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View Full Version : 4/5 YEAR OLD RATIOS......UPDATE



SimplyLucy
10-07-2008, 08:27 AM
I have just had the following email from the DCMA.

The Early Years Foundation Stage Welfare Requirements page 51 states:



(extracted)



Each Childminder may care for:



a maximum of six children under the age of eight:
of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children*, however where four- and five-year-old children only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, they may be classed as children over the age of five for the purposes of the adult:child ratio.


*A child is a young child up until 1st September following his or her fifth birthday.



There has been much debate in childminding circles about this issue, how it will adversely affect children presently being cared for and those waiting to join in September.



Having listened to childminders concerns DCMA approached the DCSF and their official response follows:






Dear Ms McCoy



Thank you for your email of 23 May about the Early Years Foundation Stage. Your correspondence has been allocated the reference number 2008/0045162 and I have been asked to reply.



I should explain that where four and five year olds attend school full-time and only attend the childminding setting before and after the school day, they can be counted as children over the age of five for the purposes of the ratio requirements. These children may also be counted as children over the age of five during the school holidays.



Yours sincerely



Miss Carla Spink

Public Communication Unit



DCMA have also learned from Ofsted Team Managers that they have now also been informed of the above decision.



Do I dare believe this or not???????

Pauline
10-07-2008, 08:29 AM
I'd be tempted to believe it as we have been told that it is 'hightly' likely' that it would be changed.

Let's hope we all get something official to prove it though. :)

crazybones
10-07-2008, 08:34 AM
Thanks for sharing. Fingers crossed.:thumbsup:

Tatia
10-07-2008, 08:41 AM
And now we can all start watching the post for an addendum cos I doubt they'll reissue the entire pack!:rolleyes:

babyandchild
10-07-2008, 08:43 AM
Great, I'll look out for the addendum x

SimplyLucy
10-07-2008, 08:46 AM
Dear Ms *******



Thank you for your recent telephone query.



Please find below a direct quote from the statutory framework for the EYFS relating to the adult: child ratios.



"How will Ofsted apply the ratios regarding the ages of the children who can be cared for? Currently a four year old who is attending school full time can be counted as over five years old for the purposes of the adult: child ratio. If this arrangement is not continued it will affect numbers and sustainability of childminding settings. What is the position on this likely to be?



The National Standards stipulate that four-year-old children who attend 10 early education sessions a week may be classed as children over five for the purpose of adult: child ratio. The EYFS Statutory Framework document uses slightly different wording. It states that four and five year old children who only attend the childminding setting before and/or after the school day may be counted as over five for the purposes of the adult: child ratio.



We have received confirmation from the Department for Children, Schools and Families that the change in wording does not result in a change in the legal requirement. Reference is made to children attending the childminding setting before and after the school day only to specify which children may be counted as five. Therefore, the EYFS does not prevent four and five year olds who attend school full time from being counted as over fives during the school holidays. "



I hope this information helps. However should you require any further information do not hesitate to contact us.



Kind Regards,



Oliver Walker

Customer Service Advisor

Ofsted - NBU

Manchester

08456 404040

I've phone OFSTED on behalf of us all and ask the nice gentleman to email me confirmation. The above is a copy of the email he has just sent me!

YIPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :D

foxy lady
10-07-2008, 08:47 AM
lets hope it stays that way :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Lisa-4boys
10-07-2008, 08:50 AM
Lovley, so my ds2 4 in aug but full time sept will be a 5-8yr old?? even though he's my boy?? is that right?

SimplyLucy
10-07-2008, 08:52 AM
Thats correct Lisa. As soon as he is in full time school (10 sessions a week) he'll be classed as a 5 year old.

My own son starts school in September just mornings for 3 weeks but then full time. As soon as he goes full time he'll be a 5 year old even though he's not 5 till Feb.

You'll need to write to OFSTED and ask them to amend your certificate of registration. They will alter your ratio's allowing you to have an extra under 5.

Splish Splosh
10-07-2008, 09:07 AM
thankyou for letting us know.

devoncm
10-07-2008, 09:09 AM
I had that email today too- or was it yeasturday, i cant remember, my dd goes full time september so ill be getting a letter to ofsted soon too.

Pudding Girl
10-07-2008, 09:14 AM
Thank you for posting that, doesn't affect me but there was someone asking about it on Netmums childminders bit as she had been told that there were different rules for mindeesd and your own about when they start 10 sessions ( so she been misadvised!)

sarah707
10-07-2008, 09:51 AM
Great news for everyone affected!

Thank you for sharing Lucy! :D

Rubybubbles
10-07-2008, 10:38 AM
Lovley, so my ds2 4 in aug but full time sept will be a 5-8yr old?? even though he's my boy?? is that right?

better be my dd 4 in aug too starting full time waiting waiting xxx

sandy
10-07-2008, 11:57 AM
Hi Lucy

I also got that e-mail.

It is almost a word for word copy of one I received from DCSF back in May.

I've got 2 mindees starting school in Sept, also part time for 3 weeks so have had to apply for variation for whole of sept as I have a new baby starting on 1st sept.

I brought the subject up at an EYFS meeting last Sat and our local CMA manager was adamant that this covered us enough to continue as before .

Would still like something official from DCSF though !!

Cheers

Sandy x

Twinkles
10-07-2008, 12:17 PM
Phew !! I thought I was going to be stuffed ! I've got two - possibly three rising fives starting in Sept just for the holidays :eek:
I've saved a copy of that email to put in my file :thumbsup:

Thanks

crazybones
10-07-2008, 12:21 PM
Sorry I am being thick.

I thought this was the case anyway?

My daughter is 4 but is at school and my Ofted certificate classes her a 5yo.

When I had my pre reg inspection, inspector clearly told me because she was at school full time she was 5.

I'm only just registered so has this just come into play?

Tell me to shut up if I am talking rubbish, had very little sleep last night:blush:

Under the old standard it was the way but the EYFS worded it so it had changed. You are not talking rubbish - they were. :laughing:

Heaven Scent
10-07-2008, 12:33 PM
Phew - I think it would have eventually affected all of us at some stage if not this year then in the next year or so, therefore its a relief to hear that they finally got it all sorted out although they have more or less waited until the 11th hour they've done it at last.

butterfly
10-07-2008, 12:58 PM
in devon chn don't also start reception in sept. we have a january intake aswell for chn born after mid feb. so i have to wait for my 4 yr old mindee to actually start (not till jan) before i can class him as 5? did i understand that correctly? such a pain as in other counties he would go full time in sept.

sarah707
10-07-2008, 01:07 PM
in devon chn don't also start reception in sept. we have a january intake aswell for chn born after mid feb. so i have to wait for my 4 yr old mindee to actually start (not till jan) before i can class him as 5? did i understand that correctly? such a pain as in other counties he would go full time in sept.

Yes you read it right ... 10 sessions of school per week before they are classed as 5 ...

So if they are on settling in and doing half days, or not yet in school because of staggered intakes, then they are not officially 5 yet either.

Hope this clarifies :D

Donkey
10-07-2008, 07:55 PM
finally!!!

all we need now is an adendum or something on teacher net and we will all be happy!

hbomb1
10-07-2008, 08:25 PM
That's fantastic - yipeeeeeeeeeeeeee :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

My DS2 starts school in September and I have got a baby starting on the 8th. My own children are all under 8 so I can only take 3 more, two of which (as of Sept) can be under 5 now. :D :D

Gherkin
11-07-2008, 02:10 PM
I spoke to Ofsted about this today and they are having to get back to me as the girl I spoke to was clueless.

It was only on wednesday that an inspector rang me to discuss my application for a variation and said she was not going to process it because they were still waiting for clarification - she had been in EYFS training all that day and they had been trying to see if resolution came out of it but apparantly not.

I will not fill my ds spot until I have a new certificate.:(

Hannahlg
12-07-2008, 06:05 PM
well my mum was told that we can only class the mas over i nthe school hoildays when they turn 5

miffy
12-07-2008, 06:49 PM
I spoke to Ofsted about this today and they are having to get back to me as the girl I spoke to was clueless.

It was only on wednesday that an inspector rang me to discuss my application for a variation and said she was not going to process it because they were still waiting for clarification - she had been in EYFS training all that day and they had been trying to see if resolution came out of it but apparantly not.

I will not fill my ds spot until I have a new certificate.:(

Another case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing then?

Wish they would make up their minds once and for all

Miffy xx

Gherkin
13-07-2008, 09:19 AM
Another case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing then?

Wish they would make up their minds once and for all

Miffy xx

That is so true Miffy. I just am not guaranteeing my parents anything until I have a new registration certificate from Ofsted.