PDA

View Full Version : Toddler group to charge minders more than parents



SYLVIA
03-07-2013, 05:47 PM
I went to Toddlers this morning the one I have been to on and off the the past 9 years. They charge a fee of £2 which includes drink and fruit for children and hot drink for parents/carers. They are changing the fees in September to £2 for parent and child and a sibling and £1 for each additional child. For childminders it's £2 for the first child and £1 for additional children. When I asked why she said it's because I'm earning and the parents are not. How do other toddler groups charge? I don't mind paying for extra children but I don't see why I should pay more than parents. Thought I'd ask here before contacting other groups in my area to see what the norm is

ziggy
03-07-2013, 05:52 PM
our toddler group charges £2 which includes hot drink for adult, plus fruit, toast, ham, cheese and drink for children.

I sometimes take 3 children and they eat lots, i have offered to pay a bit extra but it was refused.

Surely some of the parents are working but just done work on that day???????

I wouldnt be happy about the new charges to be honest. Is this not discrimination?

caz3007
03-07-2013, 05:53 PM
I go to two. One is at a village hall and we pay £2 per family or carer, doesn't matter how many children you have. Children get juice and fruit and adults get cuppa and yummy homemade cake. This one is very very busy and we don't go so often now as too busy.

I also go to one at our local sports centre which has a bouncy castle and lots of bigger toys and that's £2.50 per child and we don't get any refreshments. I only take one mindie to that one and mum pays as she wanted me to take her.

No extra costs because I am a childminder and to be honest if I was being charged more then I would stop going

chriss
03-07-2013, 05:53 PM
Absolutely not fair, its discriminatory. Will they be asking the parents how much their partner earns, if they are a single parent or work part time ? It should be a standard charge for the adult and each child and then it's fair to everyone.

cheeky mare for saying it's cos you earning :angry:

funemnx
03-07-2013, 05:54 PM
Most of the groups I attend are great about CM but one group I attend has recently put their prices up for parents/carers with more than 2 children so we have to pay another £1 per child. At the moment, I haven't been going every week and only have either 1 or 2 children - not sure I would want to pay £3 or £4 when I bring and extra child or 2 though.... However, food is expensive and the snack is very good (plus the grown-ups get a choc biscuit).... :rolleyes:

Nicola Carlyle
03-07-2013, 05:55 PM
Not necessarily. Just because a parent takes their little one to toddler group does not mean they do not work and earn a decent wage!!! It may well be that they have that day off or work part time but they are still earning! And what about the parents who take their children's friends along to? I don't see how they can discriminate in this way. If you had 4/5 little ones or something and where there every week then I would maybe expect to pay a little more to cover costs of food and drinks but not because I was simply "earning" money whilst I was there.

caz3007
03-07-2013, 05:57 PM
I agree about paying the extra per child in order for the costs of the group to stay viable but everyone should pay the starting price

SYLVIA
03-07-2013, 06:03 PM
Thanks for the replies. I do take 3 mindees and have offered to pay extra to cover snacks etc but they said no. I did tell them that I won't be coming in September

Nicola Carlyle
03-07-2013, 06:07 PM
Unfortunately I do think this is becoming more and more of a common practise. For whatever reason I do feel more and more groups just don't want childminders there and I honestly don't know why. It's great for the kids and the adults. Would they say granny's get a discount because they are collecting their pension? I don't think so so I don't see how they can discriminate the opposite way. Don't know what's happening in the world these days or why people feel like they have to exclude/make it difficult for others.

Rick
03-07-2013, 06:10 PM
Most groups are one pound for however many children I have, the childminding one is two pounds but still worth it as the kids get snacks and drinks, craft materials etc. There are other more expensive groups but they're no better than the one pound ones so I don't go to them!

rosebud
03-07-2013, 06:19 PM
Most groups are one pound for however many children I have, the childminding one is two pounds but still worth it as the kids get snacks and drinks, craft materials etc. There are other more expensive groups but they're no better than the one pound ones so I don't go to them!

The groups I go to are at the children's centre and charge the same for childminders and parents. If I had more children I would have an assistant too so would expect to pay twice. I did used to attend a messy play group sometimes which was funded, they asked for "voluntary contributions" but it wasn't voluntary for childminders and we had to pay, only a pound but it did put me off.

Daisy De
03-07-2013, 06:22 PM
Sounds very strange. Can understand them putting up the cost especially if the snack is good, but surely it should be something like £2 for an adult and 1 child and additional cost for each extra child be they with a parent or childminder.

Our local Country Park changed their charging from per car to individuals several years ago. Myself and a fellow childminder used to go all the time and both of us had a season ticket and used to spend money there having six children each. However, the new charges and subsequent huge jump in season ticket fees made the park very very expensive and not viable any more. I did contact them regarding the cost in relation to childminders but they would not budge an inch. They even charged during winter months when it used to be free.

It was a lovely place but they just got too greedy.

lizduncan72
03-07-2013, 06:28 PM
I go to a great one at a child and family project in a local Church, they ask for a voluntary donation-kids get snack, adults get tea/coffee and often the lady that runs it will bake cakes or scones for us :) in the winter they do soup for the adults. They also do craft activities for the kids and subsidised day trips. Everyone is welcome and as a result quite a few childminders go!!

AgentTink
03-07-2013, 06:32 PM
I have the opposite situation. I attend a music group which is £5 per child, however because i am a registered childminder they offer me the class at £3 per child, however you do have to pay per term (ie 6/7 weeks in advance) so i suppose they see it as i am a guaruteed £9 for the 3 spaces each week, as we all know i dont always have 3 children with me due to hols and sickness. Without this discount i wouldnt be able to attend the class, so i am happy about it. Also our local softplay does reduced rates for childminders during term time.

SYLVIA
03-07-2013, 06:35 PM
The children's snacks are fruit or cucumber and there's prob 4 small bowls between all the children. I haven't seen any new resources coming in over the last few years either. I really don't mind paying to take the LO's it's the fact that I have to pay more because they say I'm earning. Still I'm sure I'll find another one to go to instead. I glad to see that it's not just me that thinks it's unfair though

Supernanny86
03-07-2013, 06:40 PM
That's just not right! They could still be working but also if they're not working their hubbies are obviously getting a fair wage for them not to be working??!

Tell em to stick it and find somewhere else!! :)

loocyloo
03-07-2013, 06:55 PM
I used to go to one where it was a flat fee for each 'family', and currently the one I go to charges per child. but everyone pays that regardless of whether they are a childminder or a parent or a granny!

what if 2 of your minded children were siblings?

if I was asked to pay more just because I was a childminder I would stop going.

blue bear
03-07-2013, 07:09 PM
Most of ours are free or voluntary contribution. Snack is a biscuit and cup of juice. I put £1 in each to e regardless of how many children I have.
One group it's 50p per person over one. But they run free trips,do craft and snack is biscuit, raisins,bread sticks and rice cakes.

winstonian
03-07-2013, 07:48 PM
Ours is £1 per child over 1, babies free, adults 50p. I normally pay £7. Snack is juice and a biscuit, tea is 50p. However we can walk to it, everyone is friendly, it is well run, they have a nice craft and we all help each other out .........and I like it as well as the kids :)

hectors house
03-07-2013, 08:10 PM
I have always paid 50p more and taken a contribution of some extra fruit to my toddler group as I am taking 3 children and most people there only have one.

Bluebell
03-07-2013, 08:51 PM
I think all should be charged the same. Funnily enough the chldrens centre was saying the other day none of the mums know the chlidminders and could we go to one of the groups or clinics to meet them and we had t point out that apart from the meeting every other week childminders are not allowed to the activities at the chlidrens centre.
Locally there are a lot of toddler groups that welcome childminders and its a great opportunity for children to be part of community and make friends etc. One such group is run by childminders and without them it wouldn't run for the local mums but obviously it is hard work for them to take their children and set up and prepare snacks and then clear up too.
There is one local group (as well as the childrens centre) who don't allow childminders and as a parent I can kind of see their point of view. they have a limted number of spaces and a childminder turning up will take up a lot of spaces when there are mums on the waiting list. the group operates as a support to parents and although its nice for us to have support and make friends and have a cup of tea while the children are having a play or a cuddle with one of the ladies who helped, as childminders we (hopefully) do not need that kind of support and cosseting and have other networks that we can use. Similarly the childrens centre has a lot of great facilities and I think its a shame that children that go to a minder miss out on that but they get different opportnities and in so many ways better ones than parents who can only access activities for their children once a week or whatever in a childrens centre.
As a mum I really relied on that support I got from that group, it got me out of the house with a new baby and let me make friends of children of a similar age and be part of the community. sorry if that seems pathetic and also contradictory to what i said above. but i do think all should be charged the same - if they have a problem with childminders taking up space then it should be said so up front not treated in a discriminatory manner.

bindy
03-07-2013, 09:31 PM
I go to a very good play group , quite expensive £5 per family. I always put in £10 because I take 4 kids, but do not have to do this, my choice and I think they do a great job, so want to support. They have 4 very well trained teachers on hand to help with children, they bake bread with the kids, which is later used for part of snack, along with plates of different fruit and always a treat. I keep away from the cheaper play groups because I find them too busy and a free for all, kids going wild, no one really taking much notice etc.. Even though I have been to a very good one that is run by the church, cost nothing, adults get tea and coffee, kids get drink and biscuits and t we get a little preaching while kids get a dish full of snacks, I guess to keep them quiet !Lol

FizzWizz
03-07-2013, 09:38 PM
In my hunt for good groups I've also come across groups that charge more for childminders. I've taken that as a bit of a sign that they don't particularly want childminders there and have found alternative groups!

Supernanny86
04-07-2013, 03:41 AM
I go to a very good play group , quite expensive £5 per family. I always put in £10 because I take 4 kids, but do not have to do this, my choice and I think they do a great job, so want to support. They have 4 very well trained teachers on hand to help with children, they bake bread with the kids, which is later used for part of snack, along with plates of different fruit and always a treat. I keep away from the cheaper play groups because I find them too busy and a free for all, kids going wild, no one really taking much notice etc.. Even though I have been to a very good one that is run by the church, cost nothing, adults get tea and coffee, kids get drink and biscuits and t we get a little preaching while kids get a dish full of snacks, I guess to keep them quiet !Lol

That group sounds lovely. Do you mind me asking whereabouts that one is? :)

Tazmin68
04-07-2013, 06:03 AM
Hi

There is a sure start children's centre that we go to during the school holidays for a couple of hours if they are doing an activity and where the cost is £2.50 for child and £1 for siblings for the minded children I am expected to pay the £2.50 for each one I do get to pay the sibling fee for one of my own two children.

Koala
04-07-2013, 06:13 AM
I think it is absolutely disgusting that you are charged differently and if not it should be against the law.

If they are making charges different because of PERCEIVED income for individuals attending this is discrimination and the only way they can charge more or give discounts according to income base is to have ALL the income facts.

What nutter put this in place? Are they completely off their rocker? How much do they think you earn? Not that it's any of their business.

Do they assess all the other clients that attend, whether they get child allowance, WFTC, income support, rent rebate, maternity allowance oh the list is endless.... As you can probably tell it is making my blood boil :angry:

I'd tell them where to stick it and report them, what's their registration number? they must be under some organisation or be working towards a directive, unfair practice needs to be challenged all the time, obviously some little know nothing has had a brain cell divide and come up with a perfect way to screw you, what a nutter. It should be cheaper for childminders as it is a cost to you and not a luxury, are they so stupid?

On they other hand, they just don't want childminders to attend, I had this with our childrens centre when it first opened, I couldn't beleive it, all you can do is move on. Vote with your feet but make sure you tell them so. :thumbsup:

bindy
04-07-2013, 06:31 AM
That group sounds lovely. Do you mind me asking whereabouts that one is? :)

Yes its a Steiner nursery that opens its doors to families on Friday mornings 10am-12pm. Fleetville community hall, across from morrisons, next door to the park!

mama2three
04-07-2013, 06:40 AM
I had a similar argument from the opposite perspective a few years ago when I was on Playgroup committee.
Fees simply had to be increased , we were running at a loss..

The usual case of a little knowledge being a bad thing , one member suggested higher charges for childminders as 1- they could claim it back as expenses anyway so it made no difference to them what they paid , and 2 - they were providing an extra service to us as we could network when we were there.
strangely this was the same woman who refused to pay staff for the evenings / Saturday hours when they had training , as it was 'in their own interests.

Luckily other members could see this was unfair - and pointed out that some weeks it was childminders who kept them going so it really wouldn't be wise to pee them off!

Becci26
04-07-2013, 06:44 AM
I live in a village where there are 3 toddler groups,

They all charge a fee regardless of if u are a parent, grandparent or childminder. Generally u pay x for the first child and then a bit more for extra children.
I suppose it would be different if they charge £1 for a family and u turn up with 3 children each week and eat all the snack.
But essentially if they started charging more for childminders I would take that as a cue that they do not want us to go and would look at alternatives.

