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Binney
23-09-2013, 01:21 PM
Hi everyone,

Sorry it's a bit long but please read and advise if I can. I feel quite upset by this situation and not sure what to do...

I have a baby (will be turning one next week) who comes to me two afternoons a week. He has trouble sleeping. Before I used to only put him down for a nap if he showed signs of wanting one which was rare or he would nap for half hour when we went for a walk in a buggy. However, his mother insists that even though happy in my setting, by the time he gets home he is grouchy and miserable because he is tired. She is very keen for him to nap at a routine time. This is fairly new to me as my son and other minded child tend to sleep when they are tired and although they have carved out a rough routine, it's flexible and I read their cues.

The problem isn't really that she wants him to sleep at a certain time. The problem is that he can not get himself to sleep, nor can he sleep through the smallest noise. Plus he is very easily distracted. He won't fall asleep in my arms as he gets distracted. I have to rock him back and forward in his buggy for anywhere between 10 minutes to an hour to get him to sleep and then if it is silent he will sleep for half an hour to an hour. I can't have the buggy in the living area because he is too distracted by my son playing. I can't take the buggy upstairs because a. I'm pregnant and b. I can't leave my son alone on a different floor for so long. So, I put him to sleep in the hallway, but he is still woken if my son makes any noise or like today a leaflet came through the letterbox!

Today has been the last straw as if I don't rock him (which I can not always do) he'll cry and cry and cry. Today, I'd only stopped rocking him for a couple of minutes to tend to something and he cried so violently that he threw up everywhere. In a lying down position too, you can imagine how dangerous this is and how upsetting it was for me.

I'm not sure what to do. I can't force him to go to sleep and if he needs silence and endless rocking to go and to stay asleep then I simply can not provide that, especially after next week when he turns one and will be coming more often and at the same time I have another minded baby (10 months) to care for. If it were just me and him, there would be no problem. But it's not.

Any advice? I want to stick to his mothers routine - she's a lovely woman and I want to adhere to her wants for her child, but this poor little boy just has so much difficulty and before we started enforcing this routine would be so happy and smiling during his whole time here :-( What can I do??

scottishlass
23-09-2013, 01:30 PM
Is a really tricky one as is impossible to make a little one sleep - I have 1 who comes twice a week and mum likes him to have a 2 hour sleep - sometimes he does no problems other times I have no chance!! I usually take him a big long walk she if he still doesn't go to sleep then I know its not going to happen!! Another little one I have doesn't always sleep either but her mum is happy for me to go by what lo wants xx

cathtee
23-09-2013, 01:36 PM
It can be very hard to get a little one in a routine when they only come a couple of times a week. Do you know what time he gets up
or if he naps in the morning, and what he does on a afternoon you don't have him.
all of this could factor in him not wanting to nap until later in the day wjile he is with you.

I don't really know what to suggest,
I have always popped them in a buggy dummy if have one and left them quietly to drop off, I'm in the same room so if they sit up I gently
lay them back down without saying anything after a couple of times they drop off and it becomes routine to them.

Have a chat to mom about his routine when away with you and see if you can get to the bottom of his pattern.

jackie 7
23-09-2013, 01:39 PM
I have been struggling with a bad sleeper so you have my sympathy. I am sure I read wrong but you have the impression you had 2 under 1 I hope not on the same day. I have a routine and try to keep to it. Morning and after lunch rests. Can the mum make sure the morning rest is not too early of too long. That should help.

Mouse
23-09-2013, 02:23 PM
It is very hard to get children to sleep if they are used to a completely silent room at home.

I would suggest trying to get him to sleep with some noise in the background. The washing machine is good for this! If you can, put the buggy in the kitchen, near the washing machine & put a wash on. Or try some music - no singing, just quiet, peaceful music. If you can rock him off to sleep with these background noises, you'll start to find that noise doesn't bother him.

I have had mindees who are used to sleeping in a quiet house, then don't want to sleep here for fear of missing out on something! The washing machine works so well. After a while they'll sleep through anything. I have one now who hates going to sleep, but I put him i a buggy, set the machine going & he's off within minutes, even sleeping through the very loud spin! He does wake up once the wash has finished, so if I want him to have a long sleep I set it on the longest cycle!

ziggy
23-09-2013, 02:56 PM
I remember having 2 under a year old a while ago. Neither really slept during the day but then got grumpy late afternoon. So I put then in travel cots in seperate rooms (not sure if that is an option for you) then left cd playing quietly. It seemed to work, stopped other noises waking them.

I have baby now who loves sleeping outside in buggy, is that an option? Although not sure what i will do when winter comes

Goatgirl
23-09-2013, 03:19 PM
HI :),
I try to make sure children get lots of fresh air and exercise early in the day so that they sleep well after lunch here - could mum do something energetic and outdoorsy with him on the mornings of the days he comes to you? ....or is there time whilst he's with you for you to do that?

Then I would maybe try mouse's idea of putting lo near a washing machine to drop off, or play music near the buggy. I hang a musical crab on the buggy when mine go down. It definitely helps.

However, I would have a time limit on this: both how many days I would be trying it (2 weeks maybe?)and how long I would be doing the rocking for.... If he does start to drop off with noise +rocking, I'd then cut down rocking time but leave in the same noise environment.

Obviously other children need attention too :rolleyes:.... and it seems silly for you to be going through such stress to get lo to sleep when he's happy staying awake.

If it doesn't improve I would just say say to mum it is taking too much time away from other children and making little one very upset so you will try him in the buggy for 10/15 minutes max and if he doesn't go off have to assume he's not tired enough and so get him up again. Its too disruptive for her to reasonably expect you to persevere if he clearly isn't wanting to sleep at that time. Stand up for yourself :thumbsup:

If he's so grumpy when he gets home Mum will have to either let him nap then or help him keep going till bedtime.

hectors house
23-09-2013, 03:49 PM
I just put mine upstairs in separate rooms in travel cot, with the radio on classic fm - I have a monitor for each room, one normal one and just bought a video monitor for the younger baby room. I tell the parents that I just put them in the cot, put on the radio, say night night and walk out of the room - I may have other children downstairs or others to put to bed, I haven't got time to sing or rock to sleep or read 50 bedtime stories.

My last little one started this time last year and his mum put on his "all about me" form that he fought sleep as much as he could, and wouldn't cry himself to sleep he would just get crosser and crosser. You need to establish a routine before they can pull themselves up to standing in the cot as they won't sleep standing up, otherwise you will have to put to sleep in a buggy. Have you got your bedrooms registered for use - if they are big enough to put up a travel cot each day, it may be worth getting them added to your registration.

VeggieSausage
23-09-2013, 04:07 PM
the most ideal thing would be if mum starts to put lo down with no fuss at nap time so they learn to just nod off.....I wish everyone would do this, its so much simpler!!

Binney
23-09-2013, 06:11 PM
Thank you everyone for your helpful and supportive replies!

I think I will start with music/washing machine suggestion and setting a time limit is a great idea too.

Mum has said she will work on his sleep at home but she hasn't mentioned how it is going or what she is doing (e.g. if she's putting him down awake, etc). But I asked her to pick an evening in the next week for us to sit down and go through his summative assessment so I will spend a good deal of time talking about his sleep. I also haven't discussed his routine for a while so it would be useful to go over that too as some of you suggested.

I like the idea of getting him out in the mornings and will suggest it to mum and dad but I don't think it will be possible as his mum goes to work and leaves him with his dad who works from home until mid-day which is when he comes to me. The dad is always late dropping him off (nearly an hour today) because he is always so busy.

I do have room upstairs. I have a dedicated sleep room for minded children but he just screams and screams and I'm worried I'll do him some sort of psychological damage, or he'll throw up again! But I haven't tried him with music on so perhaps that will make a difference.

I always held and rocked/nursed my son to sleep until he outgrew the need (he's two now) but this was before I was a CM so had the time - it was just us two. I want to give my childminded kids the same benefits but I'm finding it impossible because, simply, there are more needs to meet.

I may also ask her if i can try him later as when he arrives it is his nap time and when he's only just got here, he gets all excited and wants to play, not go straight to sleep.

Thank you again everyone! Wish me luck :-/

Goatgirl
23-09-2013, 06:30 PM
I wouldn't ask Mum if you can try later... you want to work in partnership with them obviously, but the childrens' needs come first, not the parents' wants.
I'd just explain that you're thinking about it because of the (very sensible!) reasons why ;). Maybe Dad could make an extra effort to get to you on time so that lo can have his excited time, followed by a wind down time and then nap....?

Good luck, hope the meeting goes well :) :thumbsup: