Unannounced OFSTED call at 7am

[TooEarlyForGin?]

Simona/Sarah,

There is a thread running on the independent chilmdinders page on FB that a childminder had a knock at the door at 7am from an OFSTED inspector claiming they were in the area doing "spot checks". She is in the Bradford area, and turned her away as had something planned, and said she will call OFSTED later to check if this was above board, as how can she check an inspectors credentials at 7am.

Even if there was a complaint surely 7am is appalling, these are our homes, how far can they go?

Just thought you might like to know if you are speaking to anyone with regards to the OFSTED big conversation.

[Simona]

Simona/Sarah,

There is a thread running on the independent chilmdinders page on FB that a childminder had a knock at the door at 7am from an OFSTED inspector claiming they were in the area doing "spot checks". She is in the Bradford area, and turned her away as had something planned, and said she will call OFSTED later to check if this was above board, as how can she check an inspectors credentials at 7am.

Even if there was a complaint surely 7am is appalling, these are our homes, how far can they go?

Just thought you might like to know if you are speaking to anyone with regards to the OFSTED big conversation.

Thank you for sharing...unless that cm complains personally to Ofsted nothing will be done as we cannot speak for her or even read her comments as FB is not an open forum and will not be taken seriously
please tell the cm to report it so Ofsted can act upon it...she could email Ofsted directly rather than ringing them as it is a very long winded process now....I hope she did take the inspector's name?

Thank you again

[TooEarlyForGin?]

She has contacted OFSTED and been told that the inspector had forgotten to change her watch when the clocks changed, which is why she was so early. Apparently someone has reported a that a minder doing a school run at a local school is over her numbers, so they are checking all minders in a 3 mile radius, instead of the common sense approach of waiting at the school in question.

Sounds like excuse after excuse to bump her quota up......

[clairer]

If I had a spot check I would not answer the door. My home is my home as well as a business. AND at 7 am I would be in my pyjamas and getting my own children ready and NOT open for business!

[bunyip]

She has contacted OFSTED and been told that the inspector had forgotten to change her watch when the clocks changed, which is why she was so early. Apparently someone has reported a that a minder doing a school run at a local nursery is over her numbers, so they are checking all minders in a 3 mile radius, instead of the common sense approach of waiting at the school in question.

Sounds like excuse after excuse to bump her quota up......

They really know how to deploy their resources efficiently, eh? :panic:

[Kiddleywinks]

She has contacted OFSTED and been told that the inspector had forgotten to change her watch when the clocks changed, which is why she was so early. Apparently someone has reported a that a minder doing a school run at a local school is over her numbers, so they are checking all minders in a 3 mile radius, instead of the common sense approach of waiting at the school in question.

Sounds like excuse after excuse to bump her quota up......

Really!! Clocks went back weeks ago so inspector must be wondering why she's early and late for different events....

If they're going to make excuses they really should try harder to make them at least plausible!

[SwanLake]

She has contacted OFSTED and been told that the inspector had forgotten to change her watch when the clocks changed, which is why she was so early. Apparently someone has reported a that a minder doing a school run at a local school is over her numbers, so they are checking all minders in a 3 mile radius, instead of the common sense approach of waiting at the school in question.

Sounds like excuse after excuse to bump her quota up......

Oh deary me, if the inspector cannot even do a simple task such as changing her watch nearly 3 weeks after the clocks went back then how can we be assured that her inspecting skills are suitable........

[Mouse]

Unbelievable - the excuse that is! What a rubbish reason!

I saw on FB that the inspector clarified it, saying it was an old watch she's put on today, so didn't realise it was wrong. But I would assume she's probably looked at her phone at some time, or her laptop, or tablet, or her alarm clock, or at the TV, or at the clock in her car, or listened to a radio. Surely she must have done at least one of those things and seen or heard the time. Perhaps someone could give her a shovel to dig her whole a little deeper.

But it would seem Ofsted are backing her excuse and accept as being reasonable. The whole thing sounds fishy - they're doing spot checks all all childminders in a 3 mile radius as there's been a report that someone at an unspecified school is over their numbers? I'm sorry, but it's all rubbish. Why are inspectors coming up with these excuses and why are Ofsted accepting them, but denying it's happening?

Talking with cm friends this week it seems we're all living in fear of a random knock at the door. Several are already talking of packing in cming as they can't cope with the stress of it? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but how long till we're hearing that this wouldn't happen if you were with an agency :panic:

[SwanLake]

Unbelievable - the excuse that is! What a rubbish reason!

I saw on FB that the inspector clarified it, saying it was an old watch she's put on today, so didn't realise it was wrong. But I would assume she's probably looked at her phone at some time, or her laptop, or tablet, or her alarm clock, or at the TV, or at the clock in her car, or listened to a radio. Surely she must have done at least one of those things and seen or heard the time. Perhaps someone could give her a shovel to dig her whole a little deeper.

But it would seem Ofsted are backing her excuse and accept as being reasonable. The whole thing sounds fishy - they're doing spot checks all all childminders in a 3 mile radius as there's been a report that someone at an unspecified school is over their numbers? I'm sorry, but it's all rubbish. Why are inspectors coming up with these excuses and why are Ofsted accepting them, but denying it's happening?

Talking with cm friends this week it seems we're all living in fear of a random knock at the door. Several are already talking of packing in cming as they can't cope with the stress of it? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but how long till we're hearing that this wouldn't happen if you were with an agency :panic:

Im with you on this - are they trying to 'push' us into going with agencies....

[AdeleMarie88]

Unbelievable - the excuse that is! What a rubbish reason! I saw on FB that the inspector clarified it, saying it was an old watch she's put on today, so didn't realise it was wrong. But I would assume she's probably looked at her phone at some time, or her laptop, or tablet, or her alarm clock, or at the TV, or at the clock in her car, or listened to a radio. Surely she must have done at least one of those things and seen or heard the time. Perhaps someone could give her a shovel to dig her whole a little deeper. But it would seem Ofsted are backing her excuse and accept as being reasonable.

It's just a lie, there is no way that is a reasonable response! Like you say, unless she is walking around getting ready for work with a bag on her head, there is no way that's the truth. Not to mention how dark it is at 7am!!!

This is a worry, what are Ofsted playing at. Not only is this a massive waste of valuable *cough cough* resources, what do they expect to achieve? If someone knocked on my door at 7am, they wouldn't get an answer. If they knocked on my door at 8am, they wouldn't get much done as we are rushing around getting breakfast, cleaned, shoes coats on and out for the half past 8 school run!

Whilst it is useful to hear these stories, it also makes people fearful, and we don't know all the facts. If she was over ratios, she should be complained about, and she should be having an unannounced inspection. Whilst the early call is out of order, I hope the CM in question wasn't just trying to deflect the blame because she is at fault in the first place! X

[Daftbat]

If I had a spot check I would not answer the door. My home is my home as well as a business. AND at 7 am I would be in my pyjamas and getting my own children ready and NOT open for business!

Whilst I sympathize with this thinking Ofsted are legally able to enter your property (given you answer the door)! It wouldn't go in your favour to refuse enty to an inspector. They are reasonable though normally and won't hold you up if you are on a school run or have an appointment.

[WibbleWobble]

this is intimidation.....

if this was a work based scenario we could claim for bullying and if we gave up childminding...constructive dismissal!

wibble xxx

[Bluebell]

Whilst I sympathize with this thinking Ofsted are legally able to enter your property (given you answer the door)! It wouldn't go in your favour to refuse enty to an inspector. They are reasonable though normally and won't hold you up if you are on a school run or have an appointment.


But if it's not your normal opening hours is it still their legal right? And if you are not happy with who they are - ie can't phone ofsted to check - then surely we are definitely in our right to refuse entry in the interests of safety and security?

[Simona]

I can't recall if inspectors can do 'spot checks'...my understanding is either a scheduled inspection and we get a quick call in advance to warn us ...or a complaint triggered one when the inspector can arrive announced.

