Unemployed to be trained as Childminders by PACEY

[justgoodfriends]

Unemployed parents to be turned into childminders | Children & Young People Now (http://www.cypnow.co.uk/cyp/news/1076840/unemployed-parents-childminders)

Out-of-work parents will be trained to become childminders under a new government-funded programme, CYP Now can reveal.


Unemployed parents will be trained to become registered childminders. Image: Peter Crane

The ABC Pathway Programme will be run by the children’s charity Barnardo’s and the Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years (PACEY).

It is being funded as part of the National Prospectus Grants Programme, a £120m Department for Education scheme designed to boost services for early years, safeguarding and the care system.

The ABC Pathway Programme aims to help unemployed parents who attend children’s centres become registered childminders.

Parents taking part will be given “e-learning” sessions and paediatric first aid training developed by PACEY.

[Simona]

It has been obvious for a while but I think many cms missed it as we are concentraing on agencies
Isn't this telling (4th paragraph from the end):

''The programme has awarded £60m in grant funding and £60m in contracts to voluntary, community and social enterprise organisations''...all revolves around 'community and social enterprise'

[FussyElmo]

I dare not read it trying to keep my blood pressure level.

Just where are all these mythical children coming from?

Maybe this government should taxing the life into us ie bedroom tax. Start funding new enterprise more jobs would allow people to go back to work so people would need childcare. Or is this way to simple.

BUNYIP!!!!!!!

We need the revolution :thumbsup:

[Simona]

I think we need a well thought out PLAN B but cannot do that until we get clarification from PACEY to make sure we are interpreting this correctly?
I doubt we are wrong...brain in overload at present!

Bunyip wanted a riot ...we need a bit more than that at this stage!

[jackie 7]

I left Brent shear and a half ago. Then they were talking about training up unemployed as childminders.

[Memina]

What a waste of time and money!!!!

It really does take a special someone to educate children and care for them correctly.

Some fantastic parents out there but does not mean they can be childminders.

[zippy]

They'll have a job finding people, everyone I meet says they could never do my job lol.

[loocyloo]

i do wonder where all the children are for these childminders to look after!

i am full and there is demand where i am, however, i'm not sure that there is enough of a demand for another childminder to sustain a business! i had this conversation with Childrens centre manager just the other day!

most of the work i can't do is for bits & pieces, or 'what ifs' type of people!

[Simona]

My gut feeling is this is aimed at mothers who have been unemployed a long time not the 'middle class' ones who choose to stay at home

Many women who attend CCentres are 'disadvantaged' and attend the CC to be trained while cms look after their children (Stay and Play Plus cms), they may come from problem families with violence and alcohol and drug abuse..so these will be trained to be cms and look after vulnerable 2 year olds while good/outstanding cms are denied???
my view of course but it would make sense...I would be happy for these women to find a job but have serious doubts about being cms??

Isn't that the govt aim...to get women in work and reduce benefits? I also feel I have read that benefits will be reduced if people do not prove the hours they work...something to do with low paid?

This is a well calculated plan by a desperate govt and I worry that the women who will be turned into cms are those who cannot find any other jobs...so we are back to 'hair or care' so well highlighted by Prof Nutbrown
So ncma trains them in return for their m'ship?....cynical?

I keep hoping this is just a nightmare and I am going to wake up soon?

[SammySplodger]

I have just had a few days away for a well-earned break...

This is a complete NIGHTMARE!!!!!

Is it April 1st?

Why is this happening?

:-(

[Mouse]

If there are unemployed people who genuinely want to become childminders, but have been put off by the process & cost of registering, then maybe it is a good thing for them to be given the extra help.

But if people are encouraged to become childminders simply as an alternative to receiving benefits, I can't see it working. Even after all the training there's no guarantee of getting work. Who is going to give up their benefits on the off chance they might actually make a decent living out of childminding?

I have wondered all along where the agencies were going to get all their members from. It looks like they're going to be made up of unemployed parents.

[Simona]

It has been happening since last summer...slowly dripping out while development is in progress!!!

Don't forget this govt needs 130,000 spaces for 2 year olds this Sept then another 130,000 in Sept 2014
This fits very well (cynical again) as by that time these new cms will have been in the job a year and trained as well as inspected!!!
and if they go under an agency not even inspected so who will know what quality they offer....

as long as they are employed or self employed they won't be on benefits so the welfare bill is cut down (treble cynical now)

This puzzle has only a few bits missing...question is..is ncma some sort of agency, community or social enterprise model???

[supermumy]

Just read this and wow!
I work hard for my job and sick of stay at home mums saying god ur job is easy I do it everyday! No ones i know sit there watching Jeremy karl show every morning and doing window shopping!

[pinky33]

"More great childcare"........kiss my hairy a.r.s.e it is!!!!

[tori4]

Surely this does not fall into the gov - 'high quality and highly training EY staff . What abt the 3 GCSE's and above criteria

Very disappointing :-/

[Simona]

Please do not be cross with me...we need to be pro active now, we are possibly furious but that won't help us

I have politely asked ncma to issue a clarification before the end of the day
Request has been posted on ncma local and tweeted...amazing how few are helping in this but we can live in hope!!
More Great Childcare reforms affect us all including 54,000 cms, twice hit by the unwelcome initiatives, so it would be great to be united on this as cms were united on the ratios to help the rest of the sector.

I have also written to the CEOs and left a message on their answering machine just now.
If you wish to send a short message do so at Chief.Executive.s@**************
Please help to put a bit of pressure on ncma...help anyway you can!

[bunyip]

I dare not read it trying to keep my blood pressure level.

Just where are all these mythical children coming from?

Maybe this government should taxing the life into us ie bedroom tax. Start funding new enterprise more jobs would allow people to go back to work so people would need childcare. Or is this way to simple.

BUNYIP!!!!!!!

We need the revolution :thumbsup:

Sorry - been away a couple of days. Did you start the uprising without me............................? :cool:

[watgem]

Many cms in my area seem unaware or unconcerned about all these possible changes, how can I arouse their interest and spur them into action? I need bunyip, sarah n or simona to come talk to them:)

[Simona]

Latest for all of you
After the tweets, email to CEOs and message cam the response that all will be announced next week when all is finalised (via twitter may I add)..don't buy that as this is going on a while, I don't wnat the finishing touches we want overall details

ncma local has suddenly come alive ..it has got more posts in an hour than a week put together

...and last but not least the 'announcement' to the volunteers has just hit my inbox.
Let me go and digest it but looks like a reinforcement of not being an agency but helping these parent to achieve an inspection and grade and ...being caught short as they did not expect the DfE to announce this 'exciting project' before ncma was ready to do it themselves...back later

Watgem...would a rocket somewhere ignite their interest???
bunyip no uprising just a gentle rising of blood pressure...nothing ncma does surprises me but this has hit hard...maybe I need a glass of Merlot to regain my composure?

[crazyXstitcher]

as long as they are employed or self employed they won't be on benefits so the welfare bill is cut down (treble cynical now)

That's the thought that crossed my mind too, along being able to declare lower unemployment figures.

Am I being excessively cynical to think this is a desperate plan by ET to find childminders who will join an agency because none of us will. All these new childminders will be encouraged to join an agency because they don't know any (better) different and ET will bleat on about agencies being a great success blah blah blah.

[bunyip]

Many cms in my area seem unaware or unconcerned about all these possible changes, how can I arouse their interest and spur them into action? I need bunyip, sarah n or simona to come talk to them:)

Well I'm banging my head against a brick wall here. My PACEY DO has told my local CM group that agencies are a foregone conclusion and we cannot do a thing about it. Since she has all the local CMs eating out of her hand, we instantly lost them from the cause the moment the DO opened her mouth. I asked PACEY HQ to comment on this and their emailed response was that "all staff have been briefed." Hmmmm............:mad:

[SYLVIA]

Wonder how many will stick at being childminders when they start the work for real. If they don't pick this as their job they are not going to put the effort in that's needed. And if agencies are taking them on their books parents may find that they are not getting a good service from their childminders. It's got to produce a knock on effort I would have thought. Again it's the children that will suffer.

[Simona]

Response is now public on twitter and elsewhere so you can see for yourself...more next week


''We wanted to make clear to PACEY members that this joint project with Barnardos is not looking to develop a model for a childminder agency. As you know PACEY does not support this policy proposal and, indeed as part of finalizing the arrangements for our joint working with Barnardos, we have made this clear. We have ensured there are contractual measures (KPIs) included in the project plan submitted to the DFE that focus on the importance of parents who participate being supported to prepare for their individual inspection and secure a grade.

We actually hope this exciting project is a way to demonstrate to government, local authorities and regulators that you do not need a third party agency to support individuals into the profession and that there are other more effective ways to collectively support prospective childminders.

We always work to ensure our members are the first to hear about our new plans and developments. Unfortunately on this occasion we were not told by the DfE that they intended to publicise these projects in advance of our finalizing our contract with Barnardos and others. We plan to publicise our involvement with this and other DfE funded projects in the next week.'' (end)



One thought though as ncma are against agencies these cms will be recruited by them...so agencies are not compulsory for new cms??

[snortlet]

just when I thought i'd heard it all!!

[AgentTink]

I have read this link all day and not been quite sure what to say, as i just feel a bit overwhelmed by it all :(

This idea was first branded about last October, see the below link to a thread i started on this topic

http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/campaigns-petitions/109389-i-have-heard-all-now.html

Why is everything feeling like a uphill struggle at the moment? :panic:

If there is a government grant up for grabs why is it not being used to advertise current childminders to the country, why is not being used to support current childminders to have the best resources and support we can get, why is the funding not being used to support our experience and dedication to the role, why is the funding not being used to help cut down on the expense of childminders being inspected by Ofsted (this is the reason this whole darn thing started in the first place was due to costs from Ofsted and the workload we put on them).

I could go on with whys, but who is listening :panic:

Instead more people will become childminders, and lets face it the PACEY article simply states that these new childminders will be supported to "secure a grade", but what grade it does not say. As we all know it is so hard for new childminders to get a good, so the next time the Ofsted stats are produced and there are a extra 10,000 childminders who will all need a first graded inspection within six months, and majority get a satisfactory through no fault of their own other than that they are new, this will then go against childminders as a whole and we will be classed to be the weaker childcare sector again :panic::panic:

I want to see sufficiency charts that show that there is a need for all these extra spaces to be created. Will they only allow these new childminders were there is a need?? I doubt it. And secondly, since the government, Ofsted and DfE do not praise childminders and instead insult us at most opportunities , whose to say that all these families with disadvantaged 2 years are even going to want to use a childminder? Are they going to suddenly praise the work we do and insist that all 2 years old would be better off in a home from home environment????

