need advise regarding new ratios.

[lindyjeho]

Hello everyone,

I am a new childminder. After being registered for nearly 2 years finally this year I got 3 children all of whom come on part time. One over 5 and the other mindee comes from 6 pm till 10 pm twice a week.I have a child whose parents work on shifts. He comes only once a week and parents inform me 5 days before. He is about 11 months old. I am allowed to have only 1 child under 5 as i have two daughter who are 3 and 1 1/2 years old.
He is my first mindee.
Now I had to turn down two parents who wanted full time because I have already taken the first mindee of mine on board.But I am very frustrated that I had to loose full time requests. I am losing an opportunity to make more money.
I am working towards my level 3 qualification. Therefore I need 2 under 5s to carry on with my diploma. I thought of an option to let my first mindee off the list but I am feeling bad as he was my first mindee and do not want to do that to him.
I thought of an option of employing as assistant but I will have to pay her a salary with the little bit I am earning. Is it a good idea to find someone who can work only on call when I need them once a week or should I apply for variation from Ofsted?Is that possible?
I have a parent who wants me for full time and she is keen for me to look after her child who is starting school in September and she is 4 years old.The under 5 will be with me only until September.
What are my options here?
Please do help me and give me some advise as I am very confused. I am tired of reading posts after posts and would love someone to help me with their advise.
I am being honest, I do not want to let the 4 year old and 11 month old.
Thanks in advance for all your time and advise.

[Simona]

I am going to try to help but would suggest you look at the EYFS 2012 page 21 and see if you can work out your numbers

There is no need to apply for a variation...it does not exist anymore
Have you received your new Ofsted certificate? Until you do you need to keep to the numbers on your present certificate...I believe that still applies but you could ring your LA for help or the network co-ordinator if you have one?

Do you not have another cm you can work this out with as it is difficult without seeing the names of the children in a 'grid' ...if you know what I mean..who comes on what day and which hours?
The 4 year old from Sept...will the child be in school...full/part time?

Sorry I have bombarded you with questions...hope i have not confused you...come back if you need to

[blue bear]

You have an over five and another child who does evenings.
You also have a three year old who does one day a week in the day time but the days vary.
Am I right so far?

You have an enquiry for a full time child In The days but the one day a week child is blocking the space.

As it stands you cannot take on the full timer as you would be over your numbers on the days your one day a week comes.

Could your new enquiry start part time and share the space with the one day a week and then if in the future mum needs to increase to full time you can do a risk assessment to increase numbers under consistency of care.

[FussyElmo]

You have 2 children of your own under 5 so you can only have 1 more in this age group.

If you give your 1 day a week mindee notice you will only be able to take on 1 more child.

[lindyjeho]

I am going to try to help but would suggest you look at the EYFS 2012 page 21 and see if you can work out your numbers

There is no need to apply for a variation...it does not exist anymore
Have you received your new Ofsted certificate? Until you do you need to keep to the numbers on your present certificate...I believe that still applies but you could ring your LA for help or the network co-ordinator if you have one?

Do you not have another cm you can work this out with as it is difficult without seeing the names of the children in a 'grid' ...if you know what I mean..who comes on what day and which hours?
The 4 year old from Sept...will the child be in school...full/part time?

Sorry I have bombarded you with questions...hope i have not confused you...come back if you need to

Thank you Simona for your response.I have got my new Ofsted certificate. I spoke to my LA today and she said that I can have my part time mindee with the full time one as long as I get a letter from both the parents that they have no objection. Besides that I have to demonstrate to Ofsted that I am able to provide a quality care to all the children without disrupting their routine! The 4 year old starts school in September full time. But from next month she wants me full time until she starts going to school in September. Then she needs me for school wrap around care.Sorry I did not explain that correctly.
When i spoke to Ofsted about a month ago the gentleman on the other side said the same thing what my LA said. But some say it isn't the case and I got all confused.
I guess I have to take a chance here. I am due any time for an inspection and I hope I am not getting myself into any unnecessary drama;) Thanks for you time once again

[lindyjeho]

You have an over five and another child who does evenings.
You also have a three year old who does one day a week in the day time but the days vary.
Am I right so far?

You have an enquiry for a full time child In The days but the one day a week child is blocking the space.

As it stands you cannot take on the full timer as you would be over your numbers on the days your one day a week comes.

Could your new enquiry start part time and share the space with the one day a week and then if in the future mum needs to increase to full time you can do a risk assessment to increase numbers under consistency of care.

Oh Thank you for that brilliant idea. May be I can speak to the parent and work that out!
:thumbsup:

[lindyjeho]

You have 2 children of your own under 5 so you can only have 1 more in this age group.

If you give your 1 day a week mindee notice you will only be able to take on 1 more child.

Thats right! But I am lucky in a way that I have a 2 year old coming twice a week from 6 pm till 10 pm! I rather have the full timer atleast for a term than having a child comes who comes once a week or sometimes after 10 days! He is my first mindee. And that is what is stopping me of getting rid of him! Ahh that sounds harsh:panic:

[Simona]

I am happy you have resolved the matter...well done
Sorry I was not really great help!

[lindyjeho]

Thanks Simona. You were very supportive!

[jackie 7]

I thought we couldn't have a variation got new buisness?

[FussyElmo]

Thank you Simona for your response.I have got my new Ofsted certificate. I spoke to my LA today and she said that I can have my part time mindee with the full time one as long as I get a letter from both the parents that they have no objection. Besides that I have to demonstrate to Ofsted that I am able to provide a quality care to all the children without disrupting their routine! The 4 year old starts school in September full time. But from next month she wants me full time until she starts going to school in September. Then she needs me for school wrap around care.Sorry I did not explain that correctly.
When i spoke to Ofsted about a month ago the gentleman on the other side said the same thing what my LA said. But some say it isn't the case and I got all confused.
I guess I have to take a chance here. I am due any time for an inspection and I hope I am not getting myself into any unnecessary drama;) Thanks for you time once again

This contradicts everything on variations at the minute they must only be granted if there are special circumstances ie continuity of care.

Check out this document in the free resources it does explain it.

Variations2012 (http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/freeresources/Free%20downloads/variations2012.html)

[Simona]

We do not have variations anymore...not in EYFS 12 and no one grants them
We decide in 'exceptional cinrcumstances when we increase the number of chldren in our care as long as the total under 8 does not exceed 6 children and we have carried out the anecessary ssessments and agreed it with parents

If my interpretation is wrong then I need to go back to square one?

[LauraS]

This contradicts everything on variations at the minute they must only be granted if there are special circumstances ie continuity of care.

Check out this document in the free resources it does explain it.

Variations2012 (http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/freeresources/Free%20downloads/variations2012.html)

I agree, to grant yourself an exception to.your ratios in these circumstances for new business would seem ti be against the rules, and I have seen a couple of ofsted reports where cms who have done this have been found inadequate on inspection for over-minding - on one report the inspector acknowledged that the cm had adequately risk assessed and the actual care was fine and the period of.time of the increase was short, but the cm was still downgraded. I wouldn't risk it, nor would I take the lado's word for it - some lados are better than others and ultimately the responsibility and the consequences are ours.

[lindyjeho]

Thanks for that info. If this has happened before and the CMs who did these were found inadequate its not worth going down that Road.

[bunyip]

I agree, to grant yourself an exception to.your ratios in these circumstances for new business would seem ti be against the rules, and I have seen a couple of ofsted reports where cms who have done this have been found inadequate on inspection for over-minding - on one report the inspector acknowledged that the cm had adequately risk assessed and the actual care was fine and the period of.time of the increase was short, but the cm was still downgraded. I wouldn't risk it, nor would I take the lado's word for it - some lados are better than others and ultimately the responsibility and the consequences are ours.

I was wondering how long it would be before we started to see this sort of thing. Ofsted's "clarifications" have been no less vague than the 2012 EYFS regulations, not to mention some gung-ho DOs out there telling CMs to 'go for it'. I've long suspected that CMs had 2 choices: either play it safe or stick your neck out and wait to see if an inspector chops it off. Well, now we know. :p

[The Juggler]

We do not have variations anymore...not in EYFS 12 and no one grants them
We decide in 'exceptional cinrcumstances when we increase the number of chldren in our care as long as the total under 8 does not exceed 6 children and we have carried out the anecessary ssessments and agreed it with parents

If my interpretation is wrong then I need to go back to square one?

Simona we do still have variations. It's just you don't apply for them you can 'self-vary' but the conditions are exactly the same as before - in exceptional circumstances only.

In this case the OP could start a new starter on hours that will NOT put her over her numbers for a few weeks, then increase to the hours /days and that way it becomes a variation for continuity of care.

[Velleity]

I am granting myself a variation to go over my numbers for a short period of time and will have to risk Ofsted making me inadequate. I have:

Full-Time (Term-Time only) mindee 2.
My Own Daughter 3 (Starts Reception F/T September)
Part-Time (2 Mornings a week Mindee) Comes from 7.30am until 12.00pm Tuesday and Wednesday.

I've now had an enquiry for a Full-Time place for a fifteen month old. 7.45am until 6.15pm each day.

I am going to take him on for the following reasons:

Parents are happy.
Business is not sustainable with only one f/t and one tiny p/t.
I have a triple buggy and other equipment needed.
I'll be back within my numbers come September when daughter starts Reception.
I'll be back within my numbers during school holidays.

