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yummyripples
20-07-2013, 10:09 AM
Is it right from Sept this year all minders can offer 3-4 year funding?

amylouise867
20-07-2013, 10:33 AM
I think it's child minders who have good and outstanding grades will automatically be allowed to yes x

AliceK
20-07-2013, 11:20 AM
I think it's child minders who have good and outstanding grades will automatically be allowed to yes x

Yes that's how I understand it too.

xx

marie55
20-07-2013, 11:23 AM
This is the statutory guidance for LA's from September. Page 10 has the funding criteria x
http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/e/la%20role%20statutory%20guidance%20final.pdf

amylouise867
20-07-2013, 11:55 AM
This is the statutory guidance for LA's from September. Page 10 has the funding criteria x
http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/e/la%20role%20statutory%20guidance%20final.pdf

Thanks Marie will have a good read of this with my quiet cupa before bed tonight :) x

rickysmiths
20-07-2013, 12:02 PM
I think it's child minders who have good and outstanding grades will automatically be allowed to yes x

That is only for those if offer 2yr funding and only if that quality of childcare is available.

Simona
20-07-2013, 03:02 PM
Worth reading these points to be sure

A3.3 Fund places for two-, three- and four-year old children attending any provider
rated ‘good’ or ‘outstanding’ by Ofsted (see also A4.9). (page 10)

A3.5 Only fund two-year-old children in ‘satisfactory/requires improvement’ providers
where there is not sufficient accessible ‘good’ or ‘outstanding’ provision. (page 10)



Following the DfE publication all LAs will have to amend their own Code of Practice and should inform cms very soon how to draw the funding for those cms who have not done it before...in other words cms who are not in a network

If you have 3 and 4 year olds in your setting now you should draw the funding for them from September even if no 2 year olds are on your register...this bit is not clearly stated

madredann
20-07-2013, 08:21 PM
How do you go about getting the funding do you have to approach the lea and get a form to fill in and how do they pay it to you is it monthly or weekly?

Simona
20-07-2013, 09:00 PM
Your LA will let you know very soon how to apply for funding...all should be in place before September

Each LA will pay differently but it should be in advance and straight into your bank account and possibly a term in advance but lets not hold our breath they will standardise this!

Let us know if you have trouble

Tazmin68
21-07-2013, 06:16 AM
In Birmingham you complete estimate forms about 3 weeks before start of term, get paid 80 per cent about two weeks in, there is a head count form that we complete half way though term and final payment is made about 2 weeks before end of term.
However the la is still going by their own criteria to be acredited at the moment as usual it will be a last minute change when the 15 hours was changing to be provided over 2 days despite us knowing it could be from the September it still took them until the October to confirm to us.

Simona
21-07-2013, 07:24 AM
In Birmingham you complete estimate forms about 3 weeks before start of term, get paid 80 per cent about two weeks in, there is a head count form that we complete half way though term and final payment is made about 2 weeks before end of term.
However the la is still going by their own criteria to be acredited at the moment as usual it will be a last minute change when the 15 hours was changing to be provided over 2 days despite us knowing it could be from the September it still took them until the October to confirm to us.

Did they say why they insist on 'Accreditation'?
there is nothing in the guidance that says they should not ask cms to become accredited....just that they have to 'limit' the conditions they impose...
this is another documents like the EYFS that will be open to individual interpretations and LAs conditions.

christine e
21-07-2013, 07:39 AM
In Birmingham you complete estimate forms about 3 weeks before start of term, get paid 80 per cent about two weeks in, there is a head count form that we complete half way though term and final payment is made about 2 weeks before end of term.
However the la is still going by their own criteria to be acredited at the moment as usual it will be a last minute change when the 15 hours was changing to be provided over 2 days despite us knowing it could be from the September it still took them until the October to confirm to us.

In Nottinghamshire estimate form completed a few weeks before new term (for autumn term estimate form should be sent to arrive by 31st July) 70% of money paid about a week in to new term and remaining 30% was paid about 3 to 4 weeks ago.

rickysmiths
21-07-2013, 08:15 AM
Worth reading these points to be sure

A3.3 Fund places for two-, three- and four-year old children attending any provider
rated ‘good’ or ‘outstanding’ by Ofsted (see also A4.9). (page 10)

A3.5 Only fund two-year-old children in ‘satisfactory/requires improvement’ providers
where there is not sufficient accessible ‘good’ or ‘outstanding’ provision. (page 10)



Following the DfE publication all LAs will have to amend their own Code of Practice and should inform cms very soon how to draw the funding for those cms who have not done it before...in other words cms who are not in a network

If you have 3 and 4 year olds in your setting now you should draw the funding for them from September even if no 2 year olds are on your register...this bit is not clearly stated

We have not had Networks in our County for a number of years so in order to draw the funding you have not been a member of one. They were found to be too far apart to be able to allow cm to offer funding through the County so they were very exclusive and as such were got rid of.

