Teacher demanding not to work more than a 35 hour week.

[Nicola Carlyle]

Ok so on my fb newsfeed "This morning" are running a debate about the title. My response was this but just wondered what you all thought.

As a childminder who has to comply with the EYFS I know exactly how much work goes into the job of being a teacher in the early years stages. I have 14 children to plan for on a daily/weekly basis (aged from birth to 11years - NOT all the same age and similar stage to a standard classroom) and I do it by myself. I work a 60 hour week starting at 7am and closing my door to my last children at 7pm and I don't get paid anywhere near what a teacher does. I also don't have tea breaks or lunch breaks factored into my day where I am away from the children in my care. 12 hours a day in constant contact with children. Heck I even eat my lunch at the same table they do and have some wonderful conversations with them. Yes the paperwork is terribly time consuming and it does carry over to my evenings and weekends but I had thought of all the implications this would have before I signed up for the job. I think for anyone looking to be a teacher who starts work at 8.45am and finish at 3.30pm is SERIOUSLY deluded and I would question their mental state and ask why they want to be teachers in the first place. How do they expect to get their paperwork etc done in those times when from 9am-3pm is spent actually with the children? PART of their job is hands on teaching but do they honestly think that's it? I mean who do they think actually does the rest of the work? I don't think its unreasonable for a teacher to be in school from 7/7.30am and still be there at 5/5.30pm. I think they all need better training and support and all teachers should have training on time management in order to learn and understand how to manage their day along with all the paperwork involved. I also disagree with the holiday. Yes you have teacher training days which do actually include training but the other holidays you do have (all 10/12 weeks of them) are just that! It is no ones fault but your own if you choose to spend them thinking about school, planning, paperwork etc. You need to learn to switch off and if you can't then you are in the wrong job! Just because the job isn't a bunch of roses like you imagined it would be doesn't give you the right to complain about it because you misunderstood what the job entailed. Get yourself another job doing something you have researched properly. All that said I do think that being a teacher these days is extremely hard work and very demanding. It's very challenging and not everyone is cut out for it. But if I know this and I'm NOT a teacher, how come you teachers don't?

[The Juggler]

i would hope this is a very small minority of teachers who think this way. Is this 1 teacher or a a union?

Exactly echo your thoughts. you work 0900 to 1530 with kids so at least 1 hour or prep/set up plus tidy up and then paperwork/planning.

Even if you average out work in the school holidays with 0800-1800 term time hours it probably is about 38 hours per week.

[Ripeberry]

They want the rest of the hours as overtime. Get paid more then. Why can't we do that? :rolleyes:

[The Juggler]

They want the rest of the hours as overtime. Get paid more then. Why can't we do that? :rolleyes:

To be fair I do know teachers that work 0730 to 1800 then are up til midnight doing paperwork. That is unreasonable. However, I also think 35 hours with overtime for extra is equally unreasonable. A balance is needed but who really works a 35 hour week these days.

[FussyElmo]

Most teachers I know would never say this infact I think they are seriously unpaid.

I think your comments about holidays are unfair as they dont get any say about the holidays. Also they are not paid for these as such their salary is pro rata.

Also they do have 30 children for a good percentage of the day. They have to make sure every child has paperwork for infact it probably gets harder as they get older.

Also what about performance related pay would you accept less money for a child because he had been deemed as not meeting targets set by a computer.

I actually think that teachers are very much criticised and are not paid enough.

I do think the comment made about a 35 hour week is a little wrong but as with all professions they will always be the minority who ruin i.

[Koala]

As with anything there are good and bad people who take the micky at work.

I know teachers who take advantage of their 6 month PAID sickness leave:
- booking dental appointments during term time to have their wisdom teeth extracted.
- Ringing in sick and going Christmas shopping
etc... etc....
But like I said there are other teachers who don't, however, I am getting totally fed up with my 2 sons being frustrated at high school because several! of their teachers are off SICK!! At time I must admit - it makes me sick.

I really do think that teachers are on a bit of a gravy train, why shouldn't they be expected to work hard? Why shouldn't they be expected to put in the hours?
I work hard! I put in the hours!
I DO NOT GO ON STRIKE IF SOMEONE REDUCES THEIR HOURS AND MY PAY - A TEACHER WOULD.

It's time to get in THE REAL WORLD and everybody should WORK HARD! for a living.

Sorry guys i'm fed up of folk taking the :censored:

:angry: skivers do my head in :angry:

[CLL]

I have just given up teaching to childmind. I taught 150 different children each day and needed to know each of them individually, their levels and expected target grades. I marked 2 pieces of homework each week for them all as well as doing differentiated planning. I worked till 10pm most evenings, weekends and holidays. The amount of paperwork is far more than anyone outside of teaching realises. It is also a LOT harder to teach a class of 30 children, many of whom do not want to be there. I have worked in a children's centre in the past in a preschool room looking after 12 children at a time, this is also easier than teaching. Teaching is very hard work and I do not think it is respected enough or that they are paid enough (That is why I left) but if every teacher left, who would teach our next generation of children? You?

[The Juggler]

As with anything there are good and bad people who take the micky at work.

I know teachers who take advantage of their 6 month PAID sickness leave:
- booking dental appointments during term time to have their wisdom teeth extracted.
- Ringing in sick and going Christmas shopping
etc... etc....
But like I said there are other teachers who don't, however, I am getting totally fed up with my 2 sons being frustrated at high school because several! of their teachers are off SICK!! At time I must admit - it makes me sick.

I really do think that teachers are on a bit of a gravy train, why shouldn't they be expected to work hard? Why shouldn't they be expected to put in the hours?
I work hard! I put in the hours!
I DO NOT GO ON STRIKE IF SOMEONE REDUCES THEIR HOURS AND MY PAY - A TEACHER WOULD.

It's time to get in THE REAL WORLD and everybody should WORK HARD! for a living.

Sorry guys i'm fed up of folk taking the :censored:

:angry: skivers do my head in :angry:

the thing is - the majority of teachers are not shirkers, they work flippin hard. there are always skivers in any profession. Same as we hate unprofessional minders giving the rest of us a bad name, this petition is giving the majority of teachers a bad name. I know most teachers spent the majority of their holidays working.

At least in primary you have 1 class of 30 children (Ok 60 if you are in nursery). The last poster, obviously ex secondary, as she says taught 150 children per week with 300 lots of homework to mark. I could NOT do that. :panic: Teachers are amazing and they do need to be protected from working ridiculous hours - like nurses and junior doctors do - as last poster said - if they all leave - who will do it. I had experience recently of spending time in a secondary school and I was appalled at even the behaviour of the kdis in the well=behaved classes - it's a battle just to deliver the lesson never mind actually teach the kids anything :panic:

[Mouse]

Ok so on my fb newsfeed "This morning" are running a debate about the title. My response was this but just wondered what you all thought.

As a childminder who has to comply with the EYFS I know exactly how much work goes into the job of being a teacher in the early years stages. I have 14 children to plan for on a daily/weekly basis (aged from birth to 11years - NOT all the same age and similar stage to a standard classroom) and I do it by myself. I work a 60 hour week starting at 7am and closing my door to my last children at 7pm and I don't get paid anywhere near what a teacher does. I also don't have tea breaks or lunch breaks factored into my day where I am away from the children in my care. 12 hours a day in constant contact with children. Heck I even eat my lunch at the same table they do and have some wonderful conversations with them. Yes the paperwork is terribly time consuming and it does carry over to my evenings and weekends but I had thought of all the implications this would have before I signed up for the job. I think for anyone looking to be a teacher who starts work at 8.45am and finish at 3.30pm is SERIOUSLY deluded and I would question their mental state and ask why they want to be teachers in the first place. How do they expect to get their paperwork etc done in those times when from 9am-3pm is spent actually with the children? PART of their job is hands on teaching but do they honestly think that's it? I mean who do they think actually does the rest of the work? I don't think its unreasonable for a teacher to be in school from 7/7.30am and still be there at 5/5.30pm. I think they all need better training and support and all teachers should have training on time management in order to learn and understand how to manage their day along with all the paperwork involved. I also disagree with the holiday. Yes you have teacher training days which do actually include training but the other holidays you do have (all 10/12 weeks of them) are just that! It is no ones fault but your own if you choose to spend them thinking about school, planning, paperwork etc. You need to learn to switch off and if you can't then you are in the wrong job! Just because the job isn't a bunch of roses like you imagined it would be doesn't give you the right to complain about it because you misunderstood what the job entailed. Get yourself another job doing something you have researched properly. All that said I do think that being a teacher these days is extremely hard work and very demanding. It's very challenging and not everyone is cut out for it. But if I know this and I'm NOT a teacher, how come you teachers don't?


Blimey, you don't have much respect for teachers, do you?

I find this comment particularly amusing:

It is no ones fault but your own if you choose to spend them (holidays) thinking about school, planning, paperwork etc. You need to learn to switch off and if you can't then you are in the wrong job!

