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View Full Version : Have you ever been too cross to child mind?



jadavi
16-08-2013, 04:08 PM
I have!! Today for the first time in my two plus years of cming.
I left two mindees (7 and 5) outside in the garden with water pumps and buckets to play and clean the garden equipment. The hens were having their free range run around. (We talk a lot about being caring and nice to animals)
I came back to find they had terrorised the hens with squirting and hounded them back to their coop where they were huddled upstairs in the enclosed corner having their bedding soaked and really scared. They were squirting thru the flap.
I was horrified they could do something so mean.
I flipped a lid and rang mum who prescribed every punishment she could think of (I don't really go in for punishment)
I found I didn't want to be near them and was furious all afternoon.
Luckily my assistant could be with them and let me be with the others.
Have you ever had that?
Too angry literally to work with them?
What to do? !!

Maza
16-08-2013, 04:14 PM
Oh no! Poor hens. At least they had you to save them. That is really naughty of them and they should have known better. I am pleased the parents supported you. Do you think the children were sorry?

Zoomie
16-08-2013, 04:23 PM
I have one child that regularly winds me up big time. I try not to shout, but I know I end up doing so when this child is in a mood.

Only 6 more days and then they are gone :clapping:

doris127
16-08-2013, 04:26 PM
Yes - when a 4 year old walked over to my dog who was fast asleep on his bed and kicked him in the head! Thankfully he was picked up 5 minutes later and his mum was horrified. I was seething for hours! Just as well I have the most laid back dog in the world!
Hope your hens have recovered.

funemnx
16-08-2013, 04:26 PM
Oh poor hens and poor you! Yes I have been very angry on occasion - with the older children who should know better. I have got them all in the car a gone for a long drive until I felt better....

Daisy De
16-08-2013, 04:27 PM
I think my decision would depend on whether this was a one off incident and whether they were sorry. Certainly cruelty like that would not be acceptable in my house so I understand how angry you are.

Louise B
16-08-2013, 04:33 PM
I have a 6 year old who left my rabbit cage open on purpose, with 5 baby rabbits inside!! She was banned from going into the garden on her own. :angry:

supermumy
16-08-2013, 04:34 PM
As above would depend on if it happened before or if they just got out of control being left alone for while
I would of Deffo done a time out and loss of a good activity and maybe a topic of cruelty to Animals etc is needed
I wouldn't of called parent though but that's me

jadavi
16-08-2013, 04:36 PM
Thanks guys.

It was really hard to see if they were sorry. They kept trying to blame each other and then giggling when they looked at each other (I think kids do when they are nervous if they are being soundly told off) hard to tell if parents are really supporting me from the heart or just cos I am so crossp

jadavi
16-08-2013, 04:37 PM
The boy regularly kills insects and doesn't understand why he shouldn't.
He said to my assistant. 'Its not like i was punching someone'
she replied 'this is just as bad.'

AliceK
16-08-2013, 04:57 PM
I have it in one of my policies that deliberate cruelty towards any of my pets is grounds for instant termination of contract. In this instance I would be reminding parents of this policy so hopefully they would make it so clear to their children that there must never ever be any repeat or else the contract would be terminated immediately. I would be so so cross.
Hope your hens are okay now.
xxxx

jadavi
16-08-2013, 05:31 PM
I called parent cos i wanted to deal with it as she would so she could carry it on at home. Her way is naughty step no treats etc. I also called her for advice on how to speak to them as i have never been so upset with children before (including my grown up four)

jadavi
16-08-2013, 05:32 PM
I will add that to my policy. Good idea.
I told them they would not be returning if anything happened again like this.

jadavi
16-08-2013, 05:52 PM
I made the kids clean out the mucky wet straw in the coop. It grossed them out.
I just noticed their food was wet - which the hens won't eat . I texted the mum saying the hens had gone hungry all day because of what they did. She read it to them and they have been alone in their rooms to think about what they did.
My dd just told me the boy said 'well they're not my hens' she said well would you like it if I did that to your dog or cat
He answered 'well if you did I'll just come and do it back to you ....'
Where do you start?

charlottenash
16-08-2013, 05:56 PM
Do u think a 5 and a 7 year old know that chasing hens is cruel?

I clearly remember a time visiting my family on a farm and I chased the chickens with my cousins down to a road. I thought it was fun, never crossed my mind how evil it was! Must have been about 6 to remember it so clearly,

A little education on the matter now this has happened and then it shouldn't happen again.

CLL
16-08-2013, 06:10 PM
To them maybe it was just like chasing each other with water guns. I am sure they did not spend time plotting how to be cruel and sadistic to animals. It sounds like really thoughtless behaviour not malicious intent. I wouldn't have called parents at work and then text again later. I think once you have dealt with the situation that should be it and parents should not really be carrying on the punishment at home.

jackie 7
16-08-2013, 06:30 PM
I am not sure I can answer this. I would be do do cross. Children can be so cruel to each other. Very often we look at their ages not their emotional age. Some children are more aware than others. They knew not to hurt the chickens. I am sure that they will never ever be allowed outside alone. Oh yes cleaning out smelly straw was very good for them.

beachgirl29
16-08-2013, 06:32 PM
making them clean up was a good way to show there is a follow up to there actions and contacting mum. Don't know what else to say but i would of felt the same as you and be very angry indeed.

I recommend some wine for yourself now and hopefully the weekend off??

poor hens hope there ok? Maybe do a week of caring for animals theme! rspca trip out??

FussyElmo
16-08-2013, 06:38 PM
Mmm my little boy ran after my chickens with a water pistol - exactly like he does with the dogs who really enjoy it.

At no point did he think he was harming the chicken he genuinely thought he was playing with them.

I didn't punish him I just spoke to him about scaring them and hes not done it since.

I also think that the mum shouldn't be punishing him at home - the incident happened at yours you were cross your assistant spoke to them and you made them clean it up. But that's my opinion :)

Ripeberry
16-08-2013, 06:48 PM
Water guns, kids and animasl. It's always going to cause trouble. At least they are not doing what the kids do around here. Ten year olds with airguns taking pot shots at any bird they see. But then that's the countryside for you. Hopefully they won't do it again :thumbsup:

sarah707
16-08-2013, 07:05 PM
Aww hunny sending big hugs xx

jadavi
16-08-2013, 07:13 PM
I can totally understand the fun of chasing them round the yard.
It was the fact they were squirting cornered creatures in the coop and clearly frightening them and enjoying their power.
Yes I do think 5 and 7 year olds understand that it is a cruel thing to do.
I knew mum was at home which is why I called her. I wouldn't have rung her at work.
If my kids seriously misbehaved at a relatives or a child minders I would want to be informed at the time not later to discuss the best way to deal with it. I think the mum appreciated being in the loop and that I asked her how she wanted me to deal with it.
Yes the hens have recovered thanks.
Serious loss of humour and maybe perspective today.

nikki thomson
16-08-2013, 07:44 PM
I can totally understand the fun of chasing them round the yard.
It was the fact they were squirting cornered creatures in the coop and clearly frightening them and enjoying their power.
Yes I do think 5 and 7 year olds understand that it is a cruel thing to do.
I knew mum was at home which is why I called her. I wouldn't have rung her at work.
If my kids seriously misbehaved at a relatives or a child minders I would want to be informed at the time not later to discuss the best way to deal with it. I think the mum appreciated being in the loop and that I asked her how she wanted me to deal with it.
Yes the hens have recovered thanks.
Serious loss of humour and maybe perspective today.

I agree with you on this, 5 and 7 yr olds know the difference between right and wrong, and I have a 5 and 7 yr old who i know if I asked them is chasing chickens with water when there cornered in there coop and frightened good behaviour they would say no it isn't.
Children from a very young age know when there doing something wrong, I can't be doing with these people who go oh there only little they don't understand!!!!, complete rubbish yes they do and can be completely snide with it. X

SYLVIA
16-08-2013, 08:08 PM
I agree that they would know it was wrong. I had a little one last year who used to chase the pigeons in the park. I said no the first time I saw him do it and explained that it scared them and that it wasn't kind. The next time we went, he took one step then stopped. he said" I can't chase the pigeons?" to which i replied no and he never did it agin. He was only just 3 and he understood!

Samijanec
16-08-2013, 08:10 PM
As much as they do understand at that age, I think you have to remember they are still just children an young ones at that.

What they did was wrong and it's right to explain to them and to make them clean up their mess. Are they normally cruel or do you think the generally got carried away?

jadavi
16-08-2013, 09:25 PM
The older brother influenced and led on the younger sister. I'm afraid that yes he has a nasty secretive streak and lies a lot of the time. He only showed affected remorse when he wasn't allowed a treat for dessert that day. But the parents have to install respect for animals. It's very very hard for the cm to do it unsupported. Yes the parents support me with discipline if I ask them but they let him stamp on spiders and bury bees in the sand etc and I don't think they talk about it with him. I think care for animals has to be a deep rooted sort of empathy that can't be imposed on a child if they haven't been raised with it.
I can understand how he is that way when i analyse it but it shocked and appalled me to see him actually being so uncaring about inflicting pain on them.
What shocked me more was I couldn't bear to be in his company all afternoon! That was really why I posted.

charlottenash
16-08-2013, 09:32 PM
My son who is almost 5 would have no idea that chasing a hen with a water gun was bad. He would know chasing a bird was naughty though (we have a 'bird garden') so it's all in context.

You've done what you thought was right and that's what matters but any incident that happens here isn't punished at home, I ask parents to have a quick/stern word when their home and that's the end of it.

Hopefully this is the end of it and next week they will be extra attentive to the hens :)

karen m
16-08-2013, 10:51 PM
I agree what they did was wrong but how long we're they alone in the garden to do so much frighten hens till they went into coup , soaked food and straw surely if you have an assistant 1 of you should have seen what they were doing

KatieFS
17-08-2013, 06:58 AM
I have had one of my mindees hit my dog. I was so upset she could be so cruel.
I spoke to the child very firmly and told parent. Thankfully it didn't happen again. I like the idea if adding cruelty to pet in my policy.

jadavi
17-08-2013, 08:28 AM
Good point Karen. Thanks. This is why I like being on the forum as it keeps me on my toes and makes me analyse my behaviour. This is how it was:

It's school holidays so there were lots of children. One if us was giving a bottle to a heavy child (so couldn't walk around) the other was getting out paint supplies etc for four children round a table.
tiNormally these two on the garden can be trusted to play without constant supervision. My garden is completely safe. I had given them a fun activity which they had been asking for. I thought the worse that could happen in they would get wet which was ok.
. It never occurred to me they would do something like this. We have an ongoing policy of talking about animal welfare so I assumed they would never be cruel to the animals. They have been in the garden with the hens loose loads of times. (Half a year)
It's a bit like never being able to totally risk assess something 100 % properly. You take all known factors into account mentally. I didn't add wanton cruelty as a factor.(sorry to people who disagree but I think it was - albeit done in fun - I think this about fishing too!)
A bit like a child piling up so many toys so he can climb right over our seven foot high wall and fall on his head into the patio next door. ... You never expect a child to do that. We try to work within the realms of second guessing the unexpected but can't do it 100% and are not mind readers.
I trusted him to behave well or 'normally' and that was one of the reasons I was upset as I can't trust him now.
Maybe we can't ever trust our children?

jadavi
17-08-2013, 08:39 AM
Puts me in mind of a horrible incident in Spain which upset my family for days.
A teenager who had been with a diving lesson dragged in an octopus from the sea. (With his teachers)
A crowd gathered around as they flung it around - everybody laughing at the loud squelching noise it made. They carried on doing this until it died. My grown up children who saw this said everyone was laughing.
I was getting ice creams but if i had been there a very interesting situation would have developed . I would have confronted them. Grabbed it off the boy and put it in the sea. Trouble was the tide was out and there was half a mile of foot deep sea so someone else would have brought it back in .... Not to mention the argument with the boy and his teachers (all men) and the inevitable language barrier.
The most appalling thing was that everyone thought it was funny.
Definitely a cultural difference which we simply had to accept as we were in their country.

bunyip
17-08-2013, 09:05 AM
My answer to the original question is: yes, usually about 2 hours after the lo's arrive (so too late to close and too soon for whisky.) :laughing:

Every morning I start out as Mary Poppins :littleangel: and end up as Cruella de Ville. :angry:


:D

AliceK
17-08-2013, 09:09 AM
My answer to the original question is: yes, usually about 2 hours after the lo's arrive (so too late to close and too soon for whisky.) :laughing:

Every morning I start out as Mary Poppins :littleangel: and end up as Cruella de Ville. :angry:


:D

Love that :)

xx

hectors house
17-08-2013, 09:33 AM
It is easy to get complacent, yesterday the mindees had been painting after they finished and got down from table and went into lounge, I popped into kitchen (all quite open plan - sort of L shaped) to start cooking the pasta for lunch, I had left the paint palette on the table - in less than a minute I went back to clear the painting stuff off to table to lay it for lunch and found paint smeared all over the table and chair had been pulled out - I feared the worse and went to see if little one (18 months) had paint all over his hands as he was currently in lounge patting the tv! Luckily his hands were completely clean - he must have climbed up and used a brush to paint the table, put brush back and climbed back down - phew!

Hope your chickens are ok today - I have just tramatised my new hens, my hubby had built their run quite tall but then it has prop open flaps on top so I can open up to walk in upright - I just bought some wood chips as run was getting muddy and dragged the bag in, they got very upset and 2 flew out onto roof of the coop (I was terrified they were going to jump over fence into neighbours garden), one jumped back into run and I shut all the flaps, the other jumped into our garden where luckily I managed to catch her very easily. Lesson learnt - chickens can fly!

I have been so angry before that I just couldn't say anything to the mindee concerned as I knew I would go too far - I think my silence upset and frightened him more than if I had shouted.

jadavi
17-08-2013, 09:52 AM
Thanks.

AliceK think you answered the wrong thread?

jadavi
17-08-2013, 09:53 AM
Unless I'm missing something or being dense?

FussyElmo
17-08-2013, 09:57 AM
Unless I'm missing something or being dense?

No Alice was commenting on bunyips reply :-)

FussyElmo
17-08-2013, 09:59 AM
It is easy to get complacent, yesterday the mindees had been painting after they finished and got down from table and went into lounge, I popped into kitchen (all quite open plan - sort of L shaped) to start cooking the pasta for lunch, I had left the paint palette on the table - in less than a minute I went back to clear the painting stuff off to table to lay it for lunch and found paint smeared all over the table and chair had been pulled out - I feared the worse and went to see if little one (18 months) had paint all over his hands as he was currently in lounge patting the tv! Luckily his hands were completely clean - he must have climbed up and used a brush to paint the table, put brush back and climbed back down - phew!

Hope your chickens are ok today - I have just tramatised my new hens, my hubby had built their run quite tall but then it has prop open flaps on top so I can open up to walk in upright - I just bought some wood chips as run was getting muddy and dragged the bag in, they got very upset and 2 flew out onto roof of the coop (I was terrified they were going to jump over fence into neighbours garden), one jumped back into run and I shut all the flaps, the other jumped into our garden where luckily I managed to catch her very easily. Lesson learnt - chickens can fly!

