PDA

View Full Version : Sorry tiresome ratio question



jadavi
25-11-2013, 06:55 AM
Next feb a mum of a mindee I already have wants me to have her new baby. On one of the days - this will push me into having 7 kids (with an assistant )
Is there no way this is legal due to extra sibling rule? I can also have two assistants that day. Trying to see a way to help her as its the 4th kid and I have had while family and don't want to turn her down. I know we can easily cope.

FussyElmo
25-11-2013, 07:00 AM
Next feb a mum of a mindee I already have wants me to have her new baby. On one of the days - this will push me into having 7 kids (with an assistant )
Is there no way this is legal due to extra sibling rule? I can also have two assistants that day. Trying to see a way to help her as its the 4th kid and I have had while family and don't want to turn her down. I know we can easily cope.

How many children do you have between you and your assistant? If its taking you to 7 between you then I would say thats ok as long as you have the space and you have checked with your planning department :-D

jadavi
25-11-2013, 07:13 AM
Yrs it will be 7 under 5s all day

jadavi
25-11-2013, 07:16 AM
I thought I read 6 was the absolute cut off rule and the flexibility with sibling and continuity care only referred to things like - could have two under one or four under three as long as it never exceeded 6

sarah707
25-11-2013, 07:28 AM
6 is the absolute limit for 1 childminder working on their own.

You can have 7 if you have an assistant BUT...

You need to check you have enough space - Space Requirements - EYFS 2012 (http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/freeresources/Free%20downloads/spacerequirementseyfs2012.html)

AND you might need planning permission for having more than 6 on the premises at a time - so you need to check with your council - you won't be insured if you need it and don't have it.

Hope this helps :D

jadavi
25-11-2013, 08:44 AM
Thanks Sarah xx

jadavi
25-11-2013, 09:23 AM
I thought six for a single child minder was total under 8? I thought it was three under five?
Sorry I know we've been over and over this.....

Mouse
25-11-2013, 09:44 AM
I thought six for a single child minder was total under 8? I thought it was three under five?
Sorry I know we've been over and over this.....

That's something I've never been clear on.

A single cm could have 6 under 8, 3 of those being EYs children. With an exception they could have 4 EYs children, but never more that 6 under 8 in total.

With an assistant they could have 12 under 8s, 6 of those being EYs children. Can an exception still apply, so they could have 7 EYs children as long as they don't go over the total number or 12 under 8? Or is the absolute maximum 6 EYs children unless there is another assistant?

jadavi
25-11-2013, 10:17 AM
Ah thanks - I'm with you. Yes with variations 7 under 5s with an assistant makes sense x
Cheers

birch24
27-11-2013, 09:48 PM
That's something I've never been clear on. A single cm could have 6 under 8, 3 of those being EYs children. With an exception they could have 4 EYs children, but never more that 6 under 8 in total. With an assistant they could have 12 under 8s, 6 of those being EYs children. Can an exception still apply, so they could have 7 EYs children as long as they don't go over the total number or 12 under 8? Or is the absolute maximum 6 EYs children unless there is another assistant?


Yes that's how I understood it too. Maximum 6 under 8. A friend asked if she could have 7 under 5's with an assistant and was told that she couldnt even for a sibling. Sorry xx

Simona
27-11-2013, 10:33 PM
Ah thanks - I'm with you. Yes with variations 7 under 5s with an assistant makes sense x
Cheers

Yes it is always 6 under 8 max but the over 8's do not count so you can have the six plus any older children as long as you have enough provision for them!!

jadavi
28-11-2013, 05:03 AM
I thought Ofsted would not give an answer now telling you instead to work it out.
This is really important. In feb
I'll regularly have 7 due to a sibling . Will this be over numbers?

jadavi
28-11-2013, 05:04 AM
Sorry that sent too early.