I guess you've described just about every childminder I know! I spend a lot of my holidays, days off & free time thinking about childminding, running through activities in my head, or picking up new ideas from things I read or hear. Are you saying it's our "fault" we put so much energy into out jobs? Should we be switching off the minute the last child walks out the door...and if we don't, we're in the wrong job? And here's me thinking it was dedication :rolleyes:

[Nicola Carlyle]

I am going to stick my neck on the line and say YES I will be teaching my children! As their mother it is my job. I know that most of what my children know is because of me and the things that we do as a family. As a parent who has fought tooth and nail for her child when it comes to her education I can honestly say I am fed up of teachers lazy, I don't care attitude. Teachers who have the attitude of she is where she is academically and according to my chart, I have no concerns therefore I don't need to encourage her to achieve anymore. Never mind the fact she's bored out her skull and taking a huge confidence drop. I know not everyone will have the same opinion but I do have to then question why so many people become teachers if they have such an issue with whats expected of them? At my daughters school there are at least 4 adults to every classroom. I remember the days when there was just one and I do understand what is being said with regards to teachers having their holidays unpaid but then technically they do get them paid as there salary is pro rata so they still have money coming in. If its so bad why don't they get a summer job stacking shelves in tescos or something like lots of other people have to? They do know all this before they sign up for the job. I just get so fed up with teachers moaning constantly about their job. I fully appreciate that its extremely hard work and demanding but if your not cut out for it then move onto something else.

[Nicola Carlyle]

I guess you've described just about every childminder I know! I spend a lot of my holidays, days off & free time thinking about childminding, running through activities in my head, or picking up new ideas from things I read or hear. Are you saying it's our "fault" we put so much energy into out jobs? Should we be switching off the minute the last child walks out the door...and if we don't, we're in the wrong job? And here's me thinking it was dedication :rolleyes:

I absolutely understand what you are saying and yes of course its dedication. What you have just said describes me to but then I am fully aware of having a work/life balance and if things get to much during your time off then you need to learn to switch it off for a while. I don't think it matters what job you do. You will always be thinking about it in some way shape or form but its not healthy to let it take over your life. And yes - if your job is to much for you and you find yourself moaning about it all the time and feeling like its asking to much of you then you are in the wrong job and you need to think of changes you could be making.

Dedication is the key to any job. Sadly in this day and age there seems to be a lot more "that's not my job therefore I'm not doing it" or trying to shift things onto other people instead if actually doing the job you signed up for.

[blue bear]

Over the years and three children we have come across the odd cant be bothered teacher but the vast majority have been hugely dedicated putting in more than expected effort. My children have been very lucky to have experienced such caring and motivated teachers.
Yes most people now wades end up working extra for nothing, but is it right? We seem to be heading back to the industrial age where the bosses were gods and you did as they said or took a hike, people were over worked and unappreciated.

[Becci26]

I haven't read all this post but wanted to say...

My best friend is a year leader in a local middle school, not only does she work full time at school but regularly brings work home with her and works until the small hours, her weekends are often taken up with work and yes they get 13weeks off but she always has work to do during this time.

Teachers are not appreciated enough IMO

[CLL]

I am going to stick my neck on the line and say YES I will be teaching my children! As their mother it is my job. I know that most of what my children know is because of me and the things that we do as a family. As a parent who has fought tooth and nail for her child when it comes to her education I can honestly say I am fed up of teachers lazy, I don't care attitude. Teachers who have the attitude of she is where she is academically and according to my chart, I have no concerns therefore I don't need to encourage her to achieve anymore. Never mind the fact she's bored out her skull and taking a huge confidence drop. I know not everyone will have the same opinion but I do have to then question why so many people become teachers if they have such an issue with whats expected of them? At my daughters school there are at least 4 adults to every classroom. I remember the days when there was just one and I do understand what is being said with regards to teachers having their holidays unpaid but then technically they do get them paid as there salary is pro rata so they still have money coming in. If its so bad why don't they get a summer job stacking shelves in tescos or something like lots of other people have to? They do know all this before they sign up for the job. I just get so fed up with teachers moaning constantly about their job. I fully appreciate that its extremely hard work and demanding but if your not cut out for it then move onto something else.


Maybe you should consider sending your children to a different school if you are so unhappy with the education they are receiving. My son is 4 years old. I am a teacher and an early years professional, I have taught my son a vast amount over the last 4 years and even though he is the youngest in the year he is at the top academically. That being said I have a great deal of respect for his teacher, she works incredibly hard and has taught him things that I have not. If you genuinely believe you can do better you can apply to your LEA to home school your children.

[merry]

[QUOTE=Nicola Carlyle;1233494]As a childminder who has to comply with the EYFS I know exactly how much work goes into the job of being a teacher in the early years stages. QUOTE]

As a childminder complying with EYFS you know how much a childminder needs to do to comply with the requirements. My dd is a reception class teacher and what she has to do goes far beyond what we do, it is in no way the same! Unless you do (or have done in the recent past) a job yourself then you really have no idea exactly what's involved. There are, and always will be, 'skivers' in all kinds of jobs, I know a few childminders who would fit that description very well, doesn't mean I assume the entire profession is like that! I think it's a shame we can't support each other more instead of being so critical.

:)

[Nicola Carlyle]

This is debate in question. It wouldn't let me copy and paste so took a photo instead.

[Maza]

Nicola, have you thought about 'why' there might be four adults in a class? There certainly would not be four teachers to a class. The other adults would be to support individual children who might not have been in a mainstream school back in the days when there was only one teacher per class.

It does sound like you are very unhappy with the teachers at your child's school and the debate today only increases your fury. I was a teacher for thirteen years before I had my daughter and the workload made a lot of my friends and family really change their attitudes towards teachers. I wouldn't dream of only working 35 hours a week and it wouldn't be possible anyway! I think you need to meet some nicer, more dedicated teachers than the ones you have met already. x

[shortstuff]

I have to say the school my DS goes to are great, his class teacher will be going in to school throughout this break as the laptop she uses for her work doesn't connect to the school system properly so anything she does at home gets lost.

Also within his class there are four adults. One teacher, one full time teaching assistant and two student teachers.

I have a friend who went through all of the qualifications and all she needed to do to become a teacher and after the first year she quit as the work was too much. So i have seen it from her side. I don't think they are justified in asking for more money as they were told the money and job requirements before accepting the post, but they should also be appreciated for the very hard work they do.

I have to say i'm against people from any job/ profession going on strike. They took the job as stated at interview. If there are changes to the job that they don't like then either fight the changes by using their feet or just accept them as many of us have had to over the years.

Personally i think that striking doesn't help anyone and it paints people in a very bad light as they are only thinking of themselves and not the others involved, in this case the children who will lose out. In the case of the firefighters years ago it was the soldiers who had to fill their shoes.

My view might be very controversial but there it is.

I agree that some teachers are unappreciated and under valued, most are not in my experience, but don't make the children suffer by striking.

[Nicola Carlyle]

There are undoubtedly some fantastic teachers at my daughters school and I take my hat off to each and every one of them, however I feel they are the minority. They do go above and beyond for the children but they are just out shadowed by the ones who are just plane lazy or cant be bothered and the very absent head teacher.

From my point of view I find most things very unpersonalised like school reports. The only personal thing about it is my daughters name at the top of the sheet. The rest is all statistics and numbers on grids. Not anywhere in her report does it tell me anything specifically about her as a person. I know this is the way that its done now but I just don't agree. Parents evenings are no longer informative. Instead teachers sit and wait for us the parents to ask questions instead of them telling us all the fantastic things our children have been doing. I do understand that there are many adults to a classroom these days for many different reasons but that alone I think is a completely different debate.

Whilst we have had our issues with my daughters current school we have her on a waiting list for another. Im not happy to send her to just any school. Like all parents we have our reasons for choosing the schools that we have. It's not as easy as just pulling them out as you then end up with school patrol officers at your door. I can't home school. Not because I don't want to but because it stops me earning any money and we are not that well off where I don't need to work. I went to uni to become a primary teacher approx 10 years ago and instead dropped out to follow a different career whilst I had the once in a life time opportunity.

I have quite often thought about going back into teaching and i'll be honest - you couldn't pay me enough for the work load involved but then I have done my research and know that I wouldn't be happy with certain aspects so have chosen childminding as my career instead.

It's interesting to see everyone's opinions. It's good to hear how everyone thinks. I guess no one ever fully understands each others job or what it may entail however I know from own perspective that I would never choose a career without thinking it through thoroughly and researching all the ins and out that I could.

[SammyL]

Ok so on my fb newsfeed "This morning" are running a debate about the title. My response was this but just wondered what you all thought.

As a childminder who has to comply with the EYFS I know exactly how much work goes into the job of being a teacher in the early years stages. I have 14 children to plan for on a daily/weekly basis (aged from birth to 11years - NOT all the same age and similar stage to a standard classroom) and I do it by myself. I work a 60 hour week starting at 7am and closing my door to my last children at 7pm and I don't get paid anywhere near what a teacher does. I also don't have tea breaks or lunch breaks factored into my day where I am away from the children in my care. 12 hours a day in constant contact with children. Heck I even eat my lunch at the same table they do and have some wonderful conversations with them. Yes the paperwork is terribly time consuming and it does carry over to my evenings and weekends but I had thought of all the implications this would have before I signed up for the job. I think for anyone looking to be a teacher who starts work at 8.45am and finish at 3.30pm is SERIOUSLY deluded and I would question their mental state and ask why they want to be teachers in the first place. How do they expect to get their paperwork etc done in those times when from 9am-3pm is spent actually with the children? PART of their job is hands on teaching but do they honestly think that's it? I mean who do they think actually does the rest of the work? I don't think its unreasonable for a teacher to be in school from 7/7.30am and still be there at 5/5.30pm. I think they all need better training and support and all teachers should have training on time management in order to learn and understand how to manage their day along with all the paperwork involved. I also disagree with the holiday. Yes you have teacher training days which do actually include training but the other holidays you do have (all 10/12 weeks of them) are just that! It is no ones fault but your own if you choose to spend them thinking about school, planning, paperwork etc. You need to learn to switch off and if you can't then you are in the wrong job! Just because the job isn't a bunch of roses like you imagined it would be doesn't give you the right to complain about it because you misunderstood what the job entailed. Get yourself another job doing something you have researched properly. All that said I do think that being a teacher these days is extremely hard work and very demanding. It's very challenging and not everyone is cut out for it. But if I know this and I'm NOT a teacher, how come you teachers don't?

This is definitely the minority! I know lots of teachers, 1 being my Mum. Is in work regularly from 6.30am until 7pm. She carries work in her car, has an are in her home. Goes in on weekends & during holidays.

She goes on trips with the children for days/weeks at time.

She spends her breaks & dinners doing other duties. Teachers don't have it as easy as you think...not the ones who care anyway!!

She is a brilliant teacher & always takes on training & puts all her effort into what she does.

Teachers who want a 35hr week don't deserve to be one

[Maza]

Nicola, I can totally see why you are frustrated. Those types of reports are very annoying and can be a bit of a 'cop out' in my opinion. Have you written to the Headteacher about them? Like childminders, they do need to be getting feedback from the parents and acting upon this feedback where possible. I would also mention that you are not satisfied with Parents Evening. When your school is due an Ofsted inspection they (Ofsted) send out feedback forms too. Is there any way you could become a school govenor? x

[Nicola Carlyle]

Well there's the irony Maza. I WAS a school governor and while I had a huge issue with a lot if things concerning my daughter and class placement I kept the two seperate. That was until they brought a policy up that had very strong opinions on both as a parent and governor and was quite clearly told by another governor that I had to shut up or get out! I got out as have three people before me and 5 people after me. All this over the course of 2 years. Pretty shocking really. Most of the governors never questioned anything and would quite often sit and nod their head in agreement but have different opinions outside the meetings. When ofsted come out to the school governors are selected before hand to speak to inspectors and everything is very cliquey. I have filled out many a feedback firm for parents evening, ofsted etc all of which falls in deaf ears.

When parents visit the school before enrolling their children everything is very much sugar costed and its all smiles etc but after the first year most parents have issues. After the next year a few have left (new faces appear) then after the next year more leave. Issues are still there and the head teacher thinks its all because of everyone's home life because its bit down to his school !!!!!

All my issues aside there are a lot of outstanding teachers out there but there are a lot who aren't and don't deserve the title. They have a job to do like everyone else. Surely if they are not happy with their working life then they need to be looking at other options not having the children suffer. That's just my opinion.

[The Juggler]

Well there's the irony Maza. I WAS a school governor and while I had a huge issue with a lot if things concerning my daughter and class placement I kept the two seperate. That was until they brought a policy up that had very strong opinions on both as a parent and governor and was quite clearly told by another governor that I had to shut up or get out! I got out as have three people before me and 5 people after me. All this over the course of 2 years. Pretty shocking really. Most of the governors never questioned anything and would quite often sit and nod their head in agreement but have different opinions outside the meetings. When ofsted come out to the school governors are selected before hand to speak to inspectors and everything is very cliquey. I have filled out many a feedback firm for parents evening, ofsted etc all of which falls in deaf ears.

When parents visit the school before enrolling their children everything is very much sugar costed and its all smiles etc but after the first year most parents have issues. After the next year a few have left (new faces appear) then after the next year more leave. Issues are still there and the head teacher thinks its all because of everyone's home life because its bit down to his school !!!!!





All my issues aside there are a lot of outstanding teachers out there but there are a lot who aren't and don't deserve the title. They have a job to do like everyone else. Surely if they are not happy with their working life then they need to be looking at other options not having the children suffer. That's just my opinion.

then I would make an official complaint to the school and follow up with ofsted if they take no notice.