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Smileyface
15-05-2013, 08:49 PM
Hello guys can I look after my daughter who is 2 years my son who's 3 years and at nursery 3 hours every day... Plus 9 month minde and her brother who is also 3 and is at nursery with my son for the three hours every day?
Hope it makes sense
Kirsty

Mouse
15-05-2013, 08:56 PM
If you have 2 of your own pre-school children then you only have one more space, so can only take on one more child.

jellytots2912
15-05-2013, 09:23 PM
No not unless you took the 9 mth old first and then took the 3 yr old later on continuity of care of vice versa x

Smileyface
15-05-2013, 09:24 PM
How long could I have the sibling before takin on the other sibling?
Thank you?

Daftbat
16-05-2013, 06:49 AM
I am really pleased that this thread has come up. The other day I was at a toddler group and I mentioned that I had had an enquiry for a 7 month old for 3 days a weeks which would have been lovely to fill my space I have but I explained that I had to turn it down because I already have a 10 month old and so wouldn't have the space until July. The CM said "you can have 2 under 1 - the rules have changed and you could have 6 under 1 if you wanted!!!!!" Yes.......calm down everyone. :cool: I said this wasn't the case and that ignoring the last bit - I couldn't take on 2 under one for new business only if continuity of care or siblings etc etc. She seems to think that I am wrong. I wonder how many CM's are interpreting things in this way? One of the reasons that I just want things to stay the way they are re ratios is just because of this type of thing. I think the ability to do a variation ourselves for children we already care for is sensible - it enables us to give a parent a decision more quickly but otherwise we should just stay as we are. Another CM I come across occasionally has 5 under 5's on some days....... I have lots of experience and I still think it would be dangerous for me to do this not to mentioned completely exhausting:panic:

bunyip
16-05-2013, 08:11 AM
I am really pleased that this thread has come up. The other day I was at a toddler group and I mentioned that I had had an enquiry for a 7 month old for 3 days a weeks which would have been lovely to fill my space I have but I explained that I had to turn it down because I already have a 10 month old and so wouldn't have the space until July. The CM said "you can have 2 under 1 - the rules have changed and you could have 6 under 1 if you wanted!!!!!" Yes.......calm down everyone. :cool: I said this wasn't the case and that ignoring the last bit - I couldn't take on 2 under one for new business only if continuity of care or siblings etc etc. She seems to think that I am wrong. I wonder how many CM's are interpreting things in this way? One of the reasons that I just want things to stay the way they are re ratios is just because of this type of thing. I think the ability to do a variation ourselves for children we already care for is sensible - it enables us to give a parent a decision more quickly but otherwise we should just stay as we are. Another CM I come across occasionally has 5 under 5's on some days....... I have lots of experience and I still think it would be dangerous for me to do this not to mentioned completely exhausting:panic:

This issue has been rolling on since before the EYFS changes came into effect last September. Sadly, too many CMs don't seem to have taken the trouble to read EYFS and are merely following rumours. I know one in my local CM group who refuses to read EYFS 2012 until Ofsted or pacey give her a free printed copy :panic: . This isn't helped by the fact that some trainers and DO's don't seem to have read it properly - or at least started passing on 'information' before they fully understood the facts.

A few of us here said at the time (about a year back) that a lot of over-minding would ensue, and not be picked up on until Ofsted did an inspection or received a complaint. Some CMs will come a cropper, and quite frankly, they'll deserve it. :mad:

jackie 7
16-05-2013, 08:25 AM
A friend went to a local animal farm and there were loads of c ms with 5 mindees. Too many people think we can have as many as we want I have heard them say that as their cert has no numbers they can decide themselves.

Mouse
16-05-2013, 08:32 AM
This issue has been rolling on since before the EYFS changes came into effect last September. Sadly, too many CMs don't seem to have taken the trouble to read EYFS and are merely following rumours. I know one in my local CM group who refuses to read EYFS 2012 until Ofsted or pacey give her a free printed copy :panic: . This isn't helped by the fact that some trainers and DO's don't seem to have read it properly - or at least started passing on 'information' before they fully understood the facts.