I checked the Framework for the regulation of provision and I cannot find any reference to 'spot checks'...maybe someone can look at p 12-13 in case I missed it?
Ofsted | Framework for the regulation of provision on the Early Years Register (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/framework-for-regulation-of-provision-early-years-register)

[shortstuff]

this is intimidation.....

if this was a work based scenario we could claim for bullying and if we gave up childminding...constructive dismissal!

wibble xxx

Well said Wibble x

What a very poor excuse. Oh and if the inspector was hoping to find a cm over numbers for the school run why not wait till school time? I have 1 child arrive at 7 but the others arent here till after 8. I'm sure others are similar. Im never over numbers but how would a 7am visit give any clarification?

[AdeleMarie88]

I can't recall if inspectors can do 'spot checks'...my understanding is either a scheduled inspection and we get a quick call in advance to warn us ...or a complaint triggered one when the inspector can arrive announced. I checked the Framework for the regulation of provision and I cannot find any reference to 'spot checks'...maybe someone can look at p 12-13 in case I missed it? Ofsted | Framework for the regulation of provision on the Early Years Register (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/framework-for-regulation-of-provision-early-years-register)

I don't think spot checks are allowed, but I think we should question the accuracy of the post from the CM on fb. Reading between the lines, it seems more likely that she was over ratio during her school runs, and an inspector, albeit exceptionally early, came to inspect her because of it. I severely doubt Ofsted will do on the spot inspections, they just don't have the man power for that kind of thing!

[KatieFS]

Mrs O would not have a warm welcome from us at 7am, I would not even be up! Ridiculous!

My published opening hours are 8-5.30 so if she comes outside that time, she will be waiting on her car or on her way.

[Mouse]

I don't think spot checks are allowed, but I think we should question the accuracy of the post from the CM on fb. Reading between the lines, it seems more likely that she was over ratio during her school runs, and an inspector, albeit exceptionally early, came to inspect her because of it. I severely doubt Ofsted will do on the spot inspections, they just don't have the man power for that kind of thing!

I do agree we should consider that there is always another side to the story, although that doesn't explain the excuse the inspector gave for arriving so early!

And just because spot checks aren't allowed, it doesn't mean they don't happen. It's like Ofsted saying unannounced routine inspections don't happen, when it would appear they do.

[TooEarlyForGin?]

I don't think spot checks are allowed, but I think we should question the accuracy of the post from the CM on fb. Reading between the lines, it seems more likely that she was over ratio during her school runs, and an inspector, albeit exceptionally early, came to inspect her because of it. I severely doubt Ofsted will do on the spot inspections, they just don't have the man power for that kind of thing!

Then why would the inspector lie?

Surely if she was investigating because of a complaint she would have apologised how early she was and waited in the car. I haven't read anything in-between the lines of this post. She has contacted OFSTED and received an apology from the inspector with the excuse about her watch being wrong, and is going to follow it up with a complaint/comment on being contacted by them that early in the morning, she only had her registration visit 2 months ago, I doubt she would be packing them in when she is so new and knowing she will be due a full inspection soon. If she was trying to hide something, would she do all this?

[Lottie]

7 am is an unacceptable time and Ofsted phone lines aren't open at this time, so no way of making sure she is legit. For one example, what about my safety and my children's allowing someone claiming to be Ofsted into my house?

By the way the only way Ofsted can enforce entry into your house is with a document authorised by HMCI, which is issued in extreme situations as far as I'm aware. So unless Mrs O rolled up with this, I think it would be perfectly acceptable to tell her to come back later regardless of her legal power.

Even a complaint driven spot inspection comes at a reasonable time of day, i.e during normal working hours.

[AdeleMarie88]

Then why would the inspector lie? Surely if she was investigating because of a complaint she would have apologised how early she was and waited in the car. I haven't read anything in-between the lines of this post. She has contacted OFSTED and received an apology from the inspector with the excuse about her watch being wrong, and is going to follow it up with a complaint/comment on being contacted by them that early in the morning, she only had her registration visit 2 months ago, I doubt she would be packing them in when she is so new and knowing she will be due a full inspection soon. If she was trying to hide something, would she do all this?

I just don't for a second believe that they have inspectors doing on the spot checks within a three mile radius. The facts seem very woolly, i don't think we have the full story. ofsted make it easy for us to be down on them, but this isn't normal behaviour for inspectors, so there must be more to it than what we know! Whether CM is withholding truths from her post, who knows, but doubts is is going to become standard practice.

As I said in previous post, to arrive at 7am, for what ever reason is far far to early, and inspectors retort about old watch, is rubbish! It seems fishy to me!

[rickysmiths]

She has contacted OFSTED and been told that the inspector had forgotten to change her watch when the clocks changed, which is why she was so early. Apparently someone has reported a that a minder doing a school run at a local school is over her numbers, so they are checking all minders in a 3 mile radius, instead of the common sense approach of waiting at the school in question.

Sounds like excuse after excuse to bump her quota up......

The clocks went back at the end of October so if she forgot to put her watch back then she would have thought it was 8am. However unless the visit was on Monday 28th October the first weekday after the clocks went back she must be quite dozy to have been able to work, watch telly, use a computer and not realise the clocks had changed!!

[lizduncan72]

Well said Wibble x

What a very poor excuse. Oh and if the inspector was hoping to find a cm over numbers for the school run why not wait till school time? I have 1 child arrive at 7 but the others arent here till after 8. I'm sure others are similar. Im never over numbers but how would a 7am visit give any clarification?

I have no children at 7am except my own, first mindee arrived at 8am. Any inspector coming at 7 would find my kids either in bed or in various states of dress/undress and my DH wandering around in his underwear-enough to put anyone off coming in lol !!! No way would an inspector be getting in at that time of day

[AdeleMarie88]

I find it very odd, 7am or 8am it's exceptionally unusual, I have never ever heard of this before...which is why I think there is more to it than we know! Who is to say this CM is not eggagerating on fb? I don't know, without all the facts, I don't think it is worth while getting to hung up about it!

[miffy]

But if it's not your normal opening hours is it still their legal right? And if you are not happy with who they are - ie can't phone ofsted to check - then surely we are definitely in our right to refuse entry in the interests of safety and security?

I agree with this - I do not think they have any legal right to enter your home outside of your working hours.

Miffy xx

[sarah707]

Ofsted are our regulator and can inspect us when we are open for business.

If you say that you are open between the hours of 7 am and 6 pm then they can turn up to inspect you at any time during those hours.

If you refuse them entry they can ask the police to back them up - and the police have wide ranging powers of entry.

You can delay them by saying you want to ring the office and check they are who they say they are - that is your right - but you cannot refuse entry in working hours.

they have a right to check you are working within numbers - to speak to parents as they arrive - to check your home is safe and ready to receive children etc.

There are 2 sides to every story and I'm not sure we are hearing the whole thing on the FB page - but that is the member's prerogative.

Ho hum things are going from bad to worse and panic is spreading :(

[Simona]

Ofsted are our regulator and can inspect us when we are open for business.

If you say that you are open between the hours of 7 am and 6 pm then they can turn up to inspect you at any time during those hours.

If you refuse them entry they can ask the police to back them up - and the police have wide ranging powers of entry.

You can delay them by saying you want to ring the office and check they are who they say they are - that is your right - but you cannot refuse entry in working hours.

they have a right to check you are working within numbers - to speak to parents as they arrive - to check your home is safe and ready to receive children etc.

There are 2 sides to every story and I'm not sure we are hearing the whole thing on the FB page - but that is the member's prerogative.

Ho hum things are going from bad to worse and panic is spreading :(

Just a question popped into my mind...if a cm decides to ring Ofsted to 'verify' the inspector's identity after checking passes etc, which we know she/he can do ...at what time does Ofsted open its phone lines in the morning? 7 am? never entered my mind to question that.