[Essbops]

Omg I'm struggeling as it is :(

[Ripeberry]

Why childminders? They could as easily get them to work for old people in their own homes. Lots of parents have to give up work to look after elderly relatives. Get the unemployed helping the high proportion of older people in our society. Where will all this madness end? :angry:

[supermumy]

I posted this on my fb and got a reply for
A mum saying " what's the big deal we do this everyday with our own" grrrrrr

[welshgirl]

Wow! Shocking! I really can't say anymore about this. Will send it onto my early years team over the weekend. They have been very quiet about the whole childminder agency issue, then today they sent out a survey, one of the questions was would you be interested in joining an agency if it was run by the council!!! Mmmmmm...... NO !!

[watgem]

Definitely need avrocket simona I posted it on my fb and nothing, I think I need I
R
To spell it out to parents instead to pass it round to other parents/prospective parents just to raise their awareness iyswim? I've got a week off now I think I'll be adding that to my to do list. Our do is being made redundant soon and so is not being told any info about whats happening in our are
Ae, just need the other cms to be more interested

[lilac_dragon]

It doesn't rain, but it pours!!!
As soon as we think we've heard it all another problem is dropped into the pot.

A lot of us have lost or are losing our DOs so who are all these new childminders going to go to for help and support?

[Simona]

I like that...why cms? they could work anywhere!!! lets see what ncma says in response
I got up this morning truly thinking I had dreamed they had given us a reply...

I do agree with keeping your LA involved...please bombard them with news, links...send them every article you see, send them the link to the consultation on the change in role for LA, get them to arrange meeting for cms and distribute the links of articles to other cms

Please remember that LAs at present 'have a duty' to inform, support and train cms under the Childcare Act 2006..when that is taken away by this govt they will regret it so use it now as a reminder of their duty

I understand there is a huge group of cms (hundreds of them) on Facebook all doing something but not sure what....was there no response yesterday?

[wellybelly]

Why is childminding seen by so many as the next step up from the unemployed? Its heart breaking to think that all the training I've done / paid for / completed in my own time has got me to the assumption by some who think I am on that level! I know I that might sound stereotypical or discriminating or that I may be generalising against all the unemployed but I know some people who have not ever tried to work and have "milked the system" because they could! I feel so sad that after all this hard work, that is how we're seen :(

[Simona]

Please do not let this make you feel unworthy...I have to admit my reaction is simple 'fury' not feeling undermined
If that is what ncma want then I leave them to their new membership

this is the point we need to make that by allowing anyone to come into childminding we are taking our 'profession' back into 'anyone can do it'....shame on ncma not to have understood this could be the response and as for the DfE patronising statements I don't know who is worse ?

[twinkletots]

What a load of garbage!!!!!

I am disgusted! Will they pass CRB checks? Medicals, what a waste of money completing the courses and checks to maybe fail.
Also once registered and they struggle to get work at first will they give up and go back to unemployed, maybe they will be given financial help and help
Finding children to look after, whilst we struggled advertising our spaces etc! We are obviously not very valued!

We should start a petition!!!

[SammySplodger]

Please do not let this make you feel unworthy...I have to admit my reaction is simple 'fury' not feeling undermined
If that is what ncma want then I leave them to their new membership

this is the point we need to make that by allowing anyone to come into childminding we are taking our 'profession' back into 'anyone can do it'....shame on ncma not to have understood this could be the response and as for the DfE patronising statements I don't know who is worse ?

This is exactly how I feel Simona.

I am seriously considering resigning from NCMA/PACEY on principle, as I feel so let down by them. I was disappointed already by their recent changes... but this is something else entirely. I do no feel they are properly representing us any more.

I wonder what would happen if we all left in droves and the 'new membership' was short-lived?!

[angeldelight]

This is exactly how I feel Simona.

I am seriously considering resigning from NCMA/PACEY on principle, as I feel so let down by them. I was disappointed already by their recent changes... but this is something else entirely. I do no feel they are properly representing us any more.

I wonder what would happen if we all left in droves and the 'new membership' was short-lived?!

We seem to be on the receiving end of a lot lately

It's so frustrating

I know of 5 friends yesterday who changed to mm and others are following suit .

I'm surprised one of you haven't started a petition!!

Why not get them to do something like hospital cleaners ....where they can help over stretched staff ....everyone moans at the state of hospitals ...help is needed more in those sectors I feel .... Imagine being in a high unemployment area and all those people did childminding ...how on earth would there be enough work for us ...

Angel xxx

[SammySplodger]

We seem to be on the receiving end of a lot lately

It's so frustrating

I know of 5 friends yesterday who changed to mm and others are following suit .

I'm surprised one of you haven't started a petition!!

Why not get them to do something like hospital cleaners ....where they can help over stretched staff ....everyone moans at the state of hospitals ...help is needed more in those sectors I feel .... Imagine being in a high unemployment area and all those people did childminding ...how on earth would there be enough work for us ...

Angel xxx

I am waiting for PACEY's statement next week and then making a final decision.

But I am prepared to 'vote with my feet', which will mean getting new contracts signed.

Bitterly disappointed in them - yes they may say they don't support agencies but they are still colluding with Truss.

[angeldelight]

I am waiting for PACEY's statement next week and then making a final decision.

But I am prepared to 'vote with my feet', which will mean getting new contracts signed.

Bitterly disappointed in them - yes they may say they don't support agencies but they are still colluding with Truss.

I'm with MM I was with NCNA years ago

But in your shoes I would also wait and see ...no point everyone panicking at this stage

When are they making their statement ...actually I will get an email no doubt because they have still always sent me updates like I'm still a member :laughing:

Angel xx

[Simona]

Please be pro active and not react to one bit of a statement...ncma caved in to a request to clarify and the rest will come next week
We need to know the full picture before we decide to stay or jump ship
you have more voice within ncma that out of it...once you leave no one will listen...petitions do nothing unless they are e-petitions that get debated in the House of Commons

the ncma events are coming up so this is the opportunity to get heard...also write to them...go on ncma local and voice your concerns as they go straight to the CEOs...contact your ncma NPF rep and tell her how you feel....approach your LA and tell them you are worried about this influx of cms, what are their plans?

we need a plan B as I have said but this reaction is not going to work...agencies are coming, new cms recruited, LAs may disappear... what can we do to survive is the vital question?
if you have ideas let me know

[angeldelight]

Please be pro active and not react to one bit of a statement...ncma caved in to a request to clarify and the rest will come next week
We need to know the full picture before we decide to stay or jump ship
you have more voice within ncma that out of it...once you leave no one will listen...petitions do nothing unless they are e-petitions that get debated in the House of Commons

the ncma events are coming up so this is the opportunity to get heard...also write to them...go on ncma local and voice your concerns as they go straight to the CEOs...contact your ncma NPF rep and tell her how you feel....approach your LA and tell them you are worried about this influx of cms, what are their plans?

we need a plan B as I have said but this reaction is not going to work...agencies are coming, new cms recruited, LAs may disappear... what can we do to survive is the vital question?
if you have ideas let me know

Chatting ...petitions which I agree are pointless most of the time ...it's going to happen whatever by the looks of things

I think you must have skipped the last few messages here ....we were saying no point in jumping ship yet ....a lot will stay anyway whatever happens

No point getting upset if some leave Pacey now .... because that will happen too

Like Sam suggested ... Let's see what they say next week

Angel xx

[Simona]

I feel I have read the messages correctly and I have also said no need to jump ship...which is the other ship we would go to as we have little info what they would offer as none of the other associations have finalised their package as yet for cms??

The plan would be to do something which I have suggested...I have done all those things listed below and have also lobbied ncma yesterday into giving a response and which has made cms start a discussion on ncma Local...

I have also visited my MP 3 times and got 3 letters from him
I have written to the DfE and still communicating with them, I wrote to Sue Gregory twice and got 2 responses and have hundreds of emails to many MPS and responded to all consultations so far and will be attending ncma event soon to put my questions to them...that is what I am trying to encourage others to do

ncma have stated more clarification will come next week in the message below...how they are passing that message on no one knows...ncma local, newsletter, email to volunteers, general statement? whichever method they choose it will be shared

[angeldelight]

Calm down Simona

It's the weekend ...smile

Have a break ...relax

Have a good one

Angel xx

[Simona]

I am very calm and by the responses below looks like others cms are engaging in discussion positively and sharing information.

[SammySplodger]

Chatting ...petitions which I agree are pointless most of the time ...it's going to happen whatever by the looks of things

I think you must have skipped the last few messages here ....we were saying no point in jumping ship yet ....a lot will stay anyway whatever happens

No point getting upset if some leave Pacey now .... because that will happen too

Like Sam suggested ... Let's see what they say next week

Angel xx

My membership runs until January anyway. Let's just say I'm keeping a VERY close eye on what PACEY do this year. If I still feel unhappy with them, I won't renew it. To be honest, if it was coming up for renewal right now, I don't think I would - not sure what they stand for any more and 'how the land lies'. Too many uncertainties that need clarifying.

What I can see is an awful lot of money being wasted by these grants. If the new CMs are expected to do all their training (including Maths & English?) BEFORE registering, how many could potentially get rejected when they apply? Oh, sorry, silly me, I forgot: it will be 'more straight forward' to register via Agencies...

And how many will complete the training and actually become CMs? I am not ashamed to admit that I really struggled to get my head around CYPOP5 and I am educated to degree level. As we all know... it's just not that easy. Never mind the actual day to day hard graft that goes into being a CM.

Massive confusion, a series of horrendous co*k ups and complete decimation of the CM registration system as we now know it by a government who surely....SURELY! won't still be here by 2015. They (Truss & co) just don't give a monkeys, because their days are numbered.... 760 days to be exact. AND COUNTING.

[angeldelight]

My membership runs until January anyway. Let's just say I'm keeping a VERY close eye on what PACEY do this year. If I still feel unhappy with them, I won't renew it. To be honest, if it was coming up for renewal right now, I don't think I would - not sure what they stand for any more and 'how the land lies'. Too many uncertainties that need clarifying.

What I can see is an awful lot of money being wasted by these grants. If the new CMs are expected to do all their training (including Maths & English?) BEFORE registering, how many could potentially get rejected when they apply? Oh, sorry, silly me, I forgot: it will be 'more straight forward' to register via Agencies...

And how many will complete the training and actually become CMs? I am not ashamed to admit that I really struggled to get my head around CYPOP5 and I am educated to degree level. As we all know... it's just not that easy. Never mind the actual day to day hard graft that goes into being a CM.

Massive confusion, a series of horrendous co*k ups and complete decimation of the CM registration system as we now know it by a government who surely....SURELY! won't still be here by 2015. They (Truss & co) just don't give a monkeys, because their days are numbered.... 760 days to be exact. AND COUNTING.

I know your not the only one to feel like this

It's a worry

It's the weekend though ...we all need to unwind and chill out ....this is certainly not going away is it

Have a good weekend

Angel xx

[SammySplodger]

I know your not the only one to feel like this

It's a worry

It's the weekend though ...we all need to unwind and chill out ....this is certainly not going away is it

Have a good weekend

Angel xx

Thank you Angel xxxx
Just needed to get that off my chest
Not feeling very well today either - nasty cold
Duvet day and catching up on the dreaded holiday washing methinks.

[angeldelight]

Thank you Angel xxxx
Just needed to get that off my chest
Not feeling very well today either - nasty cold
Duvet day and catching up on the dreaded holiday washing methinks.

No rest for the wicked

Hope you feel better soon

Angel xx

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Please do not be cross with me...we need to be pro active now, we are possibly furious but that won't help us

I have politely asked ncma to issue a clarification before the end of the day
Request has been posted on ncma local and tweeted...amazing how few are helping in this but we can live in hope!!
More Great Childcare reforms affect us all including 54,000 cms, twice hit by the unwelcome initiatives, so it would be great to be united on this as cms were united on the ratios to help the rest of the sector.

I have also written to the CEOs and left a message on their answering machine just now.
If you wish to send a short message do so at Chief.Executive.s@**************
Please help to put a bit of pressure on ncma...help anyway you can!

Simona whilst I understand that people want answers there hasn't been a release from PACEY yet so why do you want people to put pressure on PACEY and for what?

Confused.com

[Simona]

The message you highlighted was the one sent during the day when the news broke out...yes we were trying to get ncma to answer, as you know they have with a short statement last night that will be followed by clarification next week

what do we want?...answers from our representing association and I feel I am not the only one wanting them in this forum and elsewhere
Once we get them that will inform our future choice
As NPF rep you must be aware that members have been unhappy at many recent decisions taken by ncma despite our opposition to them...this initiative did not even have a consultation process at all so the reaction is not a surprise

I agree lets unwind a bit this weekend and wait for the reply next week...look after your cold Sammy (hot toddy ?)

[Mouse]

Why childminders? They could as easily get them to work for old people in their own homes. Lots of parents have to give up work to look after elderly relatives. Get the unemployed helping the high proportion of older people in our society. Where will all this madness end? :angry:

I guess the scheme will be aimed at parents, particularly mothers, who are at home with their own children, meaning the government gets them working without the need to pay out for childcare.

But, if it is aimed at parents with young children, they're going to be limited to the amount of children they can look after, thus limiting their income. How many are going to want to give up their benefits in favour of a job that will probably pay them even less?

Have there been any responses from UKCMA or the Indepenedant Childminders group (can't remember it's name!)?

[rickysmiths]

I actually think this is not a bad plan. In the next two years many more childcare palces have got to be found for the 2 years olds.

How many of those of you who are bellyaching have got your Level 3 and have registered with your LA ready to offer 2 year old funding?

My County has approx 1600 to 1700 childminders and last year when I completed my Level 3 ( only 2 of us among the more experienced childminders took up the funding and did the course out of a 12 or so who could have done near me) there were only 35 Accredited Childminders in the whole County qualified to deliver the 3-4 year funding which I find very sad.

I think it is good that Pacey are getting involved in this at least we know the people will be trained to a good min standard and have the support of a Professional long standing organization who know what they are talking about.

I really don't know what you are all so scared about. Childminders should do better than ever because if they are recognised as good delivering the 2yr funding then we will keep the children through their 3-4 year funding as well.

It seems to me that the Day Nurseries (and a few around us have stopped offering the 3-4 year funding) and Pre schools are the ones that need to be worried. If we all prepare we could do very well out of this.

I have no problem with the increased ratios for Childminders either. I have often cared for 2 under ones or 4 under 5s so that is fine for me I won't have to go through the process of Ofsted to alter my numbers, good, I am at long last going to be able to use my own professional judgement. I also thing we stand to gain on this one, as the Day Nurseries start to increase their children and decrease their staff, which they will do if they see they can make more profit.

The only issue I have is with the Agency model which I don't think they have thought through very well at all.

[Simona]

Many points in your reply Rickysmiths which highlight the variety on offer by LAs and the many unanswered questions we have

I have a Foundation Degree and an outstanding grade...have I registered interest in funding 2 year olds?
yes but I have to re join the network (and all paperwork involved which is nothing but duplication of what I evidence to Ofsted) and become Accredited (which I was when I left the network years ago) and do quality assurance which doubles what I have already

the rate for 2 year olds is £6.10 rather good... but drops to £3.50 (same rate as 6 years ago when I left the network) when the child is 3...so many cms have to think about sustainability
Will I ever look after 2 year olds? ...not really because they are allocated to network cms at present but later on it may be different when 130,000 need a space and then another 130,000 in 2014
My LA also allow satisfactory cms to deliver the funding to 2 year olds...so have reshuffled the DfE criteria and basket of measures...if they want to ignore good/outstanding cms in favour of the satisfactory then let them get on with it

In my view if ncma get involved in this training of unemployed mothers the LAs will lose out...my LA and many others have qualified and experienced consultants with a mixture of training on offer...new cms still need LA training in Safeguarding and LAs also have local knowledge of cms

Only one day nursery chain is now 'considering' whether to raise ratios after consulting with parents if the higher ratio is passed
Both Busybees and Kidsunlimited who backed Truss have now withdrawn
Preschools are not raising ratios hence their petition

There is no one agency model...as we know from replies from the DfE many models are being developed and suggested by those sitting with the DfE...community and social enterprises as well as commercial ones (Truss' model) versus Sue Gregory (cms hubs in CCentres)

what ncma's initiative has in common is that they can recruit and train new cms to fulfil govt policy??...we will of course find out next week what it is all about...especially as they are doing it with Barnardo's and we can then decide if it is good or otherwise for cms

Read what the new associations can do even if they are not agencies and you will find the answer in the small print and some similarities
When these cms are up and running who will support them...ncma or the LA? will they be in an agency? employed or self employed?

I feel cms are not scared but frustrated at the drip drip of info and if the vast majority wish to remain independent, as it appears, we are being sidelined by all talk of agencies

I know that other cms will have their own system in place with their LA...and that is where all this has started from...lack of a standardised system to equally support all cms across England instead of a two tier of cms (network and non network)
now we can look forward to agency cms and unemployed mothers joining in as well as Ofsted registered independent cms and those non Ofsted registered independent and, last but not least, employed cms and self employed cms

So I would not apply 'scared' to our feelings at the moment but rather utter confusion until all is clarified...the waiting game will be over soon.

[bunyip]

:( I have to say this thread leaves me feeling quite cold and very saddened by the trends going on at pacey and by the attitude of some of my fellow-CMs. (I'll address the pacey issue later.)

Their seems to be a rather unpleasant streak of prejudice here, suggesting that "The Unemployed" are somehow not fit to become CMs. I fully understand regime tactics in wanting a lot more childcarers in order to relieve the unemployment statistics and meet their targets for 2yo provision. But that does not give us the right to make slurs against a whole swathe of individuals with very real and varied talents. However much they are statistically doctored, unemployment figures remain a measurement of the failure of capitalist regimes; they are not a measure of the moral fibre of its individual victims.

Am I to take it that any current CM who took up CMing to get out of the dole queue is, therefore, not fit to do the job? I suspect many of us went into CMing to fit around our home/family circumstances, rather than as the end goal in a lengthy career path. And what of those people who progress from their school studies with the single intention of pursuing childcare as a career: well lo and behold, aren't they just the very people who are repeatedly sneered at by CMs as "teenage nursery staff"? Shame on us. :(

So is it true or false that "anyone can become a CM" ? Well, no - not strictly true. We have a system of regulation that decides: suitable people, suitable premises, minimum standards, requirements, training. We are all subject to these regulations - and so is anyone else who wants to gain registration. In fact: anyone entering CMing today may well have to achieve more than some of our longer-established colleagues. Or perhaps we should demand the government 'raises the bar' when it comes to regulation? But then how many existing CMs might fail to make the grade? Let's face it, the basic entry level training requirements are currently pretty minimal.

So are we to say we are somehow better than these people who are currently having their potential wasted by the plague of unemployment? Despite what you're reading in the Sun and the Daily Mail, most of these people want to find work. (if anything, it's the profit-hungry businesses and so-called "wealth-creators" that actually need a pool of unemployed in order to suppress demands for decent wages.)

Do so many CMs really see "The Unemployed" as some undeserving underclass of sub-humans or are they just not middle-class enough to look after children - even if they can prove themselves by meeting the very same regulatory standards that many of us have achieved. And before we sneer at people who are "living on benefits", we might actually take a look at ourselves. Up to 90% of the UK working population are living on some form of benefit or government support. A lot of CMs rely on Tax Credits, never mind the number of us who would lose vital clients if they had no TCs or childcare vouchers to help with our fees - our income.

Shame on us. :(

[FussyElmo]

:( I have to say this thread leaves me feeling quite cold and very saddened by the trends going on at pacey and by the attitude of some of my fellow-CMs. (I'll address the pacey issue later.)

Their seems to be a rather unpleasant streak of prejudice here, suggesting that "The Unemployed" are somehow not fit to become CMs. I fully understand regime tactics in wanting a lot more childcarers in order to relieve the unemployment statistics and meet their targets for 2yo provision. But that does not give us the right to make slurs against a whole swathe of individuals with very real and varied talents. However much they are statistically doctored, unemployment figures remain a measurement of the failure of capitalist regimes; they are not a measure of the moral fibre of its individual victims.

Am I to take it that any current CM who took up CMing to get out of the dole queue is, therefore, not fit to do the job? I suspect many of us went into CMing to fit around our home/family circumstances, rather than as the end goal in a lengthy career path. And what of those people who progress from their school studies with the single intention of pursuing childcare as a career: well lo and behold, aren't they just the very people who are repeatedly sneered at by CMs as "teenage nursery staff"? Shame on us. :(

So is it true or false that "anyone can become a CM" ? Well, no - not strictly true. We have a system of regulation that decides: suitable people, suitable premises, minimum standards, requirements, training. We are all subject to these regulations - and so is anyone else who wants to gain registration. In fact: anyone entering CMing today may well have to achieve more than some of our longer-established colleagues. Or perhaps we should demand the government 'raises the bar' when it comes to regulation? But then how many existing CMs might fail to make the grade? Let's face it, the basic entry level training requirements are currently pretty minimal.

So are we to say we are somehow better than these people who are currently having their potential wasted by the plague of unemployment? Despite what you're reading in the Sun and the Daily Mail, most of these people want to find work. (if anything, it's the profit-hungry businesses and so-called "wealth-creators" that actually need a pool of unemployed in order to suppress demands for decent wages.)

Do so many CMs really see "The Unemployed" as some undeserving underclass of sub-humans or are they just not middle-class enough to look after children - even if they can prove themselves by meeting the very same regulatory standards that many of us have achieved. And before we sneer at people who are "living on benefits", we might actually take a look at ourselves. Up to 90% of the UK working population are living on some form of benefit or government support. A lot of CMs rely on Tax Credits, never mind the number of us who would lose vital clients if they had no TCs or childcare vouchers to help with our fees - our income.

Shame on us. :(



Very true Bunyip.

When I said we need the revolution it was not because of the plan to help the unemployed into cming. Hey I was actually unemployed on income support and a single parent when I trained as a cm.

If it helps someone to get into cming then its a could thing. However I think the millions they are pumping into this could be invested somewhere else.

Our La is great and all our courses are free Im sure the Cypop or whatever it is called now will be free if you are on benefits.

So the problem in our area if the unemployed don't want to train now when they already get most of it free pumping money into wont work.

Bedroom tax, universal credit, 20% reduction to the disability living allowance, tax break for high earners it goes on and on and on.

[FussyElmo]

And while Im on my soapbox this government cabinet (23 of them are millionaires) rejected a mansion tax and introduced the bedroom tax to hit the poor

[bunyip]

Moving onto pacey, I have serious concerns about some apparent trends they seem to be showing.

They have become very keen to "announce" things: to tell us what they are doing for us, their members, rather than to properly consult and allow members to decide. A distinct pattern is emerging, whereby pacey lead and expect their members to follow. We've already seen on other threads, how so many members firmly believe that the re-brand and widening of membership were "done deals" and that the so-called "consultation process" amounted to a sham justification of this. That's before we even consider the old political trick of formulating a question in such a way as to deliver the answer you wanted all along. We've seen the executive spinning these decisions in the pages of the childcare professional (sic) whilst totally ignoring the legitimate concerns of those who worry about CMs' particular interests becoming diluted by the wider membership. (I don't personally share those concerns, but do firmly believe they are widely-held and should be recognised and addressed.) It appears that pacey is happy to lead, let its members follow, and ignore any number of let-down CM members who happen to be "off-message". :(

Many of the pacey members I speak to locally, nationally, or here on the forum, seem to be saying they're unhappy with how things are going. I get the impression NCMA membership and loyalty used to be pretty reliable and a safe assumption going forward. people were happy with the organisation and stuck with it. No longer. So many CMs are saying they'll see how things are when their membership renewal comes up; maybe give it a year or 2 to see if it improves; and so on.

Within this context, the prospect of 1000's of pacey-trained, newly-registered CMs, providing a whole new influx of members must be very appealing to the powers-that-be at pacey HQ. I predict the following over the next few years:-

1. A significant proportion of existing CM members will follow those who have already left pacey due to disappointment, disillusionment, etc.
2. pacey will recruit a large number of new members through the sort of scheme which is the basis of this thread (see OP and link.)
3. Nursery staff membership will also add to pacey's numbers.
4. pacey will continue to praise its own "success" (measured purely as a numbers game with growing membership) whilst ignoring the fact that it is failing its long-standing supporters who will leave and be no further trouble to the organisation.

The risk is there to be seen clearly by anyone with eyes to see. pacey identifies itself so strongly with "the interests of CMs" that the organisation assumes anything it does must be good for CMs. Sadly, this is historically the mark of a despot. :(


[Please note that I do know how to use capital letters, but see no reason to wear out my shift key if our "professional" association cannot be bothered.]

[hectors house]

I hear what you are saying Bunyip about people's perception of "the unemployed" but I feel that if these unemployed women who attend Children's Centres wanted to be childminders, why haven't they done it before - is it because of start up costs and spending money that they don't have on medical checks, first aid courses, childminding courses, equipment etc - if so why can't the government go back to giving a grant as they used to 8 years ago, when I re-registered - £300 paid for all of the above, plus a years membership to NCMA & stationery - but I re-registered because I wanted to do it, when I self reflected I realised that it was the only job I had done that gave me job satisfaction - you could say I had a calling to return.

Will forcing people into childminding give us the high standards we are all striving to achieve - I agree that a great many unemployed people are educated and find themselves unemployed because of the recession, but you have to "want" to do it to do it not be made to.

I know Truss has got her childcare ideas from Europe which we don't all agree with, but I think it is time that the Employment Ministers looked to Europe in particular Denmark (my uncle lives there) - my uncle had to give up work due to disability (caused by the repetitive nature of his work), however after just 6 months on disability benefit he was found work in an Old People's Care Home (which are fantastic places - not like our "waiting to die" institutions!) as a handyman/gardener - he worked 20 hours a week but was paid a full time wage.

In Denmark the churchyards are immaculate, the streets clean, State Care homes (not private BUPA ones) like top hotels with restaurants so good that they open to non-residents, they have libraries and gyms etc. People shouldn't be paid benefits to sit at home and do nothing, they should be paid volunteers making a difference to the community. This wouldn't take jobs away from people because no-one does these jobs, these people would need childcare and we all would be happy.

Anyway - that's me sorted out unemployment and childcare for the morning - better get off my soapbox before someone shoots me down.

[FussyElmo]

I hear what you are saying Bunyip about people's perception of "the unemployed" but I feel that if these unemployed women who attend Children's Centres wanted to be childminders, why haven't they done it before - is it because of start up costs and spending money that they don't have on medical checks, first aid courses, childminding courses, equipment etc - if so why can't the government go back to giving a grant as they used to 8 years ago, when I re-registered - £300 paid for all of the above, plus a years membership to NCMA & stationery - but I re-registered because I wanted to do it, when I self reflected I realised that it was the only job I had done that gave me job satisfaction - you could say I had a calling to return.

Will forcing people into childminding give us the high standards we are all striving to achieve - I agree that a great many unemployed people are educated and find themselves unemployed because of the recession, but you have to "want" to do it to do it not be made to.

I know Truss has got her childcare ideas from Europe which we don't all agree with, but I think it is time that the Employment Ministers looked to Europe in particular Denmark (my uncle lives there) - my uncle had to give up work due to disability (caused by the repetitive nature of his work), however after just 6 months on disability benefit he was found work in an Old People's Care Home (which are fantastic places - not like our "waiting to die" institutions!) as a handyman/gardener - he worked 20 hours a week but was paid a full time wage.

In Denmark the churchyards are immaculate, the streets clean, State Care homes (not private BUPA ones) like top hotels with restaurants so good that they open to non-residents, they have libraries and gyms etc. People shouldn't be paid benefits to sit at home and do nothing, they should be paid volunteers making a difference to the community. This wouldn't take jobs away from people because no-one does these jobs, these people would need childcare and we all would be happy.

Anyway - that's me sorted out unemployment and childcare for the morning - better get off my soapbox before someone shoots me down.

No come and join me on the soapbox :thumbsup:

[Simona]

Thanks for that thought Bunyip

I think that this requires clarification
I am not against unemployed mothers finding jobs or becoming cms

I am against the way this is being done now obviously in line with govt policy to get women back to work and off benefits?
what of those mothers who wish to stay at home and raise their children? will they be forced to enter a profession they could have done so independently by themselves by approaching their LA and start the registration process?

Unemployed mothers have been attending CCentres for years...why have they not been encouraged to find jobs or become cms before?
In some areas there is a huge need to have more cms because there are not enough providers
In some LAs the number of 2 year olds requiring childcare from 2013 and from 2014 is very large and those LAs will not be able to place all these children so there the need for new cms is totally justified...where I worried is in the areas where there are too many cms and not enough children to care for

The question is then why all of a sudden is this initiative coming out and funded by the govt when we are constantly told there is no money...where is this £120 m coming from??

Most CCentres have some link to their LA...why have the LAs not encouraged these unemployed mothers into finding a job before and recruited them to become cms?
In my LA cms actually work in CC while parents go to training sessions...they are called Stay and Play Plus cms, earn good money and are constantly being recruited by our childminding association

ncma is working on this project with Barnados'...this is a renowned charity that works for poor children and families...so it is obvious who is being targeted and no one is against these families finding jobs
ncma is also working with NCB to use EYPs to engage with 'disadvantaged families' to improve the HLE (much mentioned by Truss when she refers to the EPPE project in her speeches) by using Early Years Professionals into supporting these families

So I doubt many are against women finding jobs and using their skills as you describe ...it is the way it has come out and if ncma feel this is a good scheme why keep it quiet and not explain the benefit that will result from this initiative... at first the reaction is that it will disadvantage our businesses

Once again I feel many have ignored the small print recently...it has been obvious this was happening, what we did not know is that ncma is involved

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Many cms in my area seem unaware or unconcerned about all these possible changes, how can I arouse their interest and spur them into action? I need bunyip, sarah n or simona to come talk to them:)

You are in my area. NPF representation is close to you too.

What do you need help with? the changes are widely publicized but some people bury their heads and think it won't affect them.

There is a SW Forum in Bristol on 11th May, all this will be debated again I have no doubt so why not get these childminders to come along. I can send you the booking form if you pm me and there is some fun training too..

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Why childminders? They could as easily get them to work for old people in their own homes. Lots of parents have to give up work to look after elderly relatives. Get the unemployed helping the high proportion of older people in our society. Where will all this madness end? :angry:

Because there will be a demand with the 2 year old funding growing to its full extent Sept 15

[Simona]

Apart from the pilots going on now the first wave of 2 year olds, 130,000, come in September 2013
The next wave of 130,000 comes in Sept 2014 not 2015
This will explain the need to recruit more cms...as long as they are recruited where there is a need and not in areas there are enough cms

You can always find out more by looking at the consultancy company the DfE has employed to help LAs with placing 2 year olds...
the consultant is called James Hampsell and his company Dermott MacDonald (NWorld did a big article on them recently) I will go and make sure I got the company name correct
I heard him talk about his work at the Daycare Trust conference in Dec 2012 with Truss and the DfE

Chatterbox...once again your reply gives me the impression you as NPF know more than you are allowed to say??
I cannot believe ncma would have embarked on this initiative without the NPF approval?

[bunyip]

You are in my area. NPF representation is close to you too.

What do you need help with? the changes are widely publicized but some people bury their heads and think it won't affect them.

There is a SW Forum in Bristol on 11th May, all this will be debated again I have no doubt so why not get these childminders to come along. I can send you the booking form if you pm me and there is some fun training too..

I too have a regional forum invitation for May. I'm undecided as to whether I attend. I am deeply concerned that regional forum is becoming a Trojan horse for decisions made somewhere within pacey HQ. At forum we are, allegedly, "consulted". Then pacey does what pacey wants and assures us that we all had our say in it, whilst completely ignoring the concerns raised at forum.

I really don't know that I have a day to waste on making the executive feel good about themselves. :(

[Simona]

As committee member for the Greater London members were consulted and we told the NPF in no uncertain terms we did not want widening or rebranding...both went ahead despite overwhelming opposition

Can the NPF reps tell us why the democratic process of consultation was ignored and why the Vice chair told us 'whatever you think it will happen anyway'
It looks to me that the all structure in ncma needs to be addressed and the democratic process used
Why keep asking the reason the govt is not listening to us when ncma does exactly the same?
...still some of us continue to be loyal to ncma???

[watgem]

I would just like to say that I, m sure most have of us have nothing against the unemployed becoming cms, but its the way its been announced and carried out that is insulting, when for the last 2 or 3 years there has been no money for training, extra equipment or resources , or support that we might need or our minded children might benefit from, many of our do, s are or have been made redundant, cm groups closed down or reduced. In my area to become funded you have to go through so many hoops, I.ve done a nig one by getting my degree, but unable to jump through the others due to lack of funds and no funds from the la to be able to help me, many cms are trying to be funded but the process varies accordingbto where you live. Yet they have managed to find funds for this scenario, I just feel that it could have been handled better and perhaps better timing and financial and other support to existing cms may have been fairer and more courteous

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Gosh I have missed a lot whilst our shopping so I will address this in one post

1. As npf we take a topic to forums and report back. Information is acted on but as with any process it takes time. I assure you Simona I do not know more than I am saying but what I do know comes from listening to the tv/Internet. I know that the 2 year old funding is here because I am in a pilot area and I have close links to my la. Please also note that this is a Nick Clegg imitative and not Truss as you mentioned in our pm discussion.

