View Full Version : Help. A little scared of a parent! ;-)
I wonder if you can help me - bit of a long story. Two years ago I was looking after a then 8 year old. All was good, signed a contract, everything was good (except the child was a bit annoying and didn't get on very well with my own son - but I sucked that up). Childcare stopped after mum had a baby and was on maternity leave. The baby seems to have sent mum a bit nasty. In September this year the girl came back to me for after school care three days a week. I didn't get around to sorting out a new contract as I was sorting everything out on ********* and was super busy. Anyways she was demanding a preferred rate (I gave in), she has paid late every month (no contract means I couldn't enforce late pymnt fee), snippy texts, and the final straw was being violently ill and being unable to work one day. The night before I sent a 'warning' text to all parents that my son was vomiting and I feel queezy to which everyone replied nicely and sorted alternative childcare the next day, said lady said 'please go ahead and collect my child'. After being sick all night I sent a further text in the morning apologising profusely that I was in no state to collect her child at the end of the day. The reply was distressing suggestions it wasn't good enough and not enough notice given to her and I had better sort something alternative out. In my delusional state I did and informed her, I also stated how disappointed I was at her reaction, for I am only human. My hubby went to collect child tonight from a club and she wasn't there - had gone home. For £140 per month I have decided it's not worth the constant stress so have text notice based on breakdown of relationship among other things. Have also e-mailed a letter. She has come back saying (among other things) she thought it was 'one months notice'. I have advised we don't have an active contract which is why I have offered till the end of the month, then no monies have to change hands - which I always have issues with anyway. SO, my question is this. She appears to be a nasty lady at times. If she contacts Ofsted and 'reports' me for not having a contract, will I get into lots of trouble?
Goatgirl
20-11-2013, 06:29 PM
Hi :),
I don't think you have to have a written contract from Ofsted's point of view, so I wouldn't worry as long as you have all the child records, permissions etc.
So sorry you are having all this stress :group hug::group hug:.
Hope it works out ok and you get no extra hassle from this parent :thumbsup:
Am I right in saying you need a contract, otherwise your insurance is invalid?
sing-low
20-11-2013, 07:00 PM
Am I right in saying you need a contract, otherwise your insurance is invalid?
Possibly. Probably depends on whether the original contract was ever ended and I think that a verbal contract may suffice (but I'm not a lawyer).
OP, I suggest that you document everything from now on. Don't text, write a letter. Hope it gets sorted out soon.
mama2three
20-11-2013, 07:16 PM
Ofsted are unlikely to get involved if she merely complains about the contract - only if she complains about the care.
Is your oh registered as your assistant?
If not then this is where you would possibly be in trouble , although he didn't actually collect the child anyway.
clairer
20-11-2013, 09:57 PM
Poor you it's horrid when parents turn nasty. I really wouldn't worry about her reporting you, you can't keep her on just because you feel blackmailed.
Live and learn, a valuable lesson. We are all constantly learning x x
Poor you it's horrid when parents turn nasty. I really wouldn't worry about her reporting you, you can't keep her on just because you feel blackmailed.
Live and learn, a valuable lesson. We are all constantly learning x x
Thank you all SO much for the comments. Supportive and has given me something to think about xxx
angeldelight
21-11-2013, 09:41 AM
I understand you was busy at first but I'm unsure why you have never sorted out a contract with this parent
Your leaving yourself open in so many ...it's for your protection and the parents in lots of ways
Do you have contracts for the other children ?
Angel xxx
I understand you was busy at first but I'm unsure why you have never sorted out a contract with this parent
Your leaving yourself open in so many ...it's for your protection and the parents in lots of ways
Do you have contracts for the other children ?
Angel xxx
Oh my goodness YES! I have a contract from when she initially started (which had not been terminated when her mum went to maternity leave and she was not in my care for 9 months), which is why I didn't 'rush' to set up a new one. IF she digs out the original one I suppose she would still be within her rights to hold me to that, I'm just hoping she doesn't. And yes, I have contracts with all my other kids too.
angeldelight I sure do have contracts for ALL children, I even have the original one I set up for the girl back before her mum went on maternity leave. SO, if she manages to dig that up she would be well within her rights to hold me to that as I never 'ended' the contract. I'm just hoping she wouldn't want to because she dislikes me so much for some unknown reason.
Can you read this? My replies are not showing??......:panic:
Daftbat
21-11-2013, 06:00 PM
Am I right in saying you need a contract, otherwise your insurance is invalid?
You do not need a contract for your insurance to be valid.
You DO need a child record form or similar document in order to comply with Ofsted - not your insurance company.
It is always advisable to have a contract to protect yourself and to be professional.
Daftbat
21-11-2013, 06:02 PM
If this woman tries to complain to Ofsted they will not be interested as its contractuual. They will be even less interested about whether you have a contract or not. They only insist upon the child record details confirming details about the child not the arrangements you have made regarding fees.
Tatjana
21-11-2013, 10:56 PM
Ofsted have no interest in contracts or contractual disputes, they are only interested in the welfare of the child and you sticking to CM legislations.
Ofsted have no interest in contracts or contractual disputes, they are only interested in the welfare of the child and you sticking to CM legislations.