I have been so angry before that I just couldn't say anything to the mindee concerned as I knew I would go too far - I think my silence upset and frightened him more than if I had shouted.

Clip their wings you only need to do one :thumbsup:

My chicky ladies dont seem to learn they know if they jump the fence my very playful lab will be waiting for them. But no they keep jumping over the fence and then clucking like mad to get my attention :D

hectors house
17-08-2013, 11:09 AM
Clip their wings you only need to do one :thumbsup:

:D


Is that advice aimed at the chickens or the mindee who painted the table! :laughing::laughing:

Daisy De
17-08-2013, 11:30 AM
Jadavi your octopus story is horrific, I was really shocked, I would have been just as traumatised as your family.

I also agree with you regarding the children, age is no excuse for cruelty. Chasing a chicken is one thing, although to be honest I wouldn't allow that either but cornering a living creature and scaring it like that is totally unacceptable. Mind you, maybe its me as I would prevent a child stepping on an insect as well and like to educate them as to the purpose of the tiniest living thing.

FussyElmo
17-08-2013, 11:35 AM
Is that advice aimed at the chickens or the mindee who painted the table! :laughing::laughing:

The mindee who painted the table :D :laughing::laughing:

jadavi
17-08-2013, 11:50 AM
Haha

Yes daisy with you there 100%
I am always talking about how would they feel if a giant picked them up and pulled their hair for fun etc
And how lucky it is that we happen to be the biggest and cleverest species alive
They always look so amazed :)

bindy
17-08-2013, 11:58 AM
My daughter loves all animals, she gets very upset when I get out the fly spay " Its only tiny mummy" she will say. The problem I have at the moment, she is becoming a little mean to the mindees. She used to enjoy having them around, always looked forward, but now its a different story, I hope its a stage or her age, she is coming up to 4. Others have told me that age is awful! Who knows???

Samijanec
17-08-2013, 12:29 PM
My daughter loves all animals, she gets very upset when I get out the fly spay " Its only tiny mummy" she will say. The problem I have at the moment, she is becoming a little mean to the mindees. She used to enjoy having them around, always looked forward, but now its a different story, I hope its a stage or her age, she is coming up to 4. Others have told me that age is awful! Who knows???

Ages 1-21are awful.... :D:D

AliceK
17-08-2013, 02:08 PM
Jadavi your octopus story is horrific, I was really shocked, I would have been just as traumatised as your family.

I also agree with you regarding the children, age is no excuse for cruelty. Chasing a chicken is one thing, although to be honest I wouldn't allow that either but cornering a living creature and scaring it like that is totally unacceptable. Mind you, maybe its me as I would prevent a child stepping on an insect as well and like to educate them as to the purpose of the tiniest living thing.

You sound like me. When with me none of us tread on anything. On our walk to school if it's been raining all the mindees know that if we see snails / worms on the pavement we gently move them onto the grass verge so they don't get trodden on.
The only thing I don't like is wasps and I will spray them if they are in the house, not bees, I like bees but wasps I hate.

xxxx

Daisy De
17-08-2013, 04:35 PM
You sound like me. When with me none of us tread on anything. On our walk to school if it's been raining all the mindees know that if we see snails / worms on the pavement we gently move them onto the grass verge so they don't get trodden on.
The only thing I don't like is wasps and I will spray them if they are in the house, not bees, I like bees but wasps I hate.

xxxx

And you sound like me AliceK :laughing:
I move snails and worms from the path. I also like bees but not wasps although I saw a programme once about their place in the world, can't remember what that was now and vowed to try and tolerate them :)

I also discourage my mindees from picking too many flowers as they look so much nicer left where they grow and also they begin to die as soon as they are picked :(

Supernanny86
17-08-2013, 09:28 PM
I was horrified when I was showing one of my boys a caterpillar on the path (he'd been really interested in butterflies so made sense!!) anyways he tried to stamp on it and I was so cross!! :(