2. Everyone's opinions are listened too but not every area says the same. On the matter on name change, how many people actually gave their views at forums, voted online and in paper form? How many read their who minds and auctioned anything they agreed or disagreed with?

3. Simona you say that your area was against the name change but again that was not the same in every area.

Rather than slam Pacey please be assured that not everything the board recommends the board gets. Just ask npf's how many weekends we went to Bromley in October/November last year?

I note how many people are contributing to this discussion and it is indicative of members being interested enough to participate.

A comment was made about the new plans. I do not know anymore than anyone else and am waiting eagerly for Pacey to announce their plans but I do not expect them to do it until everything is in place and finalised.

As to us being consulted on the new proposed scheme, why is it needed? It is another branch of funding and training and we are not consulted on running development officers as it isn't needed.

I am unsure why a development officer is imaking untrue and inappropriate comments but as you have brought it to the attention of management I see no need to being it to them again, unless you are still not satisfied and in which car you need to speak to your npf.

Lastly please can I ask that you do attend you regional meetings and let your voice be heard because if people demonstrate with their feet instead of constructive action then who will represent childminders at government level with effect?

Note all this is my option only and information acquired through various means

[AgentTink]

I am actually really offended by both Rickysmiths and Bunyips comments on this thread.

I am glad to know that my comments are seen as "bellyaching" and "being prejudiced" - i take great offense to both of these sweeping comments.

This whole issue is not about the fact that people on job seekers allowance may wish to become CM's, it is the fact that this government believes that our job is so easy and does not take dedication or a actual passion to be in it.

I am going to stop discussing this topic now with this forum as I am personally very upset by this proposal however feel that anything I say on this topic will be classed as me being a prejudiced/bellyaching.

[Simona]

I stand corrected as I obviously thought NPF had more power I gave them credit for

It maybe Clegg's initiative (I don't see that it matters whose idea it is but in truth it was started by the Labour party when in power) but hotly pursued by the DfE and the several emails in my inbox from them tell me they are keen for the scheme to work. I also questioned Truss herself and the DfE on the topic at the conference on 4th December as well as other meetings I had with them

I am not pleased with ncma...to put it mildly... so I am asking for answers alongside many others cms...why should we? because we are the paying members, that is not slamming to me it is accountability
I agree with the statement made below by watgem...all of a sudden all this money is found when we have struggled recently with less and less support

I am not clear on your statement on training and development officer and who is making what remarks...but no need to discuss here
As for attending meetings, being pro active, doing surveys etc etc...I think my actions and commitment to the cminding workforce speak louder than words

It may just be that ncma got this wrong judging by the discussions and concerns...no one is perfect, lets see how they address this matter...everyone's opinion and feelings here matter very much
I am happy to wait for the clarification next week...then I will act accordingly

[rickysmiths]

Many points in your reply Rickysmiths which highlight the variety on offer by LAs and the many unanswered questions we have

I have a Foundation Degree and an outstanding grade...have I registered interest in funding 2 year olds?
yes but I have to re join the network (and all paperwork involved which is nothing but duplication of what I evidence to Ofsted) and become Accredited (which I was when I left the network years ago) and do quality assurance which doubles what I have already

the rate for 2 year olds is £6.10 rather good... but drops to £3.50 (same rate as 6 years ago when I left the network) when the child is 3...so many cms have to think about sustainability

That may be in your area but we are paid a lot more than that for 3-4yr olds nearly £2ph more


Will I ever look after 2 year olds? ...not really because they are allocated to network cms at present but later on it may be different when 130,000 need a space and then another 130,000 in 2014
My LA also allow satisfactory cms to deliver the funding to 2 year olds...so have reshuffled the DfE criteria and basket of measures...if they want to ignore good/outstanding cms in favour of the satisfactory then let them get on with it

This again is not always the case, there are no Networks in my County, they were disbanded as expensive and selective. Yes our County has reduced the inspection requirement to Satisfactory but it has always been that for all other settings anyway so they have put cms on the same level. However we do have to have a min of a level 3 qualification. Our County had to do something because out of 1600 cm they only had 35 accredited ones last year.


In my view if ncma get involved in this training of unemployed mothers the LAs will lose out...my LA and many others have qualified and experienced consultants with a mixture of training on offer...new cms still need LA training in Safeguarding and LAs also have local knowledge of cms

Again it depends where you live and all our NCMA staff left over a year ago and the LA staff have been cut to the bone. In reality as a new cm to the County 9 years ago when the County was flush with Early Years people I never saw one of them never mind was offered any support as a new minder in the County. I had to find out everything for myself. Safeguarding Training will always be available because LAs have many staff who need it it may just cost more that is all. All our Training used to be free including First Aid but we have had to pay varying amounts for it for the last 4 years and First Aid is now £70 to £100.


Only one day nursery chain is now 'considering' whether to raise ratios after consulting with parents if the higher ratio is passed
Both Busybees and Kidsunlimited who backed Truss have now withdrawn
Preschools are not raising ratios hence their petition

I will wait and see I suspect all the Day Nurseries will raise their numbers and lower their staff once they are allowed because they will make more profits. This is the one thing we need to happen because then Childminders with lower numbers of children my become a more attractive choice for many parents even if it is a bit more expensive.


There is no one agency model...as we know from replies from the DfE many models are being developed and suggested by those sitting with the DfE...community and social enterprises as well as commercial ones (Truss' model) versus Sue Gregory (cms hubs in CCentres)

what ncma's initiative has in common is that they can recruit and train new cms to fulfil govt policy??...we will of course find out next week what it is all about...especially as they are doing it with Barnardo's and we can then decide if it is good or otherwise for cms

I must say if new cms are to be trained then I feel happier that someone like Pacey who have experience of childminding and how it works be involved. At least those who decide to do it and stick with it will start with a firm solid background and have good support and might stand a chance at doing a good job.


Read what the new associations can do even if they are not agencies and you will find the answer in the small print and some similarities
When these cms are up and running who will support them...ncma or the LA? will they be in an agency? employed or self employed?

Who knows anymore than any of us know what we will be doing.

I feel cms are not scared but frustrated at the drip drip of info and if the vast majority wish to remain independent, as it appears, we are being sidelined by all talk of agencies

I know that other cms will have their own system in place with their LA...and that is where all this has started from...lack of a standardised system to equally support all cms across England instead of a two tier of cms (network and non network)
now we can look forward to agency cms and unemployed mothers joining in as well as Ofsted registered independent cms and those non Ofsted registered independent and, last but not least, employed cms and self employed cms

I find this frankly and offensive statement. I was an unemployed mum when I registered as a childminder solely as a way to stay at home with my own children and to earn enough to pay for one holiday in Cornwall every year and to buy all the Birthday and Christmas Presents. I had no experience in Childcare other than having my own children and I certainly had no Childcare qualifications. Frankly so what if they have the get up and go to become a Childminder and they can make the grade good luck to them. They will be starting better qualified and supported than I ever was and I reckon I haven't done badly in 20 years.


So I would not apply 'scared' to our feelings at the moment but rather utter confusion until all is clarified...the waiting game will be over soon.

I think it will be a long time before we find out all the detail of what is planned for us.

The thing about Pacey training new childminders is a tiny thing. In fact I know several new childminders who are doing their CYPOP5 and First Aid and Child Protection Training with them now so why is this plan so different? It is just that the Government are releasing funds to pay for it? So what my Level 3 Diploma Children and Young People's Workforce was funded to the tune of £1500 by the Government just last year along with 13 other cm in our County.

[rickysmiths]

:( I have to say this thread leaves me feeling quite cold and very saddened by the trends going on at pacey and by the attitude of some of my fellow-CMs. (I'll address the pacey issue later.)

Their seems to be a rather unpleasant streak of prejudice here, suggesting that "The Unemployed" are somehow not fit to become CMs. I fully understand regime tactics in wanting a lot more childcarers in order to relieve the unemployment statistics and meet their targets for 2yo provision. But that does not give us the right to make slurs against a whole swathe of individuals with very real and varied talents. However much they are statistically doctored, unemployment figures remain a measurement of the failure of capitalist regimes; they are not a measure of the moral fibre of its individual victims.

Am I to take it that any current CM who took up CMing to get out of the dole queue is, therefore, not fit to do the job? I suspect many of us went into CMing to fit around our home/family circumstances, rather than as the end goal in a lengthy career path. And what of those people who progress from their school studies with the single intention of pursuing childcare as a career: well lo and behold, aren't they just the very people who are repeatedly sneered at by CMs as "teenage nursery staff"? Shame on us. :(

So is it true or false that "anyone can become a CM" ? Well, no - not strictly true. We have a system of regulation that decides: suitable people, suitable premises, minimum standards, requirements, training. We are all subject to these regulations - and so is anyone else who wants to gain registration. In fact: anyone entering CMing today may well have to achieve more than some of our longer-established colleagues. Or perhaps we should demand the government 'raises the bar' when it comes to regulation? But then how many existing CMs might fail to make the grade? Let's face it, the basic entry level training requirements are currently pretty minimal.

So are we to say we are somehow better than these people who are currently having their potential wasted by the plague of unemployment? Despite what you're reading in the Sun and the Daily Mail, most of these people want to find work. (if anything, it's the profit-hungry businesses and so-called "wealth-creators" that actually need a pool of unemployed in order to suppress demands for decent wages.)

Do so many CMs really see "The Unemployed" as some undeserving underclass of sub-humans or are they just not middle-class enough to look after children - even if they can prove themselves by meeting the very same regulatory standards that many of us have achieved. And before we sneer at people who are "living on benefits", we might actually take a look at ourselves. Up to 90% of the UK working population are living on some form of benefit or government support. A lot of CMs rely on Tax Credits, never mind the number of us who would lose vital clients if they had no TCs or childcare vouchers to help with our fees - our income.

Shame on us. :(

Well said. Indeed as I have said in another reply. I was a mum of two and found myself unemployed. My SIL became a cm to stay at home with her two and I thought 'what a good idea' on top of being asked by a friend if I could look after her daughter. So I registered as a cm. Unemployed, no childcare qualifications, (though professional qualifications at a much higher level than the present Level ). I did complete the Level 3 last year though so I could offer the 3-4 year funded places to my parents. I also don't like all this angst towards the unemployed,

it is frankly nasty and not what I would have expected from so called 'professional ' and all excepting childminders. I am ashamed that fellow cms can be so judgmental.

