Visit from hell

[kellyskidz!]

Where do I START!??
Every childminder I know has said how lucky I've been with visits and having good kids in, today blew that theory out of the water.
2 yo old boy comes in with mum today, walks straight over to my daughter and pulls her hair. Odd I thought, why did he do that?
Mum told him off and he sat placidly playing for a minute then said sorry to my daughter who was upset but trying not to show it
Let them outside to play and mum starts her list of negative things to tell me
He bites
He hits
He swears
He throws food
He breaks everything he can
Social services are involved with the family
He spits at people
His last childminder had a BREAKDOWN

During the 25 mins outside he bit my daughter twice, he threw sand in her eyes, he threw a toy garage at my head and broke it. I wanted to cry! Mum was telling him off and seemed to be crying out for help for me to 'sort him out'
She said she wants someone to help her as she feels so alone and doesn't know how to discipline him
It was awful, I was so shocked I just showed them out and said I'd do another visit on Friday morning.
After speaking to my mentor she told me I should have kicked them out of the house there and then (she's got more backbone than me) and to call his old cm who I know through others.
I rang her and she begged me not to take this child on, obviously we couldn't say too much because of confidentiality but she said if she could give me a warning this was it.
I thought about it loads and as I have a baby and a one yo and my own 4 year old daughter that I couldn't put them at risk
I messaged mum two minutes ago (since she didnt leave a contact no) to say upon reflection I don't feel my house is right for him and that she could ring me to speak further if she liked.
Now I feel sick with nerves and worried that mum will ring me being abusive or something! Please someone tell me I've don't the right thing!?xx

[Rick]

You have done the right thing. You have a duty of care to your other children. If he did that many things in that short space of time you would do nothing except follow him around making sure he doesn't do something else and that's not right!

[SYLVIA]

Sounds as if you have done the right thing. If you took him on and he harmed or hampers the care of the others, you could loose your work from them and be left with him. Stand your ground if mum comes back to you and explain that you need to consider the others that you already have

[smurfette]

You have done the right thing. You have a duty of care to your other children. If he did that many things in that short space of time you would do nothing except follow him around making sure he doesn't do something else and that's not right!

What Rick said! Hugs for you sounds like a nightmare! You, your kids and your stuff would not have been safe and you would be very stressed! With little ones of your own you are not the right person to help, although you want to!

[madredann]

No no no dont take the child. You have done the right thing his behaviour sounds very extreme if anything he needs a very controlled one to one situation if going down the childminder route maybe then introducing a child when he has settled and unfortunately it sounds like she will struggle to find that which is a real shame for the boy who already seems for whatever reasons to be struggling for attention What can the mum say to you she is aware of all his issues she told you about them.. dont worry its just sad when we cant help everyone x

[Nicola Carlyle]

I think you've DEFINATELY done the right thing. If you see red and danger is running through your mind then you have duty of care to the mindees you already have. This child will not fit in with your setting by the sounds of it so it seems unrealistic you would be able to help. I think what you've said to her is absolutely fine. If she does call and become abusive then you are within your right to put the phone down. You have done the right thing. xxx

[Anacrusis]

I totally think that this little one needs one to one, which isn't possible if you have friends of your own. You feel bad now but you'd feel worse if you felt stuck in a situation where you were caring for him, struggling, and having to give notice. xx

[VeggieSausage]

his mother is responsible for sorting this out and not you and the other children do not deserve it....you did the right thing, lucky escape!

[ktdg85]

I agree with all of the above!! You have protected the children already in your care, and protected yourself!! Do not feel any kind of guilt!! We all back you!! :-)

[kellyskidz!]

Thanks guys, needed to hear that. Been speaking to my sister and she's hit the nail on the head when she said of course you want to help him but you can't play social worker to him, you're not trained to manage this or don't have the time or the one to one attention he needs right now
I feel a bit guilty too, like I've given up before he's started but I know i can't take responsibility for every child with problems, as much as I'd like too. I can't afford to even attempt it, knowing I'm putting others in potential danger, because if he did what he did today around a baby he could seriously injury them.
Feel a lot better for your comments though, always nice to know there's people to back you up. Thank you again
:group hug:xx

[Kiddleywinks]

Where do I START!??
Every childminder I know has said how lucky I've been with visits and having good kids in, today blew that theory out of the water.
2 yo old boy comes in with mum today, walks straight over to my daughter and pulls her hair. Odd I thought, why did he do that?
Mum told him off and he sat placidly playing for a minute then said sorry to my daughter who was upset but trying not to show it
Let them outside to play and mum starts her list of negative things to tell me
He bites
He hits
He swears
He throws food
He breaks everything he can
Social services are involved with the family
He spits at people
His last childminder had a BREAKDOWN


At least she was honest :laughing:


It was awful, I was so shocked I just showed them out and said I'd do another visit on Friday morning.
After speaking to my mentor she told me I should have kicked them out of the house there and then (she's got more backbone than me) and to call his old cm who I know through others.
I rang her and she begged me not to take this child on, obviously we couldn't say too much because of confidentiality but she said if she could give me a warning this was it.
I would definitely be taking the other minders advice on this one


I thought about it loads and as I have a baby and a one yo and my own 4 year old daughter that I couldn't put them at risk
I messaged mum two minutes ago (since she didnt leave a contact no) to say upon reflection I don't feel my house is right for him and that she could ring me to speak further if she liked.
Now I feel sick with nerves and worried that mum will ring me being abusive or something! Please someone tell me I've don't the right thing!?xx
You have a duty of care to protect the safety and well being of ALL children in your care (including your own!) and with the other children you have and their ages, you do not have the capacity to devote the time and effort required to one child without it affecting the others. You have definitely done the right thing :thumbsup:


During the 25 mins outside he bit my daughter twice, he threw sand in her eyes, he threw a toy garage at my head and broke it. I wanted to cry! Mum was telling him off and seemed to be crying out for help for me to 'sort him out'

She said she wants someone to help her as she feels so alone and doesn't know how to discipline him
Sorry, but it really frustrates me when parents allow this sort of behaviour because it's the easier option, but then expect other people to sort out their mess!
At 4 years old, it has taken 4 years to establish this pattern of behaviour, you, nor anyone else, will be able to rectify this overnight! And not on your own! You would need Mum to continue any efforts made with you at home, and unfortunately, a lot of parents don't have the 'strength' (CBA'd) to do so, so all your good work would be overturned by the weekend.

If there is already Social Services involved, and nothing is changing with that involvement, then I doubt it would change with lil old you involved.

Don't lose sleep on this, as your friend pointed out, you are not equipped to deal with this. You haven't given up, you have accepted your limitations on this occasion, and that's not a bad thing :thumbsup:

[chriss]

The words "Danger money" come to mind

[kellyskidz!]

So relieved!! I thought someone would pop up saying my worst fears, you haven't given him a chance, now you've said you won't take him what will happen etc etc.
This is why I love this forum, no-one judges!
Mum did phone me to say she was a little put out but she totally understood. She asked me to recommend another cm in the area but I just referred her to the local database as I don't want to be responsible for recommending anyone.
I told his old cm that I'd decided not to care for him and she said she was so relieved as she'd been worrying all day lol! She went on to say he'd turned her life upside down and the only reason she had found the courage to give notice was because she is pregnant and was worried about her unborn baby. I really felt for her, and am glad I didn't let things get tht far
Feeling more positive this morning and have a slight 'dodged a bullet' feeling. Also another little boy is coming for a visit on Friday so hopefully alls well that ends well! Thanks again for advice and support xxx

[Ripeberry]

We don't have to take anyone on we don't want. Even if someone came to me and it went well but there was something I didn't like about them I would not take them on. It works both ways. They can complain all they like. It's YOUR home!
This is why I'm against agencies. Can you imagine if they dictated who we had in our homes! :panic:

[oxfordshirecm]

I have learnt the hard way of thinking I can help / change bad behaviour- if nearly cost me my husband and my job- never again. I'm going to trust my instinct and try to do some research on families before I say a def yes. Certainly will be enforcing the 4 week settling period x

[hectors house]

I did take on a little boy who sounded only half as bad as the one you had come for a visit - on first visit he threw toys across the room and then picked cat up by her tail and swung her round when in garden! The mum was a teenage mum doing a college course, so got funded childcare - I increased my hourly rate on the forms "danger money". For the next meeting I suggested meeting at the park - on neutral ground.

I only looked after him for a year and I do feel I made a difference to his behaviour, but he then went to a "free for all nursery" his behaviour lapsed again - he is at school now and I hear from a friend who works with his mum, that she is always being called out of work by the school because he is in trouble again.

I wouldn't have taken him on though if he had attacked other children on first visit. I also once had to give notice to a little boy with disabilities, I was worried that it would be classed as discrimination and was actually considering giving up minding due to his behaviour - I found another minder for him but she couldn't cope with him either (she had SENCO experience from working in a Nursery). Like you said we aren't social workers and have to know when something will seriously impact on our lives and our mindees.

[amylouise867]

Aww sorry it wasn't a good visit but I agree this wouldn't be fair at the moment on you the children you have currently & this little boy.

He needs one to one support for a while. Establish his triggers, building that close bond & so on. If the family are sadly involved with social services this may be part of the reason he is acting as he does. It is no doubt his way to deal with things as its the only way he knows how how at the moment.

Don't feel bad or guilty as you have done the right thing for you all for now.

I have worked with alot of children like this & have loved the outcomes as it's such a reward as you see them calming down & dealing with their anger & upset differently. However it's taken a lot of time & effort & on a one to one basis too. Behaviours he is showing take a long time to get out of.

Also if you have been warned I think that speaks volumes & shows you in itself going with your instincts was right.

Don't worry about mom - it's great you have offered to talk to her about it afterwards.... You haven't just cut her off & said not interested bye. You're offering to be supportive.

Don't worry about a thing - Cause every little thing is gona be alright :)

Amy :) x

[kellyskidz!]

I did take on a little boy who sounded only half as bad as the one you had come for a visit - on first visit he threw toys across the room and then picked cat up by her tail and swung her round when in garden! The mum was a teenage mum doing a college course, so got funded childcare - I increased my hourly rate on the forms "danger money". For the next meeting I suggested meeting at the park - on neutral ground.

I only looked after him for a year and I do feel I made a difference to his behaviour, but he then went to a "free for all nursery" his behaviour lapsed again - he is at school now and I hear from a friend who works with his mum, that she is always being called out of work by the school because he is in trouble again.

I wouldn't have taken him on though if he had attacked other children on first visit. I also once had to give notice to a little boy with disabilities, I was worried that it would be classed as discrimination and was actually considering giving up minding due to his behaviour - I found another minder for him but she couldn't cope with him either (she had SENCO experience from working in a Nursery). Like you said we aren't social workers and have to know when something will seriously impact on our lives and our mindees.

Just had a phone call from another cm friend who mentioned she had a visit from a 2yo next week. I kept quiet until she said his name then I though oh no it's him! I told her how bad visit had gone but told her to keep her visit and see for herself and not to take my word for it. She says she's going to take him on and it almost made me laugh if it wasnt so awful! I can't wait to hear if she's still saying the same next week. Also I hope she doesn't think I'm weak or something for not, like she can do a better job than me?
It's such a shame because its not the children's fault, surely no child would WANT to behave like this, he took no joy in anything and even when he was playing it was aggressive.
Something's gone wrong along the road and its instinct to want to reach out to them but I keep looking at my 1 yo mindee today who's so pleasant she's always smiling and thinking imagine the upset it would have caused.
I know it would have been bad, even after a 2 hour visit because of all the other stuff mum told me. She was almost too honest!

[Kirstylob]

I think you did the right thing. I think I would have seen him as a challenge and wanted to be the one who helped him and improved his behaviour, but after him doing what he did I would have seen had a definite change of heart and not taken him on. We do not have the training or expertise. If Social Services were not making a difference, how on earth were you supposed to!
As for your friend who is meeting him next week, how on earth can she decide to take on child before she as met them?! It doesn't matter how nice or not the are, you have to meet them first. I think she'll soon change her mind after the visit!

[The Juggler]

i wouldn't have done it with children the ages you have already honey. I had a child like this but he was with me from a baby and was 2 when it started happening. I lasted 6 months and then i gave notice :panic:

[covgalxxx]

I so feel sorry for that mum if she was crying out for your help she clearly needs help,
social services don't seem to be helping them, or she wouldn't be crying out to you, I was a single mum with a 2 year old son so not like this boy, and a disabled daughter, social services helped they got him into nursery to help me, so if they where helping they would have found something for this boy, it must be very hard for her,that no one is helping her, not saying you should you have other kids and your dd to care, like a lot of us, I just hope this women finds the help she needs....

[kellyskidz!]

I so feel sorry for that mum if she was crying out for your help she clearly needs help,
social services don't seem to be helping them, or she wouldn't be crying out to you, I was a single mum with a 2 year old son so not like this boy, and a disabled daughter, social services helped they got him into nursery to help me, so if they where helping they would have found something for this boy, it must be very hard for her,that no one is helping her, not saying you should you have other kids and your dd to care, like a lot of us, I just hope this women finds the help she needs....

I do too, that's why I've been so hard on myself about it and had to think for hours before I said I couldn't do it. I've said if it was just me and him I'd do it without hesitation because if anyone needs help, structure and support its him and his mum.
But I can't.
My loyalties lie with my daughter, my current mindees and to be honest, myself.
Do I want to have a breakdown like his other cm, no thanks ;-)
I'm not saying she was a bad minder at all, I'm saying I understand after 2 hours how drained I felt, she was having him from 7am to 4pm, I don't know how she did it.
I don't know what to say to my other cm friend, its her choice, as has been said how can she know she's going to take anyone on before meeting him, I'm sure she'll think twice. He needs professional help or at LEAST an experienced childminder with older kids and a lot of time and patience which I just don't have at the moment.
Mum was really nice and seemed at the end of her tether but like my sister said, as harsh as it sounds, I'm not here to save her, as much as I'd like to be able to xx

[cupcakencookie]

I'd have done the same too! You've got your other children to think about and your own health and wellbeing too. I love my job but have one child 7 with challenging behaviour once or twice a week after school and find it utterly draining - I was asked to have him fulltime over the holidays and refused as it wouldn't be fair on my own children. Big hugs to you xx