Am i right?

[bunnyjess]

Had parents sign a contract in august to start tomorrow. Paid a deposit etc and gave me set times. Just txt to remind them to bring their communication passport tomorrow and they've txt back saying no problem. I'll be emailing you later as my. Mum is going to have him 1day in the full week and 2 days in the short week (they're on a two week rota). I replied saying that's fine but I'm still going to have to charge you for 4 weeks as per the contract. Am I right in doing so?! I'm a bit annoyed about this to be honest as I've had a lot of enquiry and have had to turn them away as I'm full.

[yummyripples]

I think that you are right
She should have let you know earlier. Not a good start is it

[sarah707]

Oh dear sounds like they are trying to save money :( you are right - but you might lose the business.

Hugs xx

[bunnyjess]

They seem ok about paying the four weeks. I'll see what the email says later. I hate texting people because you never know how to read it

[The Juggler]

oh hon. sorry to hear this but yes 4 weeks notice applies.

[bunyip]

They seem ok about paying the four weeks. I'll see what the email says later. I hate texting people because you never know how to read it

Very sensible. :thumbsup: At least you can store letters and emails in case you need to verify things later.

Hopefully this will turn out to be a positive thing. Maybe mum just wants to have that time with the little chap and is content to stick with the agreement to pay for time she's booked. Also good that she seems to communicate this in advance: gives you a chance to plan your weeks, and far better than a no-show. :)

[Zoomie]

Is the settling in period still functional on the contract?

Even if I did a contract months ago, I always have a settling period for the first few weeks and parents can cancel immediately - although I would keep the deposit.

[bunyip]

Had parents sign a contract in august to start tomorrow. Paid a deposit etc and gave me set times. Just txt to remind them to bring their communication passport tomorrow and they've txt back saying no problem. I'll be emailing you later as my. Mum is going to have him 1day in the full week and 2 days in the short week (they're on a two week rota). I replied saying that's fine but I'm still going to have to charge you for 4 weeks as per the contract. Am I right in doing so?! I'm a bit annoyed about this to be honest as I've had a lot of enquiry and have had to turn them away as I'm full.

Have I been reading this wrong?

It looks to me as if this is just the mum keeping the little chap a home for a few days (hopefully with the CM being paid.)

Is that right or is the parent terminating the contract? :confused:

[bunnyjess]

No they aren't terminating the contact. The dad txt me to say his mum will be having him on certain days. I will have to check the contract to see if I've put in a settling in period or not. If I have can I not charge then? So confused

[bunyip]

It depends on how the contract is worded, but as a general rule I'd say you're entitled to charge for the cancellation of a few days even within any 'settling-in' period.

The purpose of a settling-in period is to give both parties the opportunity to give immediate notice anytime within the first few weeks if it's clearly not working out. It gives the parents a cooling-off period, especially if their lo is coming home unhappy every day, whilst simultaneously protecting the CM from being stuck with the archetypal house-wrecking 'Son/Daughter of Satan'. The word of contracts should, and usually does, reflect this.

The settling-in period is not there to let clients pick and choose their attendance days, nor conversely to let CMs spring a surprise 'day off' on parents.

So I'd definitely be charging and being clear about starting as we mean to go on. Also make sure they know they can't 'swap' days without your prior agreement. Mum may just be thinking she's somehow 'owed' for the days she keeps lo at home. OTOH she could be happy about how everything should be: you don't know until you've spoken with her.

Do you get payment in advance? I certainly recommend it, and especially so if you're getting clients who may want to chop and change at all.

[bunnyjess]

Thank you bunyip that's really helpful. I do get payment in advance yes. The dads just said that he's fine with paying and he's sorry if they've messed me about with times. That's a relief!

[The Juggler]

No they aren't terminating the contact. The dad txt me to say his mum will be having him on certain days. I will have to check the contract to see if I've put in a settling in period or not. If I have can I not charge then? So confused

she still has to give 4 weeks notice to change the hours she originally agreed too, particularly if she wants to continue but on less hours. Just draw up a new contract, but the current one stands for the notice period.

[bunnyjess]

Following on from this post. The dad asked me yesterday if they can use some of their deposit to pay for this week as they can't afford to pay as they've just gone back to work.
I just emailed him saying I can't do this and what day were you planning on paying? I'm a bit stressed by this as I always get paid in advance. They know this and had plenty of time to prepare. Grrr

[bunnyjess]

Anyone help?

[loocyloo]

.... hmm to be honest it is totally up to you and how you feel. You run your own business and its up to you. The only way I would accept them using some of the deposit is if you and they work out a system to pay extra to return the deposit to its full amount. So maybe adding a little extra each month or the full amount used the following month.

[bunyip]

.... hmm to be honest it is totally up to you and how you feel. You run your own business and its up to you. The only way I would accept them using some of the deposit is if you and they work out a system to pay extra to return the deposit to its full amount. So maybe adding a little extra each month or the full amount used the following month.

I agree. I'd be very wary of letting them run down the deposit until it is no deposit at all - then when they eventually leave, they claim they want their deposit back, thank you very much. :p

Like you say, it's annoying cos they've had plenty of time to get organised. Yes, I understand the parents in the sense they almost certainly get their wages in arrears - but I'm willing to bet they've spent money on less important things than childcare over that period. :mad:

[candy cat]

Not a good start.... They have had months to budget so I would be getting a little worried how this was going.....If you plan a holiday months in advance you set a budget to be able to pay it don't you so they should have planned better in my opinion :0)

[bunnyjess]

I know I'm quite annoyed with the whole situation now too if I'm honest. This morning I said that when were you planning on paying and she said they'll have the £140 next Friday. I didn't realise this morning but that's just for this week. So when's she planning on paying next weeks?! Also she said that nan has mixed up her days and she wants to have him on a Tuesday not Wednesday! Grrrr I know he only started on mon but I'm seriously considering giving notice!

[bunnyjess]

I've just messaged her this;
Hi X Just had a thought. I'm not 100% sure if I can do Wednesdays as when you told me you wouldn't need me I told a parent who's on my waiting list that I now have space available. She is coming round tomorrow though so I will let you know for definite tomorrow at about 5pm.
Also in regards to payment, this morning you said you are going to pay this weeks £148.50 next Friday. Were you planning on paying next weeks money then also? As I do ask for payment in advance

Jess

[shortstuff]

I've just messaged her this;
Hi X Just had a thought. I'm not 100% sure if I can do Wednesdays as when you told me you wouldn't need me I told a parent who's on my waiting list that I now have space available. She is coming round tomorrow though so I will let you know for definite tomorrow at about 5pm.
Also in regards to payment, this morning you said you are going to pay this weeks £148.50 next Friday. Were you planning on paying next weeks money then also? As I do ask for payment in advance

Jess

Good for you x start the way you mean to go on x

[bunnyjess]

Thank you Gail x she wasn't responded yet so I'll see what happens x

[Rubybubbles]

I've just messaged her this;
Hi X Just had a thought. I'm not 100% sure if I can do Wednesdays as when you told me you wouldn't need me I told a parent who's on my waiting list that I now have space available. She is coming round tomorrow though so I will let you know for definite tomorrow at about 5pm.
Also in regards to payment, this morning you said you are going to pay this weeks £148.50 next Friday. Were you planning on paying next weeks money then also? As I do ask for payment in advance

Jess

I think you need a sit down face to face meeting not lots of texts ext.

[bunnyjess]

Yea I think I'll say that as it's getting stupid

[Snowwhite]

In future would you perhaps consider getting a contract signed only 3 to 4 weeks before the start date? I have always done that and find i don't get messed about with days and hours as a parent usually knows by then. I've always asked for a deposit though when they have 1st shown interest and that is non-refundable

[bunnyjess]

How do they know their deposit is secure if they don't sign a contract? I thought that's how you hold the place

[rickysmiths]

I would never take a Deposit without a Contract and I won't hold a place for that long without a Retainer fee so would have to have a Contract.

I had a family insist on signing a Contract last Feb and to pay a retainer until they were due to start in Oct. Mum actually decided to go back to work in Sept. They have always paid a month in advance and they got the Childcare Vouchers sorted to start. Perfect.

