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natalieatk
10-05-2013, 12:58 PM
Did anyone watch this!!


Basically they are debating weather cm's should either keep the ratio 1:4 or increase to 1:6

Lots phoning in saying cm's are just greedy basically and the care will decrease! And increasing to 1:6 cm's will just rake the money in and not reduce fees, and we don't care about children necessary its the money were after!
Furious!!

We work for £3.70 per hour!!! How can this be reduced any more!!! I agree you should still only be allowed 1 baby under 12 months but the increase on toddlers could increase, not for theory but to be more helpful to the parents! Childminders are becoming more popular to nurseries for the 1/1 care etc so how can we reduce out fees more!!
Rang over lol does anyone else agree ??

Twinkling Stars
10-05-2013, 01:22 PM
Shame i missed it. :-( Some people have no clue!

Koala
10-05-2013, 01:27 PM
I think childminders are best placed to raise the ratio of children because:
We are able to say yes or no to the amount of children we want to look after (and we all know some children are less difficult than others!)
We know our children very well, continuity of care and all that.
We know which children can come on board over our current ratio and it wouldn't be a problem.
We know which children would be unable to cope with a higher ratio and which children we would be unable to cope with in a higher ratio.
It's all about good judgement.

Nurseries on the other hand:
workers do not have the luxury of stating how many children they can care for.
Workers do not always know their children very well, there seems to be a high turnover of staff in some cases, changing rooms, off sick, holidays, lack of continuity of care and all that.
Workers would be unable to say which child they would be able to care for (this is not discrimination, it's simply meeting the varying needs of individual children and the varying abilities of the worker)

I can understand where folk think greed comes in to it, because they have NO! idea of the logistics of childminding they only see for example: 6 children at £3.70 per hour £22.20 per hour clear profit - LITTLE do they know.

AliceK
10-05-2013, 01:34 PM
I was asked yesterday by someone who should know better!!!! whether I agreed with increasing the number of children we can care for. I said No, I do not think it should increase. This person asked why not. I replied however good our intentions are we cannot offer the same level of care to more children, we still only have 1 pair of hands and 1set of eyes and how can we offer the same level of care and development to each child if we had more. This person replied, yes but you don't have to do all that teaching with them do you, that's for when they get to school!!!! Now this person should know better and back tracked rather quickly when they received one of my "looks" and was told maybe they should rephrase what they had just said. People have no idea of exactly what our job entails. They just think we sit around drinking tea and watching TV whilst the children get on with things. Oh yes and we are all rolling in money.

Anyway, no I don't think we should automatically have the ratio increased to 1:6, some of us would think very long and hard about whether we could or should take on more children and how it might impact on the other children but I'm afraid we all know others who would just see it as a way to make more money and childrens outcomes would decline.

xxxx

munch149
10-05-2013, 01:45 PM
I don't think it should be increased either as care will decrease and some childminders will take it as a chance to make more money. I wouldn't reduce fees if I took on more tho. Not out of greed but purely because I would be working a lot harder so surely I deserve to be paid more. Why would I want to work harder for the same money and no one in any other job would want to either. If It changes I think I personally would try and keep things the same and use this as a selling point to children. Unfortunately everyone else does lower there fees this might mean I have huge difficulty getting work. An amazingly high number of parents will look at price over quality of care

Petshrinklj
10-05-2013, 02:11 PM
Oh dear. Did anyone defend the cms? Or did any cm phone in and say that wasn't true? I can't imagine anyone going into cm thinting they could be greedy. I'm in process of registering and From what i was told on the intro course i need to spend almost 1k on courses, medical , insurance etc. then I'm not sure how long it'd be before I'd get any mindees. Doesn't seem a route to easy money to me.

Ripeberry
10-05-2013, 03:18 PM
But then if a CM did ring in they would say that we were not working and phoning in whilst the mindees were having a nap. Don't you know that we are supposed to just sit there waiting for them to wake up? :rolleyes: More likely the person who rang in to rant about CMs rolling around in money does not use one, so they have no reason to berate us.

serin
10-05-2013, 03:37 PM
I have two 1 1/2 year olds and a 4 year old after school. While I seem overworked because of the little ones I am very much not. I dont think you can judge it on ratio. It all depends on how well behaved the children are. I think it should be the judgement of the childminder. I have a childminder friend with 3 challenging children. Jealousy, hitting, throwing, running around and never listen to orders. None of my mindees have these problems. 1:6 ratio I say yes why not...

rollypolly
10-05-2013, 03:50 PM
I watch this this morning, and feel so cross! We are not all about money and profit! I love my job and will not be increasing my ratio, as I feel I couldn't provide the care and attention the mindees all receive now! Sorry rant over xx

natalieatk
10-05-2013, 03:55 PM
I think they should increase but you should be able to provide the same amount of care ! More children does not mean less care because it does depend in how behaved my the children are! I wouldn't take on more than one baby as that's just to hard but toddlers are fun! And do listen most of the time! Once their in a routine etc i have 4 toddlers mon - wed and I enjoy these days ! They play well we paint and bake etc and it isn't stressful! They all get the same care!

natalieatk
10-05-2013, 03:57 PM
And I wouldn't be prepared to lower my prices! Work harder for less money! Don't think so!! My £30 a day inc food is miles less that local nursery at £45 a day ! You get more care with a cm!!

TooEarlyForGin?
10-05-2013, 04:34 PM
What no one seems to take into account, is that many of us are rarely full all of the time and due to that we have to adjust our rates to allow for this. I have 7 part timers and some after school children, some days I have 4 (continuity of care), and 2-3 after schoolies which is then really profitable, but for the majority of the week I have 2 and today only 1. All through winter I have still had to heat and light my house, which costs the same whether its 1 or 4, and we all know what a cold hard winter it's been. During my 10 years of childminding I have only ever had 1 full timer. If I could guarantee 3/4 full timers 5 days a week, then I might consider being very slightly cheaper, although not by much.

It also seems to be forgotten, we pay all our own insurances, equipment, most of our training, fuel, food, which have all substantially gone up over the last few years, whereas I have only raised my fee once in 3 years by 25p per hour. I don't charge for my holidays or when I am not available, which all needs to be taken into account.

It is getting very frustrating that they are trying to hit some of the most poorly paid workers in this country, as nursery staff are no better off than us.

Never mind the poor parents who have to pay us.... Who if they are struggling get help with their childcare, another issue, as we cannot claim for spaces our own children take up. And lets face it they will only need to pay for a few years overall, and then the money is theirs again, whereas we are still stuck on low wages.

And to finish ........ WE ARE WORTH IT, WE ARE TAKING CARE OF THE MOST PRECIOUS POSSESSION EVER. Cleaners around here are getting £15 ph.

I will now get off my soap box.............

pipandbaz
10-05-2013, 05:46 PM
What no one seems to take into account, is that many of us are rarely full all of the time and due to that we have to adjust our rates to allow for this. I have 7 part timers and some after school children, some days I have 4 (continuity of care), and 2-3 after schoolies which is then really profitable, but for the majority of the week I have 2 and today only 1. All through winter I have still had to heat and light my house, which costs the same whether its 1 or 4, and we all know what a cold hard winter it's been. During my 10 years of childminding I have only ever had 1 full timer. If I could guarantee 3/4 full timers 5 days a week, then I might consider being very slightly cheaper, although not by much.

It also seems to be forgotten, we pay all our own insurances, equipment, most of our training, fuel, food, which have all substantially gone up over the last few years, whereas I have only raised my fee once in 3 years by 25p per hour. I don't charge for my holidays or when I am not available, which all needs to be taken into account.

It is getting very frustrating that they are trying to hit some of the most poorly paid workers in this country, as nursery staff are no better off than us.

Never mind the poor parents who have to pay us.... Who if they are struggling get help with their childcare, another issue, as we cannot claim for spaces our own children take up. And lets face it they will only need to pay for a few years overall, and then the money is theirs again, whereas we are still stuck on low wages.

And to finish ........ WE ARE WORTH IT, WE ARE TAKING CARE OF THE MOST PRECIOUS POSSESSION EVER. Cleaners around here are getting £15 ph.

I will now get off my soap box.............

Exactly ...it costs more to board a dog in kennels

hectors house
10-05-2013, 05:50 PM
Should have known that childminders wouldn't get a fair hearing on Wright Show - he hasn't got children and is very anti contributing towards people who choose to!

I charge £3.75 an hour and have 3 children most days - however although I am available from 8 - 5.30 hardly anyone uses the whole day although I do have a minimum of 7 hours a day policy - so for 7 hours a day I have 3 children, plus a few extra hours with one child at start or end of the day.

When I calculated my income last year for my tax return, then deducted my expenses (nearly 50% of income) I was left with a :censored: amount, then just to really rub salt into the wound I worked out how many extra hours I work without being paid for it (cleaning, cooking, shopping, planning, writing up observations, doing 2 year checks and meeting up with parents to discuss, evening & weekend training courses, etc, etc) and my hourly rate dropped to just under £3.75 an hour!

I have had my 10 week old grandson today, plus a 14 month old plus a nearly 3 year old - I have had to juggle feeds, naps, meals just so each child got some one to one time - some days I do have 4 children but it depends entirely on the ages and needs of the children, I couldn't have juggled any faster today to fit in another one, even if it did mean another £30.

Optimalstar
10-05-2013, 06:11 PM
I have two 1 1/2 year olds and a 4 year old after school. While I seem overworked because of the little ones I am very much not. I dont think you can judge it on ratio. It all depends on how well behaved the children are. I think it should be the judgement of the childminder. I have a childminder friend with 3 challenging children. Jealousy, hitting, throwing, running around and never listen to orders. None of my mindees have these problems. 1:6 ratio I say yes why not...

Not everyone thinks like you. Some people will think about the money as childcare is NOT a vocation to them but just a means to make money. This has the potential to damage everyone. People will see and remember the worst not best cases/scenarios and thus we'll all be tarred with the same brush. I'm working hard to build up a good reputation of quality care and I don't plan to exceed the guidelines as set right now, 3 under 5 years except for exceptional circumstances of continuity of care. I think the general public very much misunderstand the role of the childminder as it is.

MessybutHappy
10-05-2013, 06:40 PM
To sum it up, one of my self employed parents earns in one hour what I charge her for a full day (and she still complains). We probably have similar overheads and outgoings.

(I know this because she also provides a service & charges at an hourly rate, & all the info is on her website).

hectors house
10-05-2013, 09:02 PM
To sum it up, one of my self employed parents earns in one hour what I charge her for a full day (and she still complains). We probably have similar overheads and outgoings.

(I know this because she also provides a service & charges at an hourly rate, & all the info is on her website).

I can relate to this, I once looked after my Oestopath's son for a morning - 5 hours for less than £20, whereas she charges me £38 for 30 mins! 20 times an hour more than me!

lubeam
10-05-2013, 09:23 PM
I watched this and the First Lady that called in tried to fight our corner n Ann the lady on the panel tried but the men's opinion was not changed ( I say men not in a bad way just because I don't no there names :) )
They clearly didn't have children or if the did where the kind of ppl that produced a child and thought that was there bit done !!! :(
I did text in but wasn't mentioned , no surprise , I hate how it's so black and white in there eyes , here's extra kids so ill get 25% more n then reduce costs too everyone wins - ok mate you look after 6 kids 12 hours a day for less then minimum wage ( when you take out time for planning writing things up cooking cleaning etc etc ) and if you live to see the week out we'll talk !!!!! What a **** !!!!

littlemiss60561
10-05-2013, 11:51 PM
I've just watched it on catch up TV and I was shouting at the tele!. I do like the show and felt he was tongue in cheek and admits childcare is the last job he could do. His job is to stir it up isnt it. They admitted they didn't know what it entails. They found looking after one a real challenge and dont know how we do it with 4 let alone 6. One of the guys asked is there paperwork/ ofsted regs etc for cms so clearly uninformed. Sadly. Had they have been informed I'd like t think they would have a completely different view!. And something like " would getting rid of the burden of ofsted regs and paperwork make you want to take on 6 " the caller said yes. I shouted no, along with hundreds of others I'm sure! Slight smell of agency there! One pair of hands, 6 children, degree certificate on the wall or not, kitchen fire. Nuff said.

For those on their that said yes to 1-6 ! i believe think we are glorified babysitters and not professional cms. I've had 5 for a couple of hours a few times. (3-4 yrs and pretty self sufficient in basic needs) and it was fine.continuity of care. i coped. We had a lovely time.im sure many would cope. Would I do it again if needed? Yes probably. Full time?? No way! The debate should not have been about will we cope as they do in other countries ( which is biased as i dont think assistents were included in their stats?) teachers cope with 30 ( not easy, but secure building,TAs, 1-1 INAs ,threat of the head teachers office, no school / nursery pick ups , 4 and 5 yrs old not 2....) . If it was all about just coping we could be having a field day!
Although an actual day in an actual field as a cm with 6, ensuring 7 pairs of feet dodge the dog poo, don't fall in the stream, keep safe from a group of dogs sniffing around off leads, stinging nettles and dangerous berries . And that's once you actually get them to the field! How often do you get 7 seats together on a bus?i don't drive. And a route that takes you door to door? Not all of us have space for 6 car seats.2 holding your hand and 4 on reigns long enough to walk close to you?? The words husky and dogs spring to mind! Maybe ill buy a sledge?? Could be fun! And not forgetting the potential medical emergency that we all hope won't happen.. I'm knackered and stressed just thinking about it!

So .. no field trip!! We will sit them in the safety of our houses , maybe even the garden, and teach them about the wonders of nature through a book and our resources. Fine, maybe. But I'd rather mine experienced the real outside aswell thanks. Perks of the job?! And...that's just the field! We go all over the place several times a week! Drop ins! Could you imagine?
As for reducing my fees... They would probably have to go up to cover the cost of the quadruple buggy I would need and all the other bits, let alone the Valium!
But.. I don't have a degree so I couldn't even attempt to cope.Even if I wanted too..

lubeam
11-05-2013, 01:15 AM
I've just watched it on catch up TV and I was shouting at the tele!. I do like the show and felt he was tongue in cheek and admits childcare is the last job he could do. His job is to stir it up isnt it. They admitted they didn't know what it entails. They found looking after one a real challenge and dont know how we do it with 4 let alone 6. One of the guys asked is there paperwork/ ofsted regs etc for cms so clearly uninformed. Sadly. Had they have been informed I'd like t think they would have a completely different view!. And something like " would getting rid of the burden of ofsted regs and paperwork make you want to take on 6 " the caller said yes. I shouted no, along with hundreds of others I'm sure! Slight smell of agency there! One pair of hands, 6 children, degree certificate on the wall or not, kitchen fire. Nuff said.

For those on their that said yes to 1-6 ! i believe think we are glorified babysitters and not professional cms. I've had 5 for a couple of hours a few times. (3-4 yrs and pretty self sufficient in basic needs) and it was fine.continuity of care. i coped. We had a lovely time.im sure many would cope. Would I do it again if needed? Yes probably. Full time?? No way! The debate should not have been about will we cope as they do in other countries ( which is biased as i dont think assistents were included in their stats?) teachers cope with 30 ( not easy, but secure building,TAs, 1-1 INAs ,threat of the head teachers office, no school / nursery pick ups , 4 and 5 yrs old not 2....) . If it was all about just coping we could be having a field day!
Although an actual day in an actual field as a cm with 6, ensuring 7 pairs of feet dodge the dog poo, don't fall in the stream, keep safe from a group of dogs sniffing around off leads, stinging nettles and dangerous berries . And that's once you actually get them to the field! How often do you get 7 seats together on a bus?i don't drive. And a route that takes you door to door? Not all of us have space for 6 car seats.2 holding your hand and 4 on reigns long enough to walk close to you?? The words husky and dogs spring to mind! Maybe ill buy a sledge?? Could be fun! And not forgetting the potential medical emergency that we all hope won't happen.. I'm knackered and stressed just thinking about it!

So .. no field trip!! We will sit them in the safety of our houses , maybe even the garden, and teach them about the wonders of nature through a book and our resources. Fine, maybe. But I'd rather mine experienced the real outside aswell thanks. Perks of the job?! And...that's just the field! We go all over the place several times a week! Drop ins! Could you imagine?
As for reducing my fees... They would probably have to go up to cover the cost of the quadruple buggy I would need and all the other bits, let alone the Valium!
But.. I don't have a degree so I couldn't even attempt to cope.Even if I wanted too..

COMPLETELY agree !!!! No like on phones but super mega like !!! Lol

nikki thomson
11-05-2013, 06:59 AM
Cm is very different to a nursery environment, most parents choose cm over nurserys as there much smaller numbers of children, ie there child will get more attention, also alot of parents don't like to think there child will be stuck in one room for most of the day whereas with a cm especially one like me who goes out most days, takes mindees swimming, to the farm, park, toddler grouos etc, that's why they choose a cm, there children get variety of life, and a cm with 6+ small children is going to be virtually house bound if she's on her own I just don't think it's practical.

watgem
11-05-2013, 12:11 PM
I have a degree but there is no way I could or would want to care for more than 3 under 5 on a permanent basis as the one over-riding thing that I learnt from my degree is that unless children's physical, emotional and attachment well being is high ie from care from an adult who has the time and ability to be responsive to all their needs, their ability to learn and develop may be negativiely affected. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how well qualified a practitioner is they only have one pair of hands. Comparing cms with teachers is not appropriate as teachers mainly educate, and the children are aged 4 years and above and are relatively independent whereas cm's care for and educate children from birth