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View Full Version : I am debating on introducing a healice exclusion policy



Tazmin68
06-11-2013, 10:47 AM
I have a continuing problem with a child who has headlice. I have permission to bath and nitty gritty comb child which was ok when I was quieter but I have other small children with me. I use spray conditioner and comb now but child still has lice and in last 6 months other mindees have probably caught them off this child on at least two occasions one parent is getting annoyed about it even asking if I will pay for treatment. I can see me losing this child who is full time if things don't change. The child with lice is a funded 2 year child who attends 15 hours a week and is moving to 3 year funding in January and is leaving me at Easter to start pre school. The issue I have is that I have been told by the local authority early years funding team that I cannot exclude child as I have to go by the HPA guidelines and cannot exclude for lice despite it effecting other children in my care. I would really appreciate any advice. It has got to the point that the two days I have this child we go to groups and a couple of other childminders are no longer attending because of this child that I have. This makes me feel very guilty as I have the child because of having the relevant criteria of being funded 2 year old and I am trying to be inclusive.

Plus on a lighter note has anyone noticed that the times of our posts are an.hour out!

Deb

Mummits
06-11-2013, 12:08 PM
I have also had problems in the past with a child repeatedly coming to me with headlice, also a 2 year old funded child. I had a headlice policy which said that whilst I would not send a child home because they had headlice, I would inform parents and expect them to be effectively treated before returning (with advice leaflets and verbal advice being available if applicable). On one occasion I had informed the mum that she needed to use the nit comb (which incidentally I had provided as a free sample). The next day the child clearly had not been treated and had very obviously dirty and nit-ridden hair. It was the day I was supposed to be taking the child for an introductory session at pre-school, and I spoke with the pre-school manager who confirmed they would not want the child to come and possibly infect a lot of other children, and also pointed out that it would be very negative to quite possibly be marked out by others as the "dirty" child. I explained all this to the mum, but she was decidedly miffed and stormed off to have a rant about me to the LA. I later explained to the LA lady that I had followed my policy which had already been explained to the parent, and that I had only agreed to take the child in accordance with my normal policies, not to make them a special case to the detriment of other children. She agreed that I could have whatever policies I judged best as long as they were not discriminatory. After a couple of days (presumably cooling off) the child was brought back and there were no further problems.

As far as I am concerned, the LA chooses whether or not to propose any placements, but they cannot dictate my policies. HPA guidelines are just that -guidelines. I think many childminders will apply commonsense criteria reflecting the wider principle that one child's attendance should not be detrimental to another's welfare. If I apply different policies for funded children, whether it is about headlice, health, behaviour or whatever, I may well lose other families and ultimately have to seek other employment, so everyone loses.

yummyripples
06-11-2013, 12:42 PM
I don't think it would be fair to exclude for headlice. Yes they are annoying but they are not life threatening. You would have to see an actual louse before you could exclude and would you have time to start looking?
The solution is often available free under the care of the chemist scheme so you could point parents in that direction but I find the best treatment is wet combing.
It also may not be the child's fault. It could be someone at school who is continously passing it to your mindee.
If you are unhappy with looking after this child then give notice but please don't exclude this child just because of nits. My daughter had them virtually all the time in infants and juniors despite me regularly treating her. It was the others in the class who weren't dealing with it so it would have been very unfair to exclude my daughter.

clairer
06-11-2013, 01:21 PM
I don't know if you can exclude for head lice. Sometimes you wouldn't know if a child had them so that could be tricky.

Fortunately my kids have never had head lice. My theory is their hair is too dirty! Wash it only once a week! :thumbsup:

Koala
06-11-2013, 01:24 PM
Well ladies/gents I think your amazing to continue to provide care in such circumstances, I do not think I could bare someone coming into my home with nits.
We have all had them here once and never again (fingers crossed) my son brought them home and shared them with us all - I was mortified. I dealt with it immediately and the problem hasn't returned.

I would have to INSIST that the matter is dealt with by all parents too and I would consider the child not returning until it was dealt with. I do not discriminate I would do it with EVERYONE. I beleive I have the right to expect certain standards not just in behaviour but also in hygiene and respect and consideration for my home/setting and other people using it and if parents cannot do this or feel they don't have to then I would ask them to leave - it really isn't much to ask.

Good luck - i'm itching already :panic:

rickysmiths
06-11-2013, 01:34 PM
Schools can't exclude for Head Lice and I think we would have difficulty in doing so. I think this might be an occasion to contact the child's Heath Visitor and or Children's Centre and ask for support to be given to the parent for this. Does the parent actually know how to use a nit comb? I have had to show many parents over the years how to use one and to remind the constantly to use it frequently and weekly once a child stats school even if they don't have nits as it can prevent.

If it is persistent Tea Tree shampoo can be helpful, Body Shop used to do a good one and I would recommend the parent continues to use it when the nits have gone as well as using the conditioner and nit comb weekly. Also does the parent realise that they should treat themselves as well and any other members of the family or those who the child comes close to?

No other parent can insist you exclude a child for this however annoying it can be. Does this parent realise that it is recommended that parents and all children in the family should be treated if one has it? I wonder how this parent would feel if it was their child that you were excluding? or indeed that school was asking to stay at home.

I found by combing my own children's hair once a week through school we never had a problem even when we got that dreaded note telling us someone in their class had it.

I also hope that none of the parents know which child this concerns as that would be a breach of confidentiality.

Mummits
06-11-2013, 01:38 PM
I don't think it would be fair to exclude for headlice. Yes they are annoying but they are not life threatening. You would have to see an actual louse before you could exclude and would you have time to start looking?
The solution is often available free under the care of the chemist scheme so you could point parents in that direction but I find the best treatment is wet combing.
It also may not be the child's fault. It could be someone at school who is continously passing it to your mindee.
If you are unhappy with looking after this child then give notice but please don't exclude this child just because of nits. My daughter had them virtually all the time in infants and juniors despite me regularly treating her. It was the others in the class who weren't dealing with it so it would have been very unfair to exclude my daughter.

We were talking about two year olds, so they won't be picking them up at school. They might possibly be picked up at groups playgrounds etc so I wouldn't want to argue the point as to whether they came with them or got them during the day. I also was not suggesting excluding for head lice as such, but I do think it is inconsiderate, disrespectful and unacceptable for a parent to be told they need to treat headlice and do nothing about it. Okay they are not life threatening, but they are a major inconvenience and I don't see why my family should have to put up with that, and like it or not, it is a threat to my livelihood.

When my children came home with a note saying headlice were doing the rounds, I examined and wet combed them without delay. If everyone does that, they don't last long. They have each had them once to my knowledge, but I would never send them in with lice to pass on to other children (however much they moaned about the combing!).

Is anyone else itching?

rickysmiths
06-11-2013, 01:39 PM
Well ladies/gents I think your amazing to continue to provide care in such circumstances, I do not think I could bare someone coming into my home with nits.
We have all had them here once and never again (fingers crossed) my son brought them home and shared them with us all - I was mortified. I dealt with it immediately and the problem hasn't returned.

I would have to INSIST that the matter is dealt with by all parents too and I would consider the child not returning until it was dealt with. I do not discriminate I would do it with EVERYONE. I beleive I have the right to expect certain standards not just in behaviour but also in hygiene and respect and consideration for my home/setting and other people using it and if parents cannot do this or feel they don't have to then I would ask them to leave - it really isn't much to ask.

Good luck - i'm itching already :panic:

This has nothing to do with getting nits or not, in fact they prefer a clean head. The state of the child's cleanliness id a different matter altogether.

Maybe all the parents don't know how to deal with them? I have had to give lessons to many parents over the years from all levels of education and background.

Koala
06-11-2013, 01:47 PM
This has nothing to do with getting nits or not, in fact they prefer a clean head. The state of the child's cleanliness id a different matter altogether.

Maybe all the parents don't know how to deal with them? I have had to give lessons to many parents over the years from all levels of education and background.

Sorry I think you miss understood the context, I did not say head lice were from lack of good hygiene, I said or meant to say that I beleive I have a right to expect certain standards and respect from all who enter my home/setting and if they are flagrantly disregarded then I have every right to ask them not to return. :thumbsup:

Mummits
06-11-2013, 01:48 PM
No other parent can insist you exclude a child for this however annoying it can be. Does this parent realise that it is recommended that parents and all children in the family should be treated if one has it? I wonder how this parent would feel if it was their child that you were excluding? or indeed that school was asking to stay at home.



Rickysmiths, I do agree with everything you say about treatment (much of which is covered by the leaflets I mentioned), but I think it is missing the point to say that other parents cannot insist on an effective policy to minimise the exposure of their own children. They absolutely do have the power to insist that their children are safeguarded in that they are at liberty to give notice and seek alternative childcare - just as they might "vote with their feet" if they felt your were failing to deal effectively with another non-life threatening hazard such as another child biting.

Koala
06-11-2013, 01:52 PM
And further more - just because schools do not exclude it does not make it right. If issues are not dealt with including head lice - the problem only spreads and gets worse just like D & V.

Just because schools do not want to have high absences on their books doesn't make it in the child's best interest not to address these issues and get them sorted.

Koala
06-11-2013, 01:57 PM
I wonder how this parent would feel if it was their child that you were excluding? or indeed that school was asking to stay at home.
.

It might give them an incentive to address the problem and do something about it for the childs sake!!! :thumbsup:

Tazmin68
06-11-2013, 02:07 PM
It it quite easy for parents to work out where the lice are coming from as I have only one full timer under 5 and it is that parent who is not happy and as hair is sometimes moving and I do mean moving it can be obvious. One other child under 5 attends one day a week and I have 2 funded children who attend on two different days as I pick up and take children home plus they only attend after the children have gone to school and go home before I do the school run. One of these has a very low immune system with a life limiting condition and he can never attend a group setting as risk to illness and infection has to be minimised.

On a number of occasions when I have bathed and combed this child's hair the number involved is well over 100 live lice so I don't think you can realise how serious this it. To also say there is no health issei an older sibling of this child was on antibiotics due to scalp infection due to lice. I have given mum a nitty gritty comb and conditioner in the past. I told mom on Monday afternoon about the lice and by text in the morning. I have a good relationship with the pastoral care worker at school and called her she had already rang mom as one sibling was falling asleep at her desk and another sibling was scratching her scalp quite a lot. I have contacted social worker who is going to do an unannounced visit to family sometime this week. This is a single mum with 5 children and a 6th one due next month so there are a lot of issues. It is just getting more difficult to bath and treat this child as my other little one rarely has a nap now which is when I used to bath and treat the child with lice. I have only had to treat my own children twice in 10 years and yet I have had to bath and treat this child on and off once a week since March.

I am quite happy to carry on agreed and comb and go through child's hair on every attendance and get rid of live lice but I do still have a duty of care to the other mindees in my care so I am going to introduce the rule that should I come accross lice in the first instance I will advice all parents that there is a case of lice and advice on treatment but if there is no action taken by parent I will then exclude until child is clear. If I have upset someone because I wish to take this action I apologise. In all the years of minding I have never been in this position and it would be unfair for this child to change settings until Easter and would prefer to muddle through till then.

Deb

jolliesdean
06-11-2013, 02:30 PM
Where did nitty Nora go ?? Never had these problems then. Totally agree it's your home and if the child is crawling then a sit down with mum to show her on a 1:1 basis the infestation. The child is funded so is meeting certain criteria for support , is that not what we should be doing as part of the agreement. Either parents just don't have a clue, maybe have other issues or just don't bother , which ever it needs a meeting to express your concerns and offer the best advice to enhance the poor child's life . Maybe suggest seeking support hv or even de louse and give her a chart when to put conditioner on and use comb. Poor mites head must be itching like mad.

JCrakers
06-11-2013, 02:38 PM
I hate nits, I had them once when I was about 19 (caught them off my 7yr old brother) but they were quite easy to get rid of. My own two children have been lucky not to get them, everytime a letter comes home I used to check their heads. By doing this I did once find a large louse but no eggs. I had caught it before it had laid.

I know some children seem to get them a lot and they can be very hard to get rid and I obviously wouldn't exclude for having nits but if I had a mindee who had them and I'd spoken to parents about it and they had done nothing about it then I would probably start to get annoyed as I don't want them in my house getting passed around when they can be so easily treated.

No, They are not a health risk but equally awful and irritating and if a parent had been told to treat and had ignored me I would probably end up saying, either treat them or child will not be attending until you have done. It doesn't take a lot of effort to condition and comb a child's hair and if they couldn't be bothered to do that then I would struggle with that.

FussyElmo
06-11-2013, 02:42 PM
This subject is so hard.

To exclude or not the main issue I have with excluding is how long do you exclude for. A parent could put treatment on tonight and miss one nit and still not be clear. That's why all the treatment recommends you retreat the following week. The treatment is horrendously expensive could you tell mum you get can treatment free if you go to the doctors. Well you can in this area. What about a mum tells you she cant afford to buy the treatment :(

My do told me that with the 2yo funding to expect stuff like this as the children did come from disadvantaged homes and that's why we were paid the enhanced rate :(

I wouldn't exclude because I cant afford to shut if any my children got nits :(

But then I do as Rickys said tea tree shampoo and I condition and wet comb once twice a week.

rickysmiths
06-11-2013, 02:44 PM
Rickysmiths, I do agree with everything you say about treatment (much of which is covered by the leaflets I mentioned), but I think it is missing the point to say that other parents cannot insist on an effective policy to minimise the exposure of their own children. They absolutely do have the power to insist that their children are safeguarded in that they are at liberty to give notice and seek alternative childcare - just as they might "vote with their feet" if they felt your were failing to deal effectively with another non-life threatening hazard such as another child biting.

That is true of course but it still does not justify excluding a child for something which is beyond their control. It could be the parent who is getting iffy whose child has head lice one day they are not picky as to who they choose. How would that parent then feel if they were excluded from their childminder/pre school or school. Yes a parent may not agree with the situation but I would not have any parent dictate to me who may or may not exclude from my setting and frankly if they are like that I would be happier without them. What about the feelings of the parent whose child you want to exclude?

