mouldy lunchbox?!

[jaykay79]

hi, bit of an awkward one here. mindees mum and dad appear to be perfectly normal clean people (been to their house and it was fine) but their son is not (2.5 yo) his ears are caked thick with browny orangey earwax (he can't hear properly sometimes because of it i am convinced), mum openly admitted to me she doesn't wash his hair (as he doesn't like it), when i change his first nappy of the day (before i've cleaned him up) the smell of unwashed stale urine from down there is unbearable! i can only assume he is not wiped between nappies at home. hands/nails always dirty/greasy and the final most gross thing of all is his lunchbox. it has mould growing all over it inside and out, at first i couldn't believe it but that was a week ago and now it is practically walking around the house! as soon as it comes in i double bag it up and it leaves my house that way too! he still has a bottle of milk in the afternoon and that is invariably a mouldy bottle too (that orange slimy mould on this item) from where the teat is clearly never removed between uses and the bottle itself just reeks. when the bottle comes in this state i won't use it obviously and send it home in the state it arrived in. my thing is this, how can i tell her to sort all this stuff out without offending her?! i mean there's so many issues do i just launch them all at her in one go?! also, she is my best earner and i'm frightened of offending her but the poor kid is so smelly and dirty it's just gross! he is always ill and i am not surprised! i don't think this is neglect as such as i know she loves him to bits and he is always very happy to see her but it doesn't sit right with me at all and sad as it is to say it, i don't enjoy physical contact with him at all anymore, in fact i avoid it! :(

[Koala]

errrr OMG what a dirty moo moo!

I think she needs a bit of a nudge, she really may not realize this is not acceptable, Do you think you could show by example? I think I would have to sanitize lunch box, bottle and kid all in one and send them home sparkling clean with a box of persil :D

[sing-low]

Oh ewww! That is just horrid. Poor little one. Actually, it is neglect. I'm not disputing that Mum doesn't love him to bits but that doesn't override the fact that she is not properly caring for her son and he is being put at risk because of this. I think you need to report this. Document it all and give Social Care a ring. Not a nice thing to have to do, I know, but I don't see that you have any choice, really.

[dawn100]

When I first started reading your post you mentioned the ear wax which my ds suffers with and I dread people thinking I don't care for him as I've been to the doctors and regularly has ear drops but still frequently has visible thick earwax. But then I went on to read the rest and that's really quiet concerning, I think you have to be brave and log your concerns and talk to mum as it does sound like its neglect or lack of understanding about hygiene and the impact it can have.

[Ali56]

This IS neglect, and you must act. Neglect is not just physical abuse and shouting/depriving of food etc. In the first place contact your development officer for some advice, and go from there. Have a proper talk with mum about what his needs are. Then if mum will not accept your advice and wash his things and him, then you must follow your safeguarding procedure. She is putting him in danger ( no wonder he is always ill) by not cleaning his bottle/lunchbox, or washing him, leaving him in stale urine etc. It may just be that she is struggling to cope and needs some support-this sort of neglect is not always deliberate, but depression in the mother is often there too (and the feeling of being unable to cope) There is clearly no doubt that she loves her son. But it can't carry on as it is. Not a nice situation for you to be in, but not for the poor little boy either.
I hope you can help the family get the help they need. xx

[jaykay79]

omg do you really think i should report her?! i like koalas idea of sending him and his things home sparkling clean (and have in fact been considering doing this for a while). another thing i forgot to mention, is that he has recurrent infected excema on his body, now i know anyone can get this but can it be exasperated by the whole unclean thing? x

[supermumy]

I would of just washed out the lunch box and bottle or maybe when 1st noticed said to mum oh I think he may need new bottle etc
Maybe she thinks you are using them as she is sending them in and as you haven't said anything it's acceptable x

[Ali56]

omg do you really think i should report her?! i like koalas idea of sending him and his things home sparkling clean (and have in fact been considering doing this for a while). another thing i forgot to mention, is that he has recurrent infected excema on his body, now i know anyone can get this but can it be exasperated by the whole unclean thing? x

It def can be made worse by being unclean. If you feel uncomfortable going straight to SS then definately speak to your dev officer urgently, who can advise you properly and support you to do what you need to do. You must log your concerns-it is a legal requirement to do so, and act on them if required. There isn't anyone else to be a childs voice if their carers won't. Take care and be brave xx

[Koala]

omg do you really think i should report her?! i like koalas idea of sending him and his things home sparkling clean (and have in fact been considering doing this for a while). another thing i forgot to mention, is that he has recurrent infected excema on his body, now i know anyone can get this but can it be exasperated by the whole unclean thing? x

I think you should not report her for now, If you did it could mean a lot of unintentional upset for everyone. It is not a crime to smell or be dirty unless you think this is HARMING the child or is it just affecting you (not that this is not a problem) because you have higher hygiene standards which is commendable.

Could you just put your arm around mum and say - look love I have washed the lunch box and bottle because is was dirty judge her reaction you may be able to take it further and address her dirty child! - ask - is everything alright at home? are you ok? is there anything I can help with?

You may open a can of worms! literally but it would make me feel better knowing that I have tried as a friend to help before calling in the big guns. :thumbsup:

[hectors house]

I would start off with the lunch box and bottle as either of those things could actually make him seriously ill - I would say to her that you couldn't give him his milk in the bottle that she sent as it was filthy - ask her if she forgot to switch on the steam steriliser or however she sterilises his bottles and to check all the other ones (although I bet she doesn't use any kind of steriliser). Also why is a 2.5 year old child still having an afternoon bottle of milk - it is still normal to have a bed time bottle but not an afternoon one?

How long have you looked after this child? I too looked after a little boy who was emotionally abused and neglected but back 25+ years ago the only abuse they taught us about was sexual and physical. My little one was never hungry but was always grubby, there was so much dog hair on his velco shoes that they wouldn't fasten and he wore same socks all week, his mother referred to him as "it" - eg "how has it been today" - "sorry i'm late, it was slow eating his breakfast". You need to document it and tell her that you have to document it - it may make her realise that her slovenly ways are not acceptable.

If you think she has mental health issues like Post Natal Depression, then maybe suggest that she seeks advice from Health visitor or doctor - some mothers just aren't maternal - the little one that I looked after wasn't wanted but she did get better as a mother when he was older and more able to look after himself. Although she refused to give up her dogs and horses although both she and child were often admitted to hospital due to their asthma!

[dawn100]

I would log the concerns and speak to mum and see what her reaction is and if this has any impact on the cleanliness of the child, from there you need to decide if you're going to contact ss or give her time to take on board your concerns, but if you think this is harming the child you must report to ss. It's hard for any of us to know exactly how bad this is only you are there witnessing it, people do have different hygiene standards eg i wouldn't let my kids out of the house in dirty clothes but my friends theory is that they're going to get dirty anyway so why worry about the clothes being spotless, but its when its harmful to the child you must act

[jaykay79]

yes, telling her i couldn't use the bottle she sent as it was unclean may be a good way to kick off this chat (which by the way i am DREADING!!) and i've looked after him since he was 5 months old and he's never been very clean at all but it seems to be worse in recent times. he has been eating the same bloomin soup every day, day in day out for dinner since he came here (not sure why i've just thought of that) carrot and potato soup blended smooth every day for 2 years, is that normal?! well the pots she puts it in leak into his lunch box (which is a material one) and so hence the mould. i have no idea why he still drinks milk from a baby bottle, she tells me he wakes in the night for his "bock bock" also. this is mum's first child, maybe she literally hasn't a clue?! i don't think she has mental health issues, that i could detect anyway x

[Koala]

yes, telling her i couldn't use the bottle she sent as it was unclean may be a good way to kick off this chat (which by the way i am DREADING!!) and i've looked after him since he was 5 months old and he's never been very clean at all but it seems to be worse in recent times. he has been eating the same bloomin soup every day, day in day out for dinner since he came here (not sure why i've just thought of that) carrot and potato soup blended smooth every day for 2 years, is that normal?! well the pots she puts it in leak into his lunch box (which is a material one) and so hence the mould. i have no idea why he still drinks milk from a baby bottle, she tells me he wakes in the night for his "bock bock" also. this is mum's first child, maybe she literally hasn't a clue?! i don't think she has mental health issues, that i could detect anyway x

No, this is not normal, please tell me he eats other things!

[jaykay79]

other things for dinner? no always the same soup every day, but that's not all he gets a yoghurt and a slice of cake also, but that's it x

[jaykay79]

other things for dinner? no always the same soup every day, but that's not all he gets a yoghurt and a slice of cake also, but that's it x

oh and she says she wants me to give him fruit if she gives me a bit extra each week (which she very rarely does, £2 every 3 months or so usually when at first she said £2 a week)

[Ali56]

Aw, jaykay. Please call your cmdo. Just for some advice about how best to help them. I'm not saying she's being deliberately neglectful at all, just that it really sounds like she needs some support. No family who are coping well give their toddler the same food day in, day out. Amongst all the other stuff you've said. You already added from your original post that its gots worse recently and that he has the same pureed soup every day. When you have the chat about the bottle and the lunchbox, tell her the pot leaks and ask if she has a different one. Hand the lunch box and bottle back all lovely and clean ( I'd wash it everyday before I gave it back anyway) and see if it stays that way. There maybe other ways you can support, but just washing tose things is a help, at least to keep the bacteria levels down for the little man xx

[Koala]

Now I think there are a few things here that are a little concerning individually but could be rectified if they were individual, but I think you may need further support and your mum may too. But don't jump in both feet first with social services.
Have you done the 2 yr check on this child? and is he making all his targets?
The mucky kid individually would not concern me much (there are some mucky but happy/healthy families out there) - but I would have to clean him and his lunch box and bottle.
The food would concern me as I do not feel it is substantial - do you feel mum is having difficulty financially or educationally providing food? Carrott and potato soup is good and healthy particularly if home made but not as a main substantial meal for a toddler everyday, yogurt good, cake is nice.

The two issues together are warning signs.
Could you use the 2 year check to bring in outside agencies? with mums agreement maybe, health visitor, your Development officer or local childrens centre.
There could be more here than meets the eye and possibly too much for you to deal with, but only you can make that call.

What else can you tell us?

[hectors house]

Sounds as if she is trying to keep him as a baby - pureed soup and bottle of milk, "Bock, bock" and still in nappies. I would do as Koala suggests and use his 2 year development check as a way to suggest that he needs to be allowed to grow up and be a little more independent.

I used to have a mother who sent baby with a box of baby food (one you mix with water) and child ate same meal until box was empty (about a week), I thought that was abuse, but to eat the same meal for 2 years is definitely abuse - also if her hygience practice is so bad, how can you be sure that she doesn't just batch cook it once a week/fortnight or even a month and just dish it up out of the fridge each day for him! (is it even kept in the fridge)?

Would suggest that even a tin of beans and sausages once in a while would make a nice change, or if she varied the recipe for soup and didn't puree it - pureed foods means that child isn't learning to chew, strengthen jaw muscles that help child change mouth shape to pronounce words correctly.

[singingcactus]

Just tell mum the bottle and bag are mouldy and she needs to sort it tonight. It's really easy to do. You just have to say the words.
I've done it before when dad wasn't washing his child's sippy cup properly. He hadn't realised, thought it was just stained. From then on it came clean.

Earwax, dirty fingers, smelly when you remove a wet nappy, not exactly neglect, abuse or whatever else is being said, just wipe him clean!. Not washing hair cause he doesn't like it, not at all a big deal.

The only thing of any concern is the mould, and if mum is thinking it is stains, or just not even noticing it, then telling her will fix that.

If you're bothered by the little one having the same meal every day (which seems unlikel that you are cos you've only just realised) then tell her to try some new meals.

Parents are humans too. You are allowed to chat with them, this is why relationships with parents are so important, so that the little things don't all build up and skew the big picture.

Sorry if I sound cranky, but I really get annoyed whenever dirty fingernails and ears are classed as abuse and neglect on this forum.

[jaykay79]

koala, where i live there is no 2 year check (that i have to do) and no eyfs and all that paperwork etc that you all have to do in the uk, although we do have governing bodies within the government i can speak to if necessary. i don't think there's anything else to tell you with regard to this situation, what i've said is pretty much it i think. singing cactus, i haven't only just noticed he's been eating the same meal for the last 2 years! i meant i'd only just thought of it when talking about his situation on this thread, and i wasn't saying dirty fingernails/earwax/smelly body etc was neglect, i was just trying to paint an overall picture of the situation. so since i last posted, the lunchbox has been bleached and then sent through the washing machine, all his bottles/cups etc have been washed. she will no doubt notice when she takes his lunchbox out of his bag that is is soaking wet! but clean! you never know, that alone might shame her into keeping it clean! i am going to call the gov department tomorrow and ask them to they have any healthy lunchbox type leaflets i can have to hand out to all. my bathroom is in the middle of being replaced but when i have a bath again (sooooon please god, nightmare without it lol) i am going to launch him through the bath for a thorough wash and scrub and send him home smelling as sweet as a baby. if these hints are not enough then i am going to say something to her, no other choice then really, thanks for all your advice ladies x

[Koala]

Good for you JayKay. I am sure it will make a difference to mum, I understand how hard it can be to broach subjects with parents particularly when it is critisizing how they are bringing up their children - so good for you for plucking up the courage in the first place to ask all us' know it alls' what we think and having to deal with all our suggestions, some quite harsh.

The healthy lunch box ideas leaflet sounds like a good idea. And giving the kid a good wash wouldn't go a miss either, sometimes a little help for some folk is worth a lot of pitty and critisism! Just be aware of safeguarding issues and that you have permission to bath children if "they get dirty" :D not sure how that falls in your region, I know I have written permission in my contracts.

I hope it all works out for you and mummy gets the hint sometimes we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, sometimes simple things like not been able to afford to turn the hot water on for washing clothes or bathing or the heating on to warm us after a bath can be the reason for being dirty to our personal standards. Don't let mum use you as a mug though but at the end of the day you are helping the lo and this is what is important but at any time if things get too much or you are concerned you must must seek help and support to safeguard yourself.

Take care :thumbsup:

[supermumy]

Sorry if this comes across offish not meant to offend

But you have had this child since 5months old an now over 2 and you have never said to mum about changing soup everyday? Or that his pack lunch or bottle was bootle was dirty after all this time?
Could you not supply a piece of fruit a day and put the fee in your books

I agree with above that I wouldn't say dirty ears or maybe nappy smelling as neglect but maybe she has just become lazy in a routine etc

As for the comment your waiting for you bathroom to be fixed than you will put the child in the bath for a good scrub ( as a parent I wouldn't be about this! ) surely a chat with mum is more needed ESP after all the years you have had the child.

:)

[chriss]

From what you say, it is neglect. Mum is failing to properly care for her child and showing inadequate levels of hygeine. You say he has mucky nails, I would be washing them before meals, and use a nail brush to properly clean them. Its not hygenic to eat with hands like that. I would be washing the lunch box and bottle too. You need to say to mum, hope you dont mind, but I washed out his lunch box and washed his hands n nails because they were dirty, and you didnt want him to be ill. Sounds like you have to be quite blunt. All the other stuff would concern me too, one thing on its own is not too much of a worry, but theres quite a list here.

Talk to your advisor, you cannot leave it, you are the childs voice, and would be neglecting your duty if you stand by and do nothing. You said the house is ok, when did you last visit, and am sure you didnt look in every room, so who knows how this child is living.

And just one thing, If it were me, I would not be putting this child in the bath, as much as I wanted to. Its a short term solution to an ongoing problem. Please seek further advice.

And let us know what advice you get, as its also a learning opportunity, if, God forbid, we are in a similar situation.

[mrs owl]

omg do you really think i should report her?! i like koalas idea of sending him and his things home sparkling clean (and have in fact been considering doing this for a while). another thing i forgot to mention, is that he has recurrent infected excema on his body, now i know anyone can get this but can it be exasperated by the whole unclean thing? x

What a terrible situation for you to be in! Big hug! Well I must admit I also thought koalas idea a good one too! That is probably my first reaction. I have had children arriving in summer dresses in the winter and wearing their breakfast! I have changed their clothes and mentioned it light heatedly to mum at home time. The summer dress incident was because the little minder was allowed to chose what to wear in the morning!

However what you are experiencing is a catalogue of disasters and you need to log it and talk to the childminder support worker if you don't want to go straight to social services. The health issues here need to be addressed urgently hun. Hope you get this sorted x

[little chickee]

I too would have washed the lunch bag and bottle and casually mentioned it to mum.

I would not be reporting to anyone just yet. I think you need to be blunt, hard as that may be, and tell mum that child is dirty etc.
Give her the chance to sort it out. Help her, support her but get it sorted out.

And regarding the soup every day, ok same soup every day for 2 years is odd but my 10yo son has a home dinner every school day and will 3 or 4 days out of 5 ask for lentil and bacon soup, which i have to puree cos he doecn't like lumpy soup. He of course eats plenty of normal lumpy foods, just doesnt like chunky soup. As long as you think he might be getting some variety for breakfast and tea i don't see this as a problem although i suspect that this may not be the case.

Parents are clearly not doing a 100% good job and however much they love their son this is neglect - unintentional but still neglect.

[AdeleMarie88]

omg do you really think i should report her?! i like koalas idea of sending him and his things home sparkling clean (and have in fact been considering doing this for a while). another thing i forgot to mention, is that he has recurrent infected excema on his body, now i know anyone can get this but can it be exasperated by the whole unclean thing? x

Of course it is!! I would talk to her, give her a list of things to do, clean lunchbox, have a bath, clean bottle, so on and so on, and see how she gets on with this. If there is no change, then report her!

[emma04]

I cared for a child with absolutely everything that you mentioned!
Filthy dummy, stained clothes, baby bag full of grime - every time I pulled a nappy out lots of other vile things followed it!!!
Child was smelly and hair was dirty.
Food was nuggets and sauce, sauce and nuggets

I knew mum and dad, both were fantastic people and loved child immensely, but were very lazy, common sense was non existent and level of forethought was a big fat zero!!!

This is what I did!

Bought new dummies for my house!
Gathered spare clothes from friends and my own dd! Placed child in spares whilst I laundered her own TWICE - mum got the hint (or was it granny!!)
Handed mum an empty baby bag, telling her that I would provide my own and request nappies when necessary! Problem solved
Bathed and powdered child ONCE or twice
Washed child's hair and placed it in bunches (I bought the bobbles!) EVERY DAY - until mum began doing it herself!
Wrote in diary foods child ate - very healthy, veg, meat and fruit etc! - diet never changed and hasn't to this day (lo now 6!) but she has school lunches (phew!!)

Mum eventually got the hang of everything when child's gums began bleeding! Mum asked if I could take her to the doctors, I instigated the appointment as I knew what it was. I took her, doctor was astounded, diagnosed gum disease through poor dental hygiene! Unbeknown to me, doctor flagged it and mum was summoned by the health visitor!

Moral of the story....make your own subtle effort to improve things, see if mum takes heed. If not SPELL it out!
If serious neglect is possible, speak with DO or SS to get advice.
Reporting loving parents that are just plain lazy is not appropriate, guiding them is a better response.

Ps. If mum had moaned about anything that I did, my actions would've been spelt out LOUD AND CLEAR! I'm here for the child first! Parent second!

[playdayz]

koala, where i live there is no 2 year check (that i have to do) and no eyfs and all that paperwork etc that you all have to do in the uk, although we do have governing bodies within the government i can speak to if necessary. i don't think there's anything else to tell you with regard to this situation, what i've said is pretty much it i think. singing cactus, i haven't only just noticed he's been eating the same meal for the last 2 years! i meant i'd only just thought of it when talking about his situation on this thread, and i wasn't saying dirty fingernails/earwax/smelly body etc was neglect, i was just trying to paint an overall picture of the situation. so since i last posted, the lunchbox has been bleached and then sent through the washing machine, all his bottles/cups etc have been washed. she will no doubt notice when she takes his lunchbox out of his bag that is is soaking wet! but clean! you never know, that alone might shame her into keeping it clean! i am going to call the gov department tomorrow and ask them to they have any healthy lunchbox type leaflets i can have to hand out to all. my bathroom is in the middle of being replaced but when i have a bath again (sooooon please god, nightmare without it lol) i am going to launch him through the bath for a thorough wash and scrub and send him home smelling as sweet as a baby. if these hints are not enough then i am going to say something to her, no other choice then really, thanks for all your advice ladies x

I looked after a child who was coming with mouldy lunch box and very dirty uniform which she was sleeping in with that nights dinner down the front :( I called social care as mum took no notice of any of my comments or suggestions I made, I said to social care I just wanted to wash everything and they told me we should never do that as we could be hiding possible abuse, an when child was going to school clean if I cleaned her an the lunch box school would pick up on anything as I would had hidden it :( I understand that u want the child to be clean an safe but if u find his care starts to slip at home again please don't clean anthing ! I would just give them the full lunch box back and tell them you could feed him what they sent due to condition of the lunch box so you made him lunch, an ask them to clean it or buy a new one as you will not accept it in that condition. Hope things do change for the child good luck :)

[Lottie]

Sounds like neglect to me. Parents can be the most loving in the world and still be neglectful. Hope you get this sorted out quickly.

[jaykay79]

well, the lunchbox went home blatantly dripping wet in it's carrier bag after i'd washed it and came back dry as a bone (mum obviously noticed therefore and popped it on radiator) so she knows full well it was washed by me. we will see now if she keeps it up or whether the mould returns. baby bottles i had so beautifully cleaned are now filthy again so i am continuing to not use them and provide him with a beaker of mine as besides anything, he is too old for a baby bottle, it'll make his teeth go all weird. he in himself is still as dirty as before and i have no idea whether or not i should bathe him based on various mixed advice (no bath still here until my plumber pulls his finger out) x

[little chickee]

Have you told parent that you are not using the bottles ? If not i think you should say so. Just not using them is skirting round the issue when in fact it needs dealt with. Its all very well that he is being look after properly at yours , using a clean cup etc but the problem at home NEEDS to be addressed.

[AdeleMarie88]

It's about time you are very blunt I think.

You need to tell mom you are not using the bottles, 1. because they are filthy, and 2. because he is too old for bottles now anyway.

I would then tell her that children need bathing every day. This is to prevent illness, but also odours. She won't want to hear it, but it's better coming from you , than Social Services. I would also say that his lunchbox needs to be emptied, cleaned, and dried everyday. But very stern, and follow up with a written list.

If she does not fullfill the list after a couple of days I would call Social Services, you cannot tiptoe around this anymore, it is just prolonging the little boys misery!

Please stay firm, we are all behind you x

[vals]

Part of our training is about knowing what to do if we suspect any form of neglect. We are not meant to try and resolve these issues ourselves, we are meant to pass it onto the experts. If a parent is struggling, they will help them and support them. There could be things that you don't know about the family, but social services will. If something happens and it is found that you didn't report it, you may get into trouble yourself.

[migimoo]

Not much to add that hasn't been said-I personally wouldn't call SS about this as I have experience of this-LO with dirty/torn/undersized clothes,same lunch every day for 2 yrs in a dirty lunch bag,unbrushed hair every day and she smelled.

As others have done I bathed her when the smell put me off cuddling her and washed clothes hoping mum would be embarrassed....no such luck,she just said "oh lovely-thanks!"-this was a very bright,confident and secure child who was very loved but mum was just a bit lazy and not very clean at home (a friend of a friend so I had background info if u like,no depression,lots of support at home)

It used to really upset me but I think I just came to accept that not everyone has the same level of hygiene as myself.

I would tell mum about the bottles and maybe offer to provide food for a small charge?

[supermumy]

If bottles are now coming back dirty I would say nx time oh I used a beaker today as I see you didn't have time to wash mindee bottles an they was sticky and see what they say?

As for dirty child I do think there is no beating around the bush about this maybe mention you can start to smell the wee of nappy etc
As I feel if you do start to wash te child it may be solving the problem at yours but not at home and on the whole x

[Mrs Pootle]

Have you been able to talk to mum yet about all these issues? I know it must be very daunting for you to bring up the subject of cleanliness, but it really needs doing. Good luck with mum.