Parent annoying me - advice pls

[SammySplodger]

Sorry - long one...

I look after a 10 month old boy, who is a firstborn child and his Mum is extremely 'sensitive' and fussy about him and (compared to other parents) very demanding. Most of what she does is, in isolation, reasonable, it's just that there seems to be an increasing amount of 'demands' being made by her.

But I will only go into the ones causing me greatest concern:

She has a rigid timetable with regards to sleeps and feeds, some of which I can accommodate and some I just can't. For example: he usually naps about 8.45 - 9.30 at home in his cot. I can't do that because of the school run (he doesn't sleep in the buggy while we are out). She knew this from day one and said it wasn't an issue, but NOW has started saying that he really needs to nap as soon as we get back home. Have tried this, but he's usually hungry when we get home and then snack time seems to pep him up a bit, so he is reluctant to nap until about 10.30. So, basically his routine with me is slightly different and Mum isn't happy about it, despite saying initially it was ok :-/

Her son was the first child to start with me when I re-registered and I have since added two more Mindees into the 'gang'. This Mum is taking a major interest in the others - wants to know who is there, what days, how the others are doing, what they are like etc. She did comment once that she was hoping her son would have a couple of months on his own with me before being joined by any others, ie: disappointed that he wouldn't be 1-1 with me. Again, she has known from day one that I have been advertising for more Mindees. I advertise my maximum number as 3 (despite bring registered for 6), but have never promised anyone 1-1!

On Thursday she commented that her son had started being grumpy at home on the days he'd been with me, would not go to sleep at bedtime and seemed very overtired. She is meeting me on Tuesday to discuss this. I just know that she will want me to stick to her 'timetable'. This, in isolation, isn't unreasonable, but alongside this:

She mentioned that a friend of hers needed a CM and that she had suggested the days that her son is with me, without checking with me that those days are actually free! As it happens, I had been talking to someone else and got a contract signed the following day. Her friend phoned and was majorly 'put out' that I was unable to help her and had already filled the space. Then the Mum phoned and said she thought it was a big shame and couldn't I reorganise the days so her son and her friends son could be together! She suggested that her friend had 'asked first' (via her), which was not true and, even if it was, frankly not up to her to decide!

I really can't be doing with a parent trying to organise my business in this manner. Need to nip it in the bud methinks - any advice about how I phrase it. Also advice on how to handle the meeting on Tuesday? Ta.

[supermumy]

Sounds like she is getting you mixed up with a nanny share
Just be honest on tuesday and tell her she knew from start you have school runs and was taking on others and although you respect her time table it isn't always going to fit in and you could maybe both work together to rearrange his sleep pattern so it more sensible and he isn't coming home overtired ? :)

[SammySplodger]

Sounds like she is getting you mixed up with a nanny share
Just be honest on tuesday and tell her she knew from start you have school runs and was taking on others and although you respect her time table it isn't always going to fit in and you could maybe both work together to rearrange his sleep pattern so it more sensible and he isn't coming home overtired ? :)

Ta for that :-)

More info re: overtired issue:

At home he sleeps in his cot in total darkness and silence (in the countryside). I have a travel cot or flat / fully reclined comfy buggy, no room in my home is totally dark, I live in a busy town with a fair amount of hustle & bustle outside, terraced house with a (perfectly normal / reasonable) amount of neighbour noise and a dog who barks occasionally. My gut feeling is that, to a certain extent, he needs to get used to a bit of noise... He usually has two naps in the buggy (I rock it for about 10 mins), at 10.30 - 11.45 and about 2.00 - 3.00. Is this not adequate for a 10 month old? BTW have tried travel cot, but he just stands up and screams. At the end of the day he doesn't seem over tired to me. Maybe he's being grumpy for some other reason?

[SammySplodger]

Ooops - forgot to add:

Mum wants him to have a sleep every 2 - 2.5 hours, first one by 9.30 latest.

[blue bear]

Oh I know the feeling so well, I had someone else who wanted the same hours and told mum so. Not in an aggressive angry way but I know things are difficult with me not being able to stick to things exactly as babe is used to and I have someone else who has asked and wanted to know if you might be looking for alternative care..... suddenly the routine wasn't so rigid and babe wasn't so grumpy etc.

