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Dawnbhh1982
12-09-2013, 10:23 AM
Hi,

I look after three 2 year olds. There birthdays are all within 5 days of each other. 2 of them (one being my nephew) I've had since they were 5 months old. The last one I've only had since February when she was 21 months old.

They were all 2 in May.

The 2 I already had are talking in sentences, counting, feeding themselves, can tell you some shapes, colours, letters, can clear up after themselves and follow general instructions such as pick up the ball, clear up the toys, get me your shoes etc.

The last one has only started feeding herself in the last 2 months, doesn't really talk apart form about 5 words - mainly tv characters and doesn't interact at all with either of us or the other children.

Her parents told me when I took her on that she was really fun to play with but she doesn't play with anyone. I've built up duplo towns, set out kitchen stuff done everything and she just walks away. She'll bring you a book and then walk away. if the other 2 try and play with her she just walks away. I'm finding it really hard to teach her anything or do any observations on her as she doesn't sit down with you to do anything. When you ask her to do anything she stares at you blankly like she's looking through you, she will generally avoid all eye contact and even when she does have a tantrum its a silent one where she will throw herself on the floor. If you tell her off or even slightly raise your voice at her she covers her eyes. she has to have her juice cup in her hand constantly and when she doesn't have it she comes and will just say 'juice' until you go and get it for her.
Her mum is in labour as we speak and has kept her coming to me while she's on maternity leave and will continue to as she thinks its good for her but has also commented about her 3 year old nephew not being as advanced as her so I don't think they realise anything isn't right.
She will get all of the toys out and just sit amongst it all or put everything in the ball pit and just lay there. She will often just sit and stare into space or lay on the floor with the others playing around her. She can dress and undress herself but that's all she can really do. when shes eating she puts so much in her mouth that she can't close it so you have to give her the fork with food on it one at a time so she doesn't choke and make herself sick.

I'm not sure what I think is the problem but others that have been around her - other childminders and also my best friend who is a reception teacher have said something not right. I have been asked a couple of times when I'm out with her if she's got downs. She has a slight lisp but other than that nothing obviously wrong with her.

I'm trying to do her 2 year check at the moment but its so hard when you cant get her to focus on anything.

The other 2 are quite advanced and are marking off points in the 30-50 months bracket at the moment so wasn't sure at first if I was just used to them so she just seemed a lot slower but it is worrying me as I don't want it to be left too late if she does need help.

Has anyone had experience of this or have any ideas of what do do? As I'm writing this my mum (assistant) is on the floor surrounded by duplo with the other 2 and she is walking around in circles in the adjoining room.

Thanks in advance.

JCrakers
12-09-2013, 11:18 AM
This job is so hard isn't it when you suspect something isn't quite right but also understanding that children do develop so differently.
Personally I would do the 2yr check which will show where she is in development. Like you say, she can dress herself which is a good start and try to concentrate on what she can do rather than what she can't. Do you think her hearing is ok? If you think about it, if you couldn't hear then you would probably not interact as well? Someone who cant hear would probably go off into a world of their own? Have you discounted hearing?

You may find that she is an age range below in some/all areas or even two age ranges below? I would then present this to parents. It could be that she is a late developer or there could be something underlying. Then the HV can see where she is and go from there.

Dawnbhh1982
12-09-2013, 12:20 PM
This job is so hard isn't it when you suspect something isn't quite right but also understanding that children do develop so differently.
Personally I would do the 2yr check which will show where she is in development. Like you say, she can dress herself which is a good start and try to concentrate on what she can do rather than what she can't. Do you think her hearing is ok? If you think about it, if you couldn't hear then you would probably not interact as well? Someone who cant hear would probably go off into a world of their own? Have you discounted hearing?

You may find that she is an age range below in some/all areas or even two age ranges below? I would then present this to parents. It could be that she is a late developer or there could be something underlying. Then the HV can see where she is and go from there.



Thanks. I think her hearing is ok. It does seem to be more when she's asked to do something. I'll try her out once she's woken up. I think its more of a selective thing or that she doesn't understand. Sometimes you have to put her hand on something and say 'pick it up' for her to get it and even then she'll drop it again or just stand holding it.

She's daddies little princess in a family full of boys - siblings and cousins so think she may just never have had to do anything for herself such as tidy up or even talk much because its all done for her.

I just worry that its going to be missed and she'll go to school and be really far behind. Plus I'm pregnant myself and worry that while I'm on maternity she'll just be at home and anything I've done to progress her and things I have tried to put in place won'rt carry on as they've never mentioned that there even slightly concerned about anything.

Another thing is that she doesn't really like to chew food. Anything like pasta, raisins, yoghurt things like that that just need a soft chew she is fine with but anything more she keeps in her mouth and sucks it to death or wont eat. She wont eat any fruit or veg and will make herself sick if you try and put it in her. she just swallows things whole and then chokes it back up usually making herself sick so everything has to be cut into such tiny pieces.

I think development wise she is in the 8-20 months bracket for most things, some not even there.

xx

KatieFS
12-09-2013, 12:20 PM
This is one of the reasons behind the 2 year check. It's a great starting point to give some fact and rationale in what looks like a difficult conversation.
As crackers says do the check and sit with them show them the development matters framework so they can see for themselves and so they know its not just you making it up
It's going to be tough on the little one as new baby too...

Dawnbhh1982
12-09-2013, 12:35 PM
This is one of the reasons behind the 2 year check. It's a great starting point to give some fact and rationale in what looks like a difficult conversation.
As crackers says do the check and sit with them show them the development matters framework so they can see for themselves and so they know its not just you making it up
It's going to be tough on the little one as new baby too...



That's another thing, I don't want her to be left as aside as such at home because there concentrating o the baby. Not saying they neglect her or anything like that but with a new baby you do concentrate on that more at first and she's at such a critical age that I don't want it left. Mums not had a good pregnancy so haven't wanted to stress her out more which is why I've waited until now.

I've printed a copy of the Early years outcomes and I was thinking if I highlight where she is on that as well as going through the observations I've done it will physically show them where she is and they can take it away and show it to the HV if they choose to. I can't force them.

Her mum says how well the others talk etc when she's here but hasn't said anything to me about her.

If it is her hearing it could be an explanation for her speech as well as she is still very babbly and out of a minutes babble you can probably get about 4/5 words.

I only have her 2 days a week as well which makes it harder, although by the end of the 2 days I am exhausted mentally trying to do things with her. Its like looking after a newly walking baby all over again in a way where you need to constantly watch them. One of us has to be on her all the time. I had her on my own the other day, popped up to the toilet and she stripped naked and had thrown her nappy across the room with poo in it and was sitting bare bum - smearing poo on the carpet just smiling at me.

x

Simona
12-09-2013, 12:54 PM
You need to record ALL observations you make on this child...as you are describing them here...they are very revealing

Only then you will get a picture of what is going on and plan the next steps...
do not compare as a child is 'unique' in her development
Base your assessment on what you see, what she 'should' be doing...Is she ahead or slightly behind? ...what can you do?
Development Matters is your guide and should help you.

Dawnbhh1982
12-09-2013, 01:45 PM
You need to record ALL observations you make on this child...as you are describing them here...they are very revealing

Only then you will get a picture of what is going on and plan the next steps...
do not compare as a child is 'unique' in her development
Base your assessment on what you see, what she 'should' be doing...Is she ahead or slightly behind? ...what can you do?
Development Matters is your guide and should help you.



That's what I'm really trying not to do as far as comparing goes as I know that they all develop at their own rates but at the same time its hard not to when you see other children at toddler groups, family, friends and also the 2 she is mixing with here and seeing what they all can do that she cant. We are going through all the documentation now and then I'll arrange to meet with the parents. I really don't think dad is going to accept anything is wrong but all I can do is pass on my judgement and make it clear that they can get her checked by other people and I'll happily be proved wrong at at the same time I don't want to miss anything and her to get the help she needs. I used to work in a primary school and saw so many kids start reception with a lower ability than the others and parents hadn't been aware and wished they had known earlier. I just don't want that to be the case for her.

I'll state all that we have been doing and what I think they can try at home too so they don't feel like I'm not trying to help.

Do you think from what I've said that there is a problem?

x

Simona
12-09-2013, 06:08 PM
It is hard to give advice on such matter as you know your child best

What would I do?
Observe what she can do and areas that need needs support...
Look at 'emerging, expected and exceeding' outcomes..
check DM and also communicate with the parents 'regularly'
I would send observations and short assessment home and get parents to input in writing
Ask parents when their 2 year old check with the Health Visitor is due and make sure the parents take it with them

As a last resort I would contact someone in EY team and get support

Hope this helps.

VeggieSausage
12-09-2013, 07:42 PM
I have a child who was one of my first who I think has something that is not quite right and I worried about tackling it with parents like you. The 2 year check is a good tool to do this in an easier way I think. Focus on the positives and write them under each area of learning and put which age category they are in. If she is behind in any areas, say to mum that you have completed the 2 year check for them to take to the HV and you can say you have noticed a few areas where she is a little behind and that doesn't mean there is anything amiss as all children develop at different rates but it is your job to suggest they speak to a health visitor and write this on the 2 year check form, that you advise they talk further with a HV. In your notes, say that you have signposted them to a HV....good luck, sounds as though there is something not quite right, if she is their first child it is often difficult for them to tell ....

AdeleMarie88
12-09-2013, 07:58 PM
Why don't you ask mom or dad to keep a diary over this weekend, things she says, things she likes to do, and perhaps ask them to bring in some toys that she always plays with. Also video record your observations, you may pick up more that way! You could even ask parents to record some of her speech, if she is as talkative as they say, I am sure they won't mind!

With her mom having a baby it could be that that's causing her to behave like this, or it could be a seriously shy child, and as most parents do, they have perhaps exaggerated her abilities, and are hoping that you will point something out... I wouldn't automatically assume special needs, if it was downs especially that would have been picked up from birth. I would try to refrain from drawing comparisons to your other two, they sound exceptionally bright, so are not necessarily a good example of what the average two year old should be doing.

If after completing report, (which should be done in conjunction with parents, so if they have been exaggerating, it will be clear) and you are still none the wiser seek advice from your childminder coordinator x

AdeleMarie88
12-09-2013, 08:06 PM
In response to your question in earlier post, no from what you have said I don't think she has any special needs, it's hard without seeing her for myself but I think she just sound like a painfully shy two year old, that needs a little bit of love and encouragement! Just keep up your good work x

Dawnbhh1982
12-09-2013, 09:51 PM
Thanks ladies. I'll hopefully have put together all my paperwork to speak to her parents within the next few weeks and her parents will take it as I intend it to be.
X

lisbet
13-09-2013, 07:05 AM
I think it would be useful to see what she is like in her home environment - just to check that it is not shyness etc affecting her behaviour out of the home. So maybe ask her parents if they would video her playing or let you do a home visit. You could explain that you will be completing her 2yr old profile soon and want to make sure you have good all around information about her.

Also, if you do give them a copy of where she is re age bands, I personally would give them the full Development Matters version that has the columns for what adults can do and provide to support development. That way the parents will get some info on how they can support her development, rather than just a list showing that their child is not developing as quickly as some others do.

Hope it all goes ok x

Dawnbhh1982
13-09-2013, 08:40 AM
I have sky drive folders for them all where they can see pictures & their planned observations whenever they want. In there is also the development matters and any other documents is found that I think would be useful to them such as learning in play and things like that.
There observation folders are on a shelf in the playroom for them to access any time.
X

Supernanny86
13-09-2013, 09:06 AM
I look after twins and it sounds just like you are describing one of them!

I've raised concerns with mum ever since I had them last Xmas. It's only now she's going to mention stuff to the paediatrician (he's got asthma)

They're nearly 2, one is counting to 10, and talk, you can have a little convo, and a laugh with him, etc. the other does exactly what you're describing. He never plays with toys exactly, he's attached to sunglasses and a label at the mo. it was a medal for a while! He can say maybe 3-5 words clearly and only just started saying mama and dada.

His eye contact is very poor, he will not interact with other children, prefers to stay by me. Socially he's got worse over the summer. On top of this he rocks, spins, hand flaps and toe walks. He's a big lad and is floppy and very hard to dress. He also throws himself on the floor, and just lays there, he also just frowns like he can't fathom an expression. He freaks at loud noises, hoovers, blender, etc. if I raise my voice not necessarily at him, he will freeze on the spot and stare. He also stares into space a lot of the time, just like he's not here!

The mum asked me if he has autism the other day, I think she's read my obs, notes etc and probably googled it from what she said. I said in not qualified to diagnose anything but I said you should definitely raise the concerns with a professional that can help. I reassured her I can look after him but u need to know how to If that makes sense.

In most areas he's still in the 8-20m brackets (lower end) and the other is pushing in 30-50m in most.

She's always said about they develop at different rates, which of course is true but I did day there are realms of norm even though quite wide. The other twin is counting and his friend knows colours so eventually they'll know both. I think it's a concern as there's so many areas of development lacking instead of just one or two.

I don't have kids but obviously know it must be very hard to hear that your child has problems. But I've said on the other hand it's who he is and you need to push for help so we can help him as he can't fight for himself.

Sorry for the long reply, it's just the kiddy sounded so similar. He sees the paediatrician on Monday so lets hope he gets referred on!! :) :)

Dawnbhh1982
13-09-2013, 08:10 PM
They do sound similar your right.

I don't have any kids either yet (until January) but am an aunty to 8 so got some experience of whereabouts they should be.

I honestly believe that something isn't right.

I think mum will accept my concerns and try to help but that dad will be the problem & wont want to believe anything is wrong with his little princess.

Xx

Supernanny86
13-09-2013, 08:41 PM
They do sound similar your right.

I don't have any kids either yet (until January) but am an aunty to 8 so got some experience of whereabouts they should be.

I honestly believe that something isn't right.

I think mum will accept my concerns and try to help but that dad will be the problem & wont want to believe anything is wrong with his little princess.

Xx

I think I may have the same battle!! Keep is posted how it goes xx