Ratios - URGENT Thurs 9.5

[sarah707]

I want to reflect the views of you guys - not just my own - so please give me your thoughts about these hot topics -

- Ratios in England are the tightest in Europe

- Parents want lower childcare costs

- Ratios changes are not compulsory

I am on BBC - Radio 5 live - Home (http://www.bbc.co.uk/5live/) later and I really want to include your comments if possible.

Thanks guys! :cheerleader:

[The Juggler]

I want to reflect the views of you guys - not just my own - so please give me your thoughts about these hot topics -

- Ratios in England are the tightest in Europefor good reasons. quality and safeguarding. yes scandinavia and france might have great group daycare but not sure I like the idea that home care in france for example can allow up to 6 preschoolers. I know that I struggle to the give the quality I would like to give (although I push myself to the limits) with 4 under 5 and would NOT go back to it again except for occasional and short term arrangements.

- Parents want lower childcare costs
I understand that. The only way that is can be feasible is with government subsidies - either to settings or parents - such as childtax credits for low and middle income parents - especially single parents earning a decent salary (40K plus). Most people are losing or having these reduced but then they are introducing a scheme in 2014 for all parents even those earning up to £300k jointly - those who really don't need it - when they could increase the amount being given to poorer (returning to work parents in low income jobs) and middle income earners. Reducing costs MUST NOT be done by cutting spending in settings and thereby reducing quality of both staff and resources. Truss wants better paid staff and higher qualified staff - where will the money for this come from without actually INCREASING costs to parents - the Government have to consider grants for this - as the GLF previously.

- Ratios changes are not compulsory
They should be banned :D other than for variations - as now.

I am on BBC - Radio 5 live - Home (http://www.bbc.co.uk/5live/) later and I really want to include your comments if possible.

Thanks guys! :cheerleader:

what time are you on! wow!

ok my thoughts above. good luck for later - not that you'll need it x

[lisbet]

I can't remember where I read it, but the ratio comparison with other countries doesn't completely stack up - ie in one of the other countries they did not include the 'assistants' in the figures so in practice they are not disimiliar to ours.

And UK rated higher for quality of early years provision than France - can't remember source for that one either :o

Parents don't want lower costs at the expense of their child's safety and happiness. And where is the evidence that it will reduce costs?!



Got to go to school, but can try and find sources for above when I get back? When are you on? Good Luck! x :cheerleader:

[rosebud]

Its very simple - you can have quality childcare (with lots of adult interaction, stimulating activities and quality resources) OR you can have cheap childcare. YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH! If government want to decrease the cost to parents they need to subsidise the cost of childcare.

Increasing ratios will not have any affect on the cost of childcare other than in non-profit making settings such as sure-start / LA nurseries which are already cheaper because they're subsidised.

[Mouse]

Ratios in England are the tightest in Europe As far as I know, not all like-for-like statistics show that. I have followed the FB page of an american childminder who cares for 6 children at a time. The children all look happy, they all look safe. But, they are often strapped into high chairs for activities, or all sat at a table doing the same activity. There seems little scope for individual choice. Although I often have 4 EYs children, they can all do their own thing. I can supervise them all at once. With 6, I would imagine you have to have them doing the same activity all the time. One person couldn't fully supervise 6 free-playing toddlers. That's not my idea of home from home childcare.

- Parents want lower childcare costs If I was to take on extra children with more work, more resources to buy etc, I'm not going to do it for less money. My parents know my charges compare very favourably to the costs of a nursery, plus I offer flexibility, a home setting etc. They really aren't looking for me to reduce my fees. They know I'm worth every penny!

- Ratios changes are not compulsory If our LA is anything to go by, there is going to be a big shortage of childcare places for the funded 2yr olds. How many cms will be 'encouraged' by their LA to take on maximum numbers of 2yr olds, even if they don't really want to. How many cms will see the £ signs that come with being full to the max with funded 2yr olds (in our LA it's a much higher rate)


​Good luck Sarah!

[FussyElmo]

The reason for the ratios is safety. And it gives tbe children the freedom to learn. Children need space to grow not be little robots in a production line.

Cheaper childcare - we hear the excuses but its this government who had reduced the childcare element for people using tax credits. The voucher scheme thats replacing the system in place will make it unavailable to some and parents will be worse off well mine will.

[rosebud]

Its very simple - you can have quality childcare (with lots of adult interaction, stimulating activities and quality resources) OR you can have cheap childcare. YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH! If government want to decrease the cost to parents they need to subsidise the cost of childcare.

Increasing ratios will not have any affect on the cost of childcare other than in non-profit making settings such as sure-start / LA nurseries which are already cheaper because they're subsidised.

Also; my view is that the proposal to increase ratios is nothing to do with decreasing the cost of childcare or increasing staff wages, I believe that this is just a ploy to make it more appealing to the wider public. I believe that the reason is to create more childcare places in preparation for providing funded places for eligible 2 year olds in September - in some areas there are currently not enough places available for the numbers of children who will qualify. By amending the 2 year old ratio from 1:4 to 1:6 Ms Truss will create a third more places.

This gives no thought to the fact that the very vulnerable 2 year olds who will be eligible for the scheme will need high levels of adult interaction if we are to "close the gap" as planned between them and those from working families in time for them to start school.

[WibbleWobble]

i think an idiot (and by gum i am a bonefide idiot) can see more children equals less safety and less quality.

But i would love to know how Truss woman has come to the conclusion increasing ratios will make childcare cheaper? Who has told her this and how do they work that one out? I really would like that person to step up to the plate and explain their totally misguided theory......



will you be putting on your posh accent sarah? i have a posh phone accent....very cheshire yah!



wibble the :mad:

[MessybutHappy]

If you pay peanuts...well, we all know what we'll get!
Anything good COSTS. End of story.

I think you should make the comparison with our hourly rates and those of the dog walkers!

And no, I don't change my pricing structure every time I take on a new child or loose one. I don't buy in bulk so I can offer my service at a reduced amount. I don't offer a loss leader so I get people in the door and hope they buy more. I work my socks off to provide a top quality SERVICE that is consistent no matter if I have a full register or spaces to be filled, so stop asking me to run a production line style setting...these children are our future!!!

[Mouse]

i think an idiot (and by gum i am a bonefide idiot) can see more children equals less safety and less quality.

But i would love to know how Truss woman has come to the conclusion increasing ratios will make childcare cheaper? Who has told her this and how do they work that one out? I really would like that person to step up to the plate and explain their totally misguided theory......



will you be putting on your posh accent sarah? i have a posh phone accent....very cheshire yah!



wibble the :mad:

I guess they view it in simple terms. If a cm charges £30 a day, with 3 children that's £90. If they could have 4 children they'd only need to charge £22.50 a day to still make £90. It seems so straight forward, doesn't it :rolleyes: Forget the extra food you'd have to provide, the extra work you have to do, the extra time you spend on paperwork etc. Of course we're all happy to work harder for no extra pay :panic:

[sarah707]

Well I've done it! Did you hear me? :laughing:

Thank you all for giving your views and sharing ideas for discussion.

I was on at about 5.40pm along with Neil Leitch from PLA.

I managed to get in quite a few good points about what we don't want to happen - and I mentioned the Forum petition! :cheerleader:

[Rick]

Well I've done it! Did you hear me? :laughing:

Thank you all for giving your views and sharing ideas for discussion.

I was on at about 5.40pm along with Neil Leitch from PLA.

I managed to get in quite a few good points about what we don't want to happen - and I mentioned the Forum petition! :cheerleader:

Well done Sarah and thanks for your time to do this.

Any idea if we can hear it again somewhere?

[MessybutHappy]

Bum, I thought the 9.5 in your thread title meant half nine!!! It's todays date though isn't it!!! Ah well, feel better for a vent. Can we get you on playback?

[WibbleWobble]

I guess they view it in simple terms. If a cm charges £30 a day, with 3 children that's £90. If they could have 4 children they'd only need to charge £22.50 a day to still make £90. It seems so straight forward, doesn't it :rolleyes: Forget the extra food you'd have to provide, the extra work you have to do, the extra time you spend on paperwork etc. Of course we're all happy to work harder for no extra pay :panic:


but i want to know who has said this will happen? are there childminders and nurseries who have said they will charge less? i want them to say it......i want Truss to tell me where she has got this info and how the numbers were crunched. I want to sit infront of her and ask explain what her reasonings are....

this all makes me feel like i did when i was going through a messy divorce.....i was exasperated by my ex husbands stupidity and i have the same feelings now....

wibble the exasperated x

[loocyloo]

well done sarah ... typically all my parents chose that moment to arrive and chat !!!

can we listen back?

i feel as if i am bashing my head against a brick wall and am so frustrated.

[Simona]

The silly thing about all this is that the ratio cannot be implemented until the qualifications kick in in 2014 (see transcript of debate I posted in the other forum) and then it will be two years before anyone gets that qualification...so we are taking 2016?
by that time there will also be a general election and hope all will vote to get them out!!! political I know but they are making childcare a very political issue nothing to do with More Great Childcare!!!

[sarah707]

I am not technical enough to work out the podcasts - I have asked my partner to look at it for me.

If I find it I will let you know! I'd like to listen again for my own CPD.

My only motivation is to stop this damaging our children - they can't speak up so we need to do it on their behalf.

Thanks for your support guys - some of your lovely messages are making me smile and some are bringing a tear xx

[Stapleton83]

Thanks Sarah for taking the time to represent not just the little people in our lives who can't speak for themselves but those of us who feel strongly about it but are struggling to be heard. Your hard work and dedication is inspirational. Keep up the fantastic work.

Sam x

[sarah707]

From my friend Lucy - my technical friend :laughing:

BBC Radio 5 live - 5 live Drive, 09/05/2013 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s9lh8)

From 1:36:12

What do you think Wibble? Posh enough for you? :D

[Rick]

From my friend Lucy - my technical friend :laughing:

BBC Radio 5 live - 5 live Drive, 09/05/2013 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s9lh8)

From 1:36:12

What do you think Wibble? Posh enough for you? :D

Sounded posh enough for me :laughing:

You did well Sarah and even got the Childminding Forum a mention :thumbsup:

[Stapleton83]

Just listened to you on the podcast well done Sarah I thought you put across our views really well!

Sam x

[Simona]

I can't find where to click!!! HELP !

[SJ35]

I have just listened too and you did really well Sarah!
Thanks so much for all of your hard work x

[Rick]

I can't find where to click!!! HELP !

Should work if you click on the link and go to time 1:36:12 by dragging the time bar

[Simona]

Found it... thanks to Sarah's guidance
Who was the very annoying and forever interrupting interviewer who obviously knew as much about childcare as I know about space travel???

Well done though...we need more !

[hectors house]

Thank you Sarah for speaking so well on our behalf and well done for so staying calm - have you any other media appearances or interviews lined up?

[k1rstie]

Well done Sarah, I heard you on the 8.00 radio 2 news.

At least now it's being spoken about!

[Pauline]

Just got home and been able to listen via the link. So proud of you Sarah :clapping: