.

[blue bear]

Can't remember which guidance it was but they used to say we are not to leave children I cars ever,I'm sure it was after ofsted took over the registrations it can't remember the year.

One of my parents asked me to never leave her child in the car not even for a mi ute, she was a solicistor and had handled several cases where children were left just for a minute and tradegy struck, all different scenarios all the same end result.

[Simona]

Can't remember which guidance it was but they used to say we are not to leave children I cars ever,I'm sure it was after ofsted took over the registrations it can't remember the year.

One of my parents asked me to never leave her child in the car not even for a mi ute, she was a solicistor and had handled several cases where children were left just for a minute and tradegy struck, all different scenarios all the same end result.

Did she tell you how we should load children in the car when we have non walkers that need to be taken from the house to the car...then back in the house to collect the other non walkers?

[blue bear]

Did she tell you how we should load children in the car when we have non walkers that need to be taken from the house to the car...then back in the house to collect the other non walkers?

I suppose it's all about risk assesment and juggling it all to keep the children safe and stay within the rules to keep the insurance valid, the rules say within sight or hearing, if you are popping back I to the house to get another one and during that time a Lorry runs into your car and kills the occupants, total accident guy at the wheel has an heart attack will your insurance cover you? I'd say not.

When I had three mon walkers,all my bags went outside the door, pushchair was at the door two in, I carried the other, lock he door, carried child inthe car, other two in the car, bags and pushchair in, children are in my igot or hearing at all times (window slightly open) if that same lorry had hit my car I consider myself covered.

Yes it's a pain getting them all out for a forgotten harness or whatever but thems the rules, withing sight or hearing and I stick to them. Before you take a child on you need to risk assess to make sure you can stick to the rules and remain safe.

[dawn100]

Did she tell you how we should load children in the car when we have non walkers that need to be taken from the house to the car...then back in the house to collect the other non walkers?

My house has alot of steps to the front when I had my pre-reg I was asked how did I plan to get three non-walkers out to the car at the same time, I said as of yet I had not worked out how I would get three non walkers down to the car as at the time I had my daughter who was 3 so I said currently the most other children I would have is two and if they were both non walkers I could carry them down together and stand or sit one in the footwell whilst I strapped the other one in. To which she then pointed out to me that if I left any in the house or car whilst getting the others (due to layout of my house front garden and road) they would not always be in sight or hearing and if I didn't feel I could exit with 3 simultaneously then what would I do in an emergency.
So for that very reason I have turned down work as I had 2 non walkers and didnt feel i could take on a third non walker. It is also from that conversation that I always ensure I stick to the rules of children being in sight or hearing as I wouldn't have a leg to stand on as my answers were all written down at my pre reg so assume they are still recorded somewhere. Hence why in all I do I RA to ensure children are always in my sight or hearing.
Everyone's house etc is different so I would never like to advise anyone else on what they can or can't do I just ensure mine are always in sight or hearing.

[Simona]

You both make very good points and I agree it is up to each CMs to RA and ensure what she is doing keeps her children safe during this procedures....this has made me reflect and I will look at my RA to ensure I have this well covered.

what is really frustrating is that CMs have for the last 35 years made use of the car...it is a perk being able to take them a bit further than the local community...nothing has ever been raised, I assume because no problems have come up in the past.
All of a sudden we have to question over and over again something we do regularly...the EYFS 2008 also had emphasis on safety...is this another issue raised by an individual inspector that is now becoming another matter we need to question?

If this is not to Ofsted approval then they should ask the DfE, who is responsible for writing the EYFS, to amend the requirements and make them 'black and white'!

[rickysmiths]

Did she tell you how we should load children in the car when we have non walkers that need to be taken from the house to the car...then back in the house to collect the other non walkers?

You do what I do and put all the non walkers in a buggy and take all the children to the car together, same in reverse when you get home. You do not leave any children in the house during the process nor do you leave any in the car on your return.

I childminded from a first floor flat for 10 years. I never had more children than I could get out of the flat safely at one time together. This was to get to the car, but it actually has nothing to do with just getting out to the car does it?

If you can't get the children in your car to the car without leaving one or two in the house, irrespective of if you can see or hear them at all times, then how on earth would you get them all out in an emergency? Surely you have to be able to get ALL the children in your car at any time out in one go? If you can't then you seriously need to look at what you are going to do in an emergency evacuation for which you should all have a plan.

[Minstrel]

I think everyone needs to RA their own house and car situation on that. For me, using the pushchair would be ridiculous because I set it up outside and would push it exactly 4 steps! I don't really have a hall and I have a gate on the door that leads into the house which they wait behind (I'm on a main road) so I can see and hear them from 4 steps away at the car door.

[k-tots]

I can carry both my non walkers out to safety once the front/back door is open but can not carry two non walkers to the car...open the car door then seat one child in.. common sense needs to be done/used at all times x