2 year check - what a flop!!

[Tiptoes.]

So I spent what seemed like absolute AGES composing a 2 year check only to find the health visitor had no idea what it was and didn't know what to do with it. The child's parent was so shocked and said she knew more about the visit then what the health visitor did. It's just sooo frustrating spending so long on something (as I was under the impression it is such a big deal) for it not to get recognised :( I was just wandering if other childminders had similar problems and whether I should change anything as I've only ever done this once.
Many thanks,
Sally

[Bambini2]

I have done them and given them to parents when the children are two only to find that the children have already had the check before their birthdays. Other parents have been told there is a backlog and the two year check will be about six months late.Think it's a bit of a waste of time.

[Tiptoes.]

It all just seems a bit of a mess. The health visitor arranged the appointment a few days after talking to the parent on the phone leaving my 2 evenings to write it up which all seemed a bit rushed and hard to get my head around. I just wish we were given a bit more time and credit as it's not any easy thing to do.

[sarah707]

It doesn't matter whether the health visitor is interested in seeing the check you have written or not - you are legally required to write it and keep a copy in the child's file :D

[Mrs Scrubbit]

I've done them and we don't have HV checks here- just placed them in LJ's xx

[Mouse]

I've done 3 and none of the HVs have been in the slightest bit interested. As it's now a legal requirement for us to do them it would be nice if someone actually told the HVs they had to at least read them!

[Mrs Scrubbit]

I've done 3 and none of the HVs have been in the slightest bit interested. As it's now a legal requirement for us to do them it would be nice if someone actually told the HVs they had to at least read them!

Agree, otherwise what is the purpose of them! xx

[Tiptoes.]

Agree, otherwise what is the purpose of them! xx

Exactly my point! I was under the impression that they are the reason we need to do it in the first place - for the Health visitor.

I've saved a copy and it's in the child's learning journal but that's it. Yes Ofsted might ask to see one of them in the future but what happens to the other childrens I'll eventually complete? Just get overlooked?

I know where all my key children are at developmentally, I don't need to write up a report for my own records to see that - Just seems I'm repeating myself for no reason.

[bindy]

The check is not for the HV, some may be interested in seeing them, not many to my experience!

[christine e]

A couple of years ago I took one of my mindees for her 2 year check and thought I had seen health visitor when infact it was a health visitor assistant - I seemed to be giving her more information than what she was asking for because I thought it to be relevant

[Bluebell]

it is supposed to be for the health visitor and i can't believe that so many are not getting 'on board' so to speak. we had a training day on the 2 year old check and the health visitor came and said they can't possibly tell in a brief assessment how the child is doing - especially when they may spend half the time hiding behind mums legs!! thats why it is a good idea for a childminder or pre-school worker to do it although obviously many children at 2 may not be in a setting yet.
I've done my first assessment and was concerned about a child's speech the health visitor has now followed this up and arranged for the child to have an assessment so for me I feel like it worked. They try and do them at 2 and 3 months here so I have a good idea of when they will get their appointment. Which reminds me I've now got another one due to do!

[loocyloo]

our HVs quite like them and say it gives them a good idea of what the child can do, as now they do 2 yr checks in a room at the surgery or childrens centre, the child is usually not very co-operative and they can't tell how a child is doing.

[Simona]

It doesn't matter whether the health visitor is interested in seeing the check you have written or not - you are legally required to write it and keep a copy in the child's file :D

I take your point Sarah but have huge reservations on this Progress check...another area this govt has proved incompetent

It has been put in place in order for any 'concerns' about development to be picked up and flagged up between that very special stage of development 2 - 3 years.
This will ensure children will get the professional support they require especially if it is with language development

Much has been made of it and written about it, without considering the money spent on training the workforce and the LAs busy providing 'paperwork' to complete

So it is rather infuriating that HV are not 'interested'? all HVs should be interested in any report about child development regardless of who writes it.

I contacted my HVs centre and she explained very clearly to me that they are not doing any Progress check in line with any DfE requirement...what they are doing is a check under the present 'Health Programme' and nothing to do with the DfE

We know things will change in 2015 but until then we should flag up this problem as it is vital for young children who may have additional needs and entering school at an earlier age

very important we 'intervene' now and important our efforts are valued and not dismissed!

[Tiptoes.]

it is supposed to be for the health visitor and i can't believe that so many are not getting 'on board' so to speak. we had a training day on the 2 year old check and the health visitor came and said they can't possibly tell in a brief assessment how the child is doing - especially when they may spend half the time hiding behind mums legs!! thats why it is a good idea for a childminder or pre-school worker to do it although obviously many children at 2 may not be in a setting yet.
I've done my first assessment and was concerned about a child's speech the health visitor has now followed this up and arranged for the child to have an assessment so for me I feel like it worked. They try and do them at 2 and 3 months here so I have a good idea of when they will get their appointment. Which reminds me I've now got another one due to do!

Everything you've just said is exactly what I've been told. I think everyone has been told something different. My only thing is what if you find an area where they're lacking and you don't then have the support? It's a bit of a mess really - the parent of the child I look after should not be telling the health visitor how to do her job because she doesn't know. Grrrr.

[Tiptoes.]

I take your point Sarah but have huge reservations on this Progress check...another area this govt has proved incompetent

It has been put in place in order for any 'concerns' about development to be picked up and flagged up between that very special stage of development 2 - 3 years.
This will ensure children will get the professional support they require especially if it is with language development

Much has been made of it and written about it, without considering the money spent on training the workforce and the LAs busy providing 'paperwork' to complete

So it is rather infuriating that HV are not 'interested'? all HVs should be interested in any report about child development regardless of who writes it.

I contacted my HVs centre and she explained very clearly to me that they are not doing any Progress check in line with any DfE requirement...what they are doing is a check under the present 'Health Programme' and nothing to do with the DfE

We know things will change in 2015 but until then we should flag up this problem as it is vital for young children who may have additional needs and entering school at an earlier age

very important we 'intervene' now and important our efforts are valued and not dismissed!

Completely agree with this!! :)

[bindy]

It matters that some one is doing a check. Child minders are very capable of doing this and yes if HV are interested too, great, but lot's of areas, children do not see a HV at age 2. Some children will have a check much later than 2, so already had seen HV. . My local pre school did checks on all little ones all being 2.5 plus, they had already had HV visits months ago. It takes one person to point out any concerns whether its done in sink with the HV or not. HV can be reached at any time/age for any concerns.
I understand Simona another requirement brought in, that is confusing, everyone having different idea's and being told different things.

[Simona]

It matters that some one is doing a check. Child minders are very capable of doing this and yes if HV are interested too, great, but lot's of areas, children do not see a HV at age 2. Some children will have a check much later than 2, so already had seen HV. . My local pre school did checks on all little ones all being 2.5 plus, they had already had HV visits months ago. It takes one person to point out any concerns whether its done in sink with the HV or not. HV can be reached at any time/age for any concerns.
I understand Simona another requirement brought in, that is confusing, everyone having different idea's and being told different things.

That is the other problem...
some children are seen as soon as they turn 2 and then not seen again by the HV unless parents request another check

This is where cms come in...if you record any concerns make sure the parent goes back to the HV
The Progress check stars at 2 and ends at 3...so much can happen in 12 months

Another area where each LA differs...

[Bambini2]

It doesn't matter whether the health visitor is interested in seeing the check you have written or not - you are legally required to write it and keep a copy in the child's file :D

I had no idea we were supposed to keep a copy:blush:.V.useful info.Thanks.

[watgem]

I've done 3 and HV wasn't interested in any, even though one of them showed a child with a significant delay in many areas of development :( the 3rd one the mum was a teacher and the HV asked if she had to read it and the mum insisted she did :):):) No feedback from any of them though and apparently the mum of the LO with delays was told he was fine by the HV he has since been referred by preschool .

[Simona]

I had no idea we were supposed to keep a copy:blush:.V.useful info.Thanks.

Not only a copy of your progress check report but also a copy of the parents' input...important that Ofsted see how you involve them in their child's learning.
If you have no 2 year olds when inspected you can show the inspector how you do the check...I keep all mine!

[Bambini2]

I'm not due another ofsted visit until next June , i'll have to find a two year old before then so i can do a 2 year check;).

[carol cameron]

Yes, another one here who finds that the HV does the two year check before the child's second birthday. Not helpful really but at least the two year check gave opportunity to formally sit with parents and discuss child's progress so at least it was useful for something :)

[vals]

I did a 2 year check in January.The HV did hers in June. I hope she read it all as there are causes for concern that he parents are resisting hearing so I had to write it all very carefully. Mum says she did give the form to her. The result was being referred to speech and language, but nothings happened yet. So frustrating.