Could ask my Ey team.....

birch24
28-11-2013, 06:54 AM
Sorry that sent too early. Could ask my Ey team.....



http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/filedownloading/?file=documents/registration-forms-and-guides/t/The%20numbers%20and%20ages%20of%20children%20that% 20providers%20on%20the%20Early%20Years%20and%20Chi ldcare%20Registers%20may%20care%20for.doc&refer=0


I have found this publication as I work with an assistant an needed to know as well. Hopefully it we'll help in clarifying things:-) xx

jadavi
28-11-2013, 07:18 AM
Thanks Birch

It won't open on my phone
Can you tell me the gist of it?
Cheers x

birch24
28-11-2013, 07:31 AM
Thanks Birch It won't open on my phone Can you tell me the gist of it? Cheers x


The numbers and ages of children that providers on the Early Years and Childcare Registers may care for
A childcare factsheet


Age group: 0–5
Published: December 2012

1. The EYFS sets out the ages and maximum numbers of children up to the age of eight that childminders can look after in paragraphs 3.39 – 3.41. Childminders must take account of the following factors that may limit the numbers and ages they can care for:
 whether there are any other children under eight years of age who they regularly care for, including their own children, any foster children, children of relatives, or any other child they look after regularly without payment – childminders must include these children in the overall number that they may care for in this age range
 any children aged eight and over who they regularly care for, and whether these children affect the space available to younger children or the time the childminder can spend with them – childminders may have to reduce the number of children they look after if they care for older children; we will check if they meet the younger children’s needs at inspection
 whether any children or adults regularly present, including those they provide a childminding service for, have additional needs that require extra care – childminders may have to reduce the number they childmind if children have particular needs
 the space available for childminding: space requirements are set out in paragraph 3.56 of the EYFS – childminders must reduce the number of children they care for if they do not have enough space for the maximum number
 any health or other difficulties they might have that prevent them from caring for some children (such as difficulties in lifting) – if the childminder has such difficulties, we will normally restrict the number of children that they can care for in a condition of registration
 when looking after children overnight, whether they need to reduce the maximum number of children they can care for in order to meet any overnight needs, including sleeping arrangements and being within the hearing of the childminder.
Exceptions to the numbers and ages of children

Looking after more children in the early years age group

2. In some circumstances, childminders may care for more children in the early years age group, providing they do not exceed the maximum number of six children at any one time. These circumstances are exceptional and are not intended to be the norm. How to decide on when to apply such an exception is explained in paragraphs 6–9. Childminders do not have to inform or seek permission from Ofsted to change the number of children they care for. However, they must be able to demonstrate at all times that they meet the needs of all the children who attend. This includes their care needs and helping them to make progress in their learning and development.
3. Paragraph 3.40 in the EYFS allows childminders to care for more than one baby in certain circumstances. Childminders may also care for more children in the early years age group if the children are aged four and five and attend other provision for a normal school day and/or the school holidays.
4. Paragraph 3.29 in the EYFS also allows childminders to care for more children, including babies, in the early years age group through an overarching ‘exceptional circumstances’ statement. In each case, before agreeing to take on a baby or older child as an exception, the childminder must make sure they can continue to meet the needs of all the children who attend, including making sure children are safe and that they receive an enjoyable and challenging learning experience. The childminder must make this decision in relation to each child they care for as an exception. Paragraph 3.29 does not give the permission to operate with more children in the early years age group at all times without an assessment as to whether an exception is appropriate.
5. Ofsted may also restrict the number of children childminders may care for through conditions of registration. We will only do this in circumstances where we judge a childminder cannot care for the full range of children, for example because they have a medical condition that might prevent them from lifting children.
6. In all cases, when deciding to care for additional children in the early years age group childminders should consider:
 the length of time they are providing care
 whether their furniture and equipment is sufficient
 how they will deliver the learning and development requirements of the EYFS to all the children they care for and help them make the best possible progress
 how they organise their day so that all children get enough of their time
 whether they have assessed and mitigated any risks in relation to taking on any additional children, for example through considering how they might have to rearrange play spaces to cope with an extra child or manage outings.
Working with assistants or other childminders