All 3-4 yr old are entitled to the funding so it is logical that if you have qualifying children in your setting and they are not accessing the funding elsewhere they should be able to with you.

However it is clearly different for the 2 year funding because this is not accessible for all but only for the most disadvantaged and the 2 year olds in are care may well not meet these criteria, though of course if we feel they do we should be directing their parents to their HV or CC so they may find out if they can access it and be directed through the correct procedure to enable this.

In our County at present and for the last year the 'qualification' to become Accredited has been that you have a Level 3 and are Good or Outstanding. This is for cm only as Satisfactory Graded Private Day Nurseries can offer the funding so it is a two tier system!!

rickysmiths
21-07-2013, 08:20 AM
Did they say why they insist on 'Accreditation'?
there is nothing in the guidance that says they should not ask cms to become accredited....just that they have to 'limit' the conditions they impose...
this is another documents like the EYFS that will be open to individual interpretations and LAs conditions.

But the document lists the limits! I actually think it is quite clear.

madredann
21-07-2013, 08:35 AM
Thank you so much for the useful information thank god for this forum as without it alot of us would be left in the dark about alot of things x

bunyip
21-07-2013, 09:08 AM
In Nottinghamshire estimate form completed a few weeks before new term (for autumn term estimate form should be sent to arrive by 31st July) 70% of money paid about a week in to new term and remaining 30% was paid about 3 to 4 weeks ago.

Hi Christine :waving:

We seem to have a rather chaotic situation in the county over this, IME.

I've been seeking to provide funded places ever since my inspection. I was advised to complete the accreditation process although, at the time, there was no accreditation process, due to it being "under consultation" as the LA was handing over responsibility to the local NCMA office. DO advised me to proceed with the level 3 diploma as that was very likely to be a minimum requirement.

Within the last 7 days I have:


Finished the (interminably tedious) diploma course.
Booked an appointment with DO to kick off the accreditation process.
Cancelled the above appointment cos we both thought the new regulations would negate the need for accreditation (i.e. 3-4yo funding would automatically be bestowed upon Good?Outstanding CMs.)
Reinstated the appointment cos the LA are being cagey and appear keen to find a way of continuing to apply conditions within the terms of the new system (reading between the lines, they appear to be looking for a loophole to continue doing what they're doing :( )



Am now concerned as to whether I still have 'suitable premises' as banging my head against so many brick walls is probably making my house structurally unsafe. :p

madredann
21-07-2013, 09:18 AM
It is totally unacceptable that these people are screwing with everyones lively hoods I plan in advance I advertise to fill upcoming spaces so that i have enough money to pay my mortgage, how can I do that if I dont know what to tell parents I have 4 children to consider and these guys dont know their **** from their elbows for gods sake I also have a child that has just left school and now has to go to college for a year (not that its a bad thing but another government decision that I have to pay extra for) bus fayre alone is going to cost me £300 a year I hate been disorganised! I feel so sorry for you Bunyip and others that have had to go through a lengthy process x

miffy
21-07-2013, 09:23 AM
Hi Christine :waving:

We seem to have a rather chaotic situation in the county over this, IME.

I've been seeking to provide funded places ever since my inspection. I was advised to complete the accreditation process although, at the time, there was no accreditation process, due to it being "under consultation" as the LA was handing over responsibility to the local NCMA office. DO advised me to proceed with the level 3 diploma as that was very likely to be a minimum requirement.

Within the last 7 days I have:


Finished the (interminably tedious) diploma course.
Booked an appointment with DO to kick off the accreditation process.
Cancelled the above appointment cos we both thought the new regulations would negate the need for accreditation (i.e. 3-4yo funding would automatically be bestowed upon Good?Outstanding CMs.)
Reinstated the appointment cos the LA are being cagey and appear keen to find a way of continuing to apply conditions within the terms of the new system (reading between the lines, they appear to be looking for a loophole to continue doing what they're doing :( )



Am now concerned as to whether I still have 'suitable premises' as banging my head against so many brick walls is probably making my house structurally unsafe. :p

Hi Bunyip

I have just received the funding forms from Notts CC for Autumn term and noticed that the following sentence has been added to the bottom of the calendar

"Childminders who are only registered for 2 year funding cannot automatically be registered for 3 & 4 year funding unless they are accredited through PACEY."

Seems clear enough that Notts CC are still insisting on accreditation - whether or not they should be I am not sure! :rolleyes:

Not sure if that is any help to you or not!

Miffy xx

MaffAnna
21-07-2013, 09:33 AM
Marie I love you! But my DO will hate it (and me, even more :( )

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

bunyip
21-07-2013, 09:35 AM
Thanks for the info, Miffy. :)

The LA won't even send me the paperwork so I can start to plan or explain to parents how it might work if I live long enough to see it happen. (I even offered to send them a SSAE cos they whinged about the expense of sending it out to individual CMs. :panic:) I think we're just an inconvenience, compared with the administrative "efficiency" of farming dozens of lo's in a nursery. :(

I'm going to press ahead with the accreditation process. My reasoning is that might be quicker than waiting for the county to get its backside in gear and do what the new guidelines tell them to do. With my luck so far, I fully expect to be accredited the day before accreditation is scrapped and replaced with the new system.

Well, anything for a weird life..............................:rolleyes:

Simona
21-07-2013, 09:59 AM
Pages 10, 11 and 12 of the Guidance do not mention networks or accreditation...many LAs have moved away from pacey CCF networks and accredit cms via their own Quality Assurance process

Page 12 lists the limit which include: places must be free, flexible, meet needs of disabled children, children are safe

where is accreditation mentioned or anything else?
clear as mud and open to LAs to impose conditions as before

Cms can deliver funding to 2, 3 and 4 year olds and Truss has made that very clear

All we have to do is wait for each LA to publish its own Code of Practice...I am neither accredited nor belong to the network and I know I can deliver funding for all children....that is clear!!

marie55
21-07-2013, 01:20 PM
I've been accredited and providing all funding since 2010. Our LA insisted we did the NVQ3 and their own Quality assurance course and leadership and management audit. We were supposed to be given 2 years to complete the QA as it was quite in depth. Due to funding being stopped, we had to do both alongside each other and only had 6 months to do both.
Only after becoming accredited and signing the contracts etc did they drop the bombshell we would be paid £3-01 an hr which meant I lost £15 a week on the then 20 hrs I provided one child. I charge £4 an hour so lost 99p for every funded hour What a joke :panic:

teacake2
22-07-2013, 01:32 PM
My area, Staffordshire have insisted I can only offer the funding for 2 year olds if I belong to their partnership programme, but as I have resigned from this due to persecution from a certain member I am unable to offer my 2 year old, who would meet all the criteria. So much for LEAs supposed to be supporting cms and the government to help these little ones.:angry::angry::angry:
Teacake2

Simona
22-07-2013, 03:03 PM
I have started a new thread on this issue: Important message for cms about 2,3 and 4 yo funding

Please add to it if you have any concerns or meet additional conditions/barriers
Having read the Guidance in full and the More Affordable Childcare (the 2 are linked) there may be a reason why LAs are still putting conditions
See 3.23 on page 29..the govt will reform and amend the law, at the earliest opportunity...so that LAs cannot refuse to fund good/o's providers

As that will take a while it may be the reason LAs are still adhering to the 'local eligibility criteria'
I have emailed the DfE asking to clarify whether we need to be accredited, belong to a network, have Level 3 or anything else...it is not mentioned but worth getting it from the dept itself

In the meantime 'argue' with your LA...ask them how they interpret the guidance...it is them who have to provide all the places for 2 yo and are accountable to the DfE!

madredann
22-07-2013, 04:34 PM
Thanks again Simona I have rang to ask about this again today and still been told I need to be accredited to access funding they are going to send me the info-to say this is all supposed to be set up by September it all seems abit of a balls up to me! The thing is if I need to be I will do it but im just not getting any certain answers. The lady I spoke to said it will depend on each individual LEA still

Anacrusis
22-07-2013, 06:06 PM
My local childminding asscociation says childminders need to join a network & have a level 3 qualification to provide funded places for 3-4yos but can provide funded places for 2yos. Is that a requirement or is it a reccomendation? (i'm sure I've just read that we don't have to have the qualification or be part of a network...)

