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View Full Version : Is your LA still imposing conditions to draw funding? DfE response here



Simona
13-08-2013, 05:45 PM
We have several threads on this and hundreds of posts...so I thought I'd post this separately for all cms interested to see in case it applies to them
Many LAs have now allowed cms to draw funding for 2, 3 and 4 year olds while others have not and continue to impose conditions

I have reported cms concerns to the DfE over a period of time and this afternoon I received this email (please ignore the fact it refers to my LA as they have now included cms...so not applicable to me personally)

I am sure the email is clear on what the LAs duties are as from 1 Sept
I am concerned, however, that it leaves cms to fight their corner and even having to resort to using a complaints procedure before the DfE will intervene?

I am not sure how to react to this apart from feeling very cross at the moment.
Read the email...does this apply to you?

''Dear Simona

Thank you for your emails setting out the difficulties childminders in some local authorities are experiencing in relation to receiving funding to deliver early education places for two, three and four year olds.

As David explained, our revised statutory guidance for local authorities makes clear that local authorities should base their decisions on whether to fund any provider solely on the provider’s Ofsted inspection judgement.

The guidance will come into effect from 1 September. Local authorities should not depart from the guidance unless they have good reason to do so.
If, in September you consider that your local authority is acting unreasonably and not having regard to the guidance, you can raise a complaint through the authority’s complaints procedure.
If you are unable to resolve your concerns through the complaints process and you feel that the local authority is not following the guidance, please do write to us again and we will investigate.

In the meantime I suggest that you continue discussions with your contacts in the early years team at the local authority.

Steph Martin

Early Learning Framework Team'' (end)

Chatterbox Childcare
13-08-2013, 06:03 PM
Simoma thank you for what you are doing and I am sure it will help people everywhere up and down the country. It is especially good of you to take the time to fight this as you LA is now allowing the drawing of funding for 2, 3 & 4 year olds

I myself am waiting another week to hear from mine but will keep you updated

Once again, thank you. Your efforts and achievement on this has not gone un noticed

Debbie

AgentTink
13-08-2013, 06:21 PM
Thank you so much for this Simona, and taking the time to try and get a answer.

My concern much like Chatterbox's is that i am the only childminder fighting this with my LA and I at present have a good relationship with them, i am really uncomfortable going to them and basically saying they should follow the guideance and if they dont i will be putting in a formal complaint.

I really dont know what to do :panic::panic:

Simona
13-08-2013, 08:56 PM
Thank you so much for this Simona, and taking the time to try and get a answer.

My concern much like Chatterbox's is that i am the only childminder fighting this with my LA and I at present have a good relationship with them, i am really uncomfortable going to them and basically saying they should follow the guideance and if they dont i will be putting in a formal complaint.

I really dont know what to do :panic::panic:

if in doubt ...do nothing...sit and wait Agent Tink! I doubt anything will change for you 1st Sept ...or me and I, too seem to be the only cm interested in my area

The reason I am cross is that I believe it is the DfE's duty to approach the LAs and have a 'gentle word' with them not expect cms to go and raise a complaint

Some cms do have good professional relationships with their LAs...it is unacceptable we should be 'enforcing' the law...the govt has changed the guidance up to them to get LAs to enforce it....what is at stake here is the success of the 2 year old funding...rolling it out has cost a lot!
Truss has lavished praise on us in her recent interview...up to her to follow her policy!

Simona
16-08-2013, 04:47 PM
Coming back on my own thread...just some feedback

I have received all my documents from my LA...I seem to be fully included in the funding (not sure how many other cms have expressed an interest in the funding though...am I alone??)
I am now on the Directory of providers...funny that...it is exactly where I was when I belonged to the network 7 years ago...so back to square one!
The forms are not overwhelming, just basic details to give them and one form to print every time a child is in my setting with a parent declaration...not too bad
Payment goes directly into my account within 30 days....so far so good but I am still waiting to see their revised 'Code of practice'...just in case

One thing tickled me though...the form to fill in has the title: Trading with... (name of LA)
Am I trading with them?

Having said that I know that many cms are still fighting and I have not forgotten we need to support each other until ALL are included if they want to be ...so I sent a follow up email is response to the one below that leaves cms to raise a complaint if their LA does not comply


''Thank you for your reply

I have heard from my LA and it appears that they are to include cms in the funding but until I see the content of their revised 'Code of practice' I am not sure if any conditions will still be imposed....if so I will have to reflect.
I was not writing to you about my experience but on behalf of other cms.

The list of barriers sent to you are those from cms all over England.

The Minister has recently stated she has removed barriers for cms to access funding.
Most cms are very happy with this and for some cms this has been easy to achieve.
You now say cms need to resort to a 'Complaint' procedure if they feel their LA is uncooperative?

In my view this is an additional and unwelcome new 'barrier' as many cms have good professional relationships with their EY team and would feel uncomfortable doing so.

Either the Guidance is Statutory or it is not.
LAs have no doubt in realising the EYFS is a legal requirement for ALL so why the different interpretation for the funding Guidance?

I am aware the DfE has invested money to roll out the 'Achieving 2 year olds' programme.
I have attended various conferences with the Minister herself and David speaking, to make sure I understood what it meant.
I am very clear but the LAs are not.

It is up to the DfE to make sure LAs do as required and not leave cms with another fight on their hands.

The success of the funding scheme can only happen if all LAs comply and stop imposing local conditions or other additional burdens to cms as this is a national scheme not a local one.

Thank you for your time.

Regards

Simona McKenzie''

If I get a reply I will post it for you...keep putting pressure on your LA...you don't have to fall out with them just claim what is your right now....good luck!

lilac_dragon
17-08-2013, 08:39 AM
Had an email from my LA last night re funding - only skimmed it at the mo as I have grandchildren here but will read it properly later.
It seems to be that they are going with what the Government have said and I can't see any restrictions imposed. As long as you have the Good or above there's no restrictions, only if you have Satisfactory.

I'm going to investigate applying for this as I have no transport for Network meetings etc and don't want to do a Level 3
so haven't "qualified" before. Due to this, my 3x 3yr olds all start nursery for their free hours in September meaning I lose them from full time down to part time. 2 of the parents are keen to have the free funding with me so the los don't have to move into Nursery yet, so it may mean I can keep them.

When I've read it properly I'll post again if I find anything wrong.

bunyip
17-08-2013, 09:16 AM
At the heart of the matter is the status/nature of More Affordable Childcare.

It is not legislation. It is a collection of regime proposals, some of which have target dates for becoming law, some don't. Even the ConDemNation has not yet circumvented the sham democracy of parliamentary procedure and managed to turn itself into a dictatorship.

Much as we would like to have access to the funding for 3-4 yo's , the terms of More Affordable Childcare are, at best, a "should do" statement of intent to LA's and are as yet completely unenforceable as a "must do" piece of law would be.

OK, so it might be possible to attract some brief media attention and outraged parental support, simply because LA's could be argued to be dragging their heels and actively limiting the supply of funded places. But this is nothing new: it is intrinsic to the way in which LA's has imposed conditions for the last doG-knows-how-many years. I don't think there would even be grounds for a complaint to the LA Ombudsman until the changes actually become law. :(

AgentTink
17-08-2013, 12:08 PM
At the heart of the matter is the status/nature of More Affordable Childcare.

It is not legislation. It is a collection of regime proposals, some of which have target dates for becoming law, some don't. Even the ConDemNation has not yet circumvented the sham democracy of parliamentary procedure and managed to turn itself into a dictatorship.

Much as we would like to have access to the funding for 3-4 yo's , the terms of More Affordable Childcare are, at best, a "should do" statement of intent to LA's and are as yet completely unenforceable as a "must do" piece of law would be.

OK, so it might be possible to attract some brief media attention and outraged parental support, simply because LA's could be argued to be dragging their heels and actively limiting the supply of funded places. But this is nothing new: it is intrinsic to the way in which LA's has imposed conditions for the last doG-knows-how-many years. I don't think there would even be grounds for a complaint to the LA Ombudsman until the changes actually become law. :(


bunyip could the same be true for the Statutory document that was sent to all LA's on the 16th of July, telling them how to work the funding for both parents and settings from the 1st september?

Simona
17-08-2013, 12:44 PM
At the heart of the matter is the status/nature of More Affordable Childcare.

It is not legislation. It is a collection of regime proposals, some of which have target dates for becoming law, some don't. Even the ConDemNation has not yet circumvented the sham democracy of parliamentary procedure and managed to turn itself into a dictatorship.

Much as we would like to have access to the funding for 3-4 yo's , the terms of More Affordable Childcare are, at best, a "should do" statement of intent to LA's and are as yet completely unenforceable as a "must do" piece of law would be.

OK, so it might be possible to attract some brief media attention and outraged parental support, simply because LA's could be argued to be dragging their heels and actively limiting the supply of funded places. But this is nothing new: it is intrinsic to the way in which LA's has imposed conditions for the last doG-knows-how-many years. I don't think there would even be grounds for a complaint to the LA Ombudsman until the changes actually become law. :(

The Guidance becomes law in 2 weeks' time...surely it would be good management for the LAs to prepare in time?

The LAs have 'limited' the supply of funded places for years when they decided that ONLY Network cms should be privileged enough to do funding IF...cms went through additional conditions, got Accredited and followed their every command

Accreditation is a form of 'Quality assurance' ...many cms, including myself, have the old NCMA 'Quality First' which was funded by my LA but totally disregarded when it came to funding...others have degrees and EYP status...ignored because they were not network cms?

Networks were not available in ALL LAs ..so some cms had no opportunity to jump through any hoops even if they had wanted to

Pacey continued to endorse CCF Networks even when cms were telling them we were missing out and lacking LA support...the answer would have been to open a network for all based on peer support...hindsight is a wonderful thing

Parents who could not access funding through their poor non network cm paid full fee over the years or moved the children to preschools ...so we lost business

When the EYFS 2008 was published and ALL cms had to deliver it ...that is when the system should have been reviewed and challenged and in fact the previous govt was in the process of doing so in 2009 but lost the election

yes the guidance is full of 'shoulds' and not enough 'musts' but it beggars belief that we are left arguing with our LAs over a national policy?

The problem is that cms have witnessed over many years a system that was openly discriminatory and elevated accredited cms to a level we should all have achieved...'equally' by equal support.

I know several cms in my area who were forced to become Accredioted when they did not want to...either that or leave the network was the message!

How many nursery practitioners are accredited...or even have a Level 3?
It is their manager's qualifications that entitles them to draw funding not the individual worker status of belonging to a network...they happily deliver the EYFS each day in their settings
in addition many of those providers are actually 'satisfactory'...no network for them was ever requested!

Once cms, hopefully, get to draw funding 'based' on our Ofsted grade we will move on to the next 2 issues...
the Free Entitlement which is neither Free nor, as we have witnessed over the years, an entitlement
And our grading at inspection...if we become 'requires improvement' we will have to hand our children and funding back!

More Great Childcare will then never become More Affordable Childcare...affordable to whom we may ask?

We also need to be clear that like joining an agency is not compulsory...neither is drawing funding...if cms do not want to do it they will not be forced to do it.

bunyip
18-08-2013, 09:50 AM
Not all LA's require CMs to join a network.

My county prefers it if I go to network meetings, but doesn't insist. I won't go to mine because they are inaccessible by public transport and I refuse to spend £50 in taxis to listen to someone teaching me to suck eggs. I can go to a far more local network meeting in the next county, but that "doesn't count" (cos my DO can't control and manipulate anything that happens beyond her county boundary.)

I have to become accredited to access funding. That means another inspection and I must do a SEF. This not only duplicates what Ofsted are already doing, it is far more than even Ofsted require. For one thing my Ofsted inspector said there was no point in me doing a SEF cos she reckoned it was obvious that self-evaluation/reflection were instrinsic to everything I do, and not a separate exercise. It's coming to something when your LA and pacey (who are responsible for the county's acreditation process) actually do more than Ofsted to make CMs' lives more difficult. :angry:

In contrast, the neighbouring county (20 minutes' walk from my house) only demand: Good/outstanding grade; level 3 qualification; evidence that a CM is registered with HMRC; and proof of insurance. (N.B. - Network membership not required). Hardly a level playing field and doG knows how many clients I could be losing to next-county CMs who can access funding so easily. :angry:

Simona
18-08-2013, 10:06 AM
Not all LA's require CMs to join a network.

My county prefers it if I go to network meetings, but doesn't insist. I won't go to mine because they are inaccessible by public transport and I refuse to spend £50 in taxis to listen to someone teaching me to suck eggs. I can go to a far more local network meeting in the next county, but that "doesn't count" (cos my DO can't control and manipulate anything that happens beyond her county boundary.)

I have to become accredited to access funding. That means another inspection and I must do a SEF. This not only duplicates what Ofsted are already doing, it is far more than even Ofsted require. For one thing my Ofsted inspector said there was no point in me doing a SEF cos she reckoned it was obvious that self-evaluation/reflection were instrinsic to everything I do, and not a separate exercise. It's coming to something when your LA and pacey (who are responsible for the county's acreditation process) actually do more than Ofsted to make CMs' lives more difficult. :angry:

In contrast, the neighbouring county (20 minutes' walk from my house) only demand: Good/outstanding grade; level 3 qualification; evidence that a CM is registered with HMRC; and proof of insurance. (N.B. - Network membership not required). Hardly a level playing field and doG knows how many clients I could be losing to next-county CMs who can access funding so easily. :angry:

I feel your frustration Bunyip...very much so

I had hoped that the DfE would remove all these differences and variations from La to LA ...but not so

We are even questioning now whether statutory means legal or 'at the discretion' of each LA

Lets hope you do not lose clients..but is that not something you should raise with your LA? sustainability is something which has been banded about a lot by this govt and they introduce a guidance that could threaten it?

keep us posted

Simona
20-08-2013, 08:51 AM
I have sent Nursery World the story so far of cms fight with their LA in order to get to draw funding

If you want to express your concerns please email
katy.morton@markallengroup.com
She would like to hear from cms still facing conditions

TammyN
22-08-2013, 09:25 PM
Hi my DW at LA are saying they do not know about the funding for September guidance and have told me I will need to complete the accreditation to draw the funding!
I have been in contact with them for a few weeks now and they are not budging!
Tammy

Simona
23-08-2013, 06:50 AM
Hi my DW at LA are saying they do not know about the funding for September guidance and have told me I will need to complete the accreditation to draw the funding!
I have been in contact with them for a few weeks now and they are not budging!
Tammy

TammyN
I have reported to the journalist at Nursery World that cms are still facing barriers...as I am on her LinkedIn page I will try to report this as well...she wants cms to approach her for her story...so please do if you are still facing barriers, or being asked for Accreditation or similar
If you do not want your name published tell her you want to remain anonymous but please let her know as I have heard nothing from most cms associations...have you?

It beggars belief that LAs can try to sell the notion they have not heard about the Guidance?
Truss wrote to each one of the 152 Head of LAs
letter here
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/211313/080713_-_Letter_from_Elizabeth_Truss_MP_to_leaders_of_loca l_authorities.pdf
please forward it to your LA...also mention the replies cms are getting from the DfE...they may be standard but they are clear we CAN access funding!

Come on everyone how much of this rubbish are we prepared to take and for how much longer?

I have also spoken to someone at a representing cms association reporting some are still meeting with barriers

We need to speak up on this ....I know the rest of the sector is busy with the worry of Ofsted inspection BUT we must not let this slip to the back of their minds...we need them to support us

AgentTink
23-08-2013, 07:15 AM
Well i am still playing the waiting game. I have sent some questions to the the DfE and until they give me a black and white responce I am unable to take my complaint further with my LA as at present as they are not actually doing anything wrong.

I also sent the journalist a email the other day detailing my issues, however I not sure when she will be publishing her article, or whether it will even help.

I am currently compiling a list of all members on here LA's who have removed restrictions and are allowing CM's to access the funding, so if and when i get my responce from the DfE and it backs me up with my LA, then i will have examples of other LA's who are following the guideance.

Simona
23-08-2013, 07:25 AM
Well i am still playing the waiting game. I have sent some questions to the the DfE and until they give me a black and white responce I am unable to take my complaint further with my LA as at present as they are not actually doing anything wrong.

I also sent the journalist a email the other day detailing my issues, however I not sure when she will be publishing her article, or whether it will even help.

I am currently compiling a list of all members on here LA's who have removed restrictions and are allowing CM's to access the funding, so if and when i get my responce from the DfE and it backs me up with my LA, then i will have examples of other LA's who are following the guideance.

The article will bring out this matter in the open and make other providers aware of the 'many other' barriers cms face...if the message is not loud and clear then we will have to keep banging on about it!!

It is really up to cms to shout very loud and clear...we need many many doing so not just a few...spreading the word, not in one website but by as many mediums as we can find

Remember some cms who are campaigning on other issues do not have the 'funding' worry because their LA has always included them.....however...MGC and MAC is about cms too and amongst the many reforms there is also the inclusion in the funding...

It is nearly a year since Truss announced MGC so we are trailing behind a bit on this issue

many cms have raised valid points and showed their frustration in this forum...how many will turn those into a proactive measure??

bunyip
23-08-2013, 07:37 AM
I'd really like to know why pacey are colluding with my LA to deny parents/clients/CMs access to 3-4yo funding - and spending time, money and resources to do so.

Anyone? :huh:

Simona
23-08-2013, 07:45 AM
I'd really like to know why pacey are colluding with my LA to deny parents/clients/CMs access to 3-4yo funding - and spending time, money and resources to do so.

Anyone? :huh:

Bunyip...you have serious worries on this why not contact Nursery World and remain anonymous if you so wish?

Pacey have said they will help with the funding but not until September...they have asked for feedback from any cm unable to access funding and name their LA (I have emailed them several times on this)
when you say 'colluding' do you mean they are part of it?
pacey have endorsed networks and accreditation for years ...neither are required any more so I hope pacey will now react to this reform and help cms?

bunyip
23-08-2013, 07:54 AM
Bunyip...you have serious worries on this why not contact Nursery World and remain anonymous if you so wish?

Pacey have said they will help with the funding but not until September...they have asked for feedback from any cm unable to access funding and name their LA (I have emailed them several times on this)
when you say 'colluding' do you mean they are part of it?
pacey have endorsed networks and accreditation for years ...neither are required any more so I hope pacey will now react to this reform and help cms?

After a prolonged period of "consultation" on how they would do it, my local pacey office runs the accreditation scheme on behalf of the LA. In effect, the LA funds the local pacey office in return for it executing certain functional aspects of the LA's childcare duties.

Rather than obliging the LA to follow the More Affordable Childcare guidelines, pacey Do's continue to support the LA's intransigence by obliging CMs to jump through the hoops of a time-consuming accreditation process which, as I have said, duplicates Ofsted inspections and actually demands things which Ofsted do not.

I fail to see how that amounts to representing and supporting us. :mad:

Simona
23-08-2013, 08:01 AM
After a prolonged period of "consultation" on how they would do it, my local pacey office runs the accreditation scheme on behalf of the LA. In effect, the LA funds the local pacey office in return for it executing certain functional aspects of the LA's childcare duties.

Rather than obliging the LA to follow the More Affordable Childcare guidelines, pacey Do's continue to support the LA's intransigence by obliging CMs to jump through the hoops of a time-consuming accreditation process which, as I have said, duplicates Ofsted inspections and actually demands things which Ofsted do not.

I fail to see how that amounts to representing and supporting us. :mad:

Pacey have been in charge of the Accreditation process up to now but if now it is no longer required why are they still doing so?

You have a good reason to fill in that survey and tell them
Is pacey asking for cms to name which LAs are still putting conditions on cms and then...be part of it itself? it seems crazy
Keep us posted

TammyN
23-08-2013, 07:03 PM
TammyN
I have reported to the journalist at Nursery World that cms are still facing barriers...as I am on her LinkedIn page I will try to report this as well...she wants cms to approach her for her story...so please do if you are still facing barriers, or being asked for Accreditation or similar
If you do not want your name published tell her you want to remain anonymous but please let her know as I have heard nothing from most cms associations...have you?

It beggars belief that LAs can try to sell the notion they have not heard about the Guidance?
Truss wrote to each one of the 152 Head of LAs
letter here
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/211313/080713_-_Letter_from_Elizabeth_Truss_MP_to_leaders_of_loca l_authorities.pdf
please forward it to your LA...also mention the replies cms are getting from the DfE...they may be standard but they are clear we CAN access funding!

Come on everyone how much of this rubbish are we prepared to take and for how much longer?

I have also spoken to someone at a representing cms association reporting some are still meeting with barriers

We need to speak up on this ....I know the rest of the sector is busy with the worry of Ofsted inspection BUT we must not let this slip to the back of their minds...we need them to support us

I have been in touch with your lady and named my LA so she can find out more, hopefully we can get to the bottom of it really soon, my friend in the neighbouring LA is ready to access the funding after an initial meeting!