[blue bear]

I keep wondering how far the inspector travelled, ours are usually a good hour away, that's an early start for the inspector. My alarm goes off at 7 no way would I be answering the door.

[Tulip]

Perhaps Mrs O was doing her job in her sleep, yep sleepwalking!

[cathtee]

[QUOTE=TooEarlyForGin?;1320954]She has contacted OFSTED and been told that the inspector had forgotten to change her watch when the clocks changed, which is why she was so early


Clocks changed 3 weeks ago that is such a poor excuse has she only got one clock, I wouldn't even be up at that time she would be standing around for quite a while

[tigwig]

Could someone clarify is it acceptable to turn ofsted away if you are having a day off and will not have any mindees in your house that day? Its my birthday tomorrow and im not working. .. now have visions of ofsted turning up unannounced lol. Im going shopping for the day and whilst I would be happy to let them in and explain myself I would not be prepared to give up my days plans! Would that be acceptable?

[Porridge]

I would like this clarified too please. I had an ofsted 'compliance' person knock unannounced once while my business was closed(holidays), and she told me I had to let her in. I would love to know for sure where we stand on this...

[Mouse]

I would like this clarified too please. I had an ofsted 'compliance' person knock unannounced once while my business was closed(holidays), and she told me I had to let her in. I would love to know for sure where we stand on this...

My understanding is that if it's a compliance visit you have to let them in, whether you're working or not.

I would like to know if you have to let them in on days you're not working. I'd certainly be really angry if I had to have an inspection when I had no children here. I wouldn't be able to maintain my current grade, but it wouldn't be because of anything I could control.

[AdeleMarie88]

My understanding is that if it's a compliance visit you have to let them in, whether you're working or not.

I would like to know if you have to let them in on days you're not working. I'd certainly be really angry if I had to have an inspection when I had no children here. I wouldn't be able to maintain my current grade, but it wouldn't be because of anything I could control.

At the beginning of the year I had an inspection, Mrs O called to say she would be here tomorrow I told her I had no children that dau, by chance holidays overlapped, so she said fine no point inspecting you, will come following week...

I don't know what is standard practice, but as inspectors tend to inspect in morning and write report in the afternoon, if it doesn't suit them coming back, they may not be the flexible!

As always with ofsted there are inconsistencies. Am I right in thinking inspectors are not really employed, they are freelance?! I'm sure I have read that on here before...
That may explain why ever experience on here differs so much!

[jadavi]

I was inspected for a compliance visit (if that means following a complaint) and she still rang in advance to check I was going to be there.
Yes I believe they are all freelance but have extensive training first.

[jadavi]

Ofsted open at 9. I've waited often enough!

I also see no reason to disbelieve the Facebook childminders story regardless if she was over numbers or not.
She had decided to believe the Ofsted woman story about the watch and not submit a complaint I believe.
I am shocked they can literally force an entry. I didn't realise that. I have always told my assistants if I am away never to let anyone in on any account.

[Simona]

Ofsted open at 9. I've waited often enough!

I also see no reason to disbelieve the Facebook childminders story regardless if she was over numbers or not.
She had decided to believe the Ofsted woman story about the watch and not submit a complaint I believe.
I am shocked they can literally force an entry. I didn't realise that. I have always told my assistants if I am away never to let anyone in on any account.

thank you for confirming that...
We still have not had anything to clarify if Ofsted can carry 'spot checks' and what are they exactly?

[lilac_dragon]

My understanding is that if it's a compliance visit you have to let them in, whether you're working or not.

I would like to know if you have to let them in on days you're not working. I'd certainly be really angry if I had to have an inspection when I had no children here. I wouldn't be able to maintain my current grade, but it wouldn't be because of anything I could control.

2 Inspections ago (6years now) I was contacted by Mrs O who announced she was coming the following day, Friday, as she was "doing this area this week".
I told her I didn't Have children on a Friday until after school, as my only EYFS at that point was part time, the others having gone into Reception that term. Could we re-schedule for a different day the following week.
She said No and that if I didn't have any pre-schoolers there for the inspection then she could only inspect for the older children so I would have to come off the Register to look after the younger ones. I tried to talk her into re-scheduling but she was adamant that it was tomorrow or nothing!
I had to phone my part timers Mum and ask her to ask me to do an emergency cover with the lo so that she was there for the Inspection. She was fine about it but lo wasn't as she was expecting to go swimming with her Gran, so she played up, I was cross and stressed and the Inspector was a really unpleasant woman!!!

[sarah707]

My understanding is that if it's a compliance visit you have to let them in, whether you're working or not.

I would like to know if you have to let them in on days you're not working. I'd certainly be really angry if I had to have an inspection when I had no children here. I wouldn't be able to maintain my current grade, but it wouldn't be because of anything I could control.

That is my worry as well...

It appears that it is up to the inspector - some will come back and some won't.

However, if it's a compliance visit and that turns into a full inspection then you have no choice...

[munch149]

2 Inspections ago (6years now) I was contacted by Mrs O who announced she was coming the following day, Friday, as she was "doing this area this week". I told her I didn't Have children on a Friday until after school, as my only EYFS at that point was part time, the others having gone into Reception that term. Could we re-schedule for a different day the following week. She said No and that if I didn't have any pre-schoolers there for the inspection then she could only inspect for the older children so I would have to come off the Register to look after the younger ones. I tried to talk her into re-scheduling but she was adamant that it was tomorrow or nothing! I had to phone my part timers Mum and ask her to ask me to do an emergency cover with the lo so that she was there for the Inspection. She was fine about it but lo wasn't as she was expecting to go swimming with her Gran, so she played up, I was cross and stressed and the Inspector was a really unpleasant woman!!!

There's no way that's right I would have certainly been putting a complaint in .

[Simona]

That is my worry as well...

It appears that it is up to the inspector - some will come back and some won't.

However, if it's a compliance visit and that turns into a full inspection then you have no choice...

Very interesting Sarah....am I right in assuming that an inspector would have checked the provider's details? It is not compulsory to work 5 days a week as a CM and those details are usually in the SEF for those who submit it to Ofsted.

If we say that it is 'up to the inspector' then what is the point of Ofsted having published so much guidance if the decision rests with the individual inspector we could have hundreds of interpretations?

Surely this is a point that needs clarification...for instance pre schools are usually term time only...would an inspector turn up during the holiday when the setting is likely to be closed?
CMs may have a second job and it has been said here inspectors have a right of entry during 'working hours'...a day off work is not a working day in my view?

While we accept that they have to carry out inspection following a complaint I fail to understand why Ofsted would want to add anxiety to an already stressful situation?

Maybe this is a point to raise at #OBC?

[charlottenash]

I have a sign on my door, saying I don't open to unannounced visitors. I'm not joking either!

[charlottenash]

What do they do if you don't open the door? Or you're not here everyday?

It winds me up, some CMs in our area make sure they're never home because they are scared!! Imagine! A home from home child are service who is never home because they are scared of ofsted.

It's almost like working in an office , but thinking that every moment of the day your boss could walk in and demand to know what every bit of paperwork is etc.

[lilac_dragon]

Ofsted are our regulator and can inspect us when we are open for business.

If you say that you are open between the hours of 7 am and 6 pm then they can turn up to inspect you at any time during those hours.

If you refuse them entry they can ask the police to back them up - and the police have wide ranging powers of entry.

You can delay them by saying you want to ring the office and check they are who they say they are - that is your right - but you cannot refuse entry in working hours.

they have a right to check you are working within numbers - to speak to parents as they arrive - to check your home is safe and ready to receive children etc.

There are 2 sides to every story and I'm not sure we are hearing the whole thing on the FB page - but that is the member's prerogative.