Does anyone know how long it takes to join a network and how long it takes to get the level 3 qualification? I've got two three yos that could do with this funding! They are lovely kids & might likely stay on another year if there's funding when they're 4.

Simona
23-07-2013, 06:18 PM
My local childminding asscociation says childminders need to join a network & have a level 3 qualification to provide funded places for 3-4yos but can provide funded places for 2yos. Is that a requirement or is it a reccomendation? (i'm sure I've just read that we don't have to have the qualification or be part of a network...)

Does anyone know how long it takes to join a network and how long it takes to get the level 3 qualification? I've got two three yos that could do with this funding! They are lovely kids & might likely stay on another year if there's funding when they're 4.

Your local association is WRONG...no accreditation, no need to belong to a network or have level3!!....as simple as that!

Please read the reply from the DfE I have just posted in the thread : IMPORTANT MESSAGE about 2, 3 and 4 year old funding

Anacrusis
24-07-2013, 02:24 PM
Thanks Simona :)


Your local association is WRONG...no accreditation, no need to belong to a network or have level3!!....as simple as that!

Please read the reply from the DfE I have just posted in the thread : IMPORTANT MESSAGE about 2, 3 and 4 year old funding

madredann
24-07-2013, 04:40 PM
I have done the Early Years Certificate with the OU is that a level 3 qualification? Or is there a specific course that you have to be a level 3 in (or not due to the new guidance)

Simona
24-07-2013, 05:46 PM
I have done the Early Years Certificate with the OU is that a level 3 qualification? Or is there a specific course that you have to be a level 3 in (or not due to the new guidance)

To draw funding for 2, 3 and 4 year olds from Sept 2013 you DO NOT NEED any qualifications...it is based simply on your Ofsted grade.

Qualifications are changing in Sept and the govt has rejected the recommendations that cms should be qualified to Level 3, ignoring Prof Nutbrown's judgement but I am sure cms will continue to raise their level of knowledge despite this.

bunyip
26-07-2013, 08:26 AM
Can I please appeal for a note of caution on this thread? I know what More Affordable Childcare says, and it is very easy to infer that all good/outstanding CMs will definitely, absolutely, categorically get funded 3-4yo places from September 2013. BUT we seem to be some way from that 'on paper' theory becoming a reality.

I cannot stress this strongly enough: IME my LA is stalling on this and I've no reason to believe that other LAs will not be doing the same.

I personally am in the position of having spent a lot of time and tedious effort doing the level 3 diploma, only to complete it within days of this new diktat coming out of Whitehall which effectively says, "bunyip, you were wasting your time all along". I am unhappy about this BUT I am continuing to pursue the accreditation route.

Why am I doing this?

Quite simply, accreditation has not been scrapped and currently remains the only LA-recognised way (in my county) of me applying for 3-4yo funding.

I have spoken with the EY Team Officer at my LA. They are (and will be for some time to come) looking in detail at the implications of More Affordable Childcare, particularly what conditions the LA can continue to apply within the new system. I was told, quite categorically, that any non-accredited CM, irrespective of their Ofsted grade, who applies for 3-4yo funding for the new term will have their application rejected. Presumably, the only recourse such a CM would then have would be to engage the very expensive services of a private solicitor and embark on a lengthy legal battle.

In short, there is a gaping chasm of reality between what LAs should be doing and what they are actually planning to do right now. Yes, I understand the principle of putting pressure on our LA's, but I do not want us to be putting individual CMs into a very tricky situation as a result of this.The danger is that some CM is going to read this thread, then go off and make promises to parents about 'free places' only to be let down by their LA. That CM could end up working for nothing. :(

I don't mean to upset or embarrass any members, but things are being posted on this thread that could very easily lead fellow members into business decisions that could well turn out badly.

Millenium
26-07-2013, 08:01 PM
Perhaps I am missing the obvious but why offer funded places when the money that you will be paid by your local authority/county council will be less than your hourly rate?? One poster wrote of receiving 99p per hour less than her own rate...........

That is one of the reasons that I will not offer funded places - where I am (and our county council seems to have one of the lowest rates going), I would have to give up £1.50 per hour, per child - where is the economic sense in that???

MrsP2C
26-07-2013, 09:03 PM
Perhaps I am missing the obvious but why offer funded places when the money that you will be paid by your local authority/county council will be less than your hourly rate?? One poster wrote of receiving 99p per hour less than her own rate...........

That is one of the reasons that I will not offer funded places - where I am (and our county council seems to have one of the lowest rates going), I would have to give up £1.50 per hour, per child - where is the economic sense in that???

Can you alter your fee structure for funded children so you effectively still earn the same by adding on your the hourly rate outside the 15hours plus charge extra for meals?
Ie if a child is with you 8-5 one day & you normally charge £45 (£5ph) they could use 2 x 3 hours of funding for 9-12 & 1-4pm that day which in my area would earn you £26.10. Then the extra hours of 8-9am & 4-5pm @ your normal £5ph giving a total of £36.10 then add a 'lunchtime fee' (for the hour + food) of £8.10 giving your £45 total. Is this allowed?

bunyip
27-07-2013, 09:59 AM
Perhaps I am missing the obvious but why offer funded places when the money that you will be paid by your local authority/county council will be less than your hourly rate?? One poster wrote of receiving 99p per hour less than her own rate...........

That is one of the reasons that I will not offer funded places - where I am (and our county council seems to have one of the lowest rates going), I would have to give up £1.50 per hour, per child - where is the economic sense in that???

There are a number of CMs in my area for whom the funding would be higher than their standard hourly rate. Mind you, I wouldn't necessarily recommend leaving a child with some of them unless they like watching videos whilst the CM gets on with her housework or dragged round the shops with a bag of crisps in the pushchair. :( There's also the problem that a lot of CMs round here advertise on what appears to be a low 'headline rate' fee, but the reality is different once they've added in all the charges for non-attending hours, 'anti-social' hours, toddler groups and every last baby wipe or grape consumed. :mad: So it's difficult to work out the maths with any degree of certainty.

For me, the financial side of funded hours would be a "swings and roundabouts" situation, as I have variable fees, so I can already accommodate the odd low-income family. I envisage the main benefits of funding would be attracting some clients who wouldn't be able to afford childcare or who would otherwise go to a funded nursery place; added to the 'job satisfaction' of caring for a child who genuinely needs a CM. Also, the word "free" tends to grab the eye in any advert. So it's a rare blend of business-sense and altruism.

I think many CMs would rather have a place filled with a funded child, albeit at a slightly reduced hourly fee, than have lots of empty places earning them nothing.

4365
27-07-2013, 10:04 AM
I wonder why Pacey hasn't started doing anything about this yet. Are they more interested in the funding and jobs that they get from network involvement than in representing ALL cms fairly?

bunyip
27-07-2013, 10:19 AM
Can you alter your fee structure for funded children so you effectively still earn the same by adding on your the hourly rate outside the 15hours plus charge extra for meals?
Ie if a child is with you 8-5 one day & you normally charge £45 (£5ph) they could use 2 x 3 hours of funding for 9-12 & 1-4pm that day which in my area would earn you £26.10. Then the extra hours of 8-9am & 4-5pm @ your normal £5ph giving a total of £36.10 then add a 'lunchtime fee' (for the hour + food) of £8.10 giving your £45 total. Is this allowed?

From the little my LA will tell me, I gather you're not allowed to add any kind of "top-up" charge. This is to maintain the principle of the care being "free at the point of entry". This is to such a degree that you cannot charge for meals which you serve during 'funded hours'. That said, I fail to see how they can prevent a private business from reviewing its fees from time to time.

I gather this is why nurseries frequently offer 'funded sessions' of say 3 hours per day, with parents obliged to pay the going rate for the rest of the day. They also seem to often have a higher rate for care during the holidays (funding applies only during term-time).

Simona
27-07-2013, 11:07 AM
Can I please appeal for a note of caution on this thread? I know what More Affordable Childcare says, and it is very easy to infer that all good/outstanding CMs will definitely, absolutely, categorically get funded 3-4yo places from September 2013. BUT we seem to be some way from that 'on paper' theory becoming a reality.

I cannot stress this strongly enough: IME my LA is stalling on this and I've no reason to believe that other LAs will not be doing the same.

I personally am in the position of having spent a lot of time and tedious effort doing the level 3 diploma, only to complete it within days of this new diktat coming out of Whitehall which effectively says, "bunyip, you were wasting your time all along". I am unhappy about this BUT I am continuing to pursue the accreditation route.