Koala
06-11-2013, 02:48 PM
That is true of course but it still does not justify excluding a child for something which is beyond their control. It could be the parent who is getting iffy whose child has head lice one day they are not picky as to who they choose. How would that parent then feel if they were excluded from their childminder/pre school or school. Yes a parent may not agree with the situation but I would not have any parent dictate to me who may or may not exclude from my setting and frankly if they are like that I would be happier without them. What about the feelings of the parent whose child you want to exclude?

maybe if the parent does not want their child to be excluded because they have nits - the answer is simple - get rid of the nits. :thumbsup:
Nobody else can do it for them. They need to step up to the plate and take responsibility!

Tazmin68
06-11-2013, 02:50 PM
Ricky

I can see where you are coming from but I cannot afford to lose the only full timer that I have especially when the effected child is leaving me when they break up for Easter. And if a parent is ignoring and not treating then I really have no option as I have said when I have fetched over 100 out it is really a matter that cannot be ignored and obvious to anyone else that comes across the family. I have since reminded mum to clean the buggy seat as more than one child uses it she had not though about that.

rickysmiths
06-11-2013, 02:54 PM
I hate nits, I had them once when I was about 19 (caught them off my 7yr old brother) but they were quite easy to get rid of. My own two children have been lucky not to get them, everytime a letter comes home I used to check their heads. By doing this I did once find a large louse but no eggs. I had caught it before it had laid.

I know some children seem to get them a lot and they can be very hard to get rid and I obviously wouldn't exclude for having nits but if I had a mindee who had them and I'd spoken to parents about it and they had done nothing about it then I would probably start to get annoyed as I don't want them in my house getting passed around when they can be so easily treated.

No, They are not a health risk but equally awful and irritating and if a parent had been told to treat and had ignored me I would probably end up saying, either treat them or child will not be attending until you have done. It doesn't take a lot of effort to condition and comb a child's hair and if they couldn't be bothered to do that then I would struggle with that.

I agree with you except the last paragraph. If the child is getting the 2yr funding because they are from a disadvantaged home then there is a reason for this and maybe the parent does not understand how to do the treatment, where to get the right stuff, thinks they can't afford it, can't get to the doctor easily? I think this is why I would be speaking to the HV and or Children's Centre for some support for them. Just because we may know what to do does not mean all parents do. Also there may be other things happening at home that are making treatment difficult, maybe a partner won't accept it who knows .

jolliesdean
06-11-2013, 02:58 PM
maybe if the parent does not want their child to be excluded because they have nits - the answer is simple - get rid of the nits. :thumbsup: Nobody else can do it for them. They need to step up to the plate and take responsibility!

It's not as simple as that, we would live in a perfect world if parents stepped up, that's why we have funding for 2,3 and 4 year olds. I'm not saying it's a excuse and yeah the mum or father needs to take lead but sometimes people on the outside can and should give a nudge. Given that we all have got skills and knowledge to share, that's why we do this job we should maybe take the lead in helping, supporting and following up on this in partnership with them.

Koala
06-11-2013, 03:02 PM
It's not as simple as that, we would live in a perfect world if parents stepped up, that's why we have funding for 2,3 and 4 year olds. I'm not saying it's a excuse and yeah the mum or father needs to take lead but sometimes people on the outside can and should give a nudge. Given that we all have got skills and knowledge to share, that's why we do this job we should maybe take the lead in helping, supporting and following up on this in partnership with them.

Totally agree!! and from the sounds of it this individual has been advised, asked and supported and still has not done anything about their child in fact all they have done is complained to the LA about the childminder raising the issue!! :thumbsup:

Tazmin68
06-11-2013, 03:23 PM
I agree with you except the last paragraph. If the child is getting the 2yr funding because they are from a disadvantaged home then there is a reason for this and maybe the parent does not understand how to do the treatment, where to get the right stuff, thinks they can't afford it, can't get to the doctor easily? I think this is why I would be speaking to the HV and or Children's Centre for some support for them. Just because we may know what to do does not mean all parents do. Also there may be other things happening at home that are making treatment difficult, maybe a partner won't accept it who knows .

I have been working with social workers, health visitor. Mom has attended parenting classes. I liaise with pastoral contact at primary school and we let each other know when we see lice. Currently I know 3,of the children have them. I have given parent nitty gritty comb and conditioner explained how to treat. I have reported to social worker who is going to visit this week. I have permission to treat as in bath, condition and comb child's hair which I cannot do now as other mindees no linger having a nap. By the way parenting classes do not even teach parents about lice. I don't know what more anyone can expect me yo do.