Thank you!
Koala
22-11-2013, 08:45 AM
Tell her to jog on.....
Ofsted arn't a battering ram to punish us - so don't feel threatened by this.
Advise her that under your human rights you are entitled to feel safe and secure in your work and her actions and demands are contradicting this so with immediate effect you are withdrawing your services. You cannot be forced to provide care.
Just think about what has happened and ask yourself - is she jeopardizing everyone else because she wants something - if the answer is yes - she isn't worth a second thought - don't beet yourself up.
If your worried about contracts - give her four weeks notice and state that you are unable to provide care for those four weeks, end of conversation. But honestly I doubt she has a leg to stand on - she's too busy kicking you with it! cheeky mare.
Good luck and don't let her treat you like this. It's disgusting, anyone in a workplace would have her to a tribunal. :thumbsup:
bunyip
22-11-2013, 09:16 AM
Just a thought (ignore this if it doesn't apply or makes the whole situation too messy.)
If the client is using the original contract (ie. that which applied before her maternity) to argue that she is entitled to the full notice period, then that contract should be applied quid pro quo to her side of the arrangement too. She can't just say the old contract applies, only to use the bits that suit her and ignore the bits that don't. It just doesn't sit right. So you might be within your rights to issue her a revised invoice: no "preferred rate"; add in the late charges; and possibly even charge for non-attendance during the maternity period (subject to whatever you'd agreed for that time.)
Take legal advice on this.
Just a thought (ignore this if it doesn't apply or makes the whole situation too messy.)
If the client is using the original contract (ie. that which applied before her maternity) to argue that she is entitled to the full notice period, then that contract should be applied quid pro quo to her side of the arrangement too. She can't just say the old contract applies, only to use the bits that suit her and ignore the bits that don't. It just doesn't sit right. So you might be within your rights to issue her a revised invoice: no "preferred rate"; add in the late charges; and possibly even charge for non-attendance during the maternity period (subject to whatever you'd agreed for that time.)
Take legal advice on this.
Bunyip: That is SUCH a good idea! I haven't heard from her since Thursday. On one hand I am thinking 'phew' and on the other hand I am thinking 'what is she plotting'? I will defo bear in mind what you say about the contract though and will use it to my advantage if I have to. xx
Tell her to jog on.....
Ofsted arn't a battering ram to punish us - so don't feel threatened by this.
Advise her that under your human rights you are entitled to feel safe and secure in your work and her actions and demands are contradicting this so with immediate effect you are withdrawing your services. You cannot be forced to provide care.
Just think about what has happened and ask yourself - is she jeopardizing everyone else because she wants something - if the answer is yes - she isn't worth a second thought - don't beet yourself up.
If your worried about contracts - give her four weeks notice and state that you are unable to provide care for those four weeks, end of conversation. But honestly I doubt she has a leg to stand on - she's too busy kicking you with it! cheeky mare.
Good luck and don't let her treat you like this. It's disgusting, anyone in a workplace would have her to a tribunal. :thumbsup:
Koala, perfect, glad I'm not the only one with these thoughts xx
I thought it had gone a little quiet on her front and low and behold I awoke to an e-mail from her this morning. It read like this:
ALA,
We have reviewed all of the days that you cared for our daughter *** against the payments that we have made. You have cared for our daughter for a total of 19 days since her return to your childcare in September. Therefore we have overpaid for childcare services by £233.51 as the monthly amount was an average spread over 12 months but you have not provided the service agreed for the agreed period.
Please can you ensure the above overpayment is sent to our bank account within the next 5 working days to resolve this.
NOW, firstly I thought she was simply referring to the days I could have had her but she was on trips/at doctors/at clubs, so I thought 'you can jog on love'. Then I worked out how many day's I SHOULD have had her and this figure is actually 30 days. My issue however, is that she is correct that because I averaged out over the year (including inset days/Hols) she should have paid £303.75 and infact paid £425.88. I have nothing in my pymnt terms about return of fee's on end of contract based on the fact I average pymnt's out. I could easily charge her late pymt fee's for the past three months but I didn't detail that in my original contract AND if I start referring to contract, she could bring up the fact I advised we didn't have a current or active one. If this is confusing you, you are not alone. I don't know what to do about this one? HELP!!!
AdeleMarie88
06-12-2013, 02:20 PM
I thought it had gone a little quiet on her front and low and behold I awoke to an e-mail from her this morning. It read like this: ALA, We have reviewed all of the days that you cared for our daughter *** against the payments that we have made. You have cared for our daughter for a total of 19 days since her return to your childcare in September. Therefore we have overpaid for childcare services by £233.51 as the monthly amount was an average spread over 12 months but you have not provided the service agreed for the agreed period. Please can you ensure the above overpayment is sent to our bank account within the next 5 working days to resolve this. NOW, firstly I thought she was simply referring to the days I could have had her but she was on trips/at doctors/at clubs, so I thought 'you can jog on love'. Then I worked out how many day's I SHOULD have had her and this figure is actually 30 days. My issue however, is that she is correct that because I averaged out over the year (including inset days/Hols) she should have paid £303.75 and infact paid £425.88. I have nothing in my pymnt terms about return of fee's on end of contract based on the fact I average pymnt's out. I could easily charge her late pymt fee's for the past three months but I didn't detail that in my original contract AND if I start referring to contract, she could bring up the fact I advised we didn't have a current or active one. If this is confusing you, you are not alone. I don't know what to do about this one? HELP!!!
This is where you need a up to date contract. I can't see any way around this but for you to send the payment back to mom!
Koala
06-12-2013, 02:21 PM
I would charge for days she had booked (whether she attended or not) calculate the difference from the average payments and take it from there, If you stipulate charges for late payment add those (this could give you a lee way if you are willing to drop them - as goodwill) yes I would refund if she had over paid, I think that would be fair for my own peace of mind.
This is where you need a up to date contract. I can't see any way around this but for you to send the payment back to mom!
:-( was afraid you were going to say that. SO unfair though. I was always so nice, friendly, helpful etc. and all she has done is be nasty and ungrateful. Them's the apples though I suppose.
I would charge for days she had booked (whether she attended or not) calculate the difference from the average payments and take it from there, If you stipulate charges for late payment add those (this could give you a lee way if you are willing to drop them - as goodwill) yes I would refund if she had over paid, I think that would be fair for my own peace of mind.
Yeah, I work that out to be £122.14 I owe her. Think I need to get online and let all parents know that from now on, if contract end's before the end of payments, I will not be refunded anything. Urrghhhhh. Hate x
ziggy
06-12-2013, 04:21 PM
Yeah, I work that out to be £122.14 I owe her. Think I need to get online and let all parents know that from now on, if contract end's before the end of payments, I will not be refunded anything. Urrghhhhh. Hate x
this is very reason i just ask parents to pay weekly or monthly for contracted hours and half fees for booked holidays, couldnt cope any other way. Sorry this has happened to you just before christmas as well, big hugs
Koala
06-12-2013, 04:35 PM
Just a thought - does she pay in vouchers? if so - no refund - youy could return funds to voucher company eventually
AdeleMarie88
06-12-2013, 04:51 PM
:-( was afraid you were going to say that. SO unfair though. I was always so nice, friendly, helpful etc. and all she has done is be nasty and ungrateful. Them's the apples though I suppose.
I know sorry love! There's just jo helping some!
Tazmin68
06-12-2013, 05:02 PM
Def as koala said if paid throughout childcare vouchers then refund has to be to the voucher company this is due to money laundering.
Deb
Def as koala said if paid throughout childcare vouchers then refund has to be to the voucher company this is due to money laundering.
Deb
No, this one wasn't through childcare vouchers. Huff.
bunyip
09-12-2013, 09:04 AM
Yeah, I work that out to be £122.14 I owe her. Think I need to get online and let all parents know that from now on, if contract end's before the end of payments, I will not be refunded anything. Urrghhhhh. Hate x
Do be very careful about that idea.
I would at the very least take legal advice before introducing that condition. IIUC you are suggesting that if a parent has paid for more care than has been provided, then tough on them, and you can keep the money. You'd be on very dodgy ground, and maybe in line for a call from the researchers at BBC Watchdog.
My guess is that it's a legally 'unconscionable' or unfair condition, which would probably be completely unenforceable and might possibly negate the whole contract. :(
hectors house
09-12-2013, 09:13 AM
I used to have 2 teacher's children, to make life easier for both of us the parent asked to pay an average fee each week for 39 weeks at full fee and 13 weeks at 1/2 fee retainer. I wrote into the contract that I would still keep a running total for childminding fees used to date as depending on the holidays sometimes I owed her money and at other times she owed me - I also wrote into the contract that if the contract was terminated partway through the year that either one of us would be liable to pay or pay back money.
It does look like you are going to have pay some money back - calculate the number of days used or booked, notice period etc - you can only charge late fees if you have informed the parents in advance that this is your proceedure.
Do be very careful about that idea.
I would at the very least take legal advice before introducing that condition. IIUC you are suggesting that if a parent has paid for more care than has been provided, then tough on them, and you can keep the money. You'd be on very dodgy ground, and maybe in line for a call from the researchers at BBC Watchdog.
My guess is that it's a legally 'unconscionable' or unfair condition, which would probably be completely unenforceable and might possibly negate the whole contract. :(
Thank you Bunyip, I suppose I am just tired of being taken advantage of. You are absolutely right. I have updated my contracts as per the correct and moral process. Thanks for your views.:)
I used to have 2 teacher's children, to make life easier for both of us the parent asked to pay an average fee each week for 39 weeks at full fee and 13 weeks at 1/2 fee retainer. I wrote into the contract that I would still keep a running total for childminding fees used to date as depending on the holidays sometimes I owed her money and at other times she owed me - I also wrote into the contract that if the contract was terminated partway through the year that either one of us would be liable to pay or pay back money.
It does look like you are going to have pay some money back - calculate the number of days used or booked, notice period etc - you can only charge late fees if you have informed the parents in advance that this is your proceedure.
Hectors House, thank you so much. Your example has made me review my own process and I will be doing something similar to you in the future. You live and learn xx:)