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charlottenash
25-03-2013, 02:23 PM
My 4yo son has grown up around books, we read everyday and he loves them to bits.

So I can't understand why twice in the last week I've had a call from his nursery to say he's ripped up books, today he has ripped up a large special book which costs £20.

The first time I punished him with removing his tv time and he wasn't allowed to take books from school for a week (we're still in this part).

So when I pick him up today how can I punish him to stop him doing it again? It's all good and well me making him pay it out of his money jar, which I intend to do but that's not going to teach him not to do it.

Taking away treats doesn't seem to have worked, and he really doesn't behave in this way at home. I've always wondered when I'd get a naughty time with him because he hasn't had one yet.

Let me know of any advice please! Before 3.30pm would be preferable ;)

VeggieSausage
25-03-2013, 02:35 PM
Ask the nursery to keep them out of his reach or be closely supervised when looking at them for now. I would explain to them that this does not happen at home and ask them if there is a trigger they can identify.....reiterate with him again how we must look after books etc....

charlottenash
25-03-2013, 02:37 PM
It's hard for them to keep them out of reach as they are available for them at all times during free play. I wish they would have kept the large ones that they all read together out of the way though! They're so expensive it seems odd they would keep them where any child can destroy them.

The trigger thing might be a good idea, because I am baffled.

Thank you x

rosebud
25-03-2013, 02:42 PM
Did you ask him last time why he did it?

I would stick with removing priviledges as a consequence, nothing too big, just enough so that he knows mummy is going to find out if he does something wrong at school and that he won't get away with it. Try to get him to think about how he would feel if another child did this to his favourite book and how "sad" the teacher must be feeling now.

clareelizabeth1
25-03-2013, 03:24 PM
No advice apart from find out the trigger and find out how the teacher is dealing with it when it happens. Hope you sort it out soon.

sarah707
25-03-2013, 06:07 PM
I don't advocate punishing a child at home when they have already been punished for something somewhere else...

It's a tricky one because we all parent differently but I would be focussing on why my child was ripping books at nursery - what is causing it?

I would suggest he needs support and encouragement to tease the reason out of him - not punishing which will lead to resentment and 'nobody loves me'.

Hugs to your little one xx

helena_j
25-03-2013, 06:13 PM
I agree what happens at nursery stays at nursery more importantly as you say it's out of character for him and if its only at nursery maybe there is something that is making him upset/cross/worried etc.
Also whether any other children are involved at those times have they seen him sit and so it or assumed it was him? Sounds awful but it would make me wonder etc maybe he was just unfortunate to be blamed but it wasn't him? Long shot but you never know. Of course if they saw him definitely do it then that's different and they need to be watching to see what's wrong. Hope all gets sorted.

angeldelight
25-03-2013, 06:49 PM
Moving your thread to the childminding area

Angel xx

angeldelight
25-03-2013, 06:53 PM
I would be asking to speak to nursery to find out what's happening

Has something triggered this ... Are there any other issues

Let us know how you get on

Angel xx

charlottenash
25-03-2013, 08:57 PM
He admitted it to me. I don't agree with the 'what happens at nursery stays at nursery' motto, because I'm a firm believer that how he behaves at nursery is a general reflection of their home life.

I feel at a young age he needs to know that it's wrong and for me to punish him.

Anyway, we had a chat in nursery and I explained how upset it made me and the teachers. He paid for the book and now we have removed his sticker album for 3 days. (He sits and fills in the stickers after nursery everyday).

Nursery said they were very shocked because it isn't in his usual nature and that they couldn't see a trigger. Keeping an eye on things.

I've asked him to try tomorrow to make everyone in nursery smile and he's happily accepted the challenge. Hope that's a focus for him.

Fingers crossed that's the end of it.

Helen79
25-03-2013, 09:10 PM
I agree to not punishing him again once he's at home. I wouldn't make him pay for them either. He's too young to learn by taking tv time off him hours after it happened, he won't connect the 2 things. Not being allowed to bring books home from nursery is a natural consequence of him ripping their books, but then that takes away the opportunity for you to look at nursery books together and teach him to look after them.

Is he definitely doing it deliberately. Those big books that they use for group story time are quite tricky to turn the pages and are easily ripped, maybe he ripped it by accident and the cost of the book has made the nursery over react. Nursery need to take some of the blame for that one for leaving expensive books where the children can get them.

tbh I think nursery are over reacting. Ripping 2 books in a week wouldn't be enough to phone parents about unless it's happening alongside other behaviour or if it's being done in obvious anger.
I'd try not to make a big deal out of it and avoid punishing him, it will only teach him that to get attention he needs to keep on ripping up books for nursery and mum to make a fuss about him.

If it carries on could nursery give him a special job and make him the 'book monitor', whose job it is to look after the books and make sure they're all tidy each day. He could get a sticker for helping to look after the books at the end of the day.

blue bear
25-03-2013, 09:14 PM
When in the day did he do it? What was happening around him? Has nursery not already said what lead upto it?
You said they were out for free play, was it during free play it happened?
A change in behaviour is always a concern, have the nursery not been shadowing him after the first incident, I would suggest he is was watched very closely, who he plays with the type of play etc to see if he needs more support.
If punishing him the first time hasn't worked its likely increased punishment won't solve the situation, nursery need to get to the bottom of it.

nipper
25-03-2013, 09:22 PM
Agree with everyone else about not continuing to punish him hours after the event. And as for making him pay for it, that's a bit extreme at the age of 4 years. By all means acknowledge the nursery staff reporting it to you and tell him there and then how sad it makes you feel, so they can see that you have addressed it and then leave it at that. It might be a phase he is going through, as you say he's had a really healthy relationship with books in the past, so it might end as soon as it begins. What about turning it on its head and take him on a special trip to the library at the weekend...now there's a challenge!

On another note, do any of the nursery staff actually find time to sit down with him maybe on his own and share a book with him? Might be worth asking this.

charlottenash
28-03-2013, 02:01 PM
Just seen all the responses.


I made him pay, because he earns his pocket money and has an awful lot of it! He's finished his 3 days of no stickers, and his book exclusion and it seems to have worked. No issues since and all is fine.

Won't be too keen to post issues here again, as everyone seems awfully judgemental! I just wanted a bit of help not comments such as 'why would you do that' and 'that's a bit extreme'.

Just a small bit of advice would suffice.

Thanks.

helena_j
28-03-2013, 02:24 PM
Glad it seems to have resolved and things are going well.

I think a lot of the time it's hard on forums as things sound harsher typed than for instance of we were all to sit around chatting and sharing ideas. For instance my comment you were not keen on my motto of 'what happens at nursery stays at nursery' at first I thought ok maybe my way of dealing with things may be I am wrong in my 'rules'. We all do the best by our little ones and its good to share and what works for one family may not for another, I am sure no one meant to cause upset.

Maza
28-03-2013, 03:40 PM
I'm sure no one meant to upset you honey.

First of all - when the staff say he has ripped a book, what exactly do they mean - tore it to pieces? Every page? A tiny corner? What was his mood like at the time and afterwards? Was he angry, remourseful? (sp?)

Could he be doing it for a reaction?

Why not have a session with him where you nicely go over the positive ways to treat/handle books? You could then give him some junk mail to tear up - maybe he is in a 'ripping up phase'. You could talk about things which are okay to be ripped up and things which are not.

I also think it is a bit extreme of nursery to call you. Did you have to pay for both books? Were they damaged beyond repair because now that you have paid for them surely they belong to you. I would ask staff to do some observations on your child next time he is in the book corner. Let us know how you get on. Once again, sorry if any of us upset you.

charlottenash
28-03-2013, 05:39 PM
In my opinion the book was repairable. A bit of sticky tape and it would have gone back together. It was as if it was falling apart and he's handled it a bit strong and it's come to pieces. There a bit annoying because one day the keyworker is one teacher, and the next it's anther. This only happens in his group, the others have consistent keyworkers.