[rickysmiths]

I hear what you are saying Bunyip about people's perception of "the unemployed" but I feel that if these unemployed women who attend Children's Centres wanted to be childminders, why haven't they done it before - is it because of start up costs and spending money that they don't have on medical checks, first aid courses, childminding courses, equipment etc - if so why can't the government go back to giving a grant as they used to 8 years ago, when I re-registered - £300 paid for all of the above, plus a years membership to NCMA & stationery - but I re-registered because I wanted to do it, when I self reflected I realised that it was the only job I had done that gave me job satisfaction - you could say I had a calling to return.

Will forcing people into childminding give us the high standards we are all striving to achieve - I agree that a great many unemployed people are educated and find themselves unemployed because of the recession, but you have to "want" to do it to do it not be made to.

I know Truss has got her childcare ideas from Europe which we don't all agree with, but I think it is time that the Employment Ministers looked to Europe in particular Denmark (my uncle lives there) - my uncle had to give up work due to disability (caused by the repetitive nature of his work), however after just 6 months on disability benefit he was found work in an Old People's Care Home (which are fantastic places - not like our "waiting to die" institutions!) as a handyman/gardener - he worked 20 hours a week but was paid a full time wage.

In Denmark the churchyards are immaculate, the streets clean, State Care homes (not private BUPA ones) like top hotels with restaurants so good that they open to non-residents, they have libraries and gyms etc. People shouldn't be paid benefits to sit at home and do nothing, they should be paid volunteers making a difference to the community. This wouldn't take jobs away from people because no-one does these jobs, these people would need childcare and we all would be happy.

Anyway - that's me sorted out unemployment and childcare for the morning - better get off my soapbox before someone shoots me down.

Has anyone said people will be forced to become childminders?

[Simona]

Thank you for highlighting the differences between LAs which I was already aware of...152 each with its own set of rules, what I am in favour of is 'standardised' service to serve cms equally and inclusively

I am glad you are paid more for your FE...that shows the madness of leaving the LAs to do the funding formula which the DfE is now going to put a stop to...I don't think that is fair and it is the very reason may cms have stayed out of networks

The statement about 'unemployed' mother was not meant to be offensive. I have stated clearly I have nothing against mothers returning to work as long as they want to, can choose which job to do and use their skills and not forced into childcare or being cms.....
I was trying to highlight the various tiers of cms that we could become in addition to what is already available

Nursery/preschools already have the power to increase their ratio 1:13 if a graduate is available...even the DfE in its consultation is asking why they do not do it now????

ncma offers no more challenging training than LAs do, I agree they know their stuff so do LAs but e-training is not my cup of tea and that is why I attend self funded challenging sessions which I enjoy....total cost last year= well over £1000 and greatly beneficial
My degree too was funded by the govt...more precisely the Graduate Leader Fund

I know what the new initiative is about ...or at least I think I have a good idea and let me assure you I am well aware of what the future holds for cms...I am ready for the challenge ...are you??

Lets also be clear about one thing: things stated in a forum can be misinterpreted and misjudged... I am more than sure no one here is trying to offend anyone or be unprofessional...I also believe you said we were 'belly aching'?
Let me assure you again the last thing that hurts at the moment is my 'belly'!

[rickysmiths]

Thanks for that thought Bunyip

I think that this requires clarification
I am not against unemployed mothers finding jobs or becoming cms

I am against the way this is being done now obviously in line with govt policy to get women back to work and off benefits?
what of those mothers who wish to stay at home and raise their children? will they be forced to enter a profession they could have done so independently by themselves by approaching their LA and start the registration process?

Unemployed mothers have been attending CCentres for years...why have they not been encouraged to find jobs or become cms before?
In some areas there is a huge need to have more cms because there are not enough providers
In some LAs the number of 2 year olds requiring childcare from 2013 and from 2014 is very large and those LAs will not be able to place all these children so there the need for new cms is totally justified...where I worried is in the areas where there are too many cms and not enough children to care for

The question is then why all of a sudden is this initiative coming out and funded by the govt when we are constantly told there is no money...where is this £120 m coming from??

Most CCentres have some link to their LA...why have the LAs not encouraged these unemployed mothers into finding a job before and recruited them to become cms?
In my LA cms actually work in CC while parents go to training sessions...they are called Stay and Play Plus cms, earn good money and are constantly being recruited by our childminding association

ncma is working on this project with Barnados'...this is a renowned charity that works for poor children and families...so it is obvious who is being targeted and no one is against these families finding jobs
ncma is also working with NCB to use EYPs to engage with 'disadvantaged families' to improve the HLE (much mentioned by Truss when she refers to the EPPE project in her speeches) by using Early Years Professionals into supporting these families

So I doubt many are against women finding jobs and using their skills as you describe ...it is the way it has come out and if ncma feel this is a good scheme why keep it quiet and not explain the benefit that will result from this initiative... at first the reaction is that it will disadvantage our businesses

Once again I feel many have ignored the small print recently...it has been obvious this was happening, what we did not know is that ncma is involved

Do you know if this has been extended to other professions? I know about this one because I am a member of pacey.

[Simona]

So am I a member of ncma and eagerly awaiting their clarification...has it been extended to other professions? ask ncma, many of us have!

[SammySplodger]

ncma offers no more challenging training than LAs do, I agree they know their stuff so do LAs but e-training is not my cup of tea

I have concerns about e-training - especially for first aid - I don't actually see how you can do it properly 'virtually'. In 2008/9 I did all face-to-face training. On re-registering, most has been e-training and I have to admit I have really struggled with it. I know I'm not the only one - my CYPOP5 course assessor told me there were lots of people taking many months to complete it.

[rickysmiths]

Thank you for highlighting the differences between LAs which I was already aware of...152 each with its own set of rules, what I am in favour of is 'standardised' service to serve cms equally and inclusively

I am glad you are paid more for your FE...that shows the madness of leaving the LAs to do the funding formula which the DfE is now going to put a stop to...I don't think that is fair and it is the very reason may cms have stayed out of networks

You are assuming that all childminders ahd the choice to join one in the first place and that was most definitely not the case in our County. There were very few very exclusive ones and that is why they were eventually stopped.

The statement about 'unemployed' mother was not meant to be offensive. I have stated clearly I have nothing against mothers returning to work as long as they want to, can choose which job to do and use their skills and not forced into childcare or being cms.....
I was trying to highlight the various tiers of cms that we could become in addition to what is already available

But who has said these women will be forced to be childminders? This I would think will be scheme for those who want to take it.

Nursery/preschools already have the power to increase their ratio 1:13 if a graduate is available...even the DfE in its consultation is asking why they do not do it now????

I must confess that I did not know this but maybe there are not enough Graduates in Nurseries or maybe the Nursery chains would not pay them enough?


ncma offers no more challenging training than LAs do, I agree they know their stuff so do LAs but e-training is not my cup of tea and that is why I attend self funded challenging sessions which I enjoy....total cost last year= well over £1000 and greatly beneficial
My degree too was funded by the govt...more precisely the Graduate Leader Fund

Here you go again. You assume that all LA's offer the training and some like ours do not any longer that is why they are recommending the courses offered by pacey.

I know what the new initiative is about ...or at least I think I have a good idea and let me assure you I am well aware of what the future holds for cms...I am ready for the challenge ...are you??

Well you must be one of the few, because I don't see how any of us can be fully aware of what is in store for us yet. We can hazard intelligent guesses but no one knows for sure.

Lets also be clear about one thing: things stated in a forum can be misinterpreted and misjudged... I am more than sure no one here is trying to offend anyone or be unprofessional...I also believe you said we were 'belly aching'?
Let me assure you again the last thing that hurts at the moment is my 'belly'!

I think there are issues to address but I don't think I see any thing threatening about the thought of pacey training new childminders or that the new childminders may be unemployed or that they may be getting government funding to become cms. There have been many rafts of funding over the years and some of us have been able to take advantage of them and some not. Remember all the Capital Funding a few years ago? Some cms got thousands to make improvements on their settings some of us got zero. Thats life. I think if this gives a few people a chance to improve their lot, good luck to them.

[rickysmiths]

So am I a member of ncma and eagerly awaiting their clarification...has it been extended to other professions? ask ncma, many of us have!

Sorry who are ncma?

[rickysmiths]

I have concerns about e-training - especially for first aid - I don't actually see how you can do it properly 'virtually'. In 2008/9 I did all face-to-face training. On re-registering, most has been e-training and I have to admit I have really struggled with it. I know I'm not the only one - my CYPOP5 course assessor told me there were lots of people taking many months to complete it.

If people are struggling to complete the courses then maybe that is a signal that cm is not for them.

I must confess I did CYPOP 5 as part of my Diploma last year. It took me approx 8 hours as a cm who is already working and has all their paperwork in place, I was working 50 hours a week at the time and had two children at home. I might add I do not find working on a computer that easy either.

I think they say it can take up to 6 months to complete CYPOP 5 which sounds fair to me for someone just starting out who has no working knowledge of cm.

I hate the idea that training is done online, I think meeting with other like minded people and a teacher is an unbeatable way to learn. This is why I chose to do my Diploma by attending a full Saturday Study Day once a month. However I see with my children that more and more of their academic work is done and submitted online and that is at school, doing an adult access course and at University. It is what many people are growing up with and accept as normal.

[Simona]

CPD is lots of things and training one of them...what I mean is challenging sessions, other then the more or less standard training on offer by LAs, such as conferences, seminars, workshops etc etc...training varies but not the kind I am referring to ...so not assuming anything

I believe there are 10,000 EYPs not enough for all settings but those who have one have opted for the lower ratio...I doubt legislation will change their minds
I know the situation with networks so I am not assuming anything...again 152 variations according to LAs 'themes'!!

get yourself a meeting with Truss and then you will be as clear as I am of her intentions

ncma is the association I fought to retain and until I can I will refer to it by that name

[shortstuff]

I have concerns about e-training - especially for first aid - I don't actually see how you can do it properly 'virtually'. In 2008/9 I did all face-to-face training. On re-registering, most has been e-training and I have to admit I have really struggled with it. I know I'm not the only one - my CYPOP5 course assessor told me there were lots of people taking many months to complete it.

I completed it by e-training and it took me 6 months. That was because I was working full time 12 hour night shifts and running a home. Some people cant devote all of their time to furthering themselves. Not all people. Also please don't take this as anything negative. I would just like to show that I am probably one of those people your assessor was speaking about. It was not through lack of ability or desire but just being darned exhausted at working a 12 hour night shift, 4 hours sleep, family life and then another night shift. I took my time to ensure things were done correctly. As you will probably discover that will be the same for most people that choose e-learning over actual classes that need attending. Its just the juggle and other things normally take priority. :):)

[SammySplodger]

I completed it by e-training and it took me 6 months. That was because I was working full time 12 hour night shifts and running a home. Some people cant devote all of their time to furthering themselves. Not all people. Also please don't take this as anything negative. I would just like to show that I am probably one of those people your assessor was speaking about. It was not through lack of ability or desire but just being darned exhausted at working a 12 hour night shift, 4 hours sleep, family life and then another night shift. I took my time to ensure things were done correctly. As you will probably discover that will be the same for most people that choose e-learning over actual classes that need attending. Its just the juggle and other things normally take priority. :):)

Absolutely Gail... I completely know where you are coming from. It took me 3 months, fitted around three part time jobs and my busy family life. Sounds like I had more time than you did. I worked every evening possible until the wee small hours. I wanted to get it right and even went back to amend assignments when it wasn't strictly necessary.

It was almost the same as ICP (done face to face over two weekends) and I had three years CM experience behind me. But still I found it hard. It was getting my head around what they actually wanted from each assignment. Oh and I didn't receive the course book until 3 weeks in (fairly crucial part of it :-/ ). I know that I am not alone in feeling like this, as I have read it on other Fora.

[twinkletots]

Sorry who are ncma?

I don't think there's any need to be sarcastic about the situation, that itself is not professional! Please practice what you preach, it's not nice! People should be able to have their views on the forum without sarcastic comments made back... Please refrain!

[angeldelight]

I don't think there's any need to be sarcastic about the situation, that itself is not professional! Please practice what you preach, it's not nice! People should be able to have their views on the forum without sarcastic comments made back... Please refrain!

I think a lot of people will call it NCMA for a long time to come yet ..it's like anything that changes name we just get so used to it ....I don't like tha name Pacey it reminds me of those sweets that we're out in the days when starburst were called opal fruits :laughing: they were green and white and minty ha ha ...please tell me someone remembers them ha

So for my head I still think of them as NCMA at the moment ha

Angel xxx

[rickysmiths]

I think a lot of people will call it NCMA for a long time to come yet ..it's like anything that changes name we just get so used to it ....I don't like tha name Pacey it reminds me of those sweets that we're out in the days when starburst were called opal fruits :laughing: they were green and white and minty ha ha ...please tell me someone remembers them ha

So for my head I still think of them as NCMA at the moment ha

Angel xxx

Oh I remember those sweets Angel! For the record I think the name pacey is naff but it is what we have for now whether we like it or not.

[rickysmiths]

I don't think there's any need to be sarcastic about the situation, that itself is not professional! Please practice what you preach, it's not nice! People should be able to have their views on the forum without sarcastic comments made back... Please refrain!

I am sorry I didn't mean to offend it was a reaction to one and I shouldn't have done that.

[angeldelight]

Oh I remember those sweets Angel! For the record I think the name pacey is naff but it is what we have for now whether we like it or not.

Does that mean we are getting old :laughing:

Angel xx

[SammySplodger]

Yes! green and white mints...
But also: Dawson's Creek :-)

[rickysmiths]

Does that mean we are getting old :laughing:

Angel xx

No Angel. Having just celebrated my 58th birthday I have never felt younger! Only 2 years before I get my bus pass and I will be hopping off everywhere!

[bunyip]

My reason for being disappointed (yet again) with pacey is that they have decided to do this ABC Pathway scheme without even pretending to consult us members. I have no real comments to make for or against pacey training new CMs.

There is nothing we can do or, for that matter, really should do to prevent other people becoming CMs (unless we wish to go down the highly expensive route of becoming a 'profession' in the true sense and having an association that restricts access to the 'profession' - something which I suspect would've prevented most of us from joining.) Yes, it may well be more comforting to know that pacey/Barnardos will be running this in preference to purely profit-oriented training companies.

But it is a major decision and is part of a chain of events which seem to indicate that pacey "know what is best" for members and will do what pacey wants with little regard for its members. This is going to become a vicious circle. The more pacey ignores the voice of its members, the fewer members will bother to speak up, since our voices are falling on deaf ears.

It is a huge calculation, and one that is pushing people closer to the brink of leaving the organisation. :(

[bunyip]

Just to say I agree with those who've said it would've been better for the Whitehall regime to commit ongoing support, funded training, anything to keep our costs down - rather than this mass recruitment drive.

But the point is that wouldn't meet regime targets.

A commitment to on-going support costs them far more money than a system which gets new CMs up and running, then leaves them to sink or swim by their own resources in the 'marketplace'.

Moreover, government can only hope to deliver the 2yo provision and drive down childcare costs by this sort of supply-side solution.

I'm not saying it's good. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that's the way it is. :(

[bunyip]

And another thing......................... (I'll shut up in a minute :rolleyes: .)

....................I find the whole training thing quite baffling.

I know online learning can be a fantastic tool, but not sure it is always appropriate for teaching first aid. The Red Cross and St John Ambulance made a conscious decision some years ago to make the courses totally "hands on". It was deliberately intended to be accessible to trainees with no functional skills whatsoever in written language or maths - and many lives have been saved as a result. Also, as the result of extensive research, it was found that "hands on" training encouraged people to be proactive in a real casualty situation. No way can e-learning simulate that.

CYPOP5. Having not done it, I'd be interested in knowing why it is taking so long to complete. To be brutally honest, it is the equivalent of 6% of an A-level qualification. Why is it taking 6 months to do a tiny fraction of an A-level, when school students can complete 4 A-levels in a little over 18 months? I'm not trying to put down anyone who is doing the CYPOP5 - it's a genuine question, cos I'm interested to find out. :confused:

[Simona]

Will these articles make any sense?

This one mention Mott McDonald which I referred to previously but called them Dermott...apologies now all clear

Sarah Teather confirms multi-million pound contract to support two-year-old nursery places | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/1137657/Sarah-Teather-confirms-multi-million-pound-contract-support-two-year-old-nursery-places/?DCMP=ILC-SEARCH)

and this is from PLA
VSC funding of £60m is 'great news for the sector' | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/1157953/VSC-funding-60m-great-news-sector/?DCMP=ILC-SEARCH)

and this one came out a while back and is about funding the scheme
Charity organisations split £60m | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/1057598/Charity-organisations-split-60m/)

[Optimalstar]

Sammysplodger, not everyone is required to do cypop5 or whatever it's called. I'm in Hartlepool and in my opinion the training isn't great. It's mainly focused on what you need to register, first aid, safe guarding and a little on the EYFS which if you're not familiar with is a complete waste of time. I'm a qualified teacher with early years experience but if I wasn't I imagine i'd have struggled as I'd have had to go off and research it by myself.

[Mouse]

I think a lot of people will call it NCMA for a long time to come yet ..it's like anything that changes name we just get so used to it ....I don't like tha name Pacey it reminds me of those sweets that we're out in the days when starburst were called opal fruits :laughing: they were green and white and minty ha ha ...please tell me someone remembers them ha

So for my head I still think of them as NCMA at the moment ha

Angel xxx

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pacers+sweets&hl=en&rlz=1C1GGGE_enGB507GB507&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=lpliUf64L9KN7Ab_xoCACA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643#imgrc=3G_2iw9kBTUhtM%3A%3BsweIgdKeBdLtyM%3 Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sweetyguy.co.uk%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2013%252F02%252FThe-golden-age-of-British-sweets-8.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sweetyguy.co.uk%252 Fpacers%252F%3B576%3B416

I don't remember them...which is unusual for me. I know most sweets :blush::laughing:

[rickysmiths]

And another thing......................... (I'll shut up in a minute :rolleyes: .)

....................I find the whole training thing quite baffling.

I know online learning can be a fantastic tool, but not sure it is always appropriate for teaching first aid. The Red Cross and St John Ambulance made a conscious decision some years ago to make the courses totally "hands on". It was deliberately intended to be accessible to trainees with no functional skills whatsoever in written language or maths - and many lives have been saved as a result. Also, as the result of extensive research, it was found that "hands on" training encouraged people to be proactive in a real casualty situation. No way can e-learning simulate that.

CYPOP5. Having not done it, I'd be interested in knowing why it is taking so long to complete. To be brutally honest, it is the equivalent of 6% of an A-level qualification. Why is it taking 6 months to do a tiny fraction of an A-level, when school students can complete 4 A-levels in a little over 18 months? I'm not trying to put down anyone who is doing the CYPOP5 - it's a genuine question, cos I'm interested to find out. :confused:

I agree with you one the first aid front however a company in our County now offers online modules for first aid with one session face to face for half a day instead of the 2 full days. I know from other cms who come to our cm group that this will be attractive because they moan like crazy about giving up 2 days every 3 years. I don't understand really to me 2 days every three years is nothing but there you go. I think first aid is so important that my children did it at 16 (well they did it a lot earlier at scouts bit their first formal qualification) and before they were allowed to babysit and now at 18 they have the full 12 hour Pead Cert. Dh and Ds are off to renew theirs in a couple of weeks.

I did Cypop 5 as part of the full Diploma last year. It took me 8 hours to complete it as a Unit. As an experienced and already working childminder I had already got some of the work done for the business part, Policies and Procedures, Risk Assessment, Contracts, Info forms etc. It took me 15 months to complete the full Diploma attending a monthly full Sat Study day which meant we had approx 1 unit a month to complete though some units like CYPOP 5 are big units. I did this whilst I was working 50 hours a week, plus 8 hours on a Sat and Sun and babysitting one evening a week. I also have two of my own and during this time one was in first year at Uni and went into melt down in the January! My son was in the middle of AS Levels and we had a big issue with school and a bullying episode concerning his whole friendship group. I do think it should be possible to complete CYPOP 5 in 3 months with the correct guidance, the trouble is that this tuition is often not part of the training. CYPOP 5 covers all aspects of starting up a Childminding business, it is not difficult at all more laborious as in fact the whole Level 3 is and it is very repeatative which is tiresome, the work itself is not difficult at all it is the format that makes it a challenge especially if you have never done any kind of academic work before.

[rickysmiths]

Sammysplodger, not everyone is required to do cypop5 or whatever it's called. I'm in Hartlepool and in my opinion the training isn't great. It's mainly focused on what you need to register, first aid, safe guarding and a little on the EYFS which if you're not familiar with is a complete waste of time. I'm a qualified teacher with early years experience but if I wasn't I imagine i'd have struggled as I'd have had to go off and research it by myself.

It is a requirement that it is completed along with First Aid and Child Protection Training before you can become registered now. See EYFS September 2012.

[rickysmiths]

My reason for being disappointed (yet again) with pacey is that they have decided to do this ABC Pathway scheme without even pretending to consult us members. I have no real comments to make for or against pacey training new CMs.

There is nothing we can do or, for that matter, really should do to prevent other people becoming CMs (unless we wish to go down the highly expensive route of becoming a 'profession' in the true sense and having an association that restricts access to the 'profession' - something which I suspect would've prevented most of us from joining.) Yes, it may well be more comforting to know that pacey/Barnardos will be running this in preference to purely profit-oriented training companies.

But it is a major decision and is part of a chain of events which seem to indicate that pacey "know what is best" for members and will do what pacey wants with little regard for its members. This is going to become a vicious circle. The more pacey ignores the voice of its members, the fewer members will bother to speak up, since our voices are falling on deaf ears.

It is a huge calculation, and one that is pushing people closer to the brink of leaving the organisation. :(


I do hear what you are saying, however having been a Member for some 18 years now I must say we are consulted far more and have more opportunity to voice our opinions that we have in the past. I never remember being fully consulted on all decisions made by NCMA. I think sometimes we have to trust that they are making choices on our behalf and for the better of the Association. I do know with just Childminder and Nanny membership they were in huge financial difficulties. It seems to me this Training Grant is actually a positive way to gain valuable income and to highlight the success of their Training to encourage other users and increase the revenue stream. I don't have a problem with their training new childminders where ever they come from because I feel at least these new minders will be given a start via an organization that has a vast experience of what childminding is all about. Much better to my mind than a local School or even Children's Centre setting up as an agency with no experience of Childminding offering to train new childminders, that does put the fear of God in me for the future of quality of childminding.

[SammySplodger]

It is a requirement that it is completed along with First Aid and Child Protection Training before you can become registered now. See EYFS September 2012.

Indeed - I still had to do it, even though I was re-registering and already had my ICP certificate and three years experience. And I had to pay for it myself too :-/
I had no additional tuition at all - just the online training. The format of the info isn't great and there were technical issues which meant new training modules didn't 'open' (which wasn't clear, caused confusion and delays).
I have to say, I felt it was a laborious, repetitive, waste of my time, constantly quoting Sheila RL.
At my pre-reg Mrs O looked at both certificates and said: yes, they are basically the same, but confirmed that I still had to do CYPOP5.

[Optimalstar]

I stand corrected Rickysmith. I registered a couple of years ago and the last cohort of people registering didn't seem to do anything different to what we did.

In reply to whoever questioned whether early years settings would pay the rate for a graduate in order to have the increased ratio. I was employed by a private nursery as a graduate but not at the rate I'd have got had I returned to teaching. However I gained other benefits. I chose my hours which were as flexible as I needed at the time. My eldest was born with Downs and was out of school more times than in so returning to teaching was problematic as with a young baby at the time even supply teaching was limited. My baby came with me to work saving me the cost of the childcare I would have paid if I'd returned to working anywhere else. So no they couldn't ( or wouldn't) pay me a graduate salary but I gained in other ways which made it an attractive option still.

[Simona]

As you are aware ncma made a short statement following the publication of the initiative to recruit unemployed mothers as cms
This included the promise of further clarification this week
They have just announced that no clarification will be given because their partners in the scheme still have to finalise some details with the DfE

More details will be given as and when available

[tori4]

just found out that our local children centre (that chuck our child-minding group out b4 Christmas) are no offering free training in childcare to unemployed parents on benefits with children under 5..

and not surprising our DO no nothing about the scheme or what the children centre are offering

[Simona]

If you google Barnardo's - Childminders it will take you to this website
www.**************/partners/paceys_partners-1/barnardos.aspx but you cannot access the contents

There is this short statement
Under Priority 1 of The National Prospectus Grants Programme 2013/2015 Barnardo's and Pacey have received funding for this scheme

[The Juggler]

well if social enterprise money is going into this programme the agency idea makes total sense to me know - or the idea behind introducing them. No way ofsted would cope with these huge numbers of people registering, they need the agencies to accommodate them.

As others have pointed out, where are all the extra children to look after going to come from? :panic::panic::panic:

oh, and lo and behold, all those registered as CM's but with no children to look after and no money will no longer show on the unemployed statistics. :rolleyes::panic: Further, if the worries expressed on a post the other day prove true, (about changes to limits on income for self employed people and being able to claim unemployment/low employment benefits) then the only way to receive income support benefits will be to deregister, or keep registration and do without the benefits? What a choice - I wonder what they will choose :rolleyes:?? Back to unemployment then

[watgem]

Juggler if thevposts about the self employed having limits placed on them claiming low pay benefits I think many existing cms may have to deregister, if it wasn, t for tax credits topping up my income I certainly wouldn, t be able to continue as a cm, but it would be difficult for me to get a job where I live that would give me enough hours iyswim. My dh has been saying for a long time that he thinks the govt. Are trying to get rid of cms and I'm beginning to think he's right.

[phoenix2010]

its called the "self employment minimum earnings floor" and its equivalent to 16 hours at minimum wage until your youngest child is 12 then 35 hours at minimum wage after that

theres a thread on it somewhere

[The Juggler]

Juggler if thevposts about the self employed having limits placed on them claiming low pay benefits I think many existing cms may have to deregister, if it wasn, t for tax credits topping up my income I certainly wouldn, t be able to continue as a cm, but it would be difficult for me to get a job where I live that would give me enough hours iyswim. My dh has been saying for a long time that he thinks the govt. Are trying to get rid of cms and I'm beginning to think he's right.

really. do you think they have a goal to do that ultimately?? If this is the case, why are they hatching a plot to encourage unemployed people to register - to prove that the qualilty of care WILL drop as any old Tom, Dick or Harry (passionate or not) will be CM'ing and overall standards will drop? Then they will say nurseries are the only way of ensuring quality as they are led by managers with higher qualifications and are monitored because they are working as a team, and we CM's will only have badly qualified agency staff to guide and lead us and no early years teams :panic: TBH wouldn't put that plot past this government. :angry:

What I meant in my original post though hon was that although any benefits change like this will affect lots of current CM's, if they are going to use CM' ing to get/encourage those on long term benefits/unemployment to get back to work, then unless there is plenty of work to go about those more used to just relying on benefits are not going to faff about with signing on, signing off when work is slow/picks up - because of the delays to their benefits that this can cause. Unless they are able to claim some benefit whilst working as a CM on low income they will end up back as unemployed - because they will be better off. Don't see how this will help the governments aims long term.

[Simona]

In some areas the 2 year olds that will require funding are far too many and there are not enough cms to take them on or enough spaces in nurseries/preschools....hence the reason the DfE may be altering the space required in the EYFS and the 'expansion' low interest loans we heard about a few months ago targeted at day care and maybe why they are also thinking of allowing 'satisfactory' cms to draw the funding and also saying cms do not need to belong to a network to deliver funding??

I agree that new cms are needed in some areas and that is what was asked of ncma to clarify: will they recruit cms in all areas or just where there is a need??
Barnardo's also run services for children in CCentres and their work is described as 'innovative and creative' (same words as in the Agency policy just published) aimed at taking children out of poverty, it may be the reason those mothers are targeted for cminding?

Education | Barnardo's works with children with educational problems (http://www.barnardos.org.uk/what_we_do/our_projects/education.htm)

The consultant in charge of the 2 year old funding, James Hampsell, informed those at the conference in December that he needed 130,000 spaces by Sept and only had 47,000 then...

This is all very well planned and not anything new...it's just we only heard about it recently and yes Juggler I doubt Ofsted could cope with all that registering hence the agencies conveniently pop up to help...
I would say this is a desperate govt resorting to desperate measure...there is a difference about Barnardo's training these mothers, they are experts and have knowledge, and what the agencies may do...where is their expertise in this?
If all fails I will apply to Barnardo's for a job!

[watgem]

Good idea simona, we are not overflowing with children needing care in my area, neither are there hordes of parents of 2 year olds beating down the nursery doors for free childcare, unfortunately where I live the families that are entitled and may benefit from this scheme are the least likely to take it up, perhaps that is why our l.a make it so difficult for cms to access the ey funding because there may be too many providers

[The Juggler]

In some areas the 2 year olds that will require funding are far too many and there are not enough cms to take them on or enough spaces in nurseries/preschools....hence the reason the DfE may be altering the space required in the EYFS and the 'expansion' low interest loans we heard about a few months ago targeted at day care and maybe why they are also thinking of allowing 'satisfactory' cms to draw the funding and also saying cms do not need to belong to a network to deliver funding??
I agree that new cms are needed in some areas and that is what was asked of ncma to clarify: will they recruit cms in all areas or just where there is a need??
Barnardo's also run services for children in CCentres and their work is described as 'innovative and creative' (same words as in the Agency policy just published) aimed at taking children out of poverty, it may be the reason those mothers are targeted for cminding?

Education | Barnardo's works with children with educational problems (http://www.barnardos.org.uk/what_we_do/our_projects/education.htm)

The consultant in charge of the 2 year old funding, James Hampsell, informed those at the conference in December that he needed 130,000 spaces by Sept and only had 47,000 then...

This is all very well planned and not anything new...it's just we only heard about it recently and yes Juggler I doubt Ofsted could cope with all that registering hence the agencies conveniently pop up to help...
I would say this is a desperate govt resorting to desperate measure...there is a difference about Barnardo's training these mothers, they are experts and have knowledge, and what the agencies may do...where is their expertise in this?
If all fails I will apply to Barnardo's for a job!

but this just goes against all the supposed aims to increase the quality of childcare or break the cycle of poverty and better outcomes for disadvantagd funding - it is shown that children in quality early years care end up with better outcomes at the end of primary.

I'm all for someone qualified like Barnados training mothers (however, teaching parenting skills is very different to teaching someone to provide quality childcare - so I'd like to read more about how that training will run. Do Barandos deliver chldcare training at the moment? note to self to research that ;) but those being trained still need to be providing high quality care.

simply dropping standards to allow more to offer 2 year places and NEG funding is the wrong way to go. Apologies to any CM on here who provides quality care but got a rotten inspector and rough grading as I know there are exceptions to the rule. The way to go is to ensure that Barnados', ofsted, agency staff are retraining, supporting and reinspecting satisfactory providers more often, to get their knowledge and standard of care improved so then they can offer these funded places. :panic:

[Simona]

It does Juggler
Looks like the DfE is settling for quantity over quality (in line with her ratio idea)...some of those mothers may be excellent cms others not so
Barnardo's offer support to mothers and their children and rightly so... ncma will provide the training...magic formula and here we go...these mothers are off the unemployed list, they get less benefits and Truss brings the number of cms back to the level she thinks they ought to be before the EYFS was introduced and many left due to it???

By 2015 (election time) she will declare all is working wonders and her reforms will be history! 'Trussology' at its worst!

[Simona]

Do you think that this scheme is going to affect many unemployed people or those on benefits?
this article points to it
BBC News - Greenwich Council to give jobs to benefit cut claimants (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22143045)
cynical I know

[tori4]

Train the unempyed as CM = lower unemployment yey says goverment

Train the unemployed as CM = more CM to fill short fall of spaces for 2yr old funding - yey say Gov

Reduce the criteria for 2yr old funding = more children r offered early intervention yey say early education

BUT .......

Lack of experience = questionable standards n quality of care - :-( says early education

less unemployed = less allegeable for 2yr old funded spaces - criteria will become claiming parts of UC. :-/ upps says Gov

More agencies reg CM = loads of CM reg but not working and still being paid by Gov grants - /:-0 oh Oh says mp with red suitcase !

= Gov lose loads of money n loads of people become unemployed again - ;-# wasn't my idea say Truss


SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT PLAN TO ME

In short Gov train currently unemployed to look after their own children due to reduced criteria of 2yr old funding =

Less unemployed :-)
2yr funded spaces filled :-)

ANOTHER GREAT PLAN

All while i an independent CM smile sweetly in the corner ;-))