My only other alternative is to cancel the contract of the two mornings a week who signed up a couple of weeks ago (they are due to start in May), in favour of the full-time child as, like I said, my business is not sustainable on this p/t child and I can't wait around for months trying to find another p/t child to fit around.

I'll be one child over for 5 hours, twice a week for about eight weeks. It really doesn't seem terrible to me.

[bunyip]

The debate as to whether or not we still have variations is really just a matter of terminology. The word "variation" still gets used, even though it is not to be found anywhere in the EYFS Statutory Framework. Nor, for that matter, are the terms "rising five", "new business" or "continuity of care". :rolleyes:

[Simona]

I am quite clear on how to care for more than 3 children in 'exceptional circumstances'...I just do not feel it is worth using the word variation because it does not apply anymore and is causing confusion and, as stated by bunyip, not even mentioned in the EYFS

What matters is that we are allowed 6 children under 5 in total and, again as bunyip says, neither continutiy of care or new business is mentioned

The EYFS 12 was/is nothing else but a preparation/test for the increase in ratios now being proposed...I will bet you anything it will be reformed by Sept 2013 that is why is in a downloadable format only...they will whisk it away, make the changes to our numbers and off we go in Sept reprinting the affected pages, page 21 in particular

[The Juggler]

I am quite clear on how to care for more than 3 children in 'exceptional circumstances'...I just do not feel it is worth using the word variation because it does not apply anymore and is causing confusion and, as stated by bunyip, not even mentioned in the EYFS

What matters is that we are allowed 6 children under 5 in total and, again as bunyip says, neither continutiy of care or new business is mentioned

The EYFS 12 was/is nothing else but a preparation/test for the increase in ratios now being proposed...I will bet you anything it will be reformed by Sept 2013 that is why is in a downloadable format only...they will whisk it away, make the changes to our numbers and off we go in Sept reprinting the affected pages, page 21 in particular

yes but the exceptional circumstances are unchanged (until Ms Truss has her way anyhow). Its still a variation if we are varying our numbers from the norm. We are allowed 6 under 8 - that would only change to 6 under 5 within those exceptional circumstances guidelines - it's not what our normal practice should be - however, yes it can be done and in reality its probably only a taster of things to come :panic:

The rules of 'exceptional circumstance' are in the Ofsted Variation Guidance Document (and many of Sarah's additional documents and posts which have been posted on here in the last 6 months) though I'm sure it will change again.

[Simona]

There is 'no norm' anymore...is what you can allow yourself according to your needs and judgement..
The EYFS does not state anymore we can only have 3 under 5s but leaves it to us to judge, assess, discuss and invariably disagree...crickey!!! can they not make things simple instead of manupulating their need to impose higher ratios via the back door?

I can see we don't agree and having read the documents by Ofsted I remain of the same opinion....soon to change in September I suppose?
Other countries, we so much love to copy or Truss does, must be having a good laugh at our expense...we are arguing about something we are prepared to sign a petition against?

In all this we have forgotten that by increasing our under 5s we also may need to get rid on those children in full time education who we may have cared for since babies...sorry ...no is my answer to that!!

[bunyip]

The current regulations are very badly-drafted (deliberately so, I wonder?) in many areas, and probably no more so than in the area of ratios. If anyone in Whitehall wants to tell me the regs are well-written, they first need to explain why Ofsted had to actually redefine the word "prescribed" since Dept of Ed's use of the word made no factual medical sense.

Ofsted's guidance documents are usually pretty good, to be fair. But the one on 'numbers and ages of children' clarifies nothing. It simply re-states the vague EYFS regs in the manner of a British tourist making himself understood to a foreign waiter by SHOUTING A LITTLE LOUDER, and offers some specific examples. That's fine if your situation is an exact fit to any of the examples, and useless if it doesn't. In fact, it introduces further complications. The guidance document (and examples) implies that "exceptional circumstances" are only for very limited (but still undefined) periods of time, such as a parent temporarily increasing her working hours - something which was never mentioned in EYFS. :huh:

The result is that we're all left groping in the dark. The more optimistic CMs are giving themselves the 'variation/exception' whilst seeking a favourable interpretation of EYFS. The less optimistic are playing it safe and maybe missing out. Because EYFS is unclear, it amounts to a guessing game of: will I be randomly matched with an inspector whose interpretation fits mine?

Some people think the glass is half-full, others think the glass is half-empty. Truth is, under Truss the glass will soon be shattered, and we'll be left picking up the shards. :(

[Bananabrain]

Childminders 'groping in the dark' No change there then.

Perhaps, just perhaps the powers that be will oneday put the lights on. Then I won't have to grope anymore:D