[nikki thomson]

Well here's my views for what there worth, our health care system in general in this country is in crisis, it takes for ever and a day to get a drs app, referral, operations etc. our HV are no exception along with social workers (who always get a hard time), there work loads are enormous and tbh the government adding to this with this 2 yr check well I can imagine the conversations now in the local practice.
It's all very well saying we have to do this we have to do that, there not interested etc, they are interested in childrens development obviously but this is just another form they need to read.
I personally don't think we as cm should be getting involved in HV work, yes if there are concerns they need to be noted and parents approached but that is where it should stop unless its a safeguarding issue, to many cooks and all that.
As ofsted are telling us all the time children progress at there own rate, there individuals etc, and so for the vast majority of the children we look after there all ticking along quite nicely at there own pace, a form saying little johnny doesn't say anything a 2yrs 6 mths means nothing, (my son said nothing at that age) hes now 9 and on the gifted list at school), I think most of it is a waste of our time, there said it.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

What is the 2 year old progress report for?
What does it highlight?
What is done about it?
If the 2 year old check wasn't done would any actions be put in place before nursery/school?

I think that although we don't really want to do the checks, we are the best placed to be able to answer the above questions.

Q1. The child
Q2. Any difficulties that the child might be having
Q3. Have I signposted the child on for help?
Q4. Probably not and if there was a problem then the child would enter school with a disability/impediment

In Swindon, the EY team devised a form for us to use so that the whole of our Borough was using it. The HV received it and found it contained too much information.

Now we use the form, meet with parents, get their input, and send a summary form to the HV. This highlights whether there is a problem with the child, what has been done about it, does the parent want any help?

We don't have enough HV in our Borough to cover every 2 year old so the form highlights problems and allows HV to prioritise where the help is needed.

For me, the system should work and the children in most need should get the help they need.

[Gem wright]

I was concerned about a child's speech, the advice I was given was wait until his 2year check. So at last I felt like I could help this little boy. Completed his 2 year check and ECAT monitoring form. Rang his HV who wouldn't talk to me because im just a cm, unless it was a safeguarding concern. Which if I had a safeguarding concern I wouldn't be phoning her! Anyway I asked if I could send her the forms I had ready. She said I could but she didn't no what a 2 year check was or a ECAT monitoring form..........

I ended up phoning Surestart and luckily the person I spoke to said far to much information and told me he's starting home talk.
At least he was getting the help he needed but why couldn't I have referred him to it, when I have been given all the tools to and have all the knowledge of the child.
Very frustrating. These forms which is no trouble to complete, are just kept in journals and I feel are not used to their potential.

[loocyloo]

What is the 2 year old progress report for?
What does it highlight?
What is done about it?
If the 2 year old check wasn't done would any actions be put in place before nursery/school?

I think that although we don't really want to do the checks, we are the best placed to be able to answer the above questions.

Q1. The child
Q2. Any difficulties that the child might be having
Q3. Have I signposted the child on for help?
Q4. Probably not and if there was a problem then the child would enter school with a disability/impediment

In Swindon, the EY team devised a form for us to use so that the whole of our Borough was using it. The HV received it and found it contained too much information.

Now we use the form, meet with parents, get their input, and send a summary form to the HV. This highlights whether there is a problem with the child, what has been done about it, does the parent want any help?

We don't have enough HV in our Borough to cover every 2 year old so the form highlights problems and allows HV to prioritise where the help is needed.

For me, the system should work and the children in most need should get the help they need.

that sounds really good.

would it be possible to send me a copy of the form? my DO is trying to devise a simple form to use with HV and to see one being used elsewhere would be great. thank you x

[Simona]

Thanks Chatterbox great info
I believe the 2 yo check is very important and certainly we cms have a great role to play here as we know the children best.
Most 'problems' arise between 2 and 3 years of age...towards 3 is when most concerns get flagged up about speech and many other issues

The thing is the system is not standardised...each La has its rules and that is frustrating and with children moving from setting to setting info can get lost
I hope that in 2015 when health and education link up we have more HVs... a DfE promise...things will get better
it would be a waste of our efforts if they didn't!

[catswhiskers]

Simona, I would agree with you. I've spent a lot of precious time doing a couple of 2 year checks.

Just hope that somewhere in between (they both turn 3 in Aug and Sept) that my input counts (after 2 folders worth of EYFS on each child).

[Simona]

Simona, I would agree with you. I've spent a lot of precious time doing a couple of 2 year checks.

Just hope that somewhere in between (they both turn 3 in Aug and Sept) that my input counts (after 2 folders worth of EYFS on each child).

I am just about to write another email to my EY to clarify a couple of points on this
It has now taken 4 consultants to either write to me, speak to me or ignore my request to clarify the procedures in my LA...which of course, differ from the other 151 LAs across England

Oh how I hate 'red tape'!!!
Our input should count and I am stunned any HV can ignore any report from a childcare provider!!