Ho hum things are going from bad to worse and panic is spreading :(

Would my home be ready for children to arrive at 7am, which is my official start of business? - Only if I had a child booked in for that time! It's my advertised business start time but today my earliest arrival was 8am as the parent was on a course so didn't need to drop early. So, at 7am I was just rolling into the shower, and after that I ran the vacuum round, washed the kitchen floor and cleaned the toilet. These things would not have been done by 7am if Mrs O had knocked on the door. I don't do them at night as I go to bed earlier than the rest of the family so pointless cleaning something that is still in use.
If it was an unannounced visit at that time and I had los there, I would have been feeding them their breakfast and been concentrating on them not her, and my paperwork, other than immediate use stuff like lj's and register would have been in the locked filing cabinet upstairs. We had a thread recently about leaving los when they're eating, so I would have had to take their food away while I went up to get it. I have the tiniest Hall in UK in my opinion and the last time I had an early morning visit Mrs O had to greet each parent with me and then step outside into the driveway to talk to them as there was no room to stand and chat with los and their bags, coats, shoes etc. If the visit was unannounced I don't think my parents would have been able to chat as they would have been late for work, at least if they know an inspector is coming they can come a little early, AND fill in the questionnaires to give their opinion of our services, which of course is not the case if the visit is unannounced.
And YES I do think this all to stress us out!

[kellyskidz!]

God what an awful situation for the minder to be in! I'd be half asleep at 7am some days and wouldn't be able to function without a cuppa first, OFSTED or not!
So, if OFSTED did an unannounced visit at 7am and we thought it was a bit dodgy, and we said can I call the OFSTED no. to clarify this, and lines don't open til 9am, what happens? Does the inspector leave until 9, or do we have to let them in anyway? Even if there are no children in at that time? I agree we should all be prepared for spot checks at all times (except when we have the glitter out lol!) but I've never even thought OFSTED could or would call at someone's house so early to inspect, 8am maybe but 7am?! Could it go the other way and have 8pm spot checks? Also if you provide overnight care, are they going to show up at 1am - ok that last one was a little far lol!

[Ripeberry]

I shouldn't really go on FB. As with this thread about Ofsted turning up at all hours. That they can come whenever they like just for a normal inspection. Then another FB thread about a poor lady asking if she has to tell Ofsted that her husband has died and everyone says that she should, even if it's by e-mail. But we are not sure if he was working with her as a CM. But the crux of it is that as CMs we seem to have no privacy. Relative has died? Or better tell us so we can keep an eye on you just in case you 'crack up'. How dare you even try and be a human being.
I'm really starting to hate this job now. Not because of the kids or even the parents, but because of the fact that my basic human rights are being eroded by Ofsted. I should have the right to keep certain things from them and have the right to feel safe in my own home.
It's not worth it for the money I get! :(

[Ripeberry]

What do they do if you don't open the door? Or you're not here everyday?

It winds me up, some CMs in our area make sure they're never home because they are scared!! Imagine! A home from home child are service who is never home because they are scared of ofsted.

It's almost like working in an office , but thinking that every moment of the day your boss could walk in and demand to know what every bit of paperwork is etc.

I worked for 14 years in an office and it was NEVER as stressful as this. Imagine your boss coming to your house. That just makes it even worse as your home has to be PERFECT AT ALL TIMES! Ooh! I just saw a flying pig go past my window!

[bunyip]

Maybe all that inspector's reports should include a footnote to the effect that, "this document was compiled by some gimp who doesn't know what time it is." :p

[rickysmiths]

I don't think from what I have read and I haven't seen the FB group post, but I get the impression that we haven't been told the whole story. How many of us know anyone who has had Ofsted knock on the door at 7am (ok benefit of the doubt 8am)?

If this inspector was checking the cm for being over numbers on school children then that is prob a good time for them to visit isn't it? I don't see the problem really. I know a lot of cm and I have never known one have a visit at 8am, not even the two who have has visits due to Safeguarding Complaints being made so I suspect Ofsted had good reason to knock on this cms door at the time they did.

It seems everyone is panicking more than a bit. Nothing has suddenly changed Ofsted have always have right of entry to our homes if there is a concern about the Welfare of the children in our care or to carry out an Inspection and it has been that way for 13 years!. The only change is there are more unannounced Complaint driven Inspections

[Mouse]

I don't think from what I have read and I haven't seen the FB group post, but I get the impression that we haven't been told the whole story. How many of us know anyone who has had Ofsted knock on the door at 7am (ok benefit of the doubt 8am)?

If this inspector was checking the cm for being over numbers on school children then that is prob a good time for them to visit isn't it? I don't see the problem really. I know a lot of cm and I have never known one have a visit at 8am, not even the two who have has visits due to Safeguarding Complaints being made so I suspect Ofsted had good reason to knock on this cms door at the time they did.

It seems everyone is panicking more than a bit. Nothing has suddenly changed Ofsted have always have right of entry to our homes if there is a concern about the Welfare of the children in our care or to carry out an Inspection and it has been that way for 13 years!. The only change is there are more unannounced Complaint driven Inspections

I disagree with your last comment. The biggest change is the increasing number of unannounced routine inspections. That's what's causing concern. Also reports that inspectors are turning up to do unannounced inspections (not complaint driven) without having checked whether or not a cm is working. For all my other inspections I have had a call in advance asking if I am still childminding and which days I work. Inspectors are now turning up without having asked that. My concern is that if they turn up on a day when I'm not working and demand to carry out a routine inspection, I would have no hope of maintaining my Outstanding grade, even though everything else is in order. That hardly seems fair.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I disagree with your last comment. The biggest change is the increasing number of unannounced routine inspections. That's what's causing concern. Also reports that inspectors are turning up to do unannounced inspections (not complaint driven) without having checked whether or not a cm is working. For all my other inspections I have had a call in advance asking if I am still childminding and which days I work. Inspectors are now turning up without having asked that. My concern is that if they turn up on a day when I'm not working and demand to carry out a routine inspection, I would have no hope of maintaining my Outstanding grade, even though everything else is in order. That hardly seems fair.

If they rang before coming it would hardly be unannounced

I can see why everyone is getting agitated but I also feel that there is no smoke without fire. Where are all these inspectors coming from as they cannot keep up with reinspections. We all only see one side to every story and are very quick to judge ....

[Simona]

Inspectors can only arrive 'unannounced' for a complaint driven inspection
For cycle inspection they must follow the guidance by Ofsted itself (p 5) by calling the cm a few days later and confirm she is still working

Ofsted | Conducting early years inspections (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/conducting-early-years-inspections)

Little or no notice of inspection
7. Group providers normally receive no notice of the inspection. Childminders or group providers that do not operate regularly, such as summer play schemes, will usually receive a call no more than five days before the inspection to check which days they are operating and whether there are children on roll and present. The inspector must not specify the date of the inspection but may indicate the time by which the inspection will start. This will allow the childminder to leave the house if the inspector has not arrived by that time. If there are no children on roll or present, the inspection will be rescheduled unless there are good reasons why it must go ahead; for example, because it is close to the end of the inspection cycle.
8. Ofsted will normally carry out inspections without notice where inspections are prioritised or brought forward because of concerns. Having no children on roll or present on the day is unlikely to lead to these inspections being deferred.

If this does not happen the cm has a right to ring Ofsted and report it...unless we get confident enough to do so this will carry on unchallenged and we will continue to be worried it will happen to us...if cms do not want to report it to Ofsted then they can call their representing association to report it.

A guidance means we, both sides, understand the rules...it's a 2 way system that leads to respect and professional conduct from either party!

[Mouse]

If they rang before coming it would hardly be unannounced

I can see why everyone is getting agitated but I also feel that there is no smoke without fire. Where are all these inspectors coming from as they cannot keep up with reinspections. We all only see one side to every story and are very quick to judge ....

But routine inspections aren't supposed to be unannounced. I agree that if it's a complaint driven inspection they should call unannounced, but not if it's a routine inspection. I also don't agree with childminders being given too much notice. A phone call a day or 2 before should be sufficient to check the childminder is working, but not give them long enough to change anything much.

One local cm was given 2 months notice of her routine inspection. She had so long to prepare that she looked wonderful on the day (she'd even practiced the activities with the children so she knew it would work.) She hadn't done half the things before her inspection & hasn't done them since. Another cm had a complaint made against her and the inspector phoned to say she wanted to come the next day. The cm said she was busy, so the inspector said she'd call the following week. The cm spent the weekend updating all her paperwork (driving to parent's houses to get them to complete permission forms etc). Both of those are wrong, in my opinion and show how worthless some inspections actually are.

[Mouse]

Inspectors can only arrive 'unannounced' for a complaint driven inspection
For cycle inspection they must follow the guidance by Ofsted itself (p 5) by calling the cm a few days later and confirm she is still working

Ofsted | Conducting early years inspections (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/conducting-early-years-inspections)

Little or no notice of inspection
7. Group providers normally receive no notice of the inspection. Childminders or group providers that do not operate regularly, such as summer play schemes, will usually receive a call no more than five days before the inspection to check which days they are operating and whether there are children on roll and present. The inspector must not specify the date of the inspection but may indicate the time by which the inspection will start. This will allow the childminder to leave the house if the inspector has not arrived by that time. If there are no children on roll or present, the inspection will be rescheduled unless there are good reasons why it must go ahead; for example, because it is close to the end of the inspection cycle.
8. Ofsted will normally carry out inspections without notice where inspections are prioritised or brought forward because of concerns. Having no children on roll or present on the day is unlikely to lead to these inspections being deferred.

If this does not happen the cm has a right to ring Ofsted and report it...unless we get confident enough to do so this will carry on unchallenged and we will continue to be worried it will happen to us...if cms do not want to report it to Ofsted then they can call their representing association to report it.

A guidance means we, both sides, understand the rules...it's a 2 way system that leads to respect and professional conduct from either party!

I guess "usually" is the key word.

I think part of the problem is that childminders are reporting having unannounced routine inspections, but Ofsted are denying it's happening. Even our DO said it didn't happen although one of the cms at our meeting had had it happen to them. The DO said there must have been a reason. The cm was adamant there wasn't & the inspector didn't mention anything. So as well as having to endure unannounced inspections, cms are also being accused of lying about the reason behind it! I do agree that there are many cases of childminders crying that their inspection was unfair, when in fact there is much more to it, but it does seem as if "no smoke without fire" is being applied to them all :panic:

[FussyElmo]

I guess "usually" is the key word.

I think part of the problem is that childminders are reporting having unannounced routine inspections, but Ofsted are denying it's happening. Even our DO said it didn't happen although one of the cms at our meeting had had it happen to them. The DO said there must have been a reason. The cm was adamant there wasn't & the inspector didn't mention anything. So as well as having to endure unannounced inspections, cms are also being accused of lying about the reason behind it! I do agree that there are many cases of childminders crying that their inspection was unfair, when in fact there is much more to it, but it does seem as if "no smoke without fire" is being applied to them all :panic:

I agree with you with the word usually. Is doesn't say you WILL receive. I read lots of cms that say they are ignoring their phones incase of them ringing is that the reason they are just turning or is it the inspectors just working her way through her list.

Ofsted keep saying they are not happening but yet I keep reading of cms saying they have had an unannounced inspection.

How will we ever know the truth :panic::panic:

[TooEarlyForGin?]

I shouldn't really go on FB. As with this thread about Ofsted turning up at all hours. That they can come whenever they like just for a normal inspection. Then another FB thread about a poor lady asking if she has to tell Ofsted that her husband has died and everyone says that she should, even if it's by e-mail. But we are not sure if he was working with her as a CM. But the crux of it is that as CMs we seem to have no privacy. Relative has died? Or better tell us so we can keep an eye on you just in case you 'crack up'. How dare you even try and be a human being. I'm really starting to hate this job now. Not because of the kids or even the parents, but because of the fact that my basic human rights are being eroded by Ofsted. I should have the right to keep certain things from them and have the right to feel safe in my own home. It's not worth it for the money I get! :(

I feel this way too Ripeberry. Although it has been good that we are classed as "professionals" and work to a high standard, I have always felt childminders should have their own set of standards. Yes, there should be statutory requirements, but we offer an entirely unique form of care. Many of us start early, but, are still sorting out our own families. Although I have toys out, there are no "planned" activities until around 9am, as I have multiple children arriving at different times, some have breakfast some don't, I put children on 2 different buses and will have a quick tidy before I start my activities with the ones that remain. Parents are all aware of this and happy as their children are in the home environment that they want. The government bang on about flexible childcare, which is what we are good at, but it is different to how a nursery would work. The more we try to take on the more is expected of us by OFSTED and the worst situation gets. I think I needs to be a strong reminder that these are our homes and families.

Recently I had issues in getting a CRB check for my 16 year old daughter as she is adopted and we struggled with identification, as we took some time to gain identification, she was sent several letters telling her that she was not suitable to be on the premises, HER HOME, they made her feel as though she was a random stranger and this is really upset her. I complained to OFSTED and was just told these were standard letters and I told them that I was disgusted that they would treat my family in this way in their own home obviously it didn't get anywhere but it made me realise how they view us.

I agree we should always be ready for an inspection and should be ready at short notice, but it should also be noted we are sole workers, working without help, if we are sick there is no one to jump in our place no administrators, cleaners, cooks, drivers, support staff. So as long as the statutory stuff is in place, and they can tell overall planning is done regularly and children are attaining well, there should be leeway. I think childminders would be less worried about OFSTED calling at any time.

[hectors house]

I agree with you with the word usually. Is doesn't say you WILL receive. I read lots of cms that say they are ignoring their phones incase of them ringing is that the reason they are just turning or is it the inspectors just working her way through her list.

Ofsted keep saying they are not happening but yet I keep reading of cms saying they have had an unannounced inspection.

How will we ever know the truth :panic::panic:

Oh dear that is me, not answering phone in case it's Ofsted (6 months overdue for inspection), I guess I had better make sure that I'm out of the house every morning too, but if they are turning up at 7 am, I will still be at the local swimming pool! (without mindees)

[vals]

I had an unnanounced complaint visit - it wasn't a full inspection though, and I was working and my own children were home which I was glad about as they spoke up about one issue and also helped play with the children. Initially he asked if it was ok to talk infront of the minded children - at that point he didn't know anyone else was in. Not sure what he expected - can't leave the children unattended. very odd. It was all ok depsite him not being at all nice which mad eme argumentative- I was definitely guilty unless I could prove otherwise.

But had he come when I wasn't working, would I really have to let him in?

My home changes when I am not working, its amazing how quickly it goes back to home not workplace. Especially with older children, we may have been not fully dressed, teenager may have even been naked, and the living room would have teenage related items everywhere, and paperwork wouldn't be out etc. Surely they aren't saying they are entitled to come in when we are closed.

[FussyElmo]

I had an unnanounced complaint visit - it wasn't a full inspection though, and I was working and my own children were home which I was glad about as they spoke up about one issue and also helped play with the children. Initially he asked if it was ok to talk infront of the minded children - at that point he didn't know anyone else was in. Not sure what he expected - can't leave the children unattended. very odd. It was all ok depsite him not being at all nice which mad eme argumentative- I was definitely guilty unless I could prove otherwise.

But had he come when I wasn't working, would I really have to let him in?

My home changes when I am not working, its amazing how quickly it goes back to home not workplace. Especially with older children, we may have been not fully dressed, teenager may have even been naked, and the living room would have teenage related items everywhere, and paperwork wouldn't be out etc. Surely they aren't saying they are entitled to come in when we are closed.

If its to investigate a compliant then yes I do believe we have to let them in

[Simona]

I guess "usually" is the key word.

I think part of the problem is that childminders are reporting having unannounced routine inspections, but Ofsted are denying it's happening. Even our DO said it didn't happen although one of the cms at our meeting had had it happen to them. The DO said there must have been a reason. The cm was adamant there wasn't & the inspector didn't mention anything. So as well as having to endure unannounced inspections, cms are also being accused of lying about the reason behind it! I do agree that there are many cases of childminders crying that their inspection was unfair, when in fact there is much more to it, but it does seem as if "no smoke without fire" is being applied to them all :panic:

I take your point Mouse...it's a word game!!!...one paragraph says 'usually' the next says 'normally' neither say 'will'..
I trust all cms in this forum have now got the message that we may get that knock on the door anytime...usually announced or 'normally' not !

All inspectors conduct their business on mobiles ...if we report the call was not made for a schedule inspection and gave the inspector's name, which we are entitled to get from him/her... Ofsted can trace the call?

Someone can email Ofsted if that has happened to them ...we need to put a stop to this and act or we will be going round in circles.

Incidentally I did email Ofsted Principle Officer a while back on this very matter and shared her comments in this forum...she said inspector do not carry out unannounced cycle inspections...if that happens to me I will show the inspector that email

I suggest we all email Ofsted and see what response we get...can't see any other way can anyone?

[AdeleMarie88]

I take your point Mouse...it's a word game!!!...one paragraph says 'usually' the next says 'normally' neither say 'will'.. I trust all cms in this forum have now got the message that we may get that knock on the door anytime...usually announced or 'normally' not ! All inspectors conduct their business on mobiles ...if we report the call was not made for a schedule inspection and gave the inspector's name, which we are entitled to get from him/her... Ofsted can trace the call? Someone can email Ofsted if that has happened to them ...we need to put a stop to this and act or we will be going round in circles. Incidentally I did email Ofsted Principle Officer a while back on this very matter and shared her comments in this forum...she said inspector do not carry out unannounced cycle inspections...if that happens to me I will show the inspector that email I suggest we all email Ofsted and see what response we get...can't see any other way can anyone?

I have emailed Ofsted a list of questions about out of hours and unannounced visits, so I will wait and see what response, if any, I get!

[kellyskidz!]

Recently I had issues in getting a CRB check for my 16 year old daughter as she is adopted and we struggled with identification, as we took some time to gain identification, she was sent several letters telling her that she was not suitable to be on the premises, HER HOME, they made her feel as though she was a random stranger and this is really upset her. I complained to OFSTED and was just told these were standard letters and I told them that I was disgusted that they would treat my family in this way in their own home obviously it didn't get anywhere but it made me realise how they view us.

I had to read that bit twice, and I still find it appalling. I've long since felt the same, as when I first registered my daughter was 4 so I put her name and dob and the forms as a person who was living in my home and they sent me a letter (which was quite formal and harshly worded) saying she'd need a crb check and that I'd failed to provide one! For a 4 year old?!
It was an error and was sorted quickly but it still made me think of OFSTED, and the way they go about obtaining information on Childminders, in a negative light. We are different to other settings, as in the people they need info on are not our employees but our family members. They are inspecting us in our homes, which are personal to us (even though, yes, we do open them to children and in turn to them) but its feeling lately like we have no right to a private life, or to expect any kind of humane treatment from OFSTED. I've heard awful stories about him minders have been treat in their own homes and I think Childminders should be under a different criteria than nurseries, schools etc. and we should be given some leeway owing to the fact that we work differently and in a different environment

[lilac_dragon]

I don't think from what I have read and I haven't seen the FB group post, but I get the impression that we haven't been told the whole story. How many of us know anyone who has had Ofsted knock on the door at 7am (ok benefit of the doubt 8am)?

If this inspector was checking the cm for being over numbers on school children then that is prob a good time for them to visit isn't it? I don't see the problem really. I know a lot of cm and I have never known one have a visit at 8am, not even the two who have has visits due to Safeguarding Complaints being made so I suspect Ofsted had good reason to knock on this cms door at the time they did.

It seems everyone is panicking more than a bit. Nothing has suddenly changed Ofsted have always have right of entry to our homes if there is a concern about the Welfare of the children in our care or to carry out an Inspection and it has been that way for 13 years!. The only change is there are more unannounced Complaint driven Inspections

I've had an Inspector come at 7.30 am as she wanted to speak to my parents when they dropped the children off.
So Yes it HAS happened, she stayed with me until lunchtime, went and had her lunch somewhere and then came back and walked down to the school with me for 3.30 pickup, came back and talked to all the schoolies, left about 4.30ish.
This was an ordinary 3 year ish timescale Inspection. No complaints against me, it was just my time.
I don't know if anyone else has had it, or if it was just this Inspectors way of working.

[lizduncan72]

I've had an Inspector come at 7.30 am as she wanted to speak to my parents when they dropped the children off.
So Yes it HAS happened, she stayed with me until lunchtime, went and had her lunch somewhere and then came back and walked down to the school with me for 3.30 pickup, came back and talked to all the schoolies, left about 4.30ish.
This was an ordinary 3 year ish timescale Inspection. No complaints against me, it was just my time.
I don't know if anyone else has had it, or if it was just this Inspectors way of working.

9 hours????????! OMG :(

[AdeleMarie88]

I've had an Inspector come at 7.30 am as she wanted to speak to my parents when they dropped the children off. So Yes it HAS happened, she stayed with me until lunchtime, went and had her lunch somewhere and then came back and walked down to the school with me for 3.30 pickup, came back and talked to all the schoolies, left about 4.30ish. This was an ordinary 3 year ish timescale Inspection. No complaints against me, it was just my time. I don't know if anyone else has had it, or if it was just this Inspectors way of working.

I think that is incredible, my most recent inspection lasted 1 hr 30mins from 10am-11.30!

I don't think your inspector is the norm so to speak! I wouldn't want an inspector with me for hours but it does seem unfair, potentially you had 4/5hours more than me to shine...these inconsistencies are really out of order!

[rickysmiths]

I've had an Inspector come at 7.30 am as she wanted to speak to my parents when they dropped the children off.
So Yes it HAS happened, she stayed with me until lunchtime, went and had her lunch somewhere and then came back and walked down to the school with me for 3.30 pickup, came back and talked to all the schoolies, left about 4.30ish.
This was an ordinary 3 year ish timescale Inspection. No complaints against me, it was just my time.
I don't know if anyone else has had it, or if it was just this Inspectors way of working.

I wish more Inspectors would speak to parents to be honest.

However I would have said that 7.30am to 4.30pm was too much and I would have rung the provider and complained at lunch time if the inspector had indicated they were coming back for the afternoon as well. Inspections are supposed to be 2.5 to 3 hours at the longest now. If she saw the morning children that should have been enough, no need to walk to school in the afternoon as well.

I did say in my post it may have been because she wanted to see the before school children I didn't say it didn't happen just that it is unusual.

[Simona]

I have emailed Ofsted a list of questions about out of hours and unannounced visits, so I will wait and see what response, if any, I get!

Let us know what reply you get and then we can compare notes!

[sarah707]

Another of our Facebook members had an unannounced 'just passing' inspection this morning at 9.15am. She doesn't live anywhere near the first lady...

We have to stop worrying - it's happening and we've got to deal with it!!

if we are ready then we will be able to manage it better.... so time to get prepared!

here are some tips xx

Unannounced Ofsted inspections - (http://independentchildminders.weebly.com/1/post/2013/11/unannounced-ofsted-inspections.html)

[Mouse]

Another of our Facebook members had an unannounced 'just passing' inspection this morning at 9.15am. She doesn't live anywhere near the first lady...

We have to stop worrying - it's happening and we've got to deal with it!!

if we are ready then we will be able to manage it better.... so time to get prepared!

here are some tips xx

Unannounced Ofsted inspections - (http://independentchildminders.weebly.com/1/post/2013/11/unannounced-ofsted-inspections.html)

I'm not toooooo worried about an unannounced inspection, other than the panic I'd feel if an inspector suddenly appeared on the doorstep!

