Seriously!!!

[Nicola Carlyle]

Just saw an advert from a family looking for a childminder. The advert stated lots of must haves and do's and don'ts about what said childminder could do with their child. They then went on to say they are a low income family therefore are only willing to pay £3.20 but could stretch to £3.40 if needed per hour.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who laughed out loud and said good luck finding one then!

Are these people for real? x

[FussyElmo]

At least you would know what you were taking on :)

[Rick]

Just saw an advert from a family looking for a childminder. The advert stated lots of must haves and do's and don'ts about what said childminder could do with their child. They then went on to say they are a low income family therefore are only willing to pay £3.20 but could stretch to £3.40 if needed per hour.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who laughed out loud and said good luck finding one then!

Are these people for real? x

Sounds like they want something (a lot!) for nothing! YOU don't tell us how much you are going to pay, we tell you and you decide if you want to use our service!

[Ripeberry]

I'd be so tempted to message them to say they won't find an Ofsted registered CM to work for that. But then they could have the fag smoking/stick in front of the TV with lots of other kids minder who will look after kids cheaper than a hamster!

Some people are just so up their own backsides when it comes to how much they are prepared to pay for the care of their most precious child. :(

[supermumy]

I've seen loads like this
Even one that said if you have wifi, microwaves etc do not apply as don't want the toxic waves near my child!

[hollyvilla]

I live in north norfolk and the going rate around here is £3 an hour. I neither smoke nor have numerous children running round. My last inspection was good and I like to think I give all the children I have had in my care over the last 23yrs a really good start in life.

[bunyip]

I don't have a problem with parents who know their budget and their requirements. I don't dictate fees: I negotiate.

That's not to say I can provide what every parent wants, but I'm always interested to see what they're looking for. Far better than the ones who say nothing but, "well...y'know......." and then all the assumptions emerge later.

I have more of a problem with a few CMs in the next town who advertise low rates and promise the earth in order to attract clients. They then fail to deliver anything but additional charges for 'extras' and give us all a bad name. :mad:

[sarah707]

I know a lot of childminders whose standard hourly rates are less than that... it would depend on where the parent was based :D

[appleblossom]

My hourly rate is £3.50. My only extra charge is £1.00 if evening dinner is required, all other meals and snacks are included. I also offer 4 weeks per year at half fees for their holidays (no charge for any of my time off).

[Nicola Carlyle]

I guess it's not so much the amount they are looking to pay (approximately £1-£1.50 lower than average in my area) but just the wording of ads like these. I do find it frustrating. Would they go and look for a job and seriously consider something much below what the average rate of pay was? It's ads like this that put me off childminding. I have no issue with people knowing their budgets but they must be aware of what the rates are. I also don't know how anyone can negotiate fees. Surely it's much easier to have set fees and know where you are rather than having everyone in different rates. Just my opinion guys. x

[SDC34cr]

It does depend what area. I live in fenland and I charge £3.20 an hour. I don't charge if children cancel or when I'm off. I offer flexible times and days and am full of part time children. I work with my daughter and we cater for everyone. Shift patterns, working parents, non working parents, we offer funded spaces for three and four year olds and for free two year olds. It works for us and we are so busy might take on another assistant.

[bunyip]

I guess it's not so much the amount they are looking to pay (approximately £1-£1.50 lower than average in my area) but just the wording of ads like these. I do find it frustrating. Would they go and look for a job and seriously consider something much below what the average rate of pay was? It's ads like this that put me off childminding. I have no issue with people knowing their budgets but they must be aware of what the rates are. I also don't know how anyone can negotiate fees. Surely it's much easier to have set fees and know where you are rather than having everyone in different rates. Just my opinion guys. x

With respect, negotiated fees are incredibly easy, and perfectly normal for the vast majority of self-employed traders who, like us, provide a bespoke service. I think a lot more CMs would do the same, and enjoy similar benefits, if they weren't railroaded into 'following the crowd' by DO's, trainers, CM groups, and introductory sessions from so-called LA "professionals" who haven't had an original idea in the past 30 years. :(

The only problem I've found is that too many parents looking for childcare will compare the ads on what is quantifiable: and that naturally tends to be a CM's advertised 'headline rate' fee. They take that for granted and frequently end up falling out with their CM over any additional charges.

With a negotiated fee, everything is remarkably simple cos it's all laid out nice and clear on each client's contract. I ask parents to look at their finances, consider the savings they may get from TCs or vouchers, then come to me with a figure they think is affordable to them and fair to ask me to take care of their precious lo. If they really struggle with that, I offer a 'guide price' and discuss things from there. I find I most often have to use the 'guide price' method with before/after school arrangements.

Before anyone says, "yes, but parents will compare and feel hard done by" - I make it perfectly clear to all clients that I work this way and that contracts are not comparable. No 2 families want the same thing. If Mum A wants to pay what Mum B is paying, I say I'll offer it to her: on exactly the same terms and times as Mum A's child is cared for. I also make it perfectly clear that my confidentiality policy cuts both ways. Parents who discuss contract terms with other parents may receive notice.

This has served several beneficial purposes:-

I don't have to bother with the sort of parents who only want to know "are you available and how much?" I get parents who look at the quality of care and not just the price tag. The sort of people who want the best they can afford (even if that's not much) rather than the cheapest they can get. The sort who care for their children and aren't just looking for somewhere to dump them until school will have them for free.

I've gained clients who I would have otherwise lost. eg. A family who didn't understand complex pricing, fees + 'extras', retainers, etc, etc. They said they really liked my setting and could they just pay me what they've being paying nursery. The nursery has a high basic fee, but they get 15 hours free during term time. So I lose on the swings of term-time and win on the roundabouts of holidays. Everything balances out and everyone is happy.

IIRC I only once turned away a mum who made me a derisory offer. She came for a visit, saw no reason to bring the child (!?!), and never even looked at my resources, children's artwork display, etc. She only wanted to talk about times and money, and offered me a little over £1ph because her ".....hair and beauty treatments were costing her over £70....." !!! :panic: (if I remember the figure correctly.) I told her it wasn't the money that bothered me - it was the fact that I knew I couldn't work with her if that was her set of priorities. (Door's over there, sweetheart........) :angry:

Some clients happily pay me above the local 'going rate' (ie. the local CM Mafia-couldn't-possibly-think-for-ourselves rate) and do so knowingly and happily. Do I take it all the fixed-fee CMs just wouldn't be interested in a £7.50ph client?

By the same token, I'm able to help out clients who can't possibly afford other local CMs cos I'll take a lower rate due to their circumstances. eg. Two lo's who've been in care and their adoptive parents are having to spend a fortune on building an extension for separate bedrooms. A young mum who needed a short-term contract to do a training course to get back into work, after her do-nothing partner (the dad) wound up being sent down. No other local CM would drop their carved-in-stone fee for a couple of months that enabled her to get her life back on track. It also allows me to offer very cheap one-off jobs for mums who need to see the local Women's Project for advice/counselling about domestic abuse. It allows me to get a lot of job-satisfaction :) from being some use to someone who needs it badly. It doesn't make me at all popular with local CMs and my awful DO, but it's exactly the sort of "flexibility" they are always banging on about, but aren't actually prepared to offer. :mad:

[chriss]

I do like the idea of individual charges for families, however clients are few and far between at the moment, I just couldn't afford to drop my rate.

[Mouse]

I guess it's not so much the amount they are looking to pay (approximately £1-£1.50 lower than average in my area) but just the wording of ads like these. I do find it frustrating. Would they go and look for a job and seriously consider something much below what the average rate of pay was? It's ads like this that put me off childminding. I have no issue with people knowing their budgets but they must be aware of what the rates are. I also don't know how anyone can negotiate fees. Surely it's much easier to have set fees and know where you are rather than having everyone in different rates. Just my opinion guys. x

Most of my children are on different rates. I'm afraid I'm not as charitable as Bunyip in dropping my rates for those who can't afford my basic rate, but I do charge more for those who want shorter hours etc. A different way of doing things, but proof that charging different rates is possible.

As for the advert, why would it put you off childminding? If it's not something you're prepared to do, close the ad and move onto the next one! I've seem ads like that locally. One family set out their requirements & how much they were prepared to pay. It didn't interest me, so I didn't reply. But, several other childminders did and one managed to negotiate a compromise that suited them & the family. It all worked out very well in the end.

Personally, I would rather parents were more specific in their ads. If the above parents hadn't put about what they wanted to pay I could have wasted my time contacting them only to find out I was too expensive.

[kellyskidz!]

With respect, negotiated fees are incredibly easy, and perfectly normal for the vast majority of self-employed traders who, like us, provide a bespoke service. I think a lot more CMs would do the same, and enjoy similar benefits, if they weren't railroaded into 'following the crowd' by DO's, trainers, CM groups, and introductory sessions from so-called LA "professionals" who haven't had an original idea in the past 30 years. :(

The only problem I've found is that too many parents looking for childcare will compare the ads on what is quantifiable: and that naturally tends to be a CM's advertised 'headline rate' fee. They take that for granted and frequently end up falling out with their CM over any additional charges.

With a negotiated fee, everything is remarkably simple cos it's all laid out nice and clear on each client's contract. I ask parents to look at their finances, consider the savings they may get from TCs or vouchers, then come to me with a figure they think is affordable to them and fair to ask me to take care of their precious lo. If they really struggle with that, I offer a 'guide price' and discuss things from there. I find I most often have to use the 'guide price' method with before/after school arrangements.

Before anyone says, "yes, but parents will compare and feel hard done by" - I make it perfectly clear to all clients that I work this way and that contracts are not comparable. No 2 families want the same thing. If Mum A wants to pay what Mum B is paying, I say I'll offer it to her: on exactly the same terms and times as Mum A's child is cared for. I also make it perfectly clear that my confidentiality policy cuts both ways. Parents who discuss contract terms with other parents may receive notice.

This has served several beneficial purposes:-

I don't have to bother with the sort of parents who only want to know "are you available and how much?" I get parents who look at the quality of care and not just the price tag. The sort of people who want the best they can afford (even if that's not much) rather than the cheapest they can get. The sort who care for their children and aren't just looking for somewhere to dump them until school will have them for free.

I've gained clients who I would have otherwise lost. eg. A family who didn't understand complex pricing, fees + 'extras', retainers, etc, etc. They said they really liked my setting and could they just pay me what they've being paying nursery. The nursery has a high basic fee, but they get 15 hours free during term time. So I lose on the swings of term-time and win on the roundabouts of holidays. Everything balances out and everyone is happy.

IIRC I only once turned away a mum who made me a derisory offer. She came for a visit, saw no reason to bring the child (!?!), and never even looked at my resources, children's artwork display, etc. She only wanted to talk about times and money, and offered me a little over £1ph because her ".....hair and beauty treatments were costing her over £70....." !!! :panic: (if I remember the figure correctly.) I told her it wasn't the money that bothered me - it was the fact that I knew I couldn't work with her if that was her set of priorities. (Door's over there, sweetheart........) :angry:

Some clients happily pay me above the local 'going rate' (ie. the local CM Mafia-couldn't-possibly-think-for-ourselves rate) and do so knowingly and happily. Do I take it all the fixed-fee CMs just wouldn't be interested in a £7.50ph client?

By the same token, I'm able to help out clients who can't possibly afford other local CMs cos I'll take a lower rate due to their circumstances. eg. Two lo's who've been in care and their adoptive parents are having to spend a fortune on building an extension for separate bedrooms. A young mum who needed a short-term contract to do a training course to get back into work, after her do-nothing partner (the dad) wound up being sent down. No other local CM would drop their carved-in-stone fee for a couple of months that enabled her to get her life back on track. It also allows me to offer very cheap one-off jobs for mums who need to see the local Women's Project for advice/counselling about domestic abuse. It allows me to get a lot of job-satisfaction :) from being some use to someone who needs it badly. It doesn't make me at all popular with local CMs and my awful DO, but it's exactly the sort of "flexibility" they are always banging on about, but aren't actually prepared to offer. :mad:

I actually found this post very interesting. I am one of the 'set fee' minders working at £4 per hour, (I don't mind anyone knowing that, not a secret) and when I was setting up my business my mentor gave me that amount as a local average. There was no other discussion about flexible rates or fees and until now, I never questioned it. But reading that post it makes sense to be more flexible, in my area we have college students with babies, rich mothers who don't work but want childcare and are willing to pay a lot for it. Why should all fees be exactly the same, not everyone earns the same wage across the board. Payments should be tailored to each families needs, thinking about it. Of course all children get the same care and I wouldn't ever charge anyone over the odds, but maybe the families who need a little more help could get it at a reduced childcare fee. It's not discriminating against richer families IMO, just a way of helping out ones who struggle with money issues. I will definitely be looking into this and talking to my mentor about it ;)

[Jiorjiina]

With respect, negotiated fees are incredibly easy, and perfectly normal for the vast majority of self-employed traders who, like us, provide a bespoke service. I think a lot more CMs would do the same, and enjoy similar benefits, if they weren't railroaded into 'following the crowd' by DO's, trainers, CM groups, and introductory sessions from so-called LA "professionals" who haven't had an original idea in the past 30 years. :(

The only problem I've found is that too many parents looking for childcare will compare the ads on what is quantifiable: and that naturally tends to be a CM's advertised 'headline rate' fee. They take that for granted and frequently end up falling out with their CM over any additional charges.

With a negotiated fee, everything is remarkably simple cos it's all laid out nice and clear on each client's contract. I ask parents to look at their finances, consider the savings they may get from TCs or vouchers, then come to me with a figure they think is affordable to them and fair to ask me to take care of their precious lo. If they really struggle with that, I offer a 'guide price' and discuss things from there. I find I most often have to use the 'guide price' method with before/after school arrangements.

Before anyone says, "yes, but parents will compare and feel hard done by" - I make it perfectly clear to all clients that I work this way and that contracts are not comparable. No 2 families want the same thing. If Mum A wants to pay what Mum B is paying, I say I'll offer it to her: on exactly the same terms and times as Mum A's child is cared for. I also make it perfectly clear that my confidentiality policy cuts both ways. Parents who discuss contract terms with other parents may receive notice.

This has served several beneficial purposes:-

I don't have to bother with the sort of parents who only want to know "are you available and how much?" I get parents who look at the quality of care and not just the price tag. The sort of people who want the best they can afford (even if that's not much) rather than the cheapest they can get. The sort who care for their children and aren't just looking for somewhere to dump them until school will have them for free.

I've gained clients who I would have otherwise lost. eg. A family who didn't understand complex pricing, fees + 'extras', retainers, etc, etc. They said they really liked my setting and could they just pay me what they've being paying nursery. The nursery has a high basic fee, but they get 15 hours free during term time. So I lose on the swings of term-time and win on the roundabouts of holidays. Everything balances out and everyone is happy.

IIRC I only once turned away a mum who made me a derisory offer. She came for a visit, saw no reason to bring the child (!?!), and never even looked at my resources, children's artwork display, etc. She only wanted to talk about times and money, and offered me a little over £1ph because her ".....hair and beauty treatments were costing her over £70....." !!! :panic: (if I remember the figure correctly.) I told her it wasn't the money that bothered me - it was the fact that I knew I couldn't work with her if that was her set of priorities. (Door's over there, sweetheart........) :angry:

Some clients happily pay me above the local 'going rate' (ie. the local CM Mafia-couldn't-possibly-think-for-ourselves rate) and do so knowingly and happily. Do I take it all the fixed-fee CMs just wouldn't be interested in a £7.50ph client?

By the same token, I'm able to help out clients who can't possibly afford other local CMs cos I'll take a lower rate due to their circumstances. eg. Two lo's who've been in care and their adoptive parents are having to spend a fortune on building an extension for separate bedrooms. A young mum who needed a short-term contract to do a training course to get back into work, after her do-nothing partner (the dad) wound up being sent down. No other local CM would drop their carved-in-stone fee for a couple of months that enabled her to get her life back on track. It also allows me to offer very cheap one-off jobs for mums who need to see the local Women's Project for advice/counselling about domestic abuse. It allows me to get a lot of job-satisfaction :) from being some use to someone who needs it badly. It doesn't make me at all popular with local CMs and my awful DO, but it's exactly the sort of "flexibility" they are always banging on about, but aren't actually prepared to offer. :mad:

That's really interesting, Bunyip, I never thought about doing that, but I'm going to from now on!

[unalindura77]

Just saw an advert from a family looking for a childminder. The advert stated lots of must haves and do's and don'ts about what said childminder could do with their child. They then went on to say they are a low income family therefore are only willing to pay £3.20 but could stretch to £3.40 if needed per hour.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who laughed out loud and said good luck finding one then!

Are these people for real? x


Really interesting thread!

I must admit I have seen some ads with wording like 'you will be energetic' 'you will take my child to play dates' 'you must demonstrate.....' and it just gives you a feel for the person and how they will treat/see you.

With regard to different fee's for different familie I too am enthralled with Bunyips views and must say it's a great approach....

[jillplum]

The sheet I give to potential clients lists my fees as £4 per hour payable weekly on a Friday. However, the last line on the sheets says All fees are negotiable depending on individual circumstances. Has worked for me for all these years.

[MessybutHappy]

I haven't yet seen the need to be as flexible as Bunyip, yet, but I would if I was asked to, especially for short term stuff. But I do have different families on different rates for different reasons, and we're all happy! I'd be v cross if they discussed them with each other though!

[karen m]

Am with Bunyip I offer flexible fees , always have and always will, not only is every child and individual every family has individual needs.

[Mummits]

I have had the pleasure of a parent (to whom I had already given my fees) visit then phone back to say he was impressed with my setup and me personally, but that I would HAVE to rethink my charges and that he would be negotiating a significant reduction. I politely told him I would not be offering any discounts. His wife then phoned to apologise on his behalf (as he had apparently refused to do so himself) and ask me if I would still have their child - I said I couldn't as I was now full. He then phoned to say I didn't LOOK full (I insisted I was, but was uncomfortable for quite a while with the idea of what my friends were keen to call "my stalker").

When I first started I was given what I think was good advice, and that was NOT to be the cheapest, as that would make me attractive to all the parents who were only interested in price and not value. It does often seem to be the parents driving about in their thirty grand plus cars who are prepared to argue about the cost of a cup of coffee, but I am often prepared to let them walk away, as I think it is not a good start to a relationship if they are looking for the upper hand from day one.

[shortstuff]

I advertise my rates as negotiable. It does get people thinking they have worked out a deal so we all win :-)

[LittleRhino]

With respect, negotiated fees are incredibly easy, and perfectly normal for the vast majority of self-employed traders who, like us, provide a bespoke service. I think a lot more CMs would do the same, and enjoy similar benefits, if they weren't railroaded into 'following the crowd' by DO's, trainers, CM groups, and introductory sessions from so-called LA "professionals" who haven't had an original idea in the past 30 years. :(

The only problem I've found is that too many parents looking for childcare will compare the ads on what is quantifiable: and that naturally tends to be a CM's advertised 'headline rate' fee. They take that for granted and frequently end up falling out with their CM over any additional charges.

With a negotiated fee, everything is remarkably simple cos it's all laid out nice and clear on each client's contract. I ask parents to look at their finances, consider the savings they may get from TCs or vouchers, then come to me with a figure they think is affordable to them and fair to ask me to take care of their precious lo. If they really struggle with that, I offer a 'guide price' and discuss things from there. I find I most often have to use the 'guide price' method with before/after school arrangements.

Before anyone says, "yes, but parents will compare and feel hard done by" - I make it perfectly clear to all clients that I work this way and that contracts are not comparable. No 2 families want the same thing. If Mum A wants to pay what Mum B is paying, I say I'll offer it to her: on exactly the same terms and times as Mum A's child is cared for. I also make it perfectly clear that my confidentiality policy cuts both ways. Parents who discuss contract terms with other parents may receive notice.

This has served several beneficial purposes:-

I don't have to bother with the sort of parents who only want to know "are you available and how much?" I get parents who look at the quality of care and not just the price tag. The sort of people who want the best they can afford (even if that's not much) rather than the cheapest they can get. The sort who care for their children and aren't just looking for somewhere to dump them until school will have them for free.

I've gained clients who I would have otherwise lost. eg. A family who didn't understand complex pricing, fees + 'extras', retainers, etc, etc. They said they really liked my setting and could they just pay me what they've being paying nursery. The nursery has a high basic fee, but they get 15 hours free during term time. So I lose on the swings of term-time and win on the roundabouts of holidays. Everything balances out and everyone is happy.

IIRC I only once turned away a mum who made me a derisory offer. She came for a visit, saw no reason to bring the child (!?!), and never even looked at my resources, children's artwork display, etc. She only wanted to talk about times and money, and offered me a little over £1ph because her ".....hair and beauty treatments were costing her over £70....." !!! :panic: (if I remember the figure correctly.) I told her it wasn't the money that bothered me - it was the fact that I knew I couldn't work with her if that was her set of priorities. (Door's over there, sweetheart........) :angry:

Some clients happily pay me above the local 'going rate' (ie. the local CM Mafia-couldn't-possibly-think-for-ourselves rate) and do so knowingly and happily. Do I take it all the fixed-fee CMs just wouldn't be interested in a £7.50ph client?

By the same token, I'm able to help out clients who can't possibly afford other local CMs cos I'll take a lower rate due to their circumstances. eg. Two lo's who've been in care and their adoptive parents are having to spend a fortune on building an extension for separate bedrooms. A young mum who needed a short-term contract to do a training course to get back into work, after her do-nothing partner (the dad) wound up being sent down. No other local CM would drop their carved-in-stone fee for a couple of months that enabled her to get her life back on track. It also allows me to offer very cheap one-off jobs for mums who need to see the local Women's Project for advice/counselling about domestic abuse. It allows me to get a lot of job-satisfaction :) from being some use to someone who needs it badly. It doesn't make me at all popular with local CMs and my awful DO, but it's exactly the sort of "flexibility" they are always banging on about, but aren't actually prepared to offer. :mad:


I think this is great I have one full time mindee at 10 months and my own little one at 3 years. I would love to get some more and I think this is a great way to help yourself and others and would definitely give me great job satisfaction. Good on you for not just running with the sheep and being your own person and running your business how you want too x