[rickysmiths]

We have a standardized form in our County. It takes no more than 30mins to complete if you know your child and then 15 mins with the parents. No one should be labouring over them for hours.

There is a currrent shortage of HV but as we all type there are a large number are training and will know what the 2 year check is all about.

[Simona]

We have a standardized form in our County. It takes no more than 30mins to complete if you know your child and then 15 mins with the parents. No one should be labouring over them for hours.

There is a currrent shortage of HV but as we all type there are a large number are training and will know what the 2 year check is all about.

When I say 'standardised' I mean between the 152 LAs...no point in having 152 variations?
The question is not how to do the progress check, which I am sure cms are good enough to devise their own method and forms...it is the timing of the check

I see no point in it being done at exactly age 2 when we then have another 11 months left of observations and decision making and if any concerns arise later on it means another check will be required which will put pressure on already depleted numbers of HVs.

Good to share though

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I did a 2 year check in January.The HV did hers in June. I hope she read it all as there are causes for concern that he parents are resisting hearing so I had to write it all very carefully. Mum says she did give the form to her. The result was being referred to speech and language, but nothings happened yet. So frustrating.

Can you not refer to speech and language as we can in our area? Next year will be a bit late

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Thanks Chatterbox great info
I believe the 2 yo check is very important and certainly we cms have a great role to play here as we know the children best.
Most 'problems' arise between 2 and 3 years of age...towards 3 is when most concerns get flagged up about speech and many other issues

The thing is the system is not standardised...each La has its rules and that is frustrating and with children moving from setting to setting info can get lost
I hope that in 2015 when health and education link up we have more HVs... a DfE promise...things will get better
it would be a waste of our efforts if they didn't!

Childminders here have undergone training and been given the BRISC sheets to assess ourselves and if we have concerns then we refer.

Ofsted told me that if I knew that a child had a learning problem and I hadn't done the check then I would be downgraded and an action point given. The check should be done around 2.5 years otherwise they will be on our backs.

[bindy]

Childminders here have undergone training and been given the BRISC sheets to assess ourselves and if we have concerns then we refer.

Ofsted told me that if I knew that a child had a learning problem and I hadn't done the check then I would be downgraded and an action point given. The check should be done around 2.5 years otherwise they will be on our backs.

Who will be on your backs? We were told at training closer to 2 the better, early intervention.

[The Juggler]

What is the 2 year old progress report for?
What does it highlight?
What is done about it?
If the 2 year old check wasn't done would any actions be put in place before nursery/school?

I think that although we don't really want to do the checks, we are the best placed to be able to answer the above questions.

Q1. The child
Q2. Any difficulties that the child might be having
Q3. Have I signposted the child on for help?
Q4. Probably not and if there was a problem then the child would enter school with a disability/impediment

In Swindon, the EY team devised a form for us to use so that the whole of our Borough was using it. The HV received it and found it contained too much information.

Now we use the form, meet with parents, get their input, and send a summary form to the HV. This highlights whether there is a problem with the child, what has been done about it, does the parent want any help?

We don't have enough HV in our Borough to cover every 2 year old so the form highlights problems and allows HV to prioritise where the help is needed.

For me, the system should work and the children in most need should get the help they need.

i agree Debbie. IMO the check (apart from it being a formal written report) doesnt' make any difference to how I/we practiced prior to the requirement. We have always raised concerns over speech, physical development and encouraged parents to seek checks and referrals. We would be talkign to parents about these as they arise regardless of the 2 year check. This just formallises and writes down our concerns and any referrals that have happened or will happen.

It means when a child moves on there is in the LJ a record so the new setting doesn't have to raise the issues all over again with parents and know what has been done and see the measures that have been put in place and the progress that is being made by the child (or not).

[Simona]

Who will be on your backs? We were told at training closer to 2 the better, early intervention.

I think it is very clear we have so many variations...Ofsted on our backs...are they not already?
Where does it say in the EYFS or the NCB progress check publication that we would be downgraded on this matter?

We can only do the check according to what our local HV system is...it goes without saying that any cm who has additional worries after a child has undergone a check would flag it up anyway they can
The Progress check does not end when a child has a check at age 2...it carries on until age 3.

'Intervention' in this case is to prevent children arriving at school with undetected needs...once those are flagged up intervention is a long process and referrals can take a long time but we would have done all necessary and required!

[vals]

Can you not refer to speech and language as we can in our area? Next year will be a bit late

has to be done by the parent, and as they are in complete denial nothing is getting done. Only other option would be report is as neglect, which it sort of is if the parent has been told lots of times and chooses to take no action.