Supernanny86
04-07-2013, 07:34 AM
Yes its a Steiner nursery that opens its doors to families on Friday mornings 10am-12pm. Fleetville community hall, across from morrisons, next door to the park!

Oh yes I know where that is! Thanks!! :)

Samijanec
04-07-2013, 08:50 AM
I wouldn't go, that is so unfair. The children are doing the same things, how do they know a parent doesn't work? They might just have that morning off. :(

bunyip
04-07-2013, 09:35 AM
At the risk of upsetting members (again) I beg to differ.

I consider myself very lucky when it comes to toddler groups. I currently attend free sessions at the Children's Centre and one church-based toddler group. I've previously attended other church/community-based ones (stopped only because my schedule changed.) One of them charged £2.50 per child (due to high overheads) and the others are generally a fee or 'recommended donation' of £1 per 'family', including snacks, drinks, craft makes, etc. This is phenomenally good value, especially as they all do occasional extras such as breakfasts and excellent Xmas parties with gifts, plus leaving gifts when the lo's move on. It is so much better than the local soft play, which costs far more and is much less beneficial and stimulating, not to mention the extra cost of drinks/food whilst there.

Right from the start, I've been amazed that CMs are even welcomed there, let alone the fact that I am treated as a 'family' and charged just the usual £1. I'm not at all sure that the volunteers who set these groups up ever intended them as a subsidised resource for our businesses. I actually feel guilty about this and have offered more (which they refuse) and so I take fruit from my allotment, etc. which is all they'll accept.

Don't get me wrong: I expect Children's Centres to be free, as they are funded and it's their remit to support us. I also know we don't earn much - but that isn't the fault of voluntary toddler groups (in fact, it's partly our own fault - but that's a whole 'nother thread.) But I actually feel uncomfortable and more than a little embarrassed about the way some CMs take the voluntary provisions for granted and seek to complain and criticise when we're getting such good value for money. At one of my groups, there was a CM plus her assistant who would attend with up to seven children - all for £1 - and still complain about things. There was also a CM clique who'd only talk amongst themselves. At another, one of the CMs was very pushy, and pounced on every new attendee as a potential client. The worst was a local nursery who'd arrive regularly with a dozen or more children. They even had the nerve to move the entire staff and children into a toddler group for 3 hours whilst they had a burst pipe fixed at the nursery. :angry: There are times when I feel embarrassed to be an EY provider with that sort of abuse going on. :o

Maybe my situation is different: the groups are all not-for-profit, run by churches or community groups. I would be perfectly happy to pay more. I'm using them for my business. Yes, I get the same deal as the 'proper' parents, but it also serves as free advertising for my service. In fact, I'm paying less than the families who attend, as I can put it through expenses, so I save on the tax to a degree. So I don't think the "discrimination" argument stands up. To be fair, I haven't noticed any CM's "discrimination" when we get discounts at ELC or soft play, and families don't.

The bottom line is that they are extremely good value, irrespective of pricing policies - and any 'boycotting' would just be cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

Mouse
04-07-2013, 09:53 AM
I have no problem paying extra when I have more children. I'll often turn up at groups with 4. They all have a drink, a snack and take part in an activity.
I would guess most parents don't turn up with more than 2 children, so I'm happy to pay double for the 4 I take.

If it's based on the number of children a childminder takes with them I don't see a problem with paying more. It it's purely based on the fact that we're childminders, then I think it is unfair.

SYLVIA
04-07-2013, 12:55 PM
I have no problem paying extra when I have more children. I'll often turn up at groups with 4. They all have a drink, a snack and take part in an activity.
I would guess most parents don't turn up with more than 2 children, so I'm happy to pay double for the 4 I take.

If it's based on the number of children a childminder takes with them I don't see a problem with paying more. It it's purely based on the fact that we're childminders, then I think it is unfair.

I would be willingly to pay for extra children I take and have offered it pay these. But this increase is purely because I am a childminder. If I take one child it's £2 and if I'm a parent they can take 2 children for the same price. I totally understand the fees need to increase to cover running costs, but to say it's because I'm earning I feel is unfair.

bunyip
04-07-2013, 04:02 PM
I understand your position, but I disagree with you because I don't think "fairness" should be the main issue.

I also think that if your toddler groups are oeven just half as good as those I attend, then it's a very good deal in comparison with the alternatives.