7. If a childminder works with one or more assistants or in partnership with other childminders, they may be able to increase the number of children they care for to a maximum of six aged under eight for each adult caring for the children. However, some of the factors listed above, such as the space available and any restrictions we impose,, may limit the total number. There are also other factors that might prevent a childminder from doing this, which are not part of their registration as a childminder: for example the local authority’s rules for planning permission to run a business, and any tenancy or leasehold arrangement childminders might hold that prevent them from running a business from home. Childminders may wish to check these and also that their public liability insurance allows them to have extra children before deciding to do so.
8. If a childminder is working with assistants or other childminders, each person must meet the ratios at all times. The EYFS allows childminders to leave a childminding assistant unsupervised with children for up to two hours in a single day with parental permission. This permission must be in writing if the childminder is on the voluntary part of the Childcare Register. If childminders choose to leave children alone with an assistant they cannot leave an assistant with more than six children under eight and only three of these children can be in the early years age group and only one of these may be under one.
9. Although childminders may decide to increase the number of children they can care for when working with an assistant or another childminder, they must always tell us if they intend to work with an assistant, or if the people they work with change. This is because the law requires childminders to tell us about all people who are living or working on the premises where childminding is provided so that we can check to see if they are suitable to be in contact with children.
Examples

Example 1

10. A registered childminder is asked to take baby twins two days a week in addition to caring for a child of two full time. Her own children are aged six and seven and she has to take them to and from school. She decides that she can do so as she has made arrangements with the parents to use the twins’ own equipment, and she will use her bedroom as a sleeping area in addition to the areas of her house she already uses. She plans to use the school run as part of the arrangements for outdoor play, as she passes the local park on her way to and from school. She can spend time with the two-year-old while the twins are sleeping on the days they are with her, and plan additional outings to the local children’s centre on the days they are not. She consults the parent of the two-year-old before agreeing to take the twins.
11. We would judge at inspection whether the childminder’s arrangements for outdoor play and for the development of the twins and the two-year-old sufficiently met their needs, which is likely given the arrangements she has put in place.
Example 2

8. An individual has applied to become a childminder. As part of the registration process we undertook a check with her GP. The GP confirmed the childminder’s declaration of her long-standing back condition. This will cause her some difficulty in sitting on the floor and constantly lifting small children. The applicant talked to the inspector at the registration visit and explained she wished to be registered to look after children who need little lifting. She explained how she managers her condition with her own children who are now nine and thirteen years old. Her condition is controlled with regular exercise and pain relief. The applicant is not undertaking any treatment at the hospital and does not need to see a specialist. The applicant has a good understanding about her responsibilities and the requirements childminders must meet.
9. We judge that the applicant is suitable for registration but place a condition on her certificate that only allows her to care for children aged three and over. The applicant is reminded that should her health problem deteriorate to a level that may affect her suitability she should notify us.
Example 3

12. A childminder cares for three children in the early years age group. The parent of one of the children, a two-year-old who is with the childminder from 8am until 2pm, asks if she can extend the hours until 6pm. Her work pattern has changed and she must work full time for the next three months. This would mean that for three days a week the childminder would have four children under the age of five, as she currently looks after a three-year-old for three days between 3pm and 5pm. The parents of both children are keen to maintain continuity of care for their children who are very settled with the childminder. The childminder realises that she needs extra equipment and must change her daily routine so that most of her outings take place when she does not have four children. She borrows extra resources from the childminder resource centre.
13. We would judge at inspection whether the arrangements meet the needs of the children ad they are likely to do so.
Childcare on non-domestic and domestic premises: numbers and ages of children

14. When deciding on the maximum numbers of children they may take, group providers must take into account:
 the adult to child ratios set out in the EYFS paragraphs 3.27 – 3.38
 the children’s needs, including any identified additional needs that may require higher ratios
 the space they have available and how they organise it – the space requirements are set out in paragraph 3.56 and the accompanying footnote of the EYFS
 the ages of the children they take and how these are grouped
 staff qualifications and experience and how they are deployed
 the activities provided and whether these need additional adult support or specific qualifications. This especially applies to those providers on the Childcare Register who may offer, for example, specialist sports provision
 how they notify parents of the arrangements they have in place.
15. The EYFS sets out the minimum adult to child ratios. These ratios apply to all types of group care, including group care provided on domestic premises where four or more people work together. The ratios apply to the total number of staff available to work directly with children across the provision and not within individual spaces or rooms.
16. Many providers do not organise their provision in the age range groups set out in the adult to child ratios in the EYFS and must make decisions about numbers of children and staff in each area or for each group of children based on the needs of the children. When considering staff deployment, providers should take into account:
 the available space and how it is organised
 staff experience
 staff qualifications
 whether children at all times are within the sight or hearing of suitably checked adults who form part of the staff ratio
 the individual needs of children, including:
 what children are doing
 their personal and emotional needs
 the support they need to participate in activities, including any identified additional support
 the way that children are grouped
 times they may need additional support, such as on separating from their parents.
Examples

Example 1

17. A registered provider takes up to 40 children aged three to five years divided into three separate areas. The provider wants to extend its service to allow parents to take advantage of the Government’s offer of free early education for two-year-olds. In order to accommodate two-year-olds, the provider has allocated one of the three areas for children of this age. Its space allows for 16 children aged three to five but only 15 two-year-olds. The provider has two staff working in this area but this number of staff would only support eight two-year-olds. The provider decides to take on one additional staff member so that they may offer places to 12 two-year-olds in total. This is a reduction in overall numbers of four children and the provider intends to adjust information to parents to reduce the maximum number of children to 36 and change the age range. The provider has also bought new equipment more suited to the needs of two-year-olds and has plans to recruit a new staff member with specific expertise with this age group.
18. The provider intends to reduce numbers over time and has plans to offer more places for two-year-olds if take-up is good. The provider does not need to notify Ofsted of these arrangements. We will judge at inspection if the arrangements meet the needs of children. They are likely to do so because the provider has paid attention to the space available, staffing arrangements and the needs of two-year-olds.
Example 2

19. A registered provider looks after eight children with special educational needs in her own home where she employs three other staff to work with her. She wants to extend her house to create a larger space with disabled facilities to allow her to take disabled children. She has notified Ofsted of the additional room as this will affect the space available to children. The provider intends to take two additional children with disabilities and use one additional carer if she finds she cannot support the additional needs.
20. We have noted this information to check at the next inspection, and have brought forward the date of that inspection as we want to make sure that the needs of the children are met.
Example 3

15. An individual has applied to open a day nursery in a large converted house. The downstairs has four large rooms, two bathrooms, a utility area (that will be converted into a nappy changing area), a kitchen and a garden. The applicant intends to use two of the rooms (room A and B – 34.5 m² each) for 3–5-year-olds; one room (room C – 42 m²) for babies and those in nappies; and one room (room D – 60 m²) for toddlers out of nappies up to the age of three. The applicant has indicated on her application form that she intends to care for no more than 60 children at any one time in the four rooms, although the space for each room would indicate that she could take a maximum of 66. She explains to the inspector at the registration visit how she has arrived at this figure and shows the inspector her calculations based on the room sizes deducting space needed for furniture and equipment, including a fixed cupboard for storage.

jadavi
28-11-2013, 07:40 AM
Thank you!

Clear then that each adult can have six each - space and LA permitting and risk assessed carefully.

Do we can have 7 or more.

Did I read it right?

Anyone disagree !?

FussyElmo
28-11-2013, 07:42 AM
Thank you!

Clear then that each adult can have six each - space and LA permitting and risk assessed carefully.

Do we can have 7 or more.

Did I read it right?

Anyone disagree !?

No that's what it says each adult can have 6 under 8

jadavi
28-11-2013, 01:27 PM
Yes but I am

Looking for 7 under three with a variation to I Clyde am assistant.