[serin]

Sounds like she is getting you mixed up with a nanny share
Just be honest on tuesday and tell her she knew from start you have school runs and was taking on others and although you respect her time table it isn't always going to fit in and you could maybe both work together to rearrange his sleep pattern so it more sensible and he isn't coming home overtired ? :)

I agree the only thing you can do with the sleep pattern is be frank and honest. Sometimes the try to stand their ground thinking you will back down and agree but if you cant then you cant but if you work together in adjusting his sleeping time then it can work. If you dont work together then it wont work. Children need a consistent routine but I think she is being a bit fussy with an hour late nap.

It is unfortunate about her friend not being able to be same days but I would just say the contract is signed so you cant go back on it.

He sounds like a light fussy sleeper though. I always slept my boy with classic fm initially so he is a heavy sleeper now.

[Koala]

I'm glad he's not one of mine - well I'm glad the parent isn't anyway.

It sounds like you have someone who wants you to care for their son, but doesn't really and is finding it hard to let go.

To be honest I think you are going to have an endless battle on your hands. Unfortunately whatever you do won't be right, but I bet if you said you did exactly what she wanted and he had sleeps according to her schedule, whether he did or not, she would find something else to gripe about, she sounds a bit 'passive aggressive' and that type drives me mad.

And a sleep every couple of hours or so for a 10 month old is a bit strange - is it not? How do you fit anything else in? mid morning and mid afternoon is usually good for my little ones for however long they need. I have had parents wanting me to time and make sure children stuck to a routine, wake them up if they are still asleep and get them to sleep at a certain time to the dot, guess what it doesn't happen.

She is totally out of order trying to organize your business, but you must be doing something right for her to recommend a friend! It does sound a bit strange though her getting shirty - is she trying to have more power over you?

:( good luck :)

[SammySplodger]

I'm glad he's not one of mine - well I'm glad the parent isn't anyway.

It sounds like you have someone who wants you to care for their son, but doesn't really and is finding it hard to let go.
.....Yes: spot on! She also counts how many nappies I have used and asks me to leave bottles with leftover milk in so she can see how much he has had (gets annoyed if I wash them up).

And a sleep every couple of hours or so for a 10 month old is a bit strange - is it not? How do you fit anything else in? mid morning and mid afternoon is usually good for my little ones for however long they need.
....Yes! Have looked after 11 babies who all had two sleeps a day - has been perfectly acceptable to all other parents. Not sure where she's getting this idea from: sounds a bit Gina Ford-ish though.

She is totally out of order trying to organize your business, but you must be doing something right for her to recommend a friend! It does sound a bit strange though her getting shirty - is she trying to have more power over you?
...Yes! I find this odd as well, on the one hand demanding and moaning and on the other being very lovely about me to her friends. I did wonder if it was something about engineering it so that she knows exactly who will be with her son, ie: the other Mindee. She keeps asking about who the others are.

:( good luck :)


See above...
I think I will find guidance in my (many) childcare books about normal sleep times and show them to her on Tuesday and ask where she's getting the every 2 hours advice from.

[Koala]

oh Sammysplodger I feel for you, that would drive me crazy, in my opinion she is totally trying to undermine you and make you accountable for every little thing.

I have had one set of mums wanting to do that, I let it go and just smiled but in the end I just couldn't take it and one morning after yet another shirty but one it's own trivial comment the day previously (which it sounds like what is happening with you), I ended up telling them I couldn't work with them any more ( the constant chipping away and then they would say how good I was and how happy their son was and how poor their previous childminder was), I had to tell them (and it got quite heated) I found them increasingly rude and disrespectful and they would have to leave - now.

Don't let it get let it get that bad - sort it out now - you owe it to yourself.

[supermumy]

At 10 months old a nap in morning and a decent hour ot 2 sleep in afternoon is plenty

[KatieFS]

10m olds should have a sleep I'm morning and another in afternoon.
Yes he probably is due a sleep at 9.30 but needs to fit in with your routines . If he is hungry could you/she give the baby something before the run, then literally straight to bed when you get home.??
Also she will thank you for getting the baby used to sleeping in areas other than total darkness and silence. Such as holidays, total nightmare if babies aren't happy sleeping in noisy places!
You can only do your best with the routine and other children you have. I think parent needs to be realistic and compromise a bit.. And getti g involved in what your business looks like is crossing the line, i think does speak volumes too.. As in she believes she controls what you do and who you look after! Charming!!
I'd be trying to suggest maybe its not working out. Who needs this sort of pressure!! Chin up x.

[SammySplodger]

Hmmm yes - she may well THINK she can influence how I run my business, but we know that's not how it works.... I have ignored all of her comments along those lines so far, ie: none of what she had suggested or wanted has actually happened. If she raises any of these issues on Tuesday, I will make it clear that she's overstepped the mark.

I also think it will do no harm to point out that I currently have more enquiries than spaces (when discussing not being able to accommodate her friend).

Re: sleeps, I need to get to the bottom of why she thinks he needs more than the two he's currently getting. I do wonder if he's grumpy for some other reason.

I was hoping to start taking him to a toddler group which runs from 9.30 to 11.30. But I suppose that is out of the question if he won't sleep in the buggy while we are out. Which is a shame, as I really think he would enjoy it. Was thinking of either going late (nap before) or leaving early (nap after). Will raise it and see what she says.

I am generally very patient and accommodating with parents. But I'm not a pushover and will stand my ground if I feel I've had enough.

Will let you all know what happens, but do add more advice / thoughts to this thread.

[doris127]

I had someone come to see me that sounds exactly like that!! We were just on the point of completing contracts after a couple of visits when they backed out which I was very relieved about. Lo had to have a hot meal at 11.45 and be in cot for a sleep at 1.00. I was very honest and said that those were nursery pick up and drop off times so they would need to be 15 mins later which wasn't good enough. They also wanted me to feed tea along with the other children but didn't see how I could look after the child and cook as they couldn't!

I think you just need to be honest and point out that she is not your boss - she is paying for a service along with all the other parents. You have to do what is best for all the children. If timing of nap is so crucial to her then maybe as lo is an only child she could adapt to a time schedule that fits with you rather than the other way round. My main problem with all these exact timings is babies can't tell the time, they haven't read the manual and anyway they grow so quick and keep changing - what suits one week won't the next week. Thankfully apart from that 1 family all the rest prefer a more relaxed attitude of sleep when they're tired and for as long as they ( or I !!!) need.

[Leela]

Hi I too have a mum who asks me each morning that I look after her son how many children I will be looking after that day. She is basically alright and we get on well. But I do wonder why she asks and then last week she asked me how many children I have on roll. I look after her child two days a week and he is not my first minded child. At the end of the day this is a business and I work with an assistant, we do need to make a living and we can't do that if we limit our numbers to suit individual parents. She also asked me if I was making the same money now as in my previous career. Where do I draw the line at these questions?

[AliceK]

Hmmm yes - she may well THINK she can influence how I run my business, but we know that's not how it works.... I have ignored all of her comments along those lines so far, ie: none of what she had suggested or wanted has actually happened. If she raises any of these issues on Tuesday, I will make it clear that she's overstepped the mark.

I also think it will do no harm to point out that I currently have more enquiries than spaces (when discussing not being able to accommodate her friend).

Re: sleeps, I need to get to the bottom of why she thinks he needs more than the two he's currently getting. I do wonder if he's grumpy for some other reason.

I was hoping to start taking him to a toddler group which runs from 9.30 to 11.30. But I suppose that is out of the question if he won't sleep in the buggy while we are out. Which is a shame, as I really think he would enjoy it. Was thinking of either going late (nap before) or leaving early (nap after). Will raise it and see what she says. I am generally very patient and accommodating with parents. But I'm not a pushover and will stand my ground if I feel I've had enough.

Will let you all know what happens, but do add more advice / thoughts to this thread.

You see this is where we differ. I wouldn't raise it with her. What I do with my days and where I may or may not take the children is my decision based on all the childrens needs and I don't raise it with anyone. I believe that parents need to trust us as professionals with their children and be sure that all their needs will be met. If they cannot trust me to make decisions about what a child needs and when and help that child to grow and develop then I wouldn't be working with them. I think you need to borrow Wibbles hairy balls and stand up in no uncertain terms to this mum, she either trusts you to get on with things or she looks for alternative childcare.
Good Luck
xxxx

[Lilylulu]

Babies are flexible little people and can manage to have a different routine with you than at home, they have different challenges and things to interest them with you and naturally fall into a different routine as their day will structured differently anyway. We had a very fussy mum and had a chat with her after several months - along the lines of building up trust. She is still a bit fussy but managing to let go a bit more. I would just be very open, listen to her but try to be quite firm and professional so she knows you will do the best you possibly can for his best interests. Do u share photos between families? we have signed permission from each family for this, it helps if they can see that the children get along and enjoy interacting with each other. Good Luck on Tuesday - try not to worry too much ;) xx

[Maza]

I can see how she would be irritating! With regards to her friend's child - parents don't realise that it is not a dead cert that we will take them on, when they come to view/interview us, we are also interviewing them and may choose not to take them on if they don't 'fit'. Also, just because the mums are friends does not mean that the children will get along!

I have also taken on a baby who could only sleep in a darkened, silent room. This is all good and well when they are your only child but as soon as they become part of a group this cannot always be possible. That aspect has been very hard for me. I used to try and train him to sleep in the buggy when out and about as it just wasn't fair on my daughter sitting indoors whilst he had his very long naps. In the pushchair though he used to scream and I would be so paranoid about passers by. Also it ruined our lovely walks as we couldn't hear ourselves chatting and if we tried to feed the ducks they would all swim away because of the noise.

I would explain to mum that being part of a group offers many advantages, but some things have to be adapted because of balancing the groups needs as a whole. I would nicely explain that a nanny with sole charge could accomodate all her wishes but a childminder or nursery could not. At the same time you need to reassure her that you care very much about her child's well being and that of course you will meet his needs throughout the day but the timings may need to be tweaked a little.

Good luck, let us know how you get on! x

[SammySplodger]

You see this is where we differ. I wouldn't raise it with her. What I do with my days and where I may or may not take the children is my decision based on all the childrens needs and I don't raise it with anyone. I believe that parents need to trust us as professionals with their children and be sure that all their needs will be met. If they cannot trust me to make decisions about what a child needs and when and help that child to grow and develop then I wouldn't be working with them. I think you need to borrow Wibbles hairy balls and stand up in no uncertain terms to this mum, she either trusts you to get on with things or she looks for alternative childcare.
Good Luck
xxxx

AliceK - I haven't raised the issue of 'meddling' with my business with her so far at all. I'm anticipating that she will have a winge about it on Tuesday, ie: other children on roll and not saying yes to her friend.

[TooEarlyForGin?]

It is frustrating that because parents come into our homes that they feel they can behave differently than they would treat another professional.


As some has already said, I would point out what you can/can't do and suggest (if you are willing to loose her business) that she should consider a nanny, possibly a nanny share with her friend.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Sounds like a communication break down here and a meeting is needed

Did you not discuss her requirements of sleep/food etc and your schedule prior to starting. She may not realise why you cannot do it. Maybe baby can sleep in a pram or later.

I would just have a meeting and sort something out

[winstonian]

I also had a very similar mum. She would arrive twice a week with the days schedule written out on a sheet of A4 for me. I think I am quite really flexible and do try to accommodate routines but it got to the stage where my heart sank when I saw the sheet. I tried explaining that his days are different here, more children, activities etc, she completely blocked it all. Then she would arrive at 5 and expect 15 minutes debriefing whilst waiting for her husband to collect them (only paid till 5) ignoring the fact I was then trying to make tea for all the others as well as supervise them. I did a really detailed diary for her too with it all in. I ended up suggesting she took on a nanny, "too expensive" but she needed (not the baby but her) 1-1 care. He left and while it was a horrible conversation I immediately felt so much better.
Good luck with yours
x

[bunyip]

To put it another way, this mum wants total control over your time and, where you have other lo's, she wants to stick her nose into their business.

Quite simple. Offer her a deal in which:-

1. You drop all other clients.
2. She pays for every single place at your setting, which you are now running solely for her benefit.
3. Since she really wants to employ you, you will require her to pay all your tax, National Insurance, holiday pay, sick leave, and set up a pension fund for you.
4. That's all.

:thumbsup:

[SammySplodger]

Sounds like a communication break down here and a meeting is needed

Did you not discuss her requirements of sleep/food etc and your schedule prior to starting. She may not realise why you cannot do it. Maybe baby can sleep in a pram or later.

I would just have a meeting and sort something out

Meeting is happening on Tuesday, as said in previous posts.

I have a 6 page form which we filled in together during 3 x settling in sessions where schedules were discussed at great length. She has been aware of my school run since her very first visit. Demands have gradually crept in, one by one.

[SammySplodger]

To put it another way, this mum wants total control over your time and, where you have other lo's, she wants to stick her nose into their business.

Quite simple. Offer her a deal in which:-

1. You drop all other clients.
2. She pays for every single place at your setting, which you are now running solely for her benefit.
3. Since she really wants to employ you, you will require her to pay all your tax, National Insurance, holiday pay, sick leave, and set up a pension fund for you.
4. That's all.

:thumbsup:

Ha! Ha!
:-)

Nope.... I think I shall smile sweetly and put her right on a few points... and casually mention that I am currently getting quite a few enquiries (no word of a lie, happily).

She is a very fussy / highly strung new Mum of firstborn, appears to be following a schedule from somewhere (I suspect it is Gina Ford) and I think she is having great difficulty in 'letting go' and allowing her son to develop.

During our first meetings it was 'well this is what I do... but I will leave it up to you' and that has gradually changed since Feb 25th, with new demands creeping in every week or so along with comments / queries about stuff that is frankly none of her business.

Another thing I forgot to mention earlier that I found slightly odd (along with the naps every 2 hours) is that her son hates being bottle fed but she still tries and gets stressed about it. Initially I tried a bottle and he clearly hated it (moving head side to side and pushing bottle away with hands) so when I tried (with her permission) from a sippy cup, he grabbed both handles and happily gomped the whole lot down!

She still asks me to try giving him a bottle each day and notes in communication book when he's had a bottle at home (ie: hardly ever). I do as requested, bit cannot see the point tbh.

Wouldn't you have thought that, as we expect children to develop, that you'd go for the option that works and is a progression (ie: sippy cup) and not keep persevering with the method that is a step 'backwards'? He is 10 months old.

It's the same with solids - he won't be spoon fed - so I always let him try to feed himself and he gets plenty down the hatch (with sleeved bib on as very messy). Finger foods are no problem at all. Basically he loves being independent with food and drinks. Yet, at home I know she still sits trying to spoon feed.

Sorry - going on a bit - but just trying to make sense of it.

[bunyip]

Ah, there you go Sammy - being all reasonable again. :D

Suppose it's better than my subtle-as-a-flying-brick-approach. At least your way you get to keep the client. :laughing:

Still, I should keep the lo out of the way if Ofsted arrange a visit. I heard a couple of horror stories recently about CMs being marked down cos the lo's weren't using appropriate drinking vessels/cutlery for their age. Mum holds them back, but the CM gets down-graded as a result. :(

[SammySplodger]

Ah, there you go Sammy - being all reasonable again. :D

Suppose it's better than my subtle-as-a-flying-brick-approach. At least your way you get to keep the client. :laughing:

Still, I should keep the lo out of the way if Ofsted arrange a visit. I heard a couple of horror stories recently about CMs being marked down cos the lo's weren't using appropriate drinking vessels/cutlery for their age. Mum holds them back, but the CM gets down-graded as a result. :(

Thing is, he CAN use sippy cup, feed himself finger food and very good attempted self-spoon feeding. I just go through the charade of bottle and spoon because Mum has asked me to do it, which I note in Daily Diary eg;
'tried to feed with bottle, X pushed it away and shook head, transferred milk to sippy cup, X drank all of it'.
So not really a worry in terms of Ofsted, as I'll just let him self-feed that day.

[Helen79]

Good luck with the meeting tomorrow. I would stop indulging mum and totally stop offering the bottle and spoon. You have to follow the needs of the child, not mum's wants on this. Even if mum throws a paddy about it, stay strong and tell her it's a requirement of the EYFS that you have to follow child's development.

I was once that stressy first time mum so I'm normally sensitive to parent's feeling anxious but mum is asking you to put the baby through necessary stress every mealtime which in time will develop into a battle of wills and bad eating habits.

[jackie 7]

I had a mum who decided her child HAD to sleep in total dark and could not sleep any other way till I asked if they slept in buggy or car. Wasn't asked again.

[suziealderton]

Hi I too have a mum who asks me each morning that I look after her son how many children I will be looking after that day. She is basically alright and we get on well. But I do wonder why she asks and then last week she asked me how many children I have on roll. I look after her child two days a week and he is not my first minded child. At the end of the day this is a business and I work with an assistant, we do need to make a living and we can't do that if we limit our numbers to suit individual parents. She also asked me if I was making the same money now as in my previous career. Where do I draw the line at these questions?

its none of her business how much you make-and i would tell her so (maybe more politely) unless she is sounding out becoming a?

[suziealderton]

its none of her business how much you make-and i would tell her so (maybe more politely) unless she is sounding out becoming a?

childminder!

[SammySplodger]

Well.... it went ok!
Agreed two BIG sleeps.
Had meeting as a full review and covered all areas.
Was firm but fair.

Phew!
:-)

[smurfette]

Well.... it went ok!
Agreed two BIG sleeps.
Had meeting as a full review and covered all areas.
Was firm but fair.

Phew!
:-)

Well done you! Wine time!!

[SammySplodger]

Well done you! Wine time!!

Coffee and chocolate are my 'thing'!
:-D

[mama2three]

Great - now keep her in check. Dont let the demands creep back in. Professional and firm but fair Sammy is the way forward:D