Advice please parent refusal to sign a couple of permission forms

[Tazmin68]

Hi

I have a child starting with me on Monday. Very last minute referral from outside agency. As entitled to 3 year old funding has to start this coming week to get funding for this term. My issue is parent has declined to giver permission for photo observations which obviously I will abide by and only complete written observations. Learning journey will look a bit boring but there we go. Parent has refused to sign my emergency procedure which would normally allow a back up person in an emergency having access to her contact details. She has also refused to sign the ncma medical emergency treatment form. Now I do know that in that situation a medical professional would make a decision if necessary in that event.

I have never had this as an issue before and would appreciate any advice.

Deb

[clareelizabeth1]

I would say ring OFSTED and your insurers as you might find you can't take them on if they don't sign certain things.

[Rick]

Hi

I have a child starting with me on Monday. Very last minute referral from outside agency. As entitled to 3 year old funding has to start this coming week to get funding for this term. My issue is parent has declined to giver permission for photo observations which obviously I will abide by and only complete written observations. Learning journey will look a bit boring but there we go. Parent has refused to sign my emergency procedure which would normally allow a back up person in an emergency having access to her contact details. She has also refused to sign the ncma medical emergency treatment form. Now I do know that in that situation a medical professional would make a decision if necessary in that event.

I have never had this as an issue before and would appreciate any advice.

Deb

Well I don't see how you can have the child if you can't operate as normal. Ofsted may query no photo evidence. What does parent expect you to do in an emergency, this seems very obstructive from parent. And what does parent expect you to do if emergency medical treatment is required?

Perhaps try and reason with parent and say no agreement to these essential points will seriously hinder you doing your job.

[supermumy]

Get it in writing that she doesn't want to sign these things?
Maybe tell her what exactly photos for obs are for and they would be used anyway else?
have you asked why she is against these things
As for medical if time came hospital would take over anyway but ofsted does require this I be signed so I would ring and seek advice

[rickysmiths]

There is no problem with no photos though if you talk to the mum it may mean photos where the child can be identified so ones taken from behind or at an angle where you can't see the face may be fine. You may have to ok any taken with the mum as well. This id a common request if someone is on witness protection or something similar.

You don't need permission for emergency care anymore, read EYFS, it is meaningless anyway because as you say with a child the Paramedic or hospital would take over anyway.

The Emergency Plan and getting another person to care for the child may be an anonymity issue like the photos. I would speak to the mum and see if there is someone she could use in an emergency who would get to you quicker than she could.

[FussyElmo]

If they don't sign my permissions they don't get a contract. My permissions enable me to work to the best of my ability :thumbsup:

I would concede on the photographs though :)

[rickysmiths]

Get it in writing that she doesn't want to sign these things?
Maybe tell her what exactly photos for obs are for and they would be used anyway else?
have you asked why she is against these things
As for medical if time came hospital would take over anyway but ofsted does require this I be signed so I would ring and seek advice



No it does not since Sept 2012 Look in EYFS. it was a meaningless requirement anyway which they saw sense and removed.

[hectors house]

Is this child a jehova witness maybe this is why they don't want to sign for hospital treatment (although as Mouse has already said - we don't need permission now anyway), but if a Jehova witness you may need to get parent to sign something saying that they refuse hospital treatment? It may be that as they don't want photos taken either that they don't want to leave a paper trail - as Rickysmith suggested if on a witness protection programme.

[Mouse]

The photos bit is easy. If parents don't give permission, then don't take photos. You have to be a bit creative in group shots to make sure the child is cut out of them! It seems a shame for parents not to see pictures of their child, but there may be very good reason why they don't want photos taken.

Again, there could be a very good reason why she is wary of anyone but you having her contact details. If there is another agency involved, would she be happy for their number rather than her's to be given if there was an emergency?

As far as I know it's no longer a requirement to get permission for emergency medical treatment & advice, so you wouldn't be doing anything wrong by not having that signed. In an emergency I don't think you'd have any choice, whether or not the permission was signed. The doctors would take over regardless. I think there is a difference in her not signing to say she gives permission and in her telling you outright that she doesn't want you to seek treatment or advice. If it's just the first I think you're probably OK, but if it's the second it would be more of a problem. I'd check with your insurance company to be completely sure.

[Tazmin68]

It is the first time child will have left mom. There is already social services, pre school learning alliance, family support worker, early support and drugs referral worker involved and I mom is very wary about another person myself now coming into the fold. Child was entitled to 3 year old funding in January and it had taken until now for mom to agree combined with baby due in the next two weeks. I will talk to mom when she brings child on Monday and explain the forms to her agin and try to put her at ease and get what I can signed.

[Tealady]

You may be able to take photos of the child's end product i.e. a tower he/she built, the cakes he/she decorated and named the colours of the icing etc.

Also, review your permissions in 6 months time. I have found that once parents get to know me they change their minds.

[supermumy]

My bad only just before sept I got marked down for not having a parent sign my emergency form but as you say it has changed!

[supermumy]

It is the first time child will have left mom. There is already social services, pre school learning alliance, family support worker, early support and drugs referral worker involved and I mom is very wary about another person myself now coming into the fold. Child was entitled to 3 year old funding in January and it had taken until now for mom to agree combined with baby due in the next two weeks. I will talk to mom when she brings child on Monday and explain the forms to her agin and try to put her at ease and get what I can signed.

Wow if she has all these involved the poor woman is probably confused and scared of now a new person taking her child
Maybe she thinks the photos will be used against her etc

[sarah707]

Photos - fair enough. Ask about back views... or child holding a picture so you get their hands.

Emergency medical blah blah... not needed but look at your emergency policy and check how that is worded because you still need emergency contacts and info about religious requirements etc.

Giving emergency details to your emergency back up person if you are injured or cannot care for the child - in my mind absolutely essential!!

I think you need another meeting with parents. They have to trust you - or you are heading for problems.

Hth :D

[wendywu]

It is the first time child will have left mom. There is already social services, pre school learning alliance, family support worker, early support and drugs referral worker involved and I mom is very wary about another person myself now coming into the fold. Child was entitled to 3 year old funding in January and it had taken until now for mom to agree combined with baby due in the next two weeks. I will talk to mom when she brings child on Monday and explain the forms to her agin and try to put her at ease and get what I can signed.


Sounds like trouble in the making, if she will not sign the permission forms for your emergency back up then i would not give her a contract. You have to have a working relationship and she does not seem to understand this.:(

[lisbet]

[/COLOR]


No it does not since Sept 2012 Look in EYFS. it was a meaningless requirement anyway which they saw sense and removed.

Ah...I thought that was the case, but my DO said I needed it and it is all over the NCMA paperwork I have! :rolleyes:

[loocyloo]

i presume that you are also in contact with the family support worker? if so, does s/he have a good relationship with mum? can they come with mum to another meeting with you to support mum whilst you explain that you have to have emergency contact details, and that they will ONLY be looked at by anyone else if there is an emergency that means you have to be elsewhere. my emergency contact details for all children are in a sealed envelope that has a green cross on it and says 'in case of emergency' and is on the notice board for any one entering my house to find.

i agree with mouse - is there another agency who she would be happy for you to put as emergency contact for anyone else to see.


good luck, sounds like mum needs alot of reassurance and support, and a childminder is well placed to be a reassuring support in the background, and telling her what a wonderful job she is doing as a mum. ( i have had several 2 yr old funded children and it is a case of supporting the whole family, as much as the child )

xxx

[Helen79]

I wouldn't push for photo permissions and wouldn't mention it again to mum just at the minute, it sounds like she's got a lot on and probably doesn't need another thing to think about. She's obviously got her reasons and has the right to refuse whether ofsted agree or not.

I don't have an emergency back up so this wouldn't be an issue for me. I can understand why she might not want you to give her details out to anyone else so I would give the social workers or support worker's number to your back up minder.

[Tazmin68]

All sorted out. Sat down with mom and explained reasons for written observations and agreed photo observations in learning journey and only mom, child and myself will see those. Explained that I needs her phone number for emergency and also emergency back up person to have access to her number and have agreed that my husband could call her in emergency and that I will not give number to my emergency back up childminder. We got there in the end.

[shortstuff]

Im so glad you managed to get it sorted out x

[caz3007]

I am so glad you were able to work something out that you were both happy with

[sarah707]

I am pleased you have worked it out with the mum xx

Just to add a note for those members who have been messaging me about the requirements re emergency contacts and my comments earlier in this thread...

It is a requirement of the Childcare Register 2012 as follows -

Childcare Register requirement CR 6.1 - Childminders must make arrangements with other childcare providers or with parents for occasions on which the registered person is not able to provide childcare.

This includes both planned and emergency occasions.

Thank you :D

[dawn100]

Am I misreading the childcare register? But to me it says we have to make arrangements with other childcare provider or parents. So I don't read that to mean we have to provide cover?

I was recently questioned by ofsted if I arranged alternative care when I was not available I told them no parent was more than happy to sort for themselves and that I carry essential info cards for emergencies with me everywhere and they would be passed onto a suitable person as opposed just putting down two names and giving them the info as both might be unavaible in an emergency, ofsted were more than happy with this in fact I got the idea from the inspector who did my pre reg visit.

[supermumy]

Am I misreading the childcare register? But to me it says we have to make arrangements with other childcare provider or parents. So I don't read that to mean we have to provide cover?

I was recently questioned by ofsted if I arranged alternative care when I was not available I told them no parent was more than happy to sort for themselves and that I carry essential info cards for emergencies with me everywhere and they would be passed onto a suitable person as opposed just putting down two names and giving them the info as both might be unavaible in an emergency, ofsted were more than happy with this in fact I got the idea from the inspector who did my pre reg visit.

I agree I don't have any cover in a emergency also I don't know many childminders that i wiuld leave them with anyway and most of my parents wouldn't be happy with me leaving them withsomeone else either
I have contacts numbers for parents etc as you do anyway