And in some ways I actually see the possibility of an unannounced inspection as a positive thing. It's making me keep on top of my paperwork and has made me change how I do a few things. And surprisingly, keeping on top of everything is making my life easier...who'd have thought :laughing:

[tigwig]

Well they didn't come on my day off today yippee! However if they had when I was on my way out with a train to catch and my own children at school... no way would I have given up my plans. Why an earth should we? Wd are entitled to a day off just like anyone else and I would have been furious to justify this to an inspector and certainly wouldn't have kept quiet about it!

[loocyloo]

I have a question about unannounced inspections ... Are they currently happening to childminders in towns or cities, or at least in areas with several childminders in a small ish radius?
Only asking as I live in a rural area. ... my closest childminder was inspected earlier in the year and my next closest minder is 6 or 7 miles away. An Inspector could spend all day driving round trying to find someone at home in my area! ( unless of course they arrived at 7am! But currently I would still be in bed! As would the rest of my family! )

[karen m]

I heard about this and the story was as her hours of opening are 6.30 to 6.30 they presumed she was available

[AdeleMarie88]

I heard about this and the story was as her hours of opening are 6.30 to 6.30 they presumed she was available

I think that is fair enough then, I thought there must be more than we realised!! I dont think ofsted did anything wrong in this case x

[Mouse]

I think that is fair enough then, I thought there must be more than we realised!! I dont think ofsted did anything wrong in this case x

Then why did the inspector tell the cm that she was early because her watch was wrong? How much easier would it have been if she'd just said "you're opening hours are stated as being from 6.30am-6.30pm, so that's why I'm here at 7am"?

[AdeleMarie88]

Then why did the inspector tell the cm that she was early because her watch was wrong? How much easier would it have been if she'd just said "you're opening hours are stated as being from 6.30am-6.30pm, so that's why I'm here at 7am"?

Haha that's true!!

Who knows!!!? The early hour must have confused both parties x

[Simona]

Then why did the inspector tell the cm that she was early because her watch was wrong? How much easier would it have been if she'd just said "you're opening hours are stated as being from 6.30am-6.30pm, so that's why I'm here at 7am"?

Mouse...your question is pertinent...I asked a few in this thread and none were answered

I am worried that we have been discussing something that happened on the forum FB page and not here where the cm herself could have taken part and given details thus avoiding a lot of speculation?

We all have a choice of where we wish to get support from, some choose the forum, some FB and some both but it is hard to have a debate when the original discussion started in a very different social media that many cms here say they do not use??

We often hear in the forum of what has been reported on FB...how many cms are panicking or doing this or that...does what we post here get reported and discussed on FB?
I hope not!!

I know this is going to be unpopular but I feel our choice not to be on FB needs to be respected...if we want to participate all we have to do is join that social media too.

[angeldelight]

Whilst I sympathize with this thinking Ofsted are legally able to enter your property (given you answer the door)! It wouldn't go in your favour to refuse enty to an inspector. They are reasonable though normally and won't hold you up if you are on a school run or have an appointment.

I agree plus if you say your working hours are 7 till 6 for example ,then of course they could turn up early

I've never read anywhere that there is a time limit on when Ofsted come out

Always be on your toes whatever the time I say

Angel xxx

[angeldelight]

Mouse...your question is pertinent...I asked a few in this thread and none were answered

I am worried that we have been discussing something that happened on the forum FB page and not here where the cm herself could have taken part and given details thus avoiding a lot of speculation?

We all have a choice of where we wish to get support from, some choose the forum, some FB and some both but it is hard to have a debate when the original discussion started in a very different social media that many cms here say they do not use??

We often hear in the forum of what has been reported on FB...how many cms are panicking or doing this or that...does what we post here get reported and discussed on FB?
I hope not!!

I know this is going to be unpopular but I feel our choice not to be on FB needs to be respected...if we want to participate all we have to do is join that social media too.

Does it matter where the discussion started ?

It could affect any one of us so it's a great topic ...here or fb

Angel xx

[Mouse]

Mouse...your question is pertinent...I asked a few in this thread and none were answered

I am worried that we have been discussing something that happened on the forum FB page and not here where the cm herself could have taken part and given details thus avoiding a lot of speculation?

We all have a choice of where we wish to get support from, some choose the forum, some FB and some both but it is hard to have a debate when the original discussion started in a very different social media that many cms here say they do not use??

We often hear in the forum of what has been reported on FB...how many cms are panicking or doing this or that...does what we post here get reported and discussed on FB?
I hope not!!

I know this is going to be unpopular but I feel our choice not to be on FB needs to be respected...if we want to participate all we have to do is join that social media too.




I totally respect anyone's choice to stay off FB, just as I expect people to respect my choice to stay off Twitter.

You are saying we shouldn't bring FB discussions here, out of respect to non-FB users? Personally, I am very grateful that as a Twitter user you don't offer us non-users the same courtesy you would like extended to you. I am very glad that you & others do post info from Twitter. I do not have the time to use every form of social media & I am grateful to anyone who takes the time to share information from those that I don't use. I have no intention of signing up to Twitter (where I am sure the information is no more reliable than it is on FB), but I appreciate people taking the time to post what they have read there.

Would you prefer to miss out on any FB conversation no matter how relevant, interesting or useful it might be? If that is the case I would guess the only option is to avoid any threads that mention FB. It really isn't the evil place some people seem to believe it is. Yes, there is a lot of rubbish posted on there (a trait in all forms of social media), but there is also a lot of very good information and support.

I think it would be very limiting to only post something on FB, the Forum or Twitter, with no cross over. In my opinion it's a much better option to involve as many people as possible and to have cross-over in all 3. Would you have really preferred not to know that an Ofsted inspector have turned up at 7am? Would you prefer to be in the dark about things like that?

[bunyip]

I don't use 4rsebook, but have absolutely no problem if people bring a subject onto this forum that originated on FB. Maybe I say it as shouldn't, but I think it's a positive thing to have the chance to debate in this way.

The important thing is that all the relevant information accompanies the subject, as it shouldn't be assumed that we'll all 'in the know' or that we're all following a debate across multiple sites.

[Simona]

That is not what I said...it is difficult to carry a debate when the CM who posted the comment was not here to answer our questions...that is what I meant and I think it was very clear!
I certainly respect those who want to stay off twitter or anything like it or those who wish to be part of all the social media.

If I made a comment in the forum and it was posted on FB by someone else I would have no chance of answering

Yes there is choice of social media and I respect the choice cms make....is all to do with Freedom of choice or speech.

Are we sometimes missing the point on purpose and attacking without reflecting on what the message was really about?

[Tulip]

Another of our Facebook members had an unannounced 'just passing' inspection this morning at 9.15am. She doesn't live anywhere near the first lady...

We have to stop worrying - it's happening and we've got to deal with it!!

if we are ready then we will be able to manage it better.... so time to get prepared!

here are some tips xx

Unannounced Ofsted inspections - (http://independentchildminders.weebly.com/1/post/2013/11/unannounced-ofsted-inspections.html)

Great checklist there Sarah, very useful, thank - you very much :)

[FussyElmo]

That is not what I said...it is difficult to carry a debate when the CM who posted the comment was not here to answer our questions...that is what I meant and I think it was very clear!
I certainly respect those who want to stay off twitter or anything like it or those who wish to be part of all the social media.

If I made a comment in the forum and it was posted on FB by someone else I would have no chance of answering

Yes there is choice of social media and I respect the choice cms make....is all to do with Freedom of choice or speech.

Are we sometimes missing the point on purpose and attacking without reflecting on what the message was really about?

No it wasn't clear it did read that you were commenting on the social media people use.

Its very rare a post gets copied on here from the fb page and vice versa. In this case I know that the op told the person in question was putting it here on the forum.

