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JCrakers
04-07-2013, 12:14 PM
Quick question :D

There's a lovely new minder up the road and she has asked me to be emergency cover. I'm guessing this will be in case of her illness but also it could be if there is an emergency and she has to go to a&e and maybe drop her mindees here. Lets hope this never happens but I want to know what I'm doing if it ever arises. Ive put her down as mine too. My emergency plan used to be - leave kids with hubbie if there was a real emergency. He would ring around parents for immediate pick up.

So.... I'm full to bursting at the moment. What happens if there's an emergency at her end and she needs someone to have her mindees. I've already got 4 under 5 and a couple of days a week after school I've got my maximum 6 under 8.

I know i cant exceed my 6 so do I refuse? Or are there different rules for emergencies? I know if she's ill then I wont be taking her mindees but what if there as a real emergency where she had to take 1 mindee in an ambulance?

What would happen in a real emergency?
Any ideas ?

LittleRhino
04-07-2013, 12:35 PM
Hi if there is an "emergency" I.e Needs to take a mindee or own child to a&e you would be fully covered to take her children even if you are over your numbers because it is an emergency you would then ring her parents for her and explain the situatiom and get them to collect there child, she would have to notify Ofsted, or this is what I was told at my Childminding training in September last year :-) :-)

FussyElmo
04-07-2013, 12:45 PM
A real emergency you would be ok for a short period of time while the parents got to you. However you would have to ring Ofsted straight away and explain the situation:)

sarah707
04-07-2013, 05:24 PM
It was clarified with Ofsted earlier today because of a comment that caused total chaos in the Facebook group - absolutely no more than 6 under 8 in any circumstances whatsoever...

So I am going to go against what you are being advised - in the interests of protecting you from doing something wrong - and suggest you ring Ofsted and talk it through with them first. If you have it clarified (note date, time, name etc) then you'll be fine - but I wouldn't say ok otherwise.

hth :D

bindy
04-07-2013, 07:31 PM
It was clarified with Ofsted earlier today because of a comment that caused total chaos in the Facebook group - absolutely no more than 6 under 8 in any circumstances whatsoever...

So I am going to go against what you are being advised - in the interests of protecting you from doing something wrong - and suggest you ring Ofsted and talk it through with them first. If you have it clarified (note date, time, name etc) then you'll be fine - but I wouldn't say ok otherwise.

hth :D

Ofsted really annoy me, I was told something very different by my inspector who came last month, she told me in an emergency it was ok to leave the children with another child minder even if it meant going over numbers, while the parents come to collect, but to call and inform Ofsted. Does it now come down to which inspector one speaks too? No wonder we get confused!!

Bumble Beez
05-07-2013, 05:27 AM
A real emergency you would be ok for a short period of time while the parents got to you. However you would have to ring Ofsted straight away and explain the situation:)

I was told the same by my inspector who visited a couple of weeks back...however must be logged - date, times, ages of children, what emergency was etc...

Sarah x

sarah707
05-07-2013, 06:27 AM
This is why I am suggesting you contact them and double check your specific circumstances!

We rang for a slightly different reason - a childminder was saying she could have 7 under 8 - and we needed it clarified and off the group as quickly as possible because we know the EYFS states 6 under 8 MAX - so a phone call was made / a post was deleted / another post added with the correct info from Ofsted.

The Ofsted lady was adamant on the phone - 6 under 8 only and ever - BUT we didn't specifically ask the question 'can you go over 6 in an emergency?'

We just don't want you to make a mistake ... I am sure you understand that :D

bunyip
05-07-2013, 07:26 AM
I agree with Sarah. If it's not clear, then cover your own back and err on the side of caution.

The EYFS and Childcare Register regs have no provision for receiving another CM's mindees in the case of them having an emergency. The only emergency situation regulation is that you leave them with a "responsible adult" if you have an emergency. That adult doesn't have to be a CM or even CRB/DBS-checked.

I would therefore take it that the usual ratio rules apply and say I couldn't break them on account of someone else's crisis.

Even if it were allowed by Ofsted, you'd still need to check if your insurance cover remained valid, and whether the LA would require planning permission. It may be an 'emergency', but it's one you're making provision for within your business, so I think they'd be quite strict about it. :(

blue bear
05-07-2013, 07:44 AM
Here we have several emergency back ups, then the chikdren could be split over the group of childminders that way way no one goes over their numbers.
An emergency minder can be used in a variety of ways, such as its you who has an incident and calls your emergency back up to come to your house and offer support, I'd make it clear you are more than happy to be there for support and would obviously help out in an emergency if your numbers allow it but would suggest she has several emergency back up options as its not guaranteed you would even be local to offer support on the very day she needs it. Hope that makes sense.

Chatterbox Childcare
05-07-2013, 07:57 AM
I was told that in an emergency anyone could be used so your childminder up the road doesn't have to use a childminder (obviously you would have to be comfortable with whomever you were leaving).

My relief is a childminder and she holds a copy of my childrens information sheets in a sealed envelope just in case. We used this once and it worked perfectly.

As to sickness, you cannot go over your numbers as it is not an emergency

Mouse
05-07-2013, 07:59 AM
My understanding is that in a genuine emergency you can take in extra children as long as parents are phoned and told to collect immediately.

Years ago a cm friend fell in her garden and broke her ankle. We were visiting her at the time. Her son took her to hospital and I phoned all her parents to tell them what had happened and that they needed to collect their children ASAP. I stayed at the house until they got there. Most were happy to do so, but a couple were really put out by it and expected me to keep the children! Once they'd all gone I went back home and phoned Ofsted, telling them what I'd done. They wanted to know the ages of the children and how long I'd had them all in my care. They just said they'd make a note on my file.

Things may have changed since the introduction of EYFS, but I'd certainly do the same if the situation ever arose again. What else could I have done?

samb
05-07-2013, 09:01 AM
My early years advisor told me that I can never go over max of 6 under 8 and never make another childminder go over 6 under 8 even in an emergency. She said ofsted would rather we use a neighbour or friend or relative in an emergency. I have my neighbour (who is a police officer) and my husband for emergency care.

sarahmc
05-07-2013, 09:40 AM
My early years advisor told me that I can never go over max of 6 under 8 and never make another childminder go over 6 under 8 even in an emergency. She said ofsted would rather we use a neighbour or friend or relative in an emergency. I have my neighbour (who is a police officer) and my husband for emergency care.

If it was an absolute emergency I would prefer to leave them with another Childminder and explain to Ofsted than leave them with someone the children didn't know and who doesn't know them. I live in the country, only one neighbour who openly admits she doesn't like children, husbands not always around so a local childminder is my best option. As I say only in a REAL emergency not sickness etc.

samb
05-07-2013, 07:46 PM
Oh yes sarahmc I agree with you - I'd feel more comfortable too and I wouldn't mind having double kids for a while if another childminder had to go to hospital etc until parents could collect but that's where ofsted ruling doesn't make sense

VeggieSausage
05-07-2013, 09:11 PM
I think the key to this is the word emergency - emergency isn't because a childminder is ill, on holiday or whatever it is because of a medical life threatening emergency not a pre-planned thing, an on the spot emergency where there is no other option.....you cannot go over 6 under 8's otherwise....

bunyip
06-07-2013, 06:31 PM
Oh yes sarahmc I agree with you - I'd feel more comfortable too and I wouldn't mind having double kids for a while if another childminder had to go to hospital etc until parents could collect but that's where ofsted ruling doesn't make sense

The problem seems to be that there is no Ofsted ruling: only a series of mixed messages and inconsistent replies. If you're reported for over-minding and the individual inspector rules against you, what chance do you have of appealing against the ruling? Which regulation will you quote that explicitly permits over-minding in the case of someone else's emergency.

It may sound cruel, but personally I wouldn't stick my neck out and risk my livelihood in this way. :(

Mouse
06-07-2013, 07:26 PM
The problem seems to be that there is no Ofsted ruling: only a series of mixed messages and inconsistent replies. If you're reported for over-minding and the individual inspector rules against you, what chance do you have of appealing against the ruling? Which regulation will you quote that explicitly permits over-minding in the case of someone else's emergency.

It may sound cruel, but personally I wouldn't stick my neck out and risk my livelihood in this way. :(

I would.

In a genuine emergency and for a friend, I would do it. What is the worst that could happen? A full inspection & a complaint on my record? I wouldn't want either of those, but to help out a true friend in an real emergency, I would risk it.

rickysmiths
06-07-2013, 07:54 PM
I have 3 emergency carers. One childminder my next door neighbour but one who was a childminder years ago and another neighbour who was a childminder until 2 years ago.

So far in 8 years I haven't had to use them. They are not there to use as holiday cover or in case of my sickness but only in a pure emergency. It this kind of extreme emergency you don't have to use a cm just an adult that you deem suitable.

sarahmc
07-07-2013, 06:38 PM
I would.

In a genuine emergency and for a friend, I would do it. What is the worst that could happen? A full inspection & a complaint on my record? I wouldn't want either of those, but to help out a true friend in an real emergency, I would risk it.

I would too. I would battle my case later.