A few of us here said at the time (about a year back) that a lot of over-minding would ensue, and not be picked up on until Ofsted did an inspection or received a complaint. Some CMs will come a cropper, and quite frankly, they'll deserve it. :mad:

I agree with that. I went to a meeting a while back where the DO told everyone that from Sept we could take on as many EY children as we liked as long as we risk assessed and kept within our 6 under 8. This was before MGC was actually published & was based purely on speculation :panic:

It's very worrying that there are so many interpretations of the rules, often by people who haven't read EYFS 2012 for themselves. I had a discussion at our childminding group with cms who were adamant all restrictions had been removed, so we could now do pretty much as we liked. They said that as our certificates show no conditions, we don't have any. I did point out that you had to read the certificate in conjunction with the EYFS requirements, but they were having none of it. One of them said "if an Ofsted inspector tell me I'm overminding I'll take great pleasure in waving my certificate in front of her face and saying show me where it says I can only have 3 Eys children"

I'm sure the Ofsted inspector would get just as much pleasure from pointing it out!

bunyip
16-05-2013, 08:38 AM
I agree with that. I went to a meeting a while back where the DO told everyone that from Sept we could take on as many EY children as we liked as long as we risk assessed and kept within our 6 under 8. This was before MGC was actually published & was based purely on speculation :panic:

It's very worrying that there are so many interpretations of the rules, often by people who haven't read EYFS 2012 for themselves. I had a discussion at our childminding group with cms who were adamant all restrictions had been removed, so we could now do pretty much as we liked. They said that as our certificates show no conditions, we don't have any. I did point out that you had to read the certificate in conjunction with the EYFS requirements, but they were having none of it. One of them said "if an Ofsted inspector tell me I'm overminding I'll take great pleasure in waving my certificate in front of her face and saying show me where it says I can only have 3 Eys children"

I'm sure the Ofsted inspector would get just as much pleasure from pointing it out!

I agree, Mouse. So their argument is, "I can do it unless my certificate says not." :mad:

My certificate doesn't say that I'm not allowed to provide overnight care, use children as sweatshop labour, or beat them for not working hard enough. Which means I can run a night-shift from now on. After all, those footballs aren't gonna stitch themselves. :rolleyes:

Honestly!?!

Mouse
16-05-2013, 09:09 AM
I agree, Mouse. So their argument is, "I can do it unless my certificate says not." :mad:

My certificate doesn't say that I'm not allowed to provide overnight care, use children as sweatshop labour, or beat them for not working hard enough. Which means I can run a night-shift from now on. After all, those footballs aren't gonna stitch themselves. :rolleyes:

Honestly!?!

They just don't see the double standards. They use their certificate as 'proof' they can do as they like, but fail to see that the certificate as 'proof' they have to work to the rules set out in the Statutory Framework, even though it specifically says that.

There seem to be so many people who genuinely don't understand the changes (or are unaware of them), but there seem to be a great many of chose to interpret them as they want to!

Mouse
16-05-2013, 09:12 AM
How long could I have the sibling before takin on the other sibling?
Thank you?

Sorry, Smileyface, we seem to have highjacked your thread!

If you decide to go down the sibling route, you have to decide for yourself how long to leave it before taking on the second child. It's not something I have every done, but it seems quite a common way of bending the rules.

k1rstie
16-05-2013, 11:58 AM
Had a similar conversation with a very experienced Outstanding minder the other day.

I said that I had had a enquiry for two children, but I only had one space. She looked a bit funny and said that I could take them both on as it would be continuity of care, siblings etc. she was completely baffled when I explained that was not what it meant.

I suppose taking a child on today while mum is on maternity leave knowing that you will take the new baby on in a month or two, although continuity of care should also not be allowed, as you are actually knowingly going to go to four children.

We are having a 'Provider Meeting' and the topic of ratios is going to be discussed, it will be very interesting!!!!!

Smileyface
16-05-2013, 09:36 PM
No problem I can see that it's not allowed and ill just stick to what I know!
Thank you everyone

littlemiss60561
16-05-2013, 11:18 PM
i had an enquiry for a child that wanted one day a week for a month and then 3 days from there on. but knowing before hand that this would take me over i said no (shines halo lol)
ive asked at meetings and the reply ofsted have been giving the DOs is "if thats what you think it means then thats what it means" how rubbish is that!

winstonian
17-05-2013, 06:36 AM
I have wondered (with my paranoid head on) if at some point there will be a huge overminding scandal and the Government will say"Right all cms need to be in agencies as they obviously cant manage themselves".