They're response to me asking what caused this, was that a 'certain child' (their words) that he is best friends with is very disruptive. I think they were hinting at me to convince my son not to play with him. I simply responses that I encourage him to play with everyone, and wee worked this week on making everyone smile, but I am not going to outwardly discouraging him from playing with specific children.

He's been fine after this incident, and said best friend hasn't been there since this incident, so maybe the teachers are right, but I can't suddenly tell him he shouldn't play with his best friend. We have had a chat and I've told him if anyone is being a bit silly, that he should go and play somewhere else until they are ready to play properly again.

Deep down I know that he knows right from wrong, but is just edging a learning curve trying to work out what's right when he sees others doing it. I've got a new mindee starting next week, so fingers crossed that will calm him down, he's met her lots and they play so gently together it's lovely to see.

Thanks again everyone. Hopefully 2 weeks rest might do us all some good!

charlottenash
28-03-2013, 05:41 PM
P.S no the first book he ripped when I was dropping him off, he thought I'd gone but I saw him, and let them deal with it. However I saw it was repairable and they sent it home for him to stick it back on. The second time they rang me which I was shocked at, I was actually upset when I went in because it ruined my whole day. It was the receptionist as well not even his keyworker who rang me.

Maza
28-03-2013, 06:44 PM
Imagine if we phoned parents at work each time one of our mindees broke a resource! They need to re-think how they deal with such situations.

Enjoy your break! x

starlight1
28-03-2013, 08:24 PM
When my son was in reception...His best friend was getting into a lot of trouble...I did worry about my son getting in trouble...

I had a chat about how he was a very good boy knew right from wrong , If someone did something that was going to get them into trouble if he copied he would get into trouble too.

I know he has since refused to do something other children have said telling them no I will get in trouble..

jackie 7
28-03-2013, 10:24 PM
Just read the bit his KEYWORKER changes. No no no. A keyeorker should not change unless they leave. This could be the main cause of his problems. A discussion with the head is needed. In the eyfs it is important and essential. Get your money back for the books. Should I chsrge for all my books damaged I think not.

charlottenash
29-03-2013, 09:04 AM
His keyworker is the same, I have to see her with at issues however she is not there everyday, so although his keyworker doesn't change in my opinion she does because I have to deal with someone different. I gather from what my son has told me his keyworker helps at the big school round the corner a few days a week.

I have raised the issue before now, my so me his keyworker before joining the nursery and then she wasn't there on his first day!! I explained he has separation issues (at the time not anymore) and that for me it wasn't good enough.

Anyway, my son hated preschool and he loves nursery I have to convince and force him to stay home if he's sick! I'm going to go with my instincts and in general my son loves it here and behaviour has been a one off issue. If behaviour pops up again, I will address the nurseries issues with them in more detail.

Rubybubbles
29-03-2013, 09:11 AM
I am shocked they charged at all!! Lets be honest i have lost loads of books over the years. My 3 rd old mindie picked out a book but held it just by one page as she took it out the book case, cue it ripping. General reminder about hOw we handle books but I wouldn't dream of asking parents to pay!

I often loose books to them turning board books back on themselves it happens!! Even the careful turn of a paper back can cause a rip!!

Big hugs to you x

charlottenash
29-03-2013, 09:49 PM
Thank you Ruby.

blue bear
30-03-2013, 08:35 AM
Sounds to me like the issue is the nursery set up and staff changing not your son, no wonder the 'certain child' plays up if the key worker keeps changing. I too thought he had ripped it to shreds, no way would I ring up parents over a rippled book.
Your poor little boy all this fuss over a four year old ripping a book that could easily have been Repaired and the nursery dealt with it by talking about things that make us happy or sad, no wonder you are upset.
I'd be having a word with the manager about all the changes and the over the top reaction, think the staff could benefit from some training.