Tazmin68
06-11-2013, 03:29 PM
This subject is so hard. To exclude or not the main issue I have with excluding is how long do you exclude for. A parent could put treatment on tonight and miss one nit and still not be clear. That's why all the treatment recommends you retreat the following week. The treatment is horrendously expensive could you tell mum you get can treatment free if you go to the doctors. Well you can in this area. What about a mum tells you she cant afford to buy the treatment :( My do told me that with the 2yo funding to expect stuff like this as the children did come from disadvantaged homes and that's why we were paid the enhanced rate :( I wouldn't exclude because I cant afford to shut if any my children got nits :( But then I do as Rickys said tea tree shampoo and I condition and wet comb once twice a week. I do not really want to have to bath and treat child while another mindee is awake which is what you are suggesting. The only option is put other mindee in travel cot on landing where I can see him from the bathroom but he will kick up a stink while I am bathing other child. But if I told the parent that I was doing this then I would also have an unhappy parent. I have bathed and treated mindee from March until July since then I have used spray in conditioner and combed and if I find any I tell mom to continue at home and I do this twice a week. I have given parent nitty gritty comb and conditioner so she knows that it could be sorted if made the effort.

k-tots
06-11-2013, 03:34 PM
This has nothing to do with getting nits or not, in fact they prefer a clean head. The state of the child's cleanliness id a different matter altogether.

Maybe all the parents don't know how to deal with them? I have had to give lessons to many parents over the years from all levels of education and background.

I agree with this.......when we get the note from school I tell my parent I also check all my kids...I also get my oh to check me and I him.....I also change the bedding evenif I had done it the night before.....most nhs authorities also now will give nit lotion out without a prescription though yhe chemist. ..w have pink books to take along that we can get stuff like this on nhs.......also there are people that are more prone to getting them as nits like certain environments. ....think need to build a nest so they can live in there then thow it away lol

Koala
06-11-2013, 03:42 PM
I do not really want to have to bath and treat child while another mindee is awake which is what you are suggesting. The only option is put other mindee in travel cot on landing where I can see him from the bathroom but he will kick up a stink while I am bathing other child. But if I told the parent that I was doing this then I would also have an unhappy parent.

Tazmin, I am amazed at what you do :littleangel: , I wouldn't and you shouldn't have to. GOOD LUCK WITH ANY IMPROVEMENT. :thumbsup:

FussyElmo
06-11-2013, 03:46 PM
I do not really want to have to bath and treat child while another mindee is awake which is what you are suggesting. The only option is put other mindee in travel cot on landing where I can see him from the bathroom but he will kick up a stink while I am bathing other child. But if I told the parent that I was doing this then I would also have an unhappy parent.

I didnt say you had to bath and treat the child I was trying to say that if they are from a disadvantaged family then expecting them to afford £34 in 7 days is maybe impractical.

jolliesdean
06-11-2013, 03:51 PM
I have been working with social workers, health visitor. Mom has attended parenting classes. I liaise with pastoral contact at primary school and we let each other know when we see lice. Currently I know 3,of the children have them. I have given parent nitty gritty comb and conditioner explained how to treat. I have reported to social worker who is going to visit this week. I have permission to treat as in bath, condition and comb child's hair which I cannot do now as other mindees no linger having a nap. By the way parenting classes do not even teach parents about lice. I don't know what more anyone can expect me yo do.


Can I say you have gone above and beyond, don't think a lot of us were aware that you had already done all this from your original post. The LA saying you can not exclude I get but you need to state that this is effecting others and there needs to be a end post ie termination as you can not offer the same imput due to younger mindees. These post are like training sessions gets everyone thinking and brain storming ( don't think can say that any more ) any way. Hope you get it sorted, ask for another meeting with professionals to explain you just have not got time, good luck

Tazmin68
06-11-2013, 04:27 PM
I have advised mom that she needs to get on top of the lice problem especially as I am having younger sibling start in January under the 2 year funding and that I have reservations on having both of them for the spring term unless it is brought under control. I have explained that I need to notify the LA as to who is attending the spring term early December so she has 4 weeks for the situation to improve.

Deb

rickysmiths
06-11-2013, 04:47 PM
maybe if the parent does not want their child to be excluded because they have nits - the answer is simple - get rid of the nits. :thumbsup:
Nobody else can do it for them. They need to step up to the plate and take responsibility!

Maybe they don't know how to Koala. Sometime nits can be very difficult for a parent who knows what they are doing to get rid of them never mind one who doesn't. It isn't always that black and white and I am very sad when i see childminders being so harsh about someone. Come on the child gets the funding because they come from a deprived background???? Maybe the mum doesn't know what to do or how to do it, maybe there is opposition at home who knows but just because we have the knowledge and ability to do something does not mean others do.

Koala
06-11-2013, 04:47 PM
I have advised mom that she needs to get on top of the lice problem especially as I am having younger sibling start in January under the 2 year funding and that I have reservations on having both of them for the spring term unless it is brought under control. I have explained that I need to notify the LA as to who is attending the spring term early December so she has 4 weeks for the situation to improve.

Deb

I think you are doing right - mum really has to do something for the children's sake.
And again - I take my hat off to you :thumbsup:

rickysmiths
06-11-2013, 05:00 PM
Totally agree!! and from the sounds of it this individual has been advised, asked and supported and still has not done anything about their child in fact all they have done is complained to the LA about the childminder raising the issue!! :thumbsup:

Well maybe that is an indication of their lack of understanding or maybe the way it has been dealt with or maybe the parent is embarrassed to admit they don't know what to do. Over the years there have been many times when I have treated such children and physically taught the parent how to do it because even though some of them are on 6 figure salaries and have umpteen degrees they hadn't got a clue how to deal with nits! They were very grateful for the help and the instruction.

Also it can happen that with some children it is very difficult to irradiate the nits. I remember years ago a Head Teacher friend tearing her hair out because one family in the school whatever treatment was given they could just not fully get rid of the nits. Doctor HV etc etc all tried to help and nothing did. They even took with the families agreement, the unusual step of excluding them from school for a time to try and break the cycle to no avail. The children returned to school and they just kept treating and eventually they did go. It was an exasperating experience for all of them. Things are not always black and white and we are supposed to be supportive professionals and sometimes life deals us a funny hand.

If nits have not been experienced before, I always have a chat with parents before their children go into a Pre School or School environment and explain how to prevent, how to treat, the fact it attacks clean hair, advise to tie long hair up +++. We all have a first time and I was mortified when my son got them at High School, we had gone all through Primary with nothing and he got them in his first term and they were stubborn little devils. I didn't close my setting because he had them, I informed all the parents at the time and advised them what to do thankfully no one else got them.

SYLVIA
06-11-2013, 07:35 PM
My daughter, now 24, had head lice on and off for 18 months in yr 1&2 at school.Everyone knew which child was spreading them round and told the school too. They said they couldn't speak to the parents about it because it was an invasion of their privacy.

bindy
06-11-2013, 09:14 PM
One of my very clean, well educated parents, 6 year old daughter had nits for over a year!! Mum tried everything, one day she would be clear the next she had them again. I was very good at making sure she never touched heads with other mindees.( she was very aware too ) My daughter did get them once from her, but hay ho, it was fine, I got rid pretty quickly! I would never had excluded her. In the end, the only way to keep them at bay was to have her very long, beautiful, tight curly hair cut short! That way her parents was able to treat every inch, the nits had no where to hide ! It only takes one !!

Tazmin68
06-11-2013, 09:59 PM
It is easier to deal with school aged children with lice they are either before or after school plus know not to touch heads. It is when it is a 2 year old who is passing it onto a 1 year old and the 2 year old only attends 15 hours a week in term time and the 1 year old is full time. I cannot afford to lose the full time income and quite understandably parent getting annoyed at having to treat her child because other parent does nothing. School nurse, health visitor, myself and social worker have all tried to explain to mum how to treat and in all there are 5 children in family with another on the way.

TooEarlyForGin?
06-11-2013, 10:19 PM
It is easier to deal with school aged children with lice they are either before or after school plus know not to touch heads. It is when it is a 2 year old who is passing it onto a 1 year old and the 2 year old only attends 15 hours a week in term time and the 1 year old is full time. I cannot afford to lose the full time income and quite understandably parent getting annoyed at having to treat her child because other parent does nothing. School nurse, health visitor, myself and social worker have all tried to explain to mum how to treat and in all there are 5 children in family with another on the way.

Well done, I think you have worked very hard and tried as best as you can.

I understand all points of view, but at the end of the day this is your home, and business. I can't imaging a nursery or school doing all you have done. A teacher will not loose their job over an issue like this, whereas you are obviously in danger of loosing your income, so the two cannot be compared. It isn't necessarily a child's fault if they are from a disadvantaged background but have severe behavioural problems which cannot be coped with in a small setting, but sometimes we cannot do everything.

Mummits
07-11-2013, 09:14 AM
I agree - you have done everything that could reasonably be expected and more. I think you should be proud of yourself, not disappointed.

dawn100
07-11-2013, 11:48 AM
I can see both sides to this argument and am torn as to was is / isn't the right thing to do.
I know nit treatment can be very expensive but I have found you dont actually need to use it, my eldest son seems to get nits all the time but doesnt notice them - they don't make him itch so in the past has been crawling with them before I realised! The first time he had them he must of had over 100 (his hair was fairly long for a boy) it took months getting rid of them all using treatments costing me a fortune. So the next time he had them, head crawling with them again, I got a nitty gritty comb which I wet combed daily which was great at getting rid of most but wasn't getting all the eggs, the best thing I have found now is I wet comb to get rid of as much as possible and also ensure there are no knots in the hair and then when the hair is dry I dry comb with the nitty gritty comb and this gets rid of loads of the eggs focusing particularly on behind the ears and at the neck line - favourite egg laying spots, when you wipe the comb on toilet paper you will see small brownish little bits smaller than a pin head that is the eggs you want to get rid off!

Tazmin68
07-11-2013, 12:21 PM
I would have loved to say that I cannot exclude for head lice but I have to put my business head on and also see the situation from the mom whose 15 month old child keeps catching head lice from another child in my setting. Having had to treat her child 3 times since May she is getting fed up and at some point she might give notice. I know I would if I put myself in her position.

And it is not for the lack of trying to help the other family get rid of lice. I can do my bit and I have bathed and nitty gritty the child with lice but if parents is not willing to deal with the issue with the other 4 siblings to the extent that one of them has been on antibiotics due to scalp infection what else can I do.

MessybutHappy
07-11-2013, 01:12 PM
Hi Tamzin
Firstly, I remember reading about your work with this child some time ago and said then how amazing you are for going above and beyond!

I have found a new Hedrin product, it's a mousse that you apply straight onto dry hair and then wash out 8 hours later. I wondered if you applied this first thing each week then Mum washed out that night? The application takes seconds so no need to abandon your other mindee...It washes out like a dream too - no more needing four or five shampoos to stop the greasy look!

I know it's not cheap, but perhaps the social services teams that you are in contact with could arrange for it to be given on prescription?

Just a thought.

PS - I still think you are amazing in what you've done for the family. The child will benefit from your continued involvement in her life, I'm sure, if you can find a way to make it work.

jackie 7
07-11-2013, 01:33 PM
You deserve a medal for all the work you are doing with this family. That new hedrin sounds good. This reminds me of my old nanny days. In 1 posh school before princes went the head mistresses husband would stand at the top of the steps and say very loudly mrs @@@@ your son has nits!! Worked very well. At another posh girls school if got so bad that the girls were sent home until they were treated. At both schools parents/nanny had to take turns doing nit check every week. For some weird reason hedrin changed to Heston with spel check!!!!

emma04
07-11-2013, 01:57 PM
Having read 80% of this thread and evaluated the responses it comes down to the same old thing.........excuses for poor poor parenting!

Call me harsh, old fashioned or whatever you wish but WHEN did we sign up for substitute parent duty???

The child in OP is obviously known to SS and their parent/s are clearly being supported. However, when the support begins to fall on deaf ears, the only people to blame are the parents I'm afraid!!

It's about time we stopped being politically correct and over helpful and started SHAKING some of these parents into dealing with their responsibilities!! THEIR being the key word here!!!

I understand totally that there are poorly educated families who require lots of support and agree totally that they should receive it!! WHAT annoys me are the parents that soak up the support, the help, the extra pair of hands, the extra money and special arrangements that are made for them (for the sake of the children) AND STILL sit on their asses, oblivious to what has been offered to them!
Just because you are "poor" you are not provided with an excuse to shirk responsibilities and pass the care of your children on to others!!

Their are many "poor" families out there some whom accept support and others that don't, who do everything and anything to provide a safe, caring and nurturing environment for their children......it's a crying shame that others (who seem to accept everything on offer.... And more!!) do absolutely nothing with it and reside on their decrepit sofas, fag in hand whilst everyone else worries about THEIR children!!

We need a 3 strike system.....ignore the support and your children become "looked after" and anyone who says a child is best left with their family (who have failed to care for them properly) should lift the anchor on their human rights boat and sail away!

Any loving parent/parent will accept help if offered carefully and considerately and would rather have pins stuck in their eyes than run the risk of losing their children!!

Controversial, harsh, non politically correct and blasts human rights BUT all just my opinion.

Rachel6
07-11-2013, 01:57 PM
Hi Tamzin,you are doing a fab job,I also had a child like this & while I treated her at mine with just wet combing with tea cond the parents were not washing soft toys & putting them away till nits had gone,or bedding hats,coats,clothes etc,so it went on & on. Can't really give any advice but big hugs x

bindy
07-11-2013, 09:38 PM
Having read 80% of this thread and evaluated the responses it comes down to the same old thing.........excuses for poor poor parenting!

Call me harsh, old fashioned or whatever you wish but WHEN did we sign up for substitute parent duty???

The child in OP is obviously known to SS and their parent/s are clearly being supported. However, when the support begins to fall on deaf ears, the only people to blame are the parents I'm afraid!!

It's about time we stopped being politically correct and over helpful and started SHAKING some of these parents into dealing with their responsibilities!! THEIR being the key word here!!!

I understand totally that there are poorly educated families who require lots of support and agree totally that they should receive it!! WHAT annoys me are the parents that soak up the support, the help, the extra pair of hands, the extra money and special arrangements that are made for them (for the sake of the children) AND STILL sit on their asses, oblivious to what has been offered to them!
Just because you are "poor" you are not provided with an excuse to shirk responsibilities and pass the care of your children on to others!!

Their are many "poor" families out there some whom accept support and others that don't, who do everything and anything to provide a safe, caring and nurturing environment for their children......it's a crying shame that others (who seem to accept everything on offer.... And more!!) do absolutely nothing with it and reside on their decrepit sofas, fag in hand whilst everyone else worries about THEIR children!!

We need a 3 strike system.....ignore the support and your children become "looked after" and anyone who says a child is best left with their family (who have failed to care for them properly) should lift the anchor on their human rights boat and sail away!

Any loving parent/parent will accept help if offered carefully and considerately and would rather have pins stuck in their eyes than run the risk of losing their children!!

Controversial, harsh, non politically correct and blasts human rights BUT all just my opinion.

No you are not being hash or controversial just doing the stereotype thing, believe you me I have worked for the very rich and famous and some of those parents did not give two hoots about their children nits or no nits but the difference being they paid people like me to have them 24 7. Yes I guess they had clean faces and the best clothes but try dealing with a small child who goes looking for his parents one morning, to find out they had go off to the USA for 6 weeks! Shall we put them into care too?

Koala
07-11-2013, 09:43 PM
No you are not being hash or controversial just doing the stereotype thing, believe you me I have worked for the very rich and famous and some of those parents did not give two hoots about their children nits or no nits but the difference being they paid people like me to have them 24 7. Yes I guess they had clean faces and the best clothes but try dealing with a small child who goes looking for his parents one morning, to find out they had go off to the USA for 6 weeks! Shall we put them into care too?

It sounds like they are already in 'care'. :thumbsup:

teacakepenguin
07-11-2013, 10:44 PM
AAAARGH MY HEAD IS ITCHING!!!

Seriously you deserve a medal for not just throwing the towel in, but you are losing a battle surely. I bet no bedding is washed at home, nor toys, nor seats, hats etc. They don't survive long off the body but can last a few hours or is it longer? If other children of hers are getting ill through the lice then surely she's neglecting them?

My friend used to have an electronic zapper that at least could kill the adult lice, if not get the eggs out, that could help prevent cross contamination a little.

Urgh though, my head is seriously itching :(

Jx

hectors house
08-11-2013, 08:24 AM
Surely this parent can get head lice treatment free on prescription - everyone had head lice in my daughters year 2 class - it was a regular occurance, one year we planned to play suck the pea up with a straw at her birthday party and I was tempted to put a nit comb in the party bags. I remember every Sunday night after bath and hair wash, sitting combing my daughter's long hair, checking for nits and picking out dead eggs that look so unsightly, used to take about an hour. Few years ago my husband had gone out Xmas shopping on Xmas Eve (leave it all to the last minute) and I had to ask him to pop into a supermarket to get some headlice treatment as both me and youngest daughter were itching!

Tazmin68
08-11-2013, 11:44 AM
Yes if wanted to make effort mom could easily get sorted. I gave her free nitty gritty comb and a large bottle of conditioner. I think it is going to take the social worker having a oh absinthe and threatening that she could lose the children again which is what happened in June which did the trick for a 2/3 months.

emma04
08-11-2013, 03:03 PM
No you are not being hash or controversial just doing the stereotype thing, believe you me I have worked for the very rich and famous and some of those parents did not give two hoots about their children nits or no nits but the difference being they paid people like me to have them 24 7. Yes I guess they had clean faces and the best clothes but try dealing with a small child who goes looking for his parents one morning, to find out they had go off to the USA for 6 weeks! Shall we put them into care too?

Emotional neglect is far more difficult to sort out. Those children were well cared for but lacked parental love and attention, therefore putting them into "care" wouldn't make any difference to the life that they were already living.

My post probably is stereotypical, conformist or lacks in originality.......but it's still points out the truth that, money and support is being wasted at the expense of a child's needs over and over again! This to me, is wrong and shouldn't be ignored.

We can all sit here and think "same old stereotypical attitude" but if something was done to prevent the wasted effort, time and money, then attitudes would no longer be stereotypical and would actually be considered as a "refreshing change!" Instead.

Mummits
08-11-2013, 04:54 PM
I don't think Emma's post was stereotyping. Now if she had said all parents who were not well off were lazy, that would be stereotyping. But in my view to say that some are hardworking and decent whilst others are idle is just true. Plus there are of course those who are not idle but are poor parents in other ways. The dilemma is what to do about it, given that it is not fair to make the children suffer for the shortcomings of their parents. The other challenge is to try to prevent the children turning out just like their parents.

bindy
09-11-2013, 12:32 AM
I don't think Emma's post was stereotyping. Now if she had said all parents who were not well off were lazy, that would be stereotyping. But in my view to say that some are hardworking and decent whilst others are idle is just true. Plus there are of course those who are not idle but are poor parents in other ways. The dilemma is what to do about it, given that it is not fair to make the children suffer for the shortcomings of their parents. The other challenge is to try to prevent the children turning out just like their parents.

Like I said stereotyping because its implying that children who are abused come from "poor lazy families, even though not all "poor" are lazy or abuse their children, god forbid some even work hard! I am guessing no child that is abuse come from middle or the well off?

I know what Emma is getting at though! But don't just think the dirty, nitty kids are the only ones being abused. But I guess the clean middle class families are not costing us money!