PDA

View Full Version : FEE and retainers



tori4
11-12-2013, 02:12 PM
Question on behalf of a fellow CM

Can a CM change a retainer for non term time hours for a term time only funded hours contract.

Example parents require

12pm-4pm x3 week term time only

Parents n CM will use early years funding for the hours.

CM usually charges retainer for non term time hours to hold the space and as parent is a teacher will not use these hours.

but as they are funded can she charge a retainer?

CM can't not afford minus 12weeks a year sch holidays?? And is not likely to fill the space for Holidays only.

Local authority response is 'computer say noooo'

Thanks in advance xT

yummyripples
11-12-2013, 02:28 PM
Really interesting. I think I would make it part of my contract if the parents refused to pay then I wouldn't offer the place

k1rstie
11-12-2013, 02:45 PM
Computer says 'no' in our borough too!

No top ups, free means free, no exaggerated rates for paid hours, no retainers , no deposits, no admin fees., ( no running, bombing, heavy petting, that kind of thing !)

I can cut and paste our rules if you would like

Mouse
11-12-2013, 02:51 PM
I'd say no. There can be no conditions applied to funded sessions (ie. you can't insist that parents take a certain number of non-funded hours alongside their funded hours if they don't need them).

I think your friend has a choice. Either take the work, but don;t charge anything for the holidays, or don't take the work, explaining to the parent that it is because they can't charge anything for holidays. It's one of the reasons why many childminders don't offer the funded places.

loocyloo
11-12-2013, 02:58 PM
i'd say no. its part & parcel of the FEE that it is free at 'point of delivery' and nothing extra can be charged for those hours.

the CM could have a discussion with mum and say that she usually charges a retainer, and would mum like LO to come one day a week in the hols to keep continuity of care? but if mum says no, then there is nothing to be done.

luckily most of my funded children do more hours with me, and pay for those, and come for all their hours in the holiday.

I have another funded child who uses her core funded hours termtime, might come extra during the school term and pays for it, and sometimes pays to come in the holidays. I have before now, 'saved' funded hours to have child coming over the holidays ( so usually came for 3 x 5hr sessions ... for July, came 2 X 5hr funded sessions, which gave mum 4 x 5hr funded sessions to use during august. not sure if this is 'quite' allowed, but my local 2 yr funding lady said that as long as I provided the hours care I was paid for, then it was between mum & me as to when exactly they were taken! )

Koala
11-12-2013, 03:26 PM
No extra charge, but what you can do is offer the funded place over a stretched period all year round 38 weeks x 15 hours = 570 divided by how many weeks you are open - say 48 weeks = 11.875 hours per week which isn't far off the twelve hours she accesses and is probably acceptable.

So what your friend needs to do is check to see if she is just claiming 12 hours and make sure she claims for the full 15 hours per week over a stretched provision. Offer the year round to mum - its up to her whether she uses it but at least your friend gets paid for it. :thumbsup: everyone wins.

tori4
11-12-2013, 03:59 PM
Thank you peeps what I thought but seemed unfair . My FEE children still come non term time do not had this situation but highlights an issue for future

K1stie could u share ur LA rules - ours just say no, no oh and no but never give explanation :-/

Would like to see how private nurseries cover the cost too? What happens to the staff if half the children d'not come??

line6
11-12-2013, 04:11 PM
When my daughter went to a private nursery that was open all year around we had a choice whether to use 15 hours termtime only and then pay for holidays or use (whatever it works out - see below in thread) less hours over the whole year and top up weekly if more hours used. I can't see why we can't do that as cm's?

Tazmin68
11-12-2013, 05:04 PM
It is a def in with my la too. I had to even argue over wanting to exclude a child for untreated headlice to teach parent a lesson. I had to introduce it in a policy and stipulate that the same exclusion would apply to funded and non funded children.

dawn100
11-12-2013, 08:23 PM
With regards to how nurseries near me do it is that they don't accept children term time only for eithet fee paying or funded, funded places have i think it's 11 hours a week all year round funded, a friend of mine is a teacher and was looking into nurseries and couldn't believe that they would charge all year round, she knows I don't charge retainers but higher hourly rates for term time only.
When you know your losing out with funded places it makes you tempted not to accept term time only children but that only ends up punishing parents and not the people who set the rules!

Simona
12-12-2013, 07:33 AM
Question on behalf of a fellow CM

Can a CM change a retainer for non term time hours for a term time only funded hours contract.

Example parents require

12pm-4pm x3 week term time only

Parents n CM will use early years funding for the hours.

CM usually charges retainer for non term time hours to hold the space and as parent is a teacher will not use these hours.

but as they are funded can she charge a retainer?

CM can't not afford minus 12weeks a year sch holidays?? And is not likely to fill the space for Holidays only.

Local authority response is 'computer say noooo'

Thanks in advance xT

The general answer is NO because the Free Entitlement is only for 38 weeks of the year or term time only...that is my interpretation
Parents are entitled to 15 hrs but can of course choose less as in this case

If this parent does not want her child to attend during the holidays I do not think we can charge a retainer but the parent has to understand that the cm can fill that space by another child who wants it for 52 weeks.

It is really up to the LAs to explain this very clearly to both providers and parents...it is the LAs who set the Local conditions of grant based on DfE guidelines for the funding and therefore their responsibility to make things very clear to all parties involved.

I would go back to the LA and clarify

QualityCare
12-12-2013, 08:28 AM
If child is only using her 15hrs free entitlement then no if she wants extra paid for hours then a retainer can be charged on these hrs only.