I have had families come and sign for say full time care a couple of weeks before care and then when they start cut a day or two. I am now strict and if they leave or reduce hours/days in the first six months they loose that % of their Deposit and they pay the original fee for the 4 weeks notice period even if they choose not to use the hours in that time.

[Snowwhite]

guess i never thought of it like that bunnyjess,but i have never had a parent question that and i always give a receipt to the parent once i've been payed the deposit and i have a copy of that receipt,which has my registration number on it.Perhaps its a trust thing and if i've been recommended i'm unlikely to run off with someones money or not give them the place anymore for their child.Wouldn't dream of doing that.
Should i actually be signing the contract then on the same day i get the deposit,even if it was 5 months down the line that they wanted the place? I dont do retainers fees,just a deposit to hold the space for the date they need childcare to start.Works better for me.I can't sleep so thought i may aswell type away on here!

[bunnyjess]

I'm just going to give them notice as I don't think they're going to pay me

[smurfette]

[QUOTE="bunnyjess;1332545"]I'm just going to give them notice as I don't think they're going to pay me[/QUOT

No word then Hun? Is it payment for days you have done or in advance you haven't had?

[bunyip]

I'm just going to give them notice as I don't think they're going to pay me

At the start of this thread, it was just a matter of a parent telling you days they'd not be sending the lo. they seemed prepared to pay for these days and I kinda thought, "well, at least the family is communicating, so maybe nothing to worry about."

But it has now morphed into a situation where the client has had weeks to get the money together and is already in arrears from the word 'go'.

I think you're right to at least consider terminating - or at least to maybe give them one last chance, and to start advertising at the same time.

It's certainly time to draw a line in the sand over payment in advance. Do your contracts allow you to refuse care if payment isn't made in advance? If so, then enforce it - if not, then that needs to apply to all new/reviewed contracts.

Is this client within a settling-in period which permits immediate notice? I'm not telling you to give notice, but if you're decided on that already, then it would be worth considering doing it as quickly as possible to avoid further arrears and that awful period of 'working the notice.' :thumbsup:

[bunnyjess]

Well the situation is now this; they had the invoice given on Monday. I expect payment the next day. I ask parents to pay me in advance either weekly or monthly. Theirs is weekly. On Tuesday their was no payment and when dad came to collect he said he can't pay until next Friday. I then spoke to mum on Thursday morn and said I do ask for Payment in advance so when are you planning on paying? She said they will pay me £148 next week. Me being a bit tired first thing took that to mean she was paying this weeks and next weeks so I said ok.
Then I realised that's only this weeks money. I txt mum about it who didn't reply. This morning when she came I confronted her and said when was she planning on paying next weeks money and reminded her it states in the contract to pay in advance. She said she's paying this weeks overdue money next week and then she'll see if she's got any money left over from her wages to pay me. (Cheek!)
I left it there. My partner was listening upstairs and having been told about the situation he came down when she went and said she's obviously lying and that I should terminate the contract. He's going to help me write an email this weekend (he runs his own plumbing and heating company so is quite clued up about customers/paying).

What do you guys think?

[shortstuff]

I would agree with your oh. It sounds as though this parent is making your invoice the lowest priority. If any priority at all x

[smurfette]

I would agree with your oh. It sounds as though this parent is making your invoice the lowest priority. If any priority at all x

Me too.. Get rid Hun xx

[hectors house]

As you are still in the settling in period, I would give immediate notice - I hope that the deposit they paid in advance covers you for this week's money and chalk it up to experience and a lucky escape otherwise I think you would be posting a new thread in 3 weeks time saying "parent owes 4 weeks money!).

[bunnyjess]

Yes luckily I did take a deposit! Thank you for your support everyone. I'm glad you're agreeing with my decision x

[rickysmiths]

I would not do this by email firstly. Only a proper letter.

Do you use Pacey Contracts?

If you do how did you fill in page 4? There is a section on the right hand side towards the bottom where it gives you the chance to state how long it would be before you terminate childcare if payment is not made. I give five days and if payment is not received then childcare stops until all payments are up to date. If payments are not made the Contract has been broken.


The letter I would be writing this weekend would not be giving them notice, but it would be pointing out that they have broken the terms of the Contract by not paying and that until they pay all arrears you will be unable to provide childcare. (depends on your Contract) If you are not sure ring your PLI Company Legal line and ask for advise before you write anything. If you do it wrong you may find you have to return the Deposit if you terminate the Contract.

[dawn100]

I think a quick call to your insurance company might be advisable just asking them for advice on how best to proceed to ensure you don't have to refund any left over deposit (assuming their is some) however if they've used up most of their deposit and was still in settling in period I might be tempted to give immediate notice and refund any left over deposit.

[bunnyjess]

Just waiting for pacey to call me back...

[candy cat]

I would definitely give notice NOW ......I appreciate some people are in hardship, but to say I will pay the rest if I have enough money left over is just a joke....just tell them you feel messed about after holding a place for so long and you feel it's best to end contract. Let us know how you get on xx

[bunyip]

I would not do this by email firstly. Only a proper letter.

Do you use Pacey Contracts?

If you do how did you fill in page 4? There is a section on the right hand side towards the bottom where it gives you the chance to state how long it would be before you terminate childcare if payment is not made. I give five days and if payment is not received then childcare stops until all payments are up to date. If payments are not made the Contract has been broken.


The letter I would be writing this weekend would not be giving them notice, but it would be pointing out that they have broken the terms of the Contract by not paying and that until they pay all arrears you will be unable to provide childcare. (depends on your Contract) If you are not sure ring your PLI Company Legal line and ask for advise before you write anything. If you do it wrong you may find you have to return the Deposit if you terminate the Contract.

In the light of recent posts, I tend to agree with RS. Also you should contact your insurer/professional representative organisation's legal team to see exactly where you stand.

The problem is that, although it was maybe only a verbal slip-up, you have said you'll accept late payment on this occasion. Having said it, you cannot un-say it. As RS says, you don't want to risk losing the deposit money in this way.

Your legal team will be able to advise as to whether you can enforce immediate notice in such circumstances, and where you stand on retaining the deposit and/or recovering any fees due to you.

[bunnyjess]

Grrrr I called the pacey legal line yesterday who said they would call me back but because I had something urgent come up I called them to ask if they are open tomorrow (today now) and the lady said yes they are! I've just tried to call them and it's only the emergency line for criminal activity that's open :-/ I stared a letter last night so I think I'm going to give them that and call pacey on Monday. I don't think there is much else I can do

[bunnyjess]

I emailed a letter of notice on Saturday and the dad has called me this morning crying. I told him to come and talk to me today but I really don't know what to do. I'm way too soft for this. Was I being too harsh?!

[Becci26]

I emailed a letter of notice on Saturday and the dad has called me this morning crying. I told him to come and talk to me today but I really don't know what to do. I'm way too soft for this. Was I being too harsh?!

Hiya ,
Have just through this thread and no you are not being too harsh, they need to understand that they are paying for a service you provide, you're not a charity!
Have a meeting with dad if you want to but stick to your guns, I have learnt from experience that if things start like this it won't get any better - I am still out of pocket from a parent that never had the money to pay me grrr

[bunnyjess]

Thank you Becci. I'm just a bit soft so I'm a bit worried. I've told dad to come at one for a chat and I'm just going to tell him straight

[smurfette]

Thank you Becci. I'm just a bit soft so I'm a bit worried. I've told dad to come at one for a chat and I'm just going to tell him straight

Hope u get on ok, maybe he has realised he can't mess uou around,, maybe one more chance but no more! Let us know how it goes xx

[smurfette]

How did it go?

[bunnyjess]

Sorry forgot to reply. Went ok. I just told him how it was and said I would give them another chance but they have to communicate properly with me and pay in advance. We'll see how it goes from now on

[tigwig]

Be very careful. It has to now be made crystal clear that they must pay the owed money and the fees due in advance. Make sure the contracts are filled out correctly and if not do another! Then if theres no money theres no childcare no exceptions.