Why am I doing this?

Quite simply, accreditation has not been scrapped and currently remains the only LA-recognised way (in my county) of me applying for 3-4yo funding.

I have spoken with the EY Team Officer at my LA. They are (and will be for some time to come) looking in detail at the implications of More Affordable Childcare, particularly what conditions the LA can continue to apply within the new system. I was told, quite categorically, that any non-accredited CM, irrespective of their Ofsted grade, who applies for 3-4yo funding for the new term will have their application rejected. Presumably, the only recourse such a CM would then have would be to engage the very expensive services of a private solicitor and embark on a lengthy legal battle.

In short, there is a gaping chasm of reality between what LAs should be doing and what they are actually planning to do right now. Yes, I understand the principle of putting pressure on our LA's, but I do not want us to be putting individual CMs into a very tricky situation as a result of this.The danger is that some CM is going to read this thread, then go off and make promises to parents about 'free places' only to be let down by their LA. That CM could end up working for nothing. :(

I don't mean to upset or embarrass any members, but things are being posted on this thread that could very easily lead fellow members into business decisions that could well turn out badly.

Bunyip...I hear what you say clearly
I have posted exactly what the DfE have put in their email regarding this matter

I also know that many LAs will be running a short course on 'financial planning' for those who take 2 year olds...I have posted my LA has offered this and the session is run by Family and Childcare Trust
I have booked on it and any cm willing to do the funding has the opportunity to attend...I believe 10 have put heir name down on the waiting list!!

It goes without saying that cms should not offer a place or funding 'until' they know they are on the LA register and have completed the financial forms
CMs have to bear In mind that 2 year olds will only take a place for 38 weeks...while 3 and 4 will take a space all year round...that is the tricky bit

In addition cms need to know the funding for 2 yo is possibly higher than for the 3 and 4 yo...I have told my LA this is a huge concern for my sustainability as I am sure it is for many cms.

As the LAs are unwilling to 'conform' at present it is in a forum like this that cms can be 'educated' and informed ...in a way we are acting as 'independent' cms and finding out facts.

Pacey have been informed about our concerns on this, they have a short survey to find out what cms think on pacey local
I have emailed them as well asking for support in sorting this out
This is their reply

''Thank you for raising your concerns. It is something which PACEY will represent members on and in the coming months we will be working with Local Authorities to ensure that they are all clear about what the new statutory guidance means and specifically that they cannot set addition criteria on good or outstanding childminders/settings.'' (end)

Having said all that can anyone clarify how LAs can impose conditions if come Sept their role is reduced, they cannot support good/o's cms anymore, be children champions while their numbers are reduced due to less funding and we have to pay for training?

4365
27-07-2013, 06:08 PM
I have posted this in the Northants funding thread too.

If anyone else is complaining to their Local Authority about this once you have been though their complaints procedure without a satisfactory outcome you might like to try the Local Authority Ombudsman

Local Government Ombudsman • Home (http://www.lgo.org.uk/)

It's free and a fairly easy process, I have successfully used them before. Might be worth a go? I have to wait until 6th Aug for a final reply from Northants and then I will move up to the Ombudsman. I will let you all know what is happening as the NCA and council here haven't made a single announcement since the Guidance was published.

Simona
28-07-2013, 07:20 AM
I have posted this in the Northants funding thread too.

If anyone else is complaining to their Local Authority about this once you have been though their complaints procedure without a satisfactory outcome you might like to try the Local Authority Ombudsman

Local Government Ombudsman • Home (http://www.lgo.org.uk/)

It's free and a fairly easy process, I have successfully used them before. Might be worth a go? I have to wait until 6th Aug for a final reply from Northants and then I will move up to the Ombudsman. I will let you all know what is happening as the NCA and council here haven't made a single announcement since the Guidance was published.

I will be doing something similar if any barriers come up and not watch the LAs get away with it again...also waiting to see what pacey comes up with when they engage with the LA in sSeptember...why wait until then beat me???

I hope many more cms will do this now we have the 'opportunity' to access something that ALL other providers access without any barriers put in their way and whose representing associations would have done something about years and years ago not allow it to remain unchallenged.

Bunyip...why is your Level 3 'tedious'? I am curious...is it the content or the tutor??
I enjoyed my NVQ very very much when it was still a lengthy and intricate process with theory linked to practice, have a 400 page portfolio for it that I reference to all the time

You say:
Quite simply, accreditation has not been scrapped and currently remains the only LA-recognised way (in my county) of me applying for 3-4yo funding.

You have woken me up now...who invented 'Accreditation'...why?...what is the difference between an Accredited and Non Accredited cm?

what does an accredited cm do that a non accredited doesn't?? yes there is one main difference but I wonder how many cms know it because it is so irrelevant?

is accreditation more important than a degree? in other words do you believe a cm with a degree should still be accredited by their LA to draw the funding???

Do you ...or any other cm believe that a cm with a Foundation Degree is not accredited enough or that their LA has the 'right' to request:

1.I join their network,

2.become Accredited (I was accredited 7 years ago...well in fact I had to guide the co-ordinator to spot relevant bits as she knew very little... but left the network when I became suspicious I would be 'cloned')

3. have piles of additional paperwork (the initial assessment is around 30 pages)

4. duplicate what I already have as evidence to Ofsted (fill in a risk assessment produced by the network which has no connection to my setting and is frankly inferior to mine)

5. consider that any LA who will eventually run an agency will allow ALL its cms to draw funding...while those not in an agency will be left out

Instead of having 152 variations on the theme why don't we have a
1. 'network for all' (inclusive)

2. where all cms get support (equality)

3. where all families get the benefit of the funding (this would certainly reduce their cost of childcare and would have done years ago...sad pacey did not spot this when they were pushing for networks knowing fully well not all LAs were interested and led to a 2 tier of cms: accredited or not)

4. where more experienced cms can support new ones (peer support/info sharing)

5. where the govt funding to LAs would be put to good use by supporting all cms

I think this deserves a thread of its own ...I want to hear more
never before have we had the opportunity to tackle this discrimination....lets not let it slip away..

Ohhh Bunyip...another thing...LAs do suggest ways to cms to do 'top up'...well not top up but make up the loss of the funding in other ways!
will be glad to discuss with you

bunyip
28-07-2013, 10:11 AM
Hi Simona :waving:

Why I found the level 3 diploma tedious:-

1. Badly organised. I spent many hours of work on written assignments when I could've covered the same ground at workshops that I was already booked onto. typical example: I wrote 6 or 7 papers on diversity which I'd been set, and which got me c90% progress on the diversity unit. A week later I attended a diversity workshop, where one of the trainers said she didn't understand why I in all those assignments as this 2 hour workshop covers the entire unit in 2 hours.

2. The content is very rigid. It's essentially about re-writing the coursebook in your own words. There is absolutely no room for discussion or individual points of view. I wrote my first assignments in an intilligent, discursive style, putting the points into historic, social and political context. They were rejected as, in my assessor's words, "too good for this course". Some of my assignments were rejected for "inappropriate content". I did a case study of the Vanessa George Little Ted's nursery abuse case in which I criticised the excessive reliance CRB checks and the attitude that "woman aren't abusers" and I noted these as factors which contributed to risk, because they helped George go undetected for so long. Apparently this was not the correct answer, and I was told in no uncertain terms to "stick to the required course criteria." I only made progress when I realised all that was required was to spool off key phrases and "criteria". It's essentially a "don't think - just write" qualification. Heaven help us if that's the way "education" is going. :panic:

3. The content is painfully simplistic. One of my fellow learners at a workshop summed this up quite nicely. Bear in mind that we were only allowed on the course if we had at least 6 months' childcare experience. She said, "why on Earth are we being taught this? If anyone doesn't already know all this, there is no way they should be allowed within 100 metres of a child."

As for LAs demanding a CM be part of a network, that's insane. I attend network meetings at a nearby venue. But it's just over the border in the next county, so my DO and LA say "it doesn't count". Instead, they count my local CM group as a 'network' group - but it isn't (in fact it's just where a few CMs gather for a cup of tea and a moan, whilst their poor mindees make the most of an hour away from Ceebeebies :mad: .) We do have network meetings in my county, but they're inaccessible by public transport and, after going twice, I now refuse to shell out £50+ in taxi fares to be lectured by someone who seems determined to insult my intelligence.

Simona - could you kindly PM me, re:


Ohhh Bunyip...another thing...LAs do suggest ways to cms to do 'top up'...well not top up but make up the loss of the funding in other ways!
will be glad to discuss with you