The only time you get the same posts is if the poster puts them on both sites.

I don't believe that your posts or mine for that matter are ever being linked to, copied onto fb. Now Sarah707s are used as advice on a regular basis but she is very happy for this to happen :D

[bunyip]

Well I'm certainly not attacking anybody (I wish I had the time) and I don't see anyone else doing so here either. Or is that just me being too naive and positive. :huh:

I merely observe that the presence of a debate in one place should in no way preclude us debating it here - and that it helps if we get all the facts in one place, rather than being expected to cross-check between sites.

It is a fact of life in the 'age of information' that when you put anything on the tinterwebnet you instantly surrender control of how it is used. So anything we type here can be copied onto FB, Netmums or some forum for lovers of budgerigars for all we know. Unfortunate that we don't get to follow where it gets posted and retain a right of reply. I don't necessarily like it, but then I don't like the fact that toast always lands jammy-side-down on the carpet.:(

That's just the way it is................... unless someone wants to have a stab at redesigning the entire world wide web? :huh:

[TooEarlyForGin?]

I only posted as I thought OFSTED had been denying they were doing on the spot inspections, but it's clear to see across the board that they are consistently turning up at people's houses complaint or no complaints. I fully agree we should all be ready for our inspection at any time, but I also feel this is getting silly as it is still our family home and they seem to be losing sight of this fact. As I mentioned in a previous post, similar to what many others have said they have their own families walking around the house in the morning, unless there is a serious safeguarding issue where are our rights and privacy. I do not believe that just because I look after children I should have to expect OFSTED appearances at any time of day and night. I have a small house which my whole family uses morning and evening so it would be very difficult to have another adult sat in the midst of it while I'm trying to run around getting children to school on time. And as I said before I wouldn't mind if I felt OFSTED would be understanding of our type of childcare, and judge us accordingly, but I fear they don't.

[AdeleMarie88]

I only posted as I thought OFSTED had been denying they were doing on the spot inspections, but it's clear to see across the board that they are consistently turning up at people's houses complaint or no complaints. I fully agree we should all be ready for our inspection at any time, but I also feel this is getting silly as it is still our family home and they seem to be losing sight of this fact. As I mentioned in a previous post, similar to what many others have said they have their own families walking around the house in the morning, unless there is a serious safeguarding issue where are our rights and privacy. I do not believe that just because I look after children I should have to expect OFSTED appearances at any time of day and night. I have a small house which my whole family uses morning and evening so it would be very difficult to have another adult sat in the midst of it while I'm trying to run around getting children to school on time. And as I said before I wouldn't mind if I felt OFSTED would be understanding of our type of childcare, and judge us accordingly, but I fear they don't.

I just started a thread under ofsted inspections, I emailed them regarding the issue of on the spot inspections, and turning up out of hours. She said in no uncertain terms that they will not turn up out of hours, and if it is a routine inspections, the inspector will call 5 days prior to discuss opening times, and number of children you have that day. She also said if it's an unannounced visit, they won't call, but they will check your most recent SEF/report to see what your opening hours are.

She also said if you have evidence/experience of something different happening you should report it. If put the email conversation in full on the other thread if you want to read it x

[Simona]

I just started a thread under ofsted inspections, I emailed them regarding the issue of on the spot inspections, and turning up out of hours. She said in no uncertain terms that they will not turn up out of hours, and if it is a routine inspections, the inspector will call 5 days prior to discuss opening times, and number of children you have that day. She also said if it's an unannounced visit, they won't call, but they will check your most recent SEF/report to see what your opening hours are.

She also said if you have evidence/experience of something different happening you should report it. If put the email conversation in full on the other thread if you want to read it x

Thank you for taking the trouble to write to Ofsted and share their response to you.

It is reassuring that they have told you exactly what I was told in the email 2 weeks ago which I shared here too.

[FussyElmo]

Thank you for taking the trouble to write to Ofsted and share their response to you.

It is reassuring that they have told you exactly what I was told in the email 2 weeks ago which I shared here too.

I think its slightly different to what you were told. If I remember rightly (and I have read a lot of posts) they told you they didn't do unannounced inspections. They have in this email said that inspections can be unannounced. Also it goes on to say that if the inspector turns up and there are no children on roll it would be unlikely they would come back and they would have to consult their line manager

http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/ofsted-information-ofsted-inspections/126498-ofsted-inspections-update.html#post1322105.

Apologies if I have remembered wrongly what you had said :D

[Simona]

I think its slightly different to what you were told. If I remember rightly (and I have read a lot of posts) they told you they didn't do unannounced inspections. They have in this email said that inspections can be unannounced. Also it goes on to say that if the inspector turns up and there are no children on roll it would be unlikely they would come back and they would have to consult their line manager

http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/ofsted-information-ofsted-inspections/126498-ofsted-inspections-update.html#post1322105.

Apologies if I have remembered wrongly what you had said :D

No it is the same reply as given to AdeleMarie88

[jadavi]

Adele's reply from Ofsted didn't deny spot checks did it? Just reassured they would not turn up out of hours

[AdeleMarie88]

I just started a thread under ofsted inspections, I emailed them regarding the issue of on the spot inspections, and turning up out of hours. She said in no uncertain terms that they will not turn up out of hours, and if it is a routine inspections, the inspector will call 5 days prior to discuss opening times, and number of children you have that day. She also said if it's an unannounced visit, they won't call, but they will check your most recent SEF/report to see what your opening hours are. She also said if you have evidence/experience of something different happening you should report it. If put the email conversation in full on the other thread if you want to read it x

Hey yes she did deny spot checks, she said that never ever happens, you are either routine inspected or inspected because of a complaint made against you...x

[AdeleMarie88]

Adele's reply from Ofsted didn't deny spot checks did it? Just reassured they would not turn up out of hours

Sorry quoted wrong bit in previous post;

"They also said that they NEVER do on the spot inspections, without a previous complaint made about that specific provider. So the discussion happening on the other thread about inspectors conducting inspections on all CM in a three mile radius because of a complaint about ratios, this would absolutely not happen. Also before conducting inspections, they will either call, or check your most recent SEF to see what times you have said you operate. They will never show in outside of your stated working hours. So if they turn up at 7am, and you said you start at 6.30, no complaining! "

[Mouse]

Sorry quoted wrong bit in previous post;

"They also said that they NEVER do on the spot inspections, without a previous complaint made about that specific provider. So the discussion happening on the other thread about inspectors conducting inspections on all CM in a three mile radius because of a complaint about ratios, this would absolutely not happen. Also before conducting inspections, they will either call, or check your most recent SEF to see what times you have said you operate. They will never show in outside of your stated working hours. So if they turn up at 7am, and you said you start at 6.30, no complaining! "

So what's the difference between an on the spot inspection and an unannounced routine inspection?

[AdeleMarie88]

So what's the difference between an on the spot inspection and an unannounced routine inspection?

The point the lady I spoke to was making, was that inspectors call prior to routine inspections, so they should, ideally, never be unannounced. If you experience otherwise it should be reported x

[VeggieSausage]

There was a woman at our childminding group a couple of weeks ago who had an unannounced visit, as far as she knew there had been no complaint or anything else to trigger an inspection, they just turned up......she was overdue an inspection, so not sure if they are culling backlogs by turning up when they have a space or inspector free, or maybe targets have been introduced for inspectors.....

[Mouse]

There was a woman at our childminding group a couple of weeks ago who had an unannounced visit, as far as she knew there had been no complaint or anything else to trigger an inspection, they just turned up......she was overdue an inspection, so not sure if they are culling backlogs by turning up when they have a space or inspector free, or maybe targets have been introduced for inspectors.....

As far as I know inspectors are freelance and already work to targets, so maybe their targets have been increased to clear the backlog?

Whatever the reason, unannounced routine inspections are most definitely on the increase and Ofsted is either unaware of this, or is blatantly denying it :rolleyes: