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Mummits
28-10-2013, 06:16 PM
I have just had a parent (the second one in recent months!) accept a place, have me go through and complete contracts (which they happily signed) and all the other paperwork, claim not to have a chequebook and say they will do an electronic transfer for the deposit, and then change their mind. To make matters worse, she did not even bother to let me know - I just popped round to drop off her copy of one of the forms and she said I don't need you actually, I have decided not to return to work (no apology or anything). She clearly did not reach this conclusion as I reached her doorstep, so why the heck could she not just give me a ring, or text or email? To make matters worse, her son is friends with mine, so I will have to be polite at the school gates (definitely not feeling too friendly at the moment).

This is in my view worse than failing to turn up for an appointment, or failing to get in touch to say whether you want a place. It is such a waste of time and effort to fill in all those forms and still not know if the parents are going to proceed. How do others deal with this, or do you just hope for the best? Short of demanding cash up front, which would surely seem pretty hostile to genuine people, I can't think how to spot the timewasters.

Koala
28-10-2013, 06:31 PM
How rude, it has happened to me, filled contract etc... I went on holiday for two weeks so didn't bother with deposit, got phone call day before starting to say not coming, what can you do?

Now I don't do contract or confirm place until deposit has been paid. FULL STOP. I give policies and procedures out first, then take it from there.

What a crappy thing to do!!

little chickee
28-10-2013, 06:36 PM
I would suspect that you could find that she may be a new childminder fishing for your policys, procedures etc to save her having to do them herself.

Suspicous moi?!

Mouse
28-10-2013, 06:38 PM
Really the only thing you can do is say it's cash only for a deposit. If parents know they are coming to you, they can get the cash out of the bank.

When they turn up, you ask for the cash before you write anything on a form. If they haven't got the cash, you say "oh, OK. We won't do the contracts now then, but you know your space isn't reserved until cash is paid and contracts completed".

little chickee
28-10-2013, 06:38 PM
Oh and you can try to prevent it by insisting on a cash deposit. No deposit and they do not leave the premisies with the paperwork.
And don't leave her on her own with them either cos she could photo them with her phone.

Once bitten, twice shy!

BlondeMoment
28-10-2013, 06:56 PM
This has happened to me a couple of times actually and I now refuse to fill out and sign a contract without a deposit because the PACEY contracts are so expensive! I explain this to parents now and say I can't put anything in place without the deposit. Some people are so rude but this method filters out most of the time wasters

k1rstie
28-10-2013, 07:03 PM
I would suspect that you could find that she may be a new childminder fishing for your policys, procedures etc to save her having to do them herself.

Suspicous moi?!

Seriously?

bunyip
28-10-2013, 08:56 PM
I would suspect that you could find that she may be a new childminder fishing for your policys, procedures etc to save her having to do them herself.

Suspicous moi?!

Sadly, it would not surprise me in the slightest if you're right. :(

clairer
28-10-2013, 09:19 PM
That is really bad. Many many times I have had a parent being really keen, saying they want a place for definite- then at the last minute after a week or two of keeping you hanging announce they are going with someone else, who lives closer, suits their needs better, are cheaper etc. They like to keep you in reserve though- making you think you are getting the work. Gutting, truly gutting. Especially the "you are really lovely and your environment is really lovely BUT....":(

bunyip
28-10-2013, 09:30 PM
That is really bad. Many many times I have had a parent being really keen, saying they want a place for definite- then at the last minute after a week or two of keeping you hanging announce they are going with someone else, who lives closer, suits their needs better, are cheaper etc. They like to keep you in reserve though- making you think you are getting the work. Gutting, truly gutting. Especially the "you are really lovely and your environment is really lovely BUT....":(

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. P's me off too. :mad:

I've had 3 of these in as many weeks. 2 actually thought I was the better CM fr their child, but less convenient for their commute. Great isn't it? I mean, who'd want to put themselves out spending and extra 5 minutes in the car, just to have a happier child? :huh:

Mind you, I've lost more to our local newbie CM who whips them out from under your nose before they have time to sign. :angry:

MessybutHappy
28-10-2013, 09:31 PM
You could introduce a registration fee which would cover you're time and the cost of the paperwork?

hectors house
28-10-2013, 09:42 PM
A friend of mine does a temporary settling in contract form (form she has made herself) before she wastes her time and money completing a PACEY one, in Mummits case this wouldn't have prevented this situation but it would have saved money on a wasted contract. Like everyone else has said "no money" no space guaranteed - trouble is we are all too nice and wouldn't dream of treating other people like this.

When a buyer backed out on buying our house many years ago, at the last minute (just before Xmas) I felt I needed to tell them how :censored: off I was - so I wrote them a letter telling them I was brought up believing that an Englishman's word was his bond, but that clearly they weren't brought up having the same morals! It didn't make any difference to the deal but it made me feel better.

k1rstie
28-10-2013, 09:52 PM
Mind you, I've lost more to our local newbie CM who whips them out from under your nose before they have time to sign. :angry:

A couple of years ago, we had a new batch of new minders turn up, all with loads of children. As at the time everyone else had vacancies, I asked one how she had managed to fill hers.

She replied that they were told to under cut the local minders by their ICP (or whatever it is called now) tutor!!!!!

tas
28-10-2013, 10:08 PM
That is so annoying, i've had similar happen to me and now only do contracts when they pay the deposit. If they havn't brought a cheque book/cash I will rearrange for another day at least then you know they are serious about using your setting.

MessybutHappy
28-10-2013, 10:13 PM
A couple of years ago, we had a new batch of new minders turn up, all with loads of children. As at the time everyone else had vacancies, I asked one how she had managed to fill hers.

She replied that they were told to under cut the local minders by their ICP (or whatever it is called now) tutor!!!!!

I undercut, but only because I didn't feel I could charge as much as an experienced cm, not because anyone suggested it! That soon changed!

Bunyip... They'll be full before you know it, keep the faith!

miffy
28-10-2013, 10:24 PM
I don't complete contracts or give out any paperwork until the deposit is paid - when people have to part with money you know they are serious and want the place.

Still it's a horrible experience to go through - bad enough when it's a stranger, much worse when it's someone you know and may see every day. Hope you get some more genuine enquiries soon

Miffy xx

Bluebell
28-10-2013, 10:34 PM
How rude - how some people have the cheek I really don't know!

I guess its something we learn from - I never used to take a deposit but have started to now. I think mentioning the deposit is needed at time of signing contracts is a good way to go and then parents know that if they want to sign then a deposit needs to be bought with them. I don't take cheques anymore (another lesson learnt on the way) Something else I will have to bring in - although I often get caught out - sometimes I think people are coming for an initial visit /chat and will come back another day to sign contracts only to discover they want to do it all there and then!

just smile and wave when you see the woman.

I defnitely wouldn't hang around too long for someone to sign up now either - they want the space or they don't and if someone else wants it I will be clear with the other person that they will miss out.

Good luck - you probably had a lucky escape with that parent and I hope you have a lovely parent take the place. xx

Mummits
29-10-2013, 07:09 AM
Thank you all for your kind words and suggestions. I can see I am going to have to change the way I do business to make sure I do get a deposit up front. I think I will have to write it all up and put it in my introductory pack so that I stick to it. I do find it hard to be firm about money.

Looking on the bright side, I don't think we have a particularly cutthroat childminding market around here. I don't really see many children going to other minders, it's usually friends or family step in, or mums decide on a day nursery, or decide against working altogether, like this one.

Anyhow, a new day and who knows who may call!

Bluebell
29-10-2013, 07:34 AM
I found it extremely embarrassing to ask about payment when I started like overdue payments or a shortfall in payment but I had someone leave owing me money with no notice - it wasn't a lot fortunately as just 2 weeks before she had caught up with several weeks owing so it could have been a lot worse. I made the assumption she would pay me cos she needed me but as it turned out she lost her job so she didn't need me at all! I lost 2 weeks pay and the 4 weeks notice.

Now I find it easier because I write it in an invoice and stick it in the bag or e-mail it to them. If they already paid I make sure i give a receipt or if its a bulk payment I write the invoice up with what days have been covered and write paid with thanks on the bottom.

I always say to parents to check I've done it right. I have made mistakes and said I'm really sorry I over-charged you and they say oh I didn't even realise (!)

I try not to be embarrassed now and more matter of fact. If its coming up for when they owe money and I know they may forget I remind them and put an invoice in the bag, or the receipt of the last payment so they know where the money is going up to.
When a mum underpaid me recently I asked if she could check what she's calculated as I'd made it different and sent her the calculations.
IT depends on the parents too as to how awqward it is too. I had new parents and on the first day I was telling them how their baby got on and still getting to know the parents and the baby, listening to the parent telling me about how they manage getting to sleep at home etc and just as the parent was leaving I realised I hadn't asked about money, but decided it would be too awqward so didn't. However I knew that the parent had started with me as desperate to find childcare for an under 1, other chldminder had dropped them in it, and no other childminders had space for an under 1 AND I had taken a 4 week deposit so I left it and then the next week I dropped them a quick e-mail and said I'm really sorry I was so busy chatting I completely forgot about the money and told them what they would owe for that day and the next day - as it turned out they then paid me for the 4 weeks and apologised because they had forgotten too but were going to ask me how I wanted paying.

There are all sorts of things we have to have difficult conversations with to parents and I'm finding the money side of things easier. It does depend on the parent though I feel.

** maybe in all dealings pretend you are working in a shop or a big business - a customer wouldn't be able to leave without paying or whatever and you wouldn't be in a position to say oh yeah that's ok don't worry about it

bunyip
29-10-2013, 10:31 AM
I undercut, but only because I didn't feel I could charge as much as an experienced cm, not because anyone suggested it! That soon changed!

Bunyip... They'll be full before you know it, keep the faith!

I figured out what was happening when 2 mums called to apologise, but "another CM has offered me a lower fee". I asked how that could be possible as we'd not actually finalised a fee, and they said "she offered to charge less than other CM in the area."

I'm now on the offensive and send any 'nutcase' enquirers her way, and she's welcome to them. I love what another local CM is doing (she's the most experienced and very canny.) She writes out an 'estimate' of £2ph on headed notepaper and sends them round to the newbie. I do hope she thinks she's clever by undercutting that very fake rate. :D

Mummits
29-10-2013, 11:21 AM
I'm now on the offensive and send any 'nutcase' enquirers her way, and she's welcome to them. I love what another local CM is doing (she's the most experienced and very canny.) She writes out an 'estimate' of £2ph on headed notepaper and sends them round to the newbie. I do hope she thinks she's clever by undercutting that very fake rate. :D

Oh my - you couldn't make this up!

One of the best pieces of advice (I think) I had from an experienced CM, when I was starting out, was DON'T be the least expensive in the area, or you will attract all the parents who ONLY care about the pennies. She also said I can't be bothered with people who give you their most precious possession to care for, but are then prepared to argue about the price of a cup of coffee. I bet the newbie who thinks she is being clever will earn her money from her nutcases and someonepinchers.

Auto correct has gone mad! Why can't I say P e n n y pinchers?

Bluebell
29-10-2013, 02:58 PM
I'm now on the offensive and send any 'nutcase' enquirers her way, and she's welcome to them. I love what another local CM is doing (she's the most experienced and very canny.) She writes out an 'estimate' of £2ph on headed notepaper and sends them round to the newbie. I do hope she thinks she's clever by undercutting that very fake rate. :D[/QUOTE]

Ha ha - I like the idea of sending nutcases to the ones that are undercutting! I also like the idea of the fake estimate in the hope that the one undercutting will undercut at silly rates! so funny! Is that like a leaflet drop but only to targeted newbie childminder? Very canny indeed!

dawn100
29-10-2013, 03:36 PM
When I first started out I was advised to find out what the rate was locally and go for the middle of the road as you don't want to undercut and only attract people who are after the cheapest possible but not to go to the highest price and appear greedy. When I know parents are visiting other childminders I never ask how much they charge as my fees and terms remain the same regardless. If you're always under cutting you will lose out in the end as you'll end up working for less, it's very short sighted!

hectors house
29-10-2013, 03:39 PM
I'm now on the offensive and send any 'nutcase' enquirers her way, and she's welcome to them. I love what another local CM is doing (she's the most experienced and very canny.) She writes out an 'estimate' of £2ph on headed notepaper and sends them round to the newbie. I do hope she thinks she's clever by undercutting that very fake rate. :D

Ha ha - I like the idea of sending nutcases to the ones that are undercutting! I also like the idea of the fake estimate in the hope that the one undercutting will undercut at silly rates! so funny! Is that like a leaflet drop but only to targeted newbie childminder? Very canny indeed![/QUOTE]

Many years ago I used to work for a company that sold an animal pharmaceutical product that was used as a loss leader by another agricultural company - When customers used to ring up for a price I would tell them £8.10 (which was as cheap as we could do without making a loss) but customers often would say, Oh but X over at the market are selling it for £7.45, I would say go and buy it from them then, they would say Oh but they haven't got any and I would reply well what we haven't got is only £7 but what we have got is £8.10 - take it or leave it!

bunyip
30-10-2013, 09:59 AM
Oh my - you couldn't make this up!

One of the best pieces of advice (I think) I had from an experienced CM, when I was starting out, was DON'T be the least expensive in the area, or you will attract all the parents who ONLY care about the pennies. She also said I can't be bothered with people who give you their most precious possession to care for, but are then prepared to argue about the price of a cup of coffee. I bet the newbie who thinks she is being clever will earn her money from her nutcases and someonepinchers.

Auto correct has gone mad! Why can't I say P e n n y pinchers?

Good advice there Mummits. :thumbsup:

I keep flyers from my local dog-walking service and hairdressers, just to show grumbling 1p-pinchers what they'd pay per hour for other (clearly more important) things than caring for their precious lo's. I don't look at the rates to often, or I start to weep. :(

Has autocorrect thought you named a child/client called "P3nny" - or did you miss-spell it as a male anatomical bit (p3n1s-pincher: ow! makes this guys' eyes water just thinking of it??? :p)

bunyip
30-10-2013, 10:03 AM
When I first started out I was advised to find out what the rate was locally and go for the middle of the road as you don't want to undercut and only attract people who are after the cheapest possible but not to go to the highest price and appear greedy. When I know parents are visiting other childminders I never ask how much they charge as my fees and terms remain the same regardless. If you're always under cutting you will lose out in the end as you'll end up working for less, it's very short sighted!

When I started, my DO (more accurately the worst 1/2 of my DO job-sharing team) told me "to charge £##.## give or take because that's what the rest of the CM group do." I told her to swivel cos I'm self-employed and cartels are illegal.

Actually, I found out I was wrong. The local CM group isn't a cartel, it's more like a mafia with the DO as Don Whatsisname. :mad: