Ratios in primary school for ages 7 and above?

[Nicola Carlyle]

Hi everyone. Just wondered if anyone knows what the staff to child ratio is for school children aged 7 years and above on school outings?

Also - if there are parent helpers do they need to be fully up to date safeguarding training and hold a first aid certificate if they are left alone with a group of children?

I'm just a bit concerned that my daughters school are planning on taking 100 children approx to a very big theme park which will involve a 12 hour day for them with a 2 and a half to 3 hour coach journey there and back. The only information we have been given is start and finish times, clothing for that day, food we need to provide and that the children will be taking part in a workshop.

While I'm pleased the trip is heavily subsidised and we are being asked to make a small contribution something about it just isn't sitting right with me.

Any advice would be great.

[Petshrinklj]

Infants it's 1 adult to 6 kids . Juniors it's 1 adult to 8 kids

[Petshrinklj]

Also As far as im aware Parent helpers just need to be crb checked or whatever it's new name is.
I'm on my sons schools pta and am often a parent helper

[rosebud]

If you're worried go and talk to the head teacher and ask to see the risk assessment if it will make you feel better. You probably won't be the only one. My daughters infant school took the whole year group to the seaside - 2-3 hours on the bus, a chat with the headteacher was enough to reassure me and he offered to show me the risk assessment but I didn't need to see it after talking to him. She had a great day.

[Emra81]

Years ago, our LA (I'm a primary school teacher at the start of the registration process) used to stipulate 1:20 at junior school age for qualified teachers if there were no hazardous activities (e.g. ski trips required much lower ratios!). Non teaching staff was lower. But now they've removed that stipulation and just say that schools have to work to a ratio that is appropriate for the age of the children, their behaviour and the venue.

We tend to go with 1:12ish for years 3 and 4 on day trips (if not lower, depending on what that particular year group are like) and usually slightly higher for upper school depending on the nature of the venue. E.g. year 6 went to a museum in London this year and the ratio was 1:12 as it's such a busy, very public place and quite a 'tricky' cohort of kids so we risk assessed that that ratio was sensible for us to ensure the childrens safety. Any children who have behavioural issues or particular SEN, that could need individual attention, will have a 1:1 so that if anything crops up that requires the undivided attention of 1 adult, the overall ratios aren't affected. Obviously, in theory, this could be the case with any child, but the logic is that if a precedent has been set for a child to need extra support to manage a normal school day, then we have to plan for this when on a trip.

I've been on and run many school trips over the years and there are so many factors to consider. The best advice is definitely to go in and have a chat. Hopefully the trip has been risk assessed thoroughly and it'll just set your mind at ease.

Ultimately the teachers will have to endure the entire 12 hour day too so the likelihood is that they will have assessed and planned for it in a way that ensures it runs smoothly! Equally, taking children off the school site is a huge responsibility and any mistakes can pose a serious threat to a teachers job so it's not usually taken lightly. Although you do hear some horror stories as there are people out there who just don't seem to get the magnitude of the situation. Hopefully that's not the case with your dd's school!

Ooh and yep, parent helpers just have to be crb checked or whatever we're calling it now. We pair them up with an experienced member of the teaching staff though; their 2 groups will go through the day together so that the parent isn't left to deal with any issues on their own.

All LA's have their own rules though, as we know, so it could be completely different in your area. Hope that helps! :-s