FussyElmo
28-11-2013, 01:32 PM
Yes but I am

Looking for 7 under three with a variation to I Clyde am assistant.

Yes but exceeding your ratios will be classed as continuity of care :D

jadavi
28-11-2013, 02:49 PM
Thanks

That's what I'm hoping .

jadavi
30-11-2013, 08:33 PM
Had a briefing session today and the DOs running it did not know the answer to this!
Sarah Neville, where did you get your facts from?

Cheers x

Simona
01-12-2013, 09:19 AM
Had a briefing session today and the DOs running it did not know the answer to this!
Sarah Neville, where did you get your facts from?

Cheers x

The EYFS is very clear on this and up to cms to variate their numbers BUT the total number of children under 8 one single Cm can look after is still 6

0-8 years equals 6 children maximum in your care
you can have over 8 on top of this

If unsure ring Ofsted and they can help your individual case but they will tell you it is up to you to work out!

jadavi
01-12-2013, 12:13 PM
Thanks I am clear on that point. One cm can have 6 under 8 and three under 5.

My q is if I can have four under threes with a variation in place - why can't I do that along side an assistant ie she has her permitted three.

Together we have seven between us.

A fellow cm rang ofsted in March and was told no. My safeguarding and improvement DO yesterday said yes. Ofsted will not rule saying you have to choose!!

What would you do?

Lots of people have said I can have six myself and I know that but that is not my question.on my original registration from ofsted before it changed it said - with an assistant - up to 9. Is that my six and her three?
Still doesn't answer can I have 7 under 4s with an assistant and variation in place (with risk assessment and parents signing etc.)

tigwig
01-12-2013, 10:08 PM
Well I hope so because I work with my oh as my assistant and we have 7 under fives twice a week due to 2 parents increasing days. I have written risk assessments, written parent permission and meet all children's needs etc. 2 children out of these are actually at morning nursery so for us the cross over is only for a few hours.

jadavi
02-12-2013, 02:13 AM
Thanks tigwig I'm going to go for it.

Simona
02-12-2013, 07:35 AM
Thanks I am clear on that point. One cm can have 6 under 8 and three under 5.

My q is if I can have four under threes with a variation in place - why can't I do that along side an assistant ie she has her permitted three.

Together we have seven between us.

A fellow cm rang ofsted in March and was told no. My safeguarding and improvement DO yesterday said yes. Ofsted will not rule saying you have to choose!!

What would you do?

Lots of people have said I can have six myself and I know that but that is not my question.on my original registration from ofsted before it changed it said - with an assistant - up to 9. Is that my six and her three?
Still doesn't answer can I have 7 under 4s with an assistant and variation in place (with risk assessment and parents signing etc.)

Jadavi....The advice you have been given here is for ONE CM on her own which means 6 under 8
3 under 5
3 over 5 (up to 8 years)
But of course you can increase the number on under 5s just by following the very clear instruction in the EYFS for self variation
If you have an assistant I am sure the guideline for those who employ assistants will show you what you can do

Please refer to it because only you can decide what you can do in that situation

jadavi
02-12-2013, 08:43 AM
Thanks - that's just the trouble Simone It doesn't spell it out for an assistant and indeed suggests that no you can't have variations when you have an assistant but can only have total of 6 under threes between you. Similarly a colleague was told no when she asked ofsted that very question in march.

At a training yesterday with DOs one said yes, one said no. Guidelines, again, not clear.

However after researching everything and asking everybody I have decided to go ahead with all the cautions in place. A lady on fb has done this and says its all to do with the ages. You can have 1:4 if they are 3 but 1:2 if younger and this is what I am going with.

Thanks for the advice.

Simona
02-12-2013, 02:22 PM
Thanks - that's just the trouble Simone It doesn't spell it out for an assistant and indeed suggests that no you can't have variations when you have an assistant but can only have total of 6 under threes between you. Similarly a colleague was told no when she asked ofsted that very question in march.

At a training yesterday with DOs one said yes, one said no. Guidelines, again, not clear.

However after researching everything and asking everybody I have decided to go ahead with all the cautions in place. A lady on fb has done this and says its all to do with the ages. You can have 1:4 if they are 3 but 1:2 if younger and this is what I am going with.

Thanks for the advice.

Jadavi...I really think you are being given contradictory information and that must make you very confused and unsure
I am not sure who told you about the 1:4 and 1:2 ratio...this does not apply for cms

I am sure if I am wrong someone will correct me but you yourself can have 3 under 5s and your assistant can have the same number...in addition each one of you could variate for continuity of care...so you may end up with 4 under 5s which will leave you only 2 spaces for 5-8...totalling 6 under 8

Do you belong to an association you can ring for support or ring anyone who can explain further...please DM me if I can help and I will gladly talk you through it.

jadavi
02-12-2013, 02:59 PM
Thanks

Ir doesn't actually say you can do the same for yourself and an assistant as you can for a lone cm - in fact it seems to say you can't.

The 1:2 and 1:4 ratio was worked out by another cm who works with assistants to keep them all safe. She was using her common sense which is what she was directed to do by ofsted

I rang ofsted today who Indeed refused to
Comment and said to use my common sense.

Simona
02-12-2013, 03:19 PM
Thanks

Ir doesn't actually say you can do the same for yourself and an assistant as you can for a lone cm - in fact it seems to say you can't.

The 1:2 and 1:4 ratio was worked out by another cm who works with assistants to keep them all safe. She was using her common sense which is what she was directed to do by ofsted

I rang ofsted today who Indeed refused to
Comment and said to use my common sense.

I think you are wrong but we have failed to make you understand you can have more with an assistant...my only suggestion is to direct the question to your association if you have one.

When it comes to having more children it is not 'common sense' it is what you can legally do after RA and informing other parents

Good luck...hope you get it sorted.

jadavi
02-12-2013, 04:53 PM
Can you find me the paragraph Simone? The only paragraph that discusses assistants says a maximum of six little ones together
Variations are only discussed in relation to a lone cm.
ofsted refuses to discuss it and DOs are confused!!
I would love to have this wrong!
I appreciate your continuing help :)

Simona
02-12-2013, 05:53 PM
Can you find me the paragraph Simone? The only paragraph that discusses assistants says a maximum of six little ones together
Variations are only discussed in relation to a lone cm.
ofsted refuses to discuss it and DOs are confused!!
I would love to have this wrong!
I appreciate your continuing help :)

Look at EYFS page 21 This would apply to 1 CM
3.39 At any one time, childminders may care for a maximum of six children under the age of eight20. Of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children21, and there should only be one child under the age of one. Any care provided for older children must not adversely affect the care of children receiving early years provision.

This would apply to 1 CM if she wishes to increase her under 5s number
3.40 If a childminder can demonstrate to parents and/or carers and inspectors, that the individual needs of all the children are being met, then exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby. If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of children under the age of eight being cared for must not exceed six

This bit applies to 1 CM and an assistant...note it says 'EACH'
3.41 If a childminder employs an assistant or works with another childminder, each childminder (or assistant) may care for the number of children permitted by the ratios specified above22. Children may be left in the sole care of childminders’ assistants for 2 hours at most in a single day23. Childminders must obtain parents and/or carers’ permission to leave children with an assistant, including for very short periods of time. For childminders providing overnight care, the ratios continue to apply and the childminder must always be able to hear the children (this may be via a monitor).

I hope I have not interpreted the EYFS wrongly...someone can confirm this maybe...where is that Sarah 707???

sarah707
02-12-2013, 07:26 PM
You are the childminder. This means that you can change the conditions of YOUR registration to allow yourself to have 4 under 5s for continuity of care - NOT new business.

That is what it says in the Eyfs.

As long as you do not exceed 6 under 8 then the rules say YOU can bend the 3 under 5s in the right circumstances, with a RA and parent involvement.

I got it from Ofsted Jadavi - a lady who doesn't work there any more - but who wrote the ratios factsheet.

She also very kindly proofed my factsheets which are in forum free resources - so we know they are right - I didn't want to release incorrect info onto the forum.

...................................

An assistant is under your wing - an assistant does not have the same flexibility as you because they don't have the same training or experience and you are fully responsible for what they do.

So your assistant should stick to 3 under 5 to make sure Ofsted do not get confused.

..................................

If you go ahead with this variation for continuity of care then you will need to make sure your documentation is spot on because it is unusual...

Ring insurance and check they are happy

Go through it carefully and get an ok in writing from your LA - if anyone complains that you are over minding it will be helpful if they have given it you in writing

Ring planning and get what you need to do in writing - if they say no then stop and apply - you can't do it until the application has gone through

calculate your floor space very carefully.

Talk to parents - make sure they all fully understand that, for continuity of care, you are being flexible and keeping within the rules. Also make sure they understand that their child's learning and development will not be affected.

.........................................

Does that all make sense? :D

jadavi
02-12-2013, 08:01 PM
Great Sarah :) thank you.

When you say ring planning -- what do you mean?

jadavi
02-12-2013, 08:07 PM
Oh planning permission? We have three big rooms. I know we have enough space.
Thanks again! Ok decision made :)

FussyElmo
02-12-2013, 08:08 PM
Great Sarah :) thank you.

When you say ring planning -- what do you mean?

Your LA planning department. Some insist on planning permission if you go over 6 under 8, it can also be costly :)

jadavi
03-12-2013, 04:15 AM
Thanks

Will do x

Simona
03-12-2013, 07:39 AM
Thank you for your comments Sarah ...and I hope Jadavi you sort it all out very soon.

I would like to clarify one thing though...the EYFS is written by the DfE and Ofsted inspects us on the legislation and guidance within that framework.

Ofsted inspectors should not in any case try to 'interpret' the EYFS and especially the ratio...all they can do is to judge we have understood the rules and carried out all the necessary steps when we increase our numbers.
The advice given here is correct and EYFS page 21 is very clear on what assistant can have ...it is up to us to act accordingly and, of course, check with LAs on planning permission, do a RA and consider resources and environment very carefully.

Since it was reviewed the EYFS has caused huge concerns to CMs when it comes to the ratio issue and 15 months later we still appear to get very confused as to what we can and cannot do when it comes to the number of children we can care for....some CMs appear very clear while others are not at all clear and seek guidance....many discussions have since taken place on this issue.

Also it would worry me very much if CMs turned work away or failed to help parents in an instance where continuity of care would help families on the basis that another jealous colleague may suspiciously complain to Ofsted and report us for our numbers.

I would safely assume that any CM who does a variation would record this in their SEF where it is available for Ofsted to check the facts and figures

I hope this clarifies the matter although this thread has been far from clear especially the advice from the CM who works with many assistants...so Jadavi I hope you get that clarified very soon for your benefit.

jadavi
03-12-2013, 05:54 PM
Thanks Simone

Sometimes in life there are no easy answers! This is one time.

Ofsted answered my email by quoting an irrelevant paragraph concerning assistants.
Today the young man on the phone at ofsted also quoted the paragraph and refused to interpret it himself but agreed I could be closed down if I interpreted it differently to an inspector!!!!!!!

So yes I have given up looking for evidence and am interpreting it as makes sense to me.
But don't pretend it is crystal clear because it simply isn't!!

birch24
03-12-2013, 07:34 PM
I think what it probably boils down to is that the rules haven't changed with regards to the numbers we can look after, it's just become slightly more flexible within the under 8 age group to allow for us to have an extra child to support a family we already have on our books. But that we should still remain within the 6 under 8s. So if we had 4 under 5s to look after a sibling then we would only have 2 spaces left for over 5s .
That's how I interpret it. Xx

jadavi
03-12-2013, 07:38 PM
Thanks Birch

That makes a lot of sense

Xx