Independent Childminders Social Enterprise

[justgoodfriends]

Independent Childminders Social Enterprise CIC | Just another WordPress siteIndependent Childminders Social Enterprise CIC (http://www.****************/)

Not quite sure what they are/will be offering. It's set up by an ex-NCMA guy.

[SammySplodger]

Interesting - wonder how much it will cost and if it will be worth it...

[FussyElmo]

Is that not an agency but saying childminders will be independent?

Or am I just cynical :)

[Kiddleywinks]

Think it's an agency type set up for parents, but a trade association type set up for childminders....

I'm in two minds at the moment.
The government I feel are going to go down the agency route, regardless of any protests, because it saves them money - cutting LA funding.
Getting the kind of LA support that we currently access, training etc, IS going to be difficult as a result, so how are any of us going to be able to access the support we need to maintain our registered status at a reasonable cost without some kind of 'group' support to share the costs?

To remain independent to me means running my business myself, how I see fit, and to be graded on my own merits.
However, if the government target parents to only choose 'agency' minders then we are going to need some form of independent 'agency' for parents to go to. (Lord it all sounds very confusing putting it down in a written word lol) The traditional way of getting mindees may not be an option in 2 years time

We don't have childminder specific trade association anymore (NCMA are now PACEY and are including other care workers)
UKCMA? Well, still waiting for that one despite the hype almost a year ago
PLA, again, aren't CM specific

We're working blind at the moment and I'm hating the fact that one way or another we're going to be pushed into doing some kind of agency type association :panic:

[Mouse]

Is that not an agency but saying childminders will be independent?

Or am I just cynical :)

That was my thought. I read it and thought "isn't this an agency?"

I'll wait to hear more, but to be honest I didn't really understand what it was :blush:

[SammySplodger]

I didn't see it as an agency. Have signed up for more info, keeping an open mind and trying to stay positive. The website is a bit rubbish, not enough info. It all depends on how much money to join and what you will get for it.

I'm hoping it might be a 'replacement' for the NCMA/PACEY - more specific to Independent CMs. But if it's significantly more than the NCMA I will be put off joining.

But it might be very useful to have a national organisation advertising a(nother) database of Independent CMs to (confused?) Parents.

Like I said... keeping an open mind...

[wellybelly]

Think it's an agency type set up for parents, but a trade association type set up for childminders....

I'm in two minds at the moment.
The government I feel are going to go down the agency route, regardless of any protests, because it saves them money - cutting LA funding.
Getting the kind of LA support that we currently access, training etc, IS going to be difficult as a result, so how are any of us going to be able to access the support we need to maintain our registered status at a reasonable cost without some kind of 'group' support to share the costs?

To remain independent to me means running my business myself, how I see fit, and to be graded on my own merits.
However, if the government target parents to only choose 'agency' minders then we are going to need some form of independent 'agency' for parents to go to. (Lord it all sounds very confusing putting it down in a written word lol) The traditional way of getting mindees may not be an option in 2 years time

We don't have childminder specific trade association anymore (NCMA are now PACEY and are including other care workers)
UKCMA? Well, still waiting for that one despite the hype almost a year ago
PLA, again, aren't CM specific

We're working blind at the moment and I'm hating the fact that one way or another we're going to be pushed into doing some kind of agency type association :panic:

Kiddlywinks, you've really opened my eyes to the agency thing. I think your absolutely right, we need to be ready for change and be able to adapt. At the minute I have families who have been with me for a few years but kids do grow up! My LA has cut valuable resources for childminders already and we really do feel like we're on our own. Im trying to keep an open mind about things.

[Mouse]

I didn't see it as an agency. Have signed up for more info, keeping an open mind and trying to stay positive. The website is a bit rubbish, not enough info. It all depends on how much money to join and what you will get for it.

I'm hoping it might be a 'replacement' for the NCMA/PACEY - more specific to Independent CMs. But if it's significantly more than the NCMA I will be put off joining.

But it might be very useful to have a national organisation advertising a(nother) database of Independent CMs to (confused?) Parents.

Like I said... keeping an open mind...


I see it maybe not as an agency as the government plans, but a business set up to reap the financial benefits of an agency without the responsibility of being accountable for results.

An agency under government plans will register new childminders, put parents in touch with childminders, arrange training, help with paperwork, arrange insurance, offer support etc. This new company seems to be offering the same. The big difference is a childminding agency will be inspected, whereas with this company you will remain self employed, so freeing themselves of that burden. With both there will be a cost to childminders and parents.

Maybe it's a good thing. Maybe we'll be able to access all the "benefits" of an agency without actually having to be part of an official one.

But I will try to keep an open mind and see where it all leads :thumbsup:

[SammySplodger]

Exactly Mouse!

I have always suspected there will be bigger 'benefits' for parents finding CMs via agencies, which we won't be able to access. We can't just assume that future Parents will come to us like they have in the past.

The result being that CMs will be gradually whittled away. Some might (reluctantly) join Agencies because it's the only way they can sustain their businesses and some will just give up and pack it in... :-(

Maybe this is a way round it?

[Memina]

If this is the case then maybe networks of childminders can get together and set up an agency?

Everyone then gets the support but could remain se?

Oooo I feel a potential business opportunity coming on!!!!! Lol

[MessybutHappy]

It says it's set up by childminders...so who are you? I find it odd that there are no names...very much the corporate body. Also, I'm not convinced by the website, it's badly written something which really bugs me!
So, will be watching and waiting!

[FussyElmo]

Our members will be able to be matched to parents in two significant ways with the local childminder in future.
•ICM-SE community playgroup formed by our members
•Website matching service for all TBA

Parents looking for a childminder will be invited along to ‘meet the childminder’ sessions of our community playgroups to see local childminders at work.


Cant wait to see how they manage this - our early years team cannot please all the settings across our local authority :rolleyes:


And the most important question agency or no agency how much do they want and easy will it be to start an agency up of childminders once they have cms and parents paying to use the system - still in a very cynical mood and refusing to be open minded on this miserable saturday with its rain, 2 hours of dancing and 2 hours of a childrens birthday party. Roll on the rugby COME ON ENGLAND :laughing:

[Mouse]

It says it's set up by childminders...so who are you? I find it odd that there are no names...very much the corporate body. Also, I'm not convinced by the website, it's badly written something which really bugs me!
So, will be watching and waiting!

The names are under the 'contact' me section.

I thought I'd read on there who they were (as in what they did before) but I can't find it now. Perhaps that was on the NurseryWorld article about it. He used to work for NCMA and I have seen her name pop up along my travels around the Internet. I think she is, or was, a childminder.

[jo.jo76]

It says it's set up by childminders...so who are you? I find it odd that there are no names...very much the corporate body. Also, I'm not convinced by the website, it's badly written something which really bugs me!
So, will be watching and waiting!

The nursery world magazine article names them, can't link as on my phone but it was a childminder and an ex ncma guy

[MessybutHappy]

Ah, thank you...I couldn't see anything last night, I'll have another look later!

[Kiddleywinks]

New childminding trade association set up | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/rss/1174845/New-childminding-trade-association-offers-new-choice-childminders/)

Stuart Turner - previously a director of professional standards for the NCMA
Bea Heath - a childminder

[Mouse]

I knew I recognised her name, she set up one of the FB groups. She was rather condescending when I posted on there, so that put me off her straight away :blush::laughing:

[dette]

well...i just thought i would start the sign up process to see if i could find out more info .i tried to submit and it says i'm already a registered user !!!! the only thing i can think of is that its the same lot who do ******************.i'm sure ive not signed up for anything else ....weird ..and confusing

[caz3007]

The names are under the 'contact' me section.

I thought I'd read on there who they were (as in what they did before) but I can't find it now. Perhaps that was on the NurseryWorld article about it. He used to work for NCMA and I have seen her name pop up along my travels around the Internet. I think she is, or was, a childminder.

I have also seen Bea's name pop up on FB, I am sure I joined a group back when all this reared its ugly head a year or so ago and she was admin on said group. I cant find it in my groups now, so must have deleted myself

[bunyip]

Is that not an agency but saying childminders will be independent?

Or am I just cynical :)

You know, one day they're going to catch up with you for this sort of thoughtcrime Fussy.

Repeat after me "War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength".

Doubleplusgood - that's more like it. :cool:

[MessybutHappy]

New childminding trade association set up | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/rss/1174845/New-childminding-trade-association-offers-new-choice-childminders/)

Stuart Turner - previously a director of professional standards for the NCMA
Bea Heath - a childminder

Thank you! I'll have a look later!

[rickysmiths]

Bea Heath has written this for Richmond Childminding Association

no to deregulation (http://www.richmondca.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106:no-to-deregulation&catid=41:news&Itemid=67)

Having read this website I wonder who they are going to get to set up these childminding groups and where? I personally don't think it is right to let random parents wander in and out of a Childminding Group and if you are working how can you properly talk to a prospective parent?

We have 'Meet the Childminder' evenings at our local Children's Centre which work very well.

[loocyloo]

there are 2 childminders in my town, 3 in one town 7 miles away, and another couple in a town 7 miles in the opposite direction, plus odd random childminders scattered aroudn the countryside ... we can't even co-ordinate ourselves to all be in the same place at the same time, so it would never work for parents to come & see all of us at once!

[SammySplodger]

ICM have clarified their aims & objective on their FAQ page - worth a read.
http://www.****************/faq/
Makes me feel a bit better.

[Simona]

It has done nothing of the sort to me and is causing many cms to doubt their original stance : to remain indpendent and have no one in the middle to pay for what we get for FREE now... the freedom to run our business

It is too early to decide, in my view, a few clarifications won't change my mind or that of amny against any middleman, but pressure has resulted in more clarifications from them...keep it up!! and keep debating!

[SammySplodger]

I do not doubt my original stance at all.
I think they might actually be able to HELP me to remain Independent.
I am currently an NCMA member and this new organisation might be a better option (as they are turning into PACEY and diluting).
I have signed up for information and I am keeping an open mind at this stage.
If the membership fee is too high, benefits insufficient or if I don't like them for some other reason, then I won't join.
But at the end of the day, I will make my own choice.

[FussyElmo]

I dont like the fact they are part of the government's agency group - why if they dont want to be an agency or if they want us to remain independent.

Why do we need a trade union? Im self emplyed who are they going to represent me against myself?

Mmm methinks something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

[hectors house]

I would like to think that this company is promising to do what the NCMA should have been doing to support childminders if the NCMA (PACEY) hadn't gone off on a tangent - this is why I am no longer a member of the NCMA and maybe why Stuart Turner (ex director of professional standards for NCMA has jumped ship too.

I haven't signed up yet - I am waiting to find out what their costs are - don't know why they can't be upfront and advertise it now!

[Mouse]

I haven't signed up yet - I am waiting to find out what their costs are - don't know why they can't be upfront and advertise it now!

It's like everything else at the moment. We're given drips of information with none of the facts we actually want! I notice they say they won't take a percentage of our earnings. Well, anything they take will be a percentage of some sort, even if it's a one off fee! I guess they mean they won't take a set, regular percentage.

I'll wait & see where it goes before deciding one way or another. I don't think I'd join up to anything yet anyway. I'll wait & see where government proposals lead before deciding if I need an alternative like this :thumbsup:

[Simona]

As from this week we will have a choice of who to belong to or not!

Those wishing to remain individually 'independent' can do so as staed by Truss and we will have to hold her accountable to that promise
The new association will represent 'independent' cms who will be dependant on the services provided by them and for them...so we will have a 2 tier of independence!

I agree it is worth waiting and reading ALL the information and implications of joining anything...I don't meam skim read but really read every single line

The main issue remains that if cms decide not to join they have guarantees that no obstacles or unfair competition stand in our way and we can continue to access the support and training of our LAs...free or otherwise as I am sure this will come at a cost as it will be for those who join anything

[SammySplodger]

Fussy Elmo: I think they are part of the Gov group, so they can access whatever 'benefits' / carrots on sticks Truss will offer to Parents who use Agencies.

It is very much a Plan B option for me:
If Agencies come in, my local are will probably be dominated by the 'black and yellow winged stingy insect' Agency. Parents might be offered a financial benefit which I can't give to them. What if this becomes a major issue for my sustainability? This could be a way round it, without actually having to join a (profit-making) Agency.

That is why I am interested in what they have to offer and why I am choosing to keep an open mind.

NB: If you sign up for info you aren't actually Joining them. Nobody can join yet anyway.

[SammySplodger]

'local are' = 'local area'

[FussyElmo]

I would like to think that this company is promising to do what the NCMA should have been doing to support childminders if the NCMA (PACEY) hadn't gone off on a tangent - this is why I am no longer a member of the NCMA and maybe why Stuart Turner (ex director of professional standards for NCMA has jumped ship too.

I haven't signed up yet - I am waiting to find out what their costs are - don't know why they can't be upfront and advertise it now!

However credit where credit NCMA did fight our corner against the government and ofsted I cant remember which thread will go and find it.

Found the thread

http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/campaigns-petitions/115718-today-parliament.html

[FussyElmo]

We are the only national body representing childminders best interests on that group.

Does anyone know if the NCMA were invited? Why did they refuse if invited? Why invite a group to represent us who has of yet have no members who exactly are they representing?

[bunyip]

We are the only national body representing childminders best interests on that group.

Does anyone know if the NCMA were invited? Why did they refuse if invited? Why invite a group to represent us who has of yet have no members who exactly are they representing?

NCMA's issued a statement about this. They were invited to be on the panel, but refused cos they do not wish to support the agency model in any way.

How can an organisation oppose something then sit on a board that is setting it up?

The way I see it, it's like a bunch of turkeys sitting on the panel that organises a traditional Xmas dinner. :p

[Simona]

Just to clarify that ******* is a trade association not a 'trade union' as it clearly says on the FAQs

it is a social enterprise therefore a business, they will need to make money to pay wages, training, raise funds as stated, run website etc
Any profits left can be reinvested or donated to a charity which is their option...
They say they have quietly consulted with many cms, EYPs, network cms for the last year??

I have spoken to many cms and others and all seem confused whether this association is an agency...many of the things they will do are similar to agencies: administer Free entitlement and c/vs, match parents, provide holiday cover, monitor and investigate cms, provide training and help with business matter....so I am not clear either

These w links explain what a Social Enterprise is

https://www.gov.uk/set-up-a-social-enterprise (this is a gov.uk link formerly DfE)

What is social enterprise? – Social Enterprise Mark (http://www.socialenterprisemark.org.uk/the-mark/what-is-social-enterprise/)

[FussyElmo]

Just to clarify that ******* is a trade association not a 'trade union' as it clearly says on the FAQs

it is a social enterprise therefore a business, they will need to make money to pay wages, training, raise funds as stated, run website etc
Any profits left can be reinvested or donated to a charity which is their option...
They say they have quietly consulted with many cms, EYPs, network cms for the last year??

I have spoken to many cms and others and all seem confused whether this association is an agency...many of the things they will do are similar to agencies: administer Free entitlement and c/vs, match parents, provide holiday cover, monitor and investigate cms, provide training and help with business matter....so I am not clear either

These w links explain what a Social Enterprise is

https://www.gov.uk/set-up-a-social-enterprise (this is a gov.uk link formerly DfE)

What is social enterprise? – Social Enterprise Mark (http://www.socialenterprisemark.org.uk/the-mark/what-is-social-enterprise/)

Sorry Simona it was me who called it a union. Brain refusing to work and on my phone :rolleyes:

I always wonder why groups say they have consulted with cms like Ms Truss says but then noone ever seems to have been consulted - told you still cynical :D

[Simona]

No need to apologise...I am in a spin with all these new things too!

NCMA refused to be part of the 'task and finish' group because they did not want to help develop agencies...which is understandable..however they left an empty seat. ******* are there representing independent cms, not sure why because many would not agree with some of their proposals

Wonder who these vocal and pro-active cms are that have formed this group?

As said and repeated a thousand times we need to have guarantee they won't stand in our way and ...lets say..we can coexist??

Strangely that many cms left when NCMA widened the m'ship and rebranded ...******* is now a cms association but thinking of widening the m'ship in future...so back to square one???

[FussyElmo]

No need to apologise...I am in a spin with all these new things too!

NCMA refused to be part of the 'task and finish' group because they did not want to help develop agencies...which is understandable..however they left an empty seat. ******* are there representing independent cms, not sure why because many would not agree with some of their proposalsWonder who these vocal and pro-active cms are that have formed this group?

As said and repeated a thousand times we need to have guarantee they won't stand in our way and ...lets say..we can coexist??

Strangely that many cms left when NCMA widened the m'ship and rebranded ...******* is now a cms association but thinking of widening the m'ship in future...so back to square one???

Good for the NCMA if you disagree about something then stand by it.

The question is how and why have the ******* taken this seat when they are not actually representing anyone yet. Also how did the government know to ask them?

[jo.jo76]

What is the difference between this company and an agency? The only thing I can see is that they will charge a fee, where as the agency will take a percentage of takings or employ childminders.

[Simona]

Good question!!
All will be revealed on Thursday when cms can start registering with them and they will disclose the rules for payment
They are not even saying what their marketing strategy to parents is (FAQs) or the cost to cms
They will charge a m'ship fee and for insurance like NCMA

[SammySplodger]

Can I please back-peddle slightly?!

My previous posts on this thread are ONLY based on the information presented by *******. On the SURFACE it looks positive, but that opinion is based on just the (limited) info that has been released so far. It could still turn out to be a 'pig in a dress', if you catch my drift.

I have not decided either way yet and I might still remain Independent in the truest sense, IF I can sustain my business locally. My current Mindees are quite young and (all being well) should be with me for at least a couple of years. It's what happens when they go off to Nursery or School that bothers me.

Watching with interest and trepidation....

[FussyElmo]

Can I please back-peddle slightly?!

My previous posts on this thread are ONLY based on the information presented by *******. On the SURFACE it looks positive, but that opinion is based on just the (limited) info that has been released so far. It could still turn out to be a 'pig in a dress', if you catch my drift.

I have not decided either way yet and I might still remain Independent in the truest sense, IF I can sustain my business locally. My current Mindees are quite young and (all being well) should be with me for at least a couple of years. It's what happens when they go off to Nursery or School that bothers me.

Watching with interest and trepidation....

Totally agree Sammy :thumbsup:

In a years time I expect to be in exactly the same position as I am now - however as current mindees get older and move on that is the worrying time :thumbsup:

[Simona]

I contacted both my LA and Childminding association today...both admit they are aware of events
LA are confused but agree that as long as we indpendent cms have no barriers and can access their support and training all is well and good?

I too worry about the future, in my area most cms have vacancies and ******* say they will :
'help support govt to achieve its policy objectives' (agencies? higher ratios?)

'seek to address the needs of govt to increase availability of childcare...facilitate parents and their relatives back into the labour market as new cms' (we have enough cms anymore and our business will die)

'deliver good quality affordable childcare'
'promote investment in childcare not focus on cost' (this contradicts the above?)

'deliver childcare to satisfy parents and overcome their fear of deregulation' (so they are an agency and we are being deregulated meaning they will be inspected instead of us?)

'rather than deregulation we would rather call it ''Effective regulation'' (confused here!!)

So many questions!! Will they have all the answers by Thursday if cms start filling in application forms?

[loocyloo]

Good question!!
All will be revealed on Thursday when cms can start registering with them and they will disclose the rules for payment
They are not even saying what their marketing strategy to parents is (FAQs) or the cost to cms
They will charge a m'ship fee and for insurance like NCMA

i found their membership page ... annual membership to include insurance £84.00

annual membership NOT including insurance £60.00

but these are for EXSISTING registered childminders ... nothing about new childminders, or those just registering who wish to be independant.

Membership Page | Independent Childminders Social Enterprise CICIndependent Childminders Social Enterprise CIC (http://www.****************/membership-page/)

[SammySplodger]

I'm not taking anything at face value, there are still too many unanswered questions (see Simona's post below).

Just wish it was easier to get information and straight answers. :-(

[Mouse]

i found their membership page ... annual membership to include insurance £84.00

annual membership NOT including insurance £60.00

but these are for EXSISTING registered childminders ... nothing about new childminders, or those just registering who wish to be independant.

Membership Page | Independent Childminders Social Enterprise CICIndependent Childminders Social Enterprise CIC (http://www.****************/membership-page/)

Well, that confuses me even more now!

Does this bit mean the enterprise is open to others, not just childminders?

Stakeholder FULL Trade Association membership

This is the annual ******* membership fee, for other stakeholder in the industry that may wish to benefit from our lobbying of Government, childminding support services and business development programs, by belonging to the ******* trade association. This membership fee does not include insurance and may include among others Local Authorities, local childminder groups, Childminding Charities, other trade, membership or professional associations and suppliers to the sector.

[PixiePetal]

Just read through the whole of this thread and my brain is fried :(

I have 2 mindees going to school in September and therefore leaving. I have their younger siblings too and not sure yet of their plans but logistically it might not work for them to stay either so I could be out of mindees after the summer and no idea what will happen :panic:

Gonna switch off for the rest of the afternoon as I feel a migraine coming on :(

[SammySplodger]

PixiePetal - me too - have given myself a huge headache. Not good. Desperate for some good news and transparency, but just seem to keep unearthing confusion and duplicity :-(

[phoenix2010]

have read their entire website and I have to say i must be really thick because I still havnt managed to work out exactly what I might be getting for my membership fee should I decide they are offering me something I need

perhaps im missing the point , can anyone enlighten me ? pretty please :D

[SammySplodger]

Phoenix you are not alone! I have read it several times and I thought I understood it, but now I don't any more! I am going round and round in circles!

On the other hand, I also saw the new PACEY website today... which is quite refreshing (bearing in mind I'm not best pleased about the diversification)...

My NCMA / PACEY membership & insurance don't run out until next January. So I've got quite a long time to sit on the fence and watch how things develop / deteriorate during that time.

[phoenix2010]

Ive never joined NCMA / Pacey in 6 years , never felt they offered anything I needed

as long as i can access first aid and safeguarding courses Im not sure I need anything else

if they are going to help me find business then thats great but I cant see any agency , sorry trade association doing a better job that childcare.co.uk does

I wish i knew what the heck is going on :blush:

[SammySplodger]

Courses are a major part of the issue, it's not clear at the moment HOW we will access those courses in the future. I'm not just assuming that the LA will still provide them. My LA are being very cagey at the moment and I'm deeply concerned about their future.

I've recently done most of my courses and have various others booked between now and May. That should cover me for my grading inspection in June/July (if I get one: not assuming that either!) and keep me going for 3 years.

But I am (still) very worried about the future and starting to question if I have made a huge mistake re-registering. :-(

[Simona]

Come on girls...do you remember when the EYFS12 came out??? we were all intepreting and giving our opinion because it was not clear and it got all muddled?? some s are still confused to this day!

This is the same...we have the info and slowly slowly we will get what we want as SammySplodger said no one has to rush and register
Many of us will have existing m'ship we may want to use up to the end date or just insurance from MM and surviving on that...so no headaches or panic
At least we are informed and sharing it as much as we can here and on the agencies Focus Group

Remember this is a business and they say:
'we will undertake the following revenue generating activities:provide playgroups, provide training and CPD for our members, provide business support and advisory services to our members, administer the free place and c/vouchers for our members, removing LAs stranglehold on access to funding to 2,3 and 4 year olds' all this will have to be at a cost?
Some cms will be happy to get all this others will want to know exactly what the costs are and I wonder what the LAs will do?

One thing worries me when they say they do not believe in shouting about 'deregulation' and they are concerned some are using the word to run their own agenda??? do you remember the e-petition against deregulation last year?
To me the agenda is fairly clear: individual cms independence or independence under a trade association...both carry a cost but at laest we can make an educated choice...not yet though, we still have a little time!

Just refresh your memory on what the govt wants:

What are childminder agencies? An introduction - Popular questions (http://www.education.gov.uk/popularquestions/a00221420/intro-child-agency-england)

[SammySplodger]

I think it might be a good idea to book on whatever training your LA is (still) offering while you can.

And, if I hadn't got insurance sorted out already, I'd be doing it with MM or NCMA/PACEY for the next year, until the dust settles.

I cannot make any major decisions until I can see clearly what we are dealing with, who is behind it, what they are getting out of it, how it functions in practice etc. Hopefully this and other fora will 'ferret out' the answers over the forthcoming weeks and months.

Now that I have had a bit more time to re-read various websites and consider, I am now suspecting ******* could possibly just be a more palatable version of an agency and (somewhere along the line) Truss is behind it. A way of making the Independent CMs more 'compliant' perhaps?

Or is that an outrageous suggestion?!
I could be very wrong here... but nothing surprises me at the moment. If I have learned one thing since last September it is this:
You cannot take anything at face value.

What I'd really like to know is;
what date Ofsted will 'bring down the axe' on inspections. Is that clear yet? Is it September? I'm due June/July. Does anyone know this yet?

[Bicky]

Well I will admit to being totally confused about which way to turn. We aren't even registered yet so really don't know which hurdles we still have to jump over. Are the Government behind any of this?
They have a habit of muddying the waters so no one knows whats going on and then getting their own way while Jo public are spinning round in circles.

[SammySplodger]

I have just 'turned over' to Facebook to see an update the the UKCMA are launching membership on 25 March! Just to confuse matters even further! Aaaaaarrrggghh!
:-)

[justgoodfriends]

The PLA must be close to launching their childminder membership package too?!

[FussyElmo]

I have 13 days to decide about my ncma membership and its not easy knowing which way to go. Do i stick with ncma or try an untested group mmmm

[bunyip]

I am the only one who finds it disturbing that "we" are being "represented" in high-level Dept for Education discussions on the future of our industry (or "profession" if you prefer) by an organisation (*******) that currently has a membership of zero; that no-one is at all clear about what they stand for; and that none of us had even heard of this time last week?

Do they realise they are offering the Tory regime the perfect opportunity to do precisely what it wants? If ******* agree with Truss, she can gleefully announce that a trade association for childcarers backs the plans. If they disagree with her, she'll simply write them off as unrepresentative (and let's face it, they ain't representing anyone but themselves right now.)

At this stage, they can either be a nodding donkey or a lame duck - no more, no less. :(

[mum26]

I just wish we could be given clear facts in reasonably simple language so that there are no misunderstandings and we all know what is on offer. That just seems to hard for this Government though!

[bunyip]

I just wish we could be given clear facts in reasonably simple language so that there are no misunderstandings and we all know what is on offer. That just seems to hard for this Government though!

:ROFL1: The only time governments are straight with you is when they're shooting at you.

[phoenix2010]

I have 13 days to decide about my ncma membership and its not easy knowing which way to go. Do i stick with ncma or try an untested group mmmm

Do you have to join any group ? Im not with NCMA or anyone else and as far as im aware its not compulsory

I just have my insurance with MM and thats it

[SammySplodger]

Bicky -

My advice for a new (unregistered) CM would be to get registered asap, do all the training you can via your LA and sort out insurance with one of the ESTABLISHED organisations: Morton Michel or NCMA / PACEY (the new website & name change have now happened) and then watch this (and other) fora for further developments.

Do not rush into making any major decisions re: Agencies / organisations which appear to be 'palatable' Agencies. Let the dust settle and see how the land lies. I think we are in for a bumpy ride between now and 2014. But 'the truth will out'...

Personally I will stay (properly) Independent for as long as I can. But may be forced to Plan B (see other postings in this thread) if my business becomes unsustainable.

I'm sure others can offer advice or correct me if this is bad advice.... :-)

And yes, of course it's the Governments fault. Wish they would just leave us all alone!

[SammySplodger]

bunyip -

I think you are spot on there...
I have had 12 hours to mull this one over, do some further research and have U-Turned!!!

I am definitely now 'sitting on the sidelines' watching and seeing how ******* pans out. I am in no rush to actually join, but will read updates about them with interest.

[SammySplodger]

FussyElmo - You don't have to join any - it's just the insurance issue. Better the devil you know though ;-) I'd stick with either MM or PACEY.

[FussyElmo]

I am the only one who finds it disturbing that "we" are being "represented" in high-level Dept for Education discussions on the future of our industry (or "profession" if you prefer) by an organisation (*******) that currently has a membership of zero; that no-one is at all clear about what they stand for; and that none of us had even heard of this time last week?

Do they realise they are offering the Tory regime the perfect opportunity to do precisely what it wants? If ******* agree with Truss, she can gleefully announce that a trade association for childcarers backs the plans. If they disagree with her, she'll simply write them off as unrepresentative (and let's face it, they ain't representing anyone but themselves right now.)

At this stage, they can either be a nodding donkey or a lame duck - no more, no less. :(

No I totally agree with you - read previous posts. A group who has no members is representing us well I guess if they take it to a vote it will be easy to count

[SammySplodger]

Re: Bunyip's point:

Should this be fed through to those MPs who support us? Bit concerned at how this might look in Parliament... Surely they have to have a significant membership in order to claim they actually represent CMs? Hmmmm

[bunyip]

After all this time I've finally worked out the difference between a trade union and a trade association.

A trade union is an organisation which receives universal criticism for employing a block vote which reflects the size of its membership.

Whereas a trade association is an organisation which receives acceptance at the highest level of government for agreeing with a minister when it has no membership whatsoever.

(How could I never have understood before? :doh:)

[Mouse]

I have just 'turned over' to Facebook to see an update the the UKCMA are launching membership on 25 March! Just to confuse matters even further! Aaaaaarrrggghh!
:-)

Very coincidental timing :rolleyes:

Of course if all these new groups keep appearing it could be very good for childminders. Are they all going to be fighting for our custom? :thumbsup:

[FussyElmo]

Very coincidental timing :rolleyes:

Of course if all these new groups keep appearing it could be very good for childminders. Are they all going to be fighting for our custom? :thumbsup:

Oooh the little bit of me who gets excited about sale signs is whispering price war, price war, price war

[Mouse]

Oooh the little bit of me who gets excited about sale signs is whispering price war, price war, price war

I'm thinking free gifts to entice us in :clapping:

[SammySplodger]

The only gift I want from them is some honesty and transparency :-/

[SammySplodger]

The only gift I want from them is some honesty and transparency :-/

But a Truss doll and a set of pins might do :-)

[MessybutHappy]

Um, is this an open forum? And if so, can "they" be asked to respond to this thread? (She says hesitantly ' cos she's not sure she should be asking, but has wanted to for ages!!!)

[sarah707]

Um, is this an open forum? And if so, can "they" be asked to respond to this thread? (She says hesitantly ' cos she's not sure she should be asking, but has wanted to for ages!!!)

I am not sure what you are asking Messy...

Anyone can come on here and reply to threads as long as they mean the forum no harm.

If a company wants to advertise on here then there are rules - there always have been - but Richard will be able to deal with all that if they approach him first.

If you don't want to ask something on open forum you can always send me a pm and I will be honest in my reply and check if I am not sure about something :D

[SammySplodger]

'They' are already looking at social media and various fora... If you read the opening comments on the FAQs. :-)

[SammySplodger]

'They' are already looking at social media and various fora... If you read the opening comments on the FAQs. :-)

Here is the link again:
http://www.****************/faq/
But I have just noticed they have changed the text at the top. Previous text showed they were aware they were being hotly debated. Wonder why they edited it out?!

[MessybutHappy]

Hi sarah, I only meant "open" as in, anyone who's a searching the forum even not logged in, can read the posts, and so perhaps the founders of the association could post here in response to the queries made?

PS thank you, I know you'd help out, you already have, often!

[Simona]

Well we knew that we would eventually have 3 'representing' associations
In addition there is a new one emerging we are all unsure of the agenda...(3 days and all will be revealed)

All competing for our custom, 56,000 sitting targets precisely!
I wonder what would happen if all cms gave up their membership and get a straight insurance from somewhere else...since none of them are really saying very much and letting this agecy thing slip in
What gets me the most is that, as NCMA has not felt like helping to develop the agencies, we are being represented by an association with not one single member!
Am I the only one feeling insulted and getting rather cross?
I would bet all LAs and cminding associations know something (mine do)...PLA and NCMA know of ******* and keeping quiet...something tells me they don't deserve our custom if at this time of need they fail us...sorry had to get that off my chest!

[SammySplodger]

I think I am going to have to start taking screen shots, as that FAQ text does not seem to be the same as it was the last time I read it.

It is almost as though it has been changed to reflect some of the voices on this forum and others I have read ;-)

[SammySplodger]

Simona -

I am feeling the same. Very disappointed and disillusioned.

The fence is definitely the most comfortable place to be at the moment. I don't feel that any others deserve my custom. I am letting my NCMA membership run its course.

And I am certainly not going to behave like a sheep....

[loocyloo]

I think I am going to have to start taking screen shots, as that FAQ text does not seem to be the same as it was the last time I read it.

It is almost as though it has been changed to reflect some of the voices on this forum and others I have read ;-)

i thought it was just me and that i couldn't remember what i had read where!

[Mouse]

I think I am going to have to start taking screen shots, as that FAQ text does not seem to be the same as it was the last time I read it.

It is almost as though it has been changed to reflect some of the voices on this forum and others I have read ;-)

I'm glad you said that - I thought I must have been imagining things! I was sure I'd read one thing, then gone back & looked again only to find it said something different!

It's seems a strange thing to do.

[Simona]

******* have responded to the amounts of questions on social media...do not be surprised if they are in each forum reading and taking note ...the best way really to connsult with us because, although they say they have consulted thousands of cms over the last year...put your hand up if you were???

Well I feel more cross that disappointed and rather than sit uncorfortably on the fence I shall stretch on my luxury sofa and think of my kind of independence!!

[SammySplodger]

Woooooo Hoooooo! *******
CoooooEeeeeee!
Sorry - not convinced yet
;-)

Yes I know it's childish, but could not resist

[MessybutHappy]

Woooooo Hoooooo! *******
CoooooEeeeeee!
Sorry - not convinced yet
;-)

Yes I know it's childish, but could not resist

Made me giggle! Dh not impressed, apparently it's a serious bit in what ever rubbish he's watching!!!

[Mouse]

******* have responded to the amounts of questions on social media...do not be surprised if they are in each forum reading and taking note ...the best way really to connsult with us because, although they say they have consulted thousands of cms over the last year...put your hand up if you were???

Well I feel more cross that disappointed and rather than sit uncorfortably on the fence I shall stretch on my luxury sofa and think of my kind of independence!!

I've no doubt they're reading everything on here! I think I have seen one cm on FB saying they'd known about this for sometime. So, that's one person they've consulted with!

[manjay]

Wow you're a cynical lot:p

[SammySplodger]

Wow you're a cynical lot:p

It pays to be cynical :-)

[Mouse]

Wow you're a cynical lot:p

I think we've been made cynical by the lack of information we have. Maybe if we had a few more facts we would be a bit more optimistic :D

[Simona]

I think we are good at finding info..that doesn't bother me as much as being totally unrepresented...all our money given to those who cannot rally for us!

[bunyip]

To summarize, here are your choices for representation:-

NCMA/PACEY: currently staring so deep into the navel of their own re-branding exercise that they can't manage to run a functioning website, switchboard, dispatch department or p155-up in a brewery.

UKCMA: whose specialities include hiding in coreners, sulking, and popping up occasionally to shout, "we're better than you are cos you smell - ner, ner, ni-ner, ner."

PLA: nice but dim. Best not go there.

ISE: we represent all our CMs' interests (even though we don't have any members) but that's OK cos we consulted so widely that no-one has ever heard of us.

Plus any number of insurance companies: whose sole responsibility is to their shareholders and profit&loss account, so why on Earth would they wish to oppose agencies?

Truss must be loving this. She can divide and rule with hardly any effort made on her part at all. :(

[MessybutHappy]

Feeling positive today Bunyip?!!!!

Sadly, as usual, you've hit the nail on the head!

[bunyip]

Feeling positive today Bunyip?!!!!

Sadly, as usual, you've hit the nail on the head!

Well, I'm nice to the children. :D

If only I'd had that Truss woman from an early age...................:rolleyes:

[phoenix2010]

Well I choose none at the moment

and if they are reading the forum and changing text , while they are at it they might want to sort out their appalling spelling and grammar , the whole website is littered with mistakes and it doesn't exactly instill confidence

[Bananabrain]

Bunyip, you crack me up.
You are sooo right about the NCMA website. If they can't get the basics right...........................?
Ms Truss was just on BBC news talking about childcare vouchers. She was decidedly ruffled!

[Simona]

After todays announcement by Truss that the help for childcare costs will kick in 2015 I think we need to realise there is a need to move on
We are not being listened to so we need some action, I truly believe Truss thinks we are dim and by doing nothing she will win

We've had our moan and a little cynicism......what next? off to write again to NCMA and more
Back later

[Kiddleywinks]

So I'm the only one so far that took a minute to wonder what a 'pee one five five up' was then :laughing:

(It's been a long day already - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it :D)

[SammySplodger]

Oooo but doesn't the UKCMA new website have the loveliest shade of olive green? I might join just for that... soothing greeneyness.... Mmmm

No - as stated before - I will join the first one to offer a free gift of Truss doll with 20% extra pins.

[Kiddleywinks]

After todays announcement by Truss that the help for childcare costs will kick in 2015 I think we need to realise there is a need to move on
We are not being listened to so we need some action, I truly believe Truss thinks we are dim and by doing nothing she will win


Absolutely agree with you there, and Bunyip's comment: She can divide and rule with hardly any effort made on her part at all

United we stand, divided we fall, and divided sadly is how things are feeling to me at the moment.
That's no great surprise I'm sure to many, with all the drip feeding and uncertainty around, we're all trying to 'save our businesses' in whatever way we can see future viablity, and this is where we're being/going to get divided.
I'm sure the majority of us feel that agencies are a fait accompli, and the uncertainty for getting work in the future is scaring the pants out of me!

There's a saying that has served me well in the past but that I am struggling with right now:
If in doubt, don't.

We need to stand together on remaining independent, but without a firm support network/association how on earth are we going to manage it?

Is ICSE the answer? I don't know.
Is it better than standing alone? I don't know that either.
Is my business going to still be here in 3 years time AND still be independent? Answers on a postcard please :(

[SammySplodger]

Simona

Yes - I like a bit of action!

I also wonder if we need to start sharing a clear guide to 'staying independent'. Many folks out there are (rightly) confused and could be forgiven for sheep-like behaviour.

I'm thinking a basic guide to how an Independent CM will operate once Truss gets her (evil) way:
So you want to stay Independent?
Under the (new) rules here is how,
Statement - ie: you don't need to rush to join orgs or decide (re: Agency / ICE-SE),
Training Sources,
Ofsted inspection (cost etc),
Setting up a local group of Indy CMs,
Marketing,
etc

I know that this info will probably appear on several fora over the coming months, but reading threads can be very time consuming.

Can provide links to other fora for people to read if they wish. But overall aim to de-mistify staying Independent once LAs have been completely vapourised.

Dare I say it: do we need (another) website?

[Simona]

We need to concentrate on remaining independent and getting clarification from the DfE on that and also contacting LAs to see what they think

When we know we can get on with no barriers or unfair competition we can let the associations fight for our custom...there is no pressure to join anyone right now...but there is pressure to act rather than just being cross

[Simona]

SammySplodger...tried to send you direct message but inbox is full

[SammySplodger]

I am offering to fund and set up a simple/basic website with Indy CM info on, provided I have help from various others (ie: you lot!) with the research / text.

My 'other job' is this: www ESCIS org uk
written as above to avoid the starry out thing

???????

Hand on heart, absolutely no 'business interests' here, other than keeping my Childminding business intact / sustainable. And outwitting Truss! :-)

[SammySplodger]

Simona - My email is on second page of my Twitter profile!

[Simona]

There is one already..just like you say no business inetrest just cms at its centre

[Simona]

Can't do sorry can you DM me please

[SYLVIA]

After todays announcement by Truss that the help for childcare costs will kick in 2015 I think we need to realise there is a need to move on
We are not being listened to so we need some action, I truly believe Truss thinks we are dim and by doing nothing she will win

We've had our moan and a little cynicism......what next? off to write again to NCMA and more
Back later

Of course she thinks we are dim that's why she thinks higher qualified staff are needed. Bet she couldn't do our jobs and please parents too

[justgoodfriends]

Oooo but doesn't the UKCMA new website have the loveliest shade of olive green? I might join just for that... soothing greeneyness.... Mmmm

No - as stated before - I will join the first one to offer a free gift of Truss doll with 20% extra pins.

Here's a voodoo doll picture I found online... remind you of anyone?! ;)

7064

[Simona]

Two things to ponder today
The tax free childcare announcement...does anyone think it has got to be linked to agencies 'administering' these c/vouchers online?
If the do what do they pass on to cms? do they they a cut? how much? and why should agencies do this when claiming c/vs is one of the simplest things? a bit of our independence taken away I feel?

One thing not mentioned by ******* is whether those cms who join will retain their 'individual inspection'?? or will ******* be registered with Ofsted?

[SammySplodger]

Two things to ponder today
The tax free childcare announcement...does anyone think it has got to be linked to agencies 'administering' these c/vouchers online?
If the do what do they pass on to cms? do they they a cut? how much? and why should agencies do this when claiming c/vs is one of the simplest things? a bit of our independence taken away I feel?

One thing not mentioned by ******* is whether those cms who join will retain their 'individual inspection'?? or will ******* be registered with Ofsted?

Yes - the first point I have long suspected / feared. This could be the crucial thing that makes Independence unsustainable (I hope I am wrong though).

Your second point I had not picked up on yet at all. Their website is changing so rapidly it's hard to keep track of the info. If you are reading this *******, please can you let us know in your next update? Thanks.

[justgoodfriends]

Two things to ponder today
The tax free childcare announcement...does anyone think it has got to be linked to agencies 'administering' these c/vouchers online?
If the do what do they pass on to cms? do they they a cut? how much? and why should agencies do this when claiming c/vs is one of the simplest things? a bit of our independence taken away I feel?

One thing not mentioned by ******* is whether those cms who join will retain their 'individual inspection'?? or will ******* be registered with Ofsted?

I noticed that too - it makes you wonder whether they know/think that remaining individually inspected is not going to be a viable option as they believe the government are planning to make it very difficult to remain independent. Their website certainly raises more questions than it answers and is 'jumping the gun' imo.

[SammySplodger]

I don't think it will be particularly easy to stay independent, but surely it won't be impossible either?!

I would much rather put in the effort to suss things out for myself first, before having to resort to 'joining up'.

I really don't like the sense of urgency that these organisations are currently creating :-/

What will happen if we don't join anything?
Why do they need to round us up?
Why am I feeling (even more) paranoid?

[Simona]

SammySplodger
At the moment there is no evidence at all it will be 'difficult' to remain indpendent so it is better not to speculate and frighten other cms unless you have seen evidence that it won't 'be particularly easy to stay so' as you state?...it is the DfE that needs to be fair now and engage with the cms who need clarification ?

The message of the Focus Group remains the same: seek clarification and make sure there are no barriers or unfair competition in our way
I can imagine the website is changing daily as they will be responding to questions put to them and that is fair otherwise people may join not fully aware...and no one has to 'resort' to joining up as you say..it is not compulsory or necessary right now??

Yes the say 'pre-register now to jump ahead of the queue'?...a bit confusing yes?
Whay happens if you don't join anything...nothing will happen until we get clarificationt...you are confusing every one and you say so yourself you are getting paranoid...please relax no one is rounding 'us up'

[bunyip]

SammySplodger
At the moment there is no evidence at all it will be 'difficult' to remain indpendent so it is better not to speculate and frighten other cms unless you have seen evidence that it won't 'be particularly easy to stay so' as you state?...it is the DfE that needs to be fair now and engage with the cms who need clarification ?
'

The reason why there is no evidence is only that there is so little critical detail published, leaked or even drip-fed about a policy whose effect on CMs will depend very much on the detail. This is, at the very least, cause for extreme suspicion. If the detail was good news, don't you think the regime would be shouting it from the hilltops? Or do you think they're so disorganised that they've not yet thought beyond the broad privnciples? The truth is that, as so often, the Devil will be in the detail, so the detail will only be made known when the implementaion of the proposals has become a fait accompli, and it's too late to change anything.

Do you really believe Truss was going to say, "here are my proposals and, by the way, here's a list of all th bits that are going to be unpopular - just so you've got some amunition to fire at me." ????? Get real. :p

[phoenix2010]

I dont see why it wont be easy or at least possible to stay independant

surely it wont take any more effort than we have been forced to make to adjust to all the changes they have thrown at us over the years

I wont be rushing to join anybody , Ive managed this long not to join anybody , not even the ncma , and yes I know that the support of the LAs is being taken away , in my case NCA Northampton , but apart from a little bit of support before my first inspection I dont even have much to do with them since my registration

As long as we can access safeguarding and First aid courses (which of course we can ) and as long as parents can use the financial benefits (vouchers, tax relief, childcare tax credit ) to use my services and OFSTED still inspects me as an individual then Im sure everything will be fine, am I being naive ? perhaps but Id rather be that way than panicking about what might happen and scaremongering others

Yes it may be tougher to convince parents to use me as an independent minder , as opposed to going through an agency which offers the moon on a stick to them , but Im sure that I am smart enough to find ways of attracting parents to my business

- the promise of lower ratios
- a unique selling point (havnt figured that out yet )
- the fact Im working with them and caring for their child because I chose to and not because an agency told me to
- flexible contracts to suit individual families circumstances

any barriers put in our way will cause uproar because we have specifically been promised that there will be none, yes I know the government often go back on their promises , but its a fight we can fight , providing we all stick together and dont all rush to sign up to the first website that promises to help us stay independent, when I think Im capable of doing that on my own

whats the rush ?

[Simona]

I agree with Phoenix2010...there is no rush
I am being very real and feel that we need to know what the terms are for us now not when it suits the DfE...it is just a matter of respect and curtesy then we know where we stand and get on avoiding all this stress
I need to plan now not later and wonder why we will be involved in discussions later...we need by then as all will be agreed

Any details should be officially announced by the DfE not as stated drip fed then we can have a meaningful engagement

[bunyip]

I think there is a whole host of reasons why independence is likely to become difficult - at the very least more costly than it is now. Even without the details of the Tory proposals, it hardly takes a quantum leap of logic to see a few things on the horizon.

Increased numbers and the removal of space requirements could well generate 'mega-nurseries' able to dominate local childcare markets.

Big nurseries and agencies will benefit from economies of scale to keep their running costs down, and be able to achieve market-saturation levels of advertising. OK, some parents will still look for quality and word-of-mouth recommendations. Many more will take the easy route to nurseries/agencies cos they're far easier to find. Many parents will see the benefit in an agency which can readily provide cover when an individual carer is sick or on holiday.

We already have a village school which refers all childcare enquiries to the combined nursery/after-school-club in the next town. It would rather deal with 1 big setting than several CMs. How much more will this be the case when they can deal with agencies instead of lots of independent CMs? (or even be running the agency themselves? or taking in 2yo's themsleves with the teaching places paid for by government?)

Government and national organisations would far rather deal with a few 100 agencies than tens of 1000s of independent CMs. We already know that Ofsted was never equipped or prepared to inspect and regulate the huge number of CMs. How soon before all the funding, schemes, tax credits, etc. are routed through agencies because it will be a hugely more efficient use of public money that administrating payments to 50,000+ individual CMs?

How long will cash-strapped LAs continue to offer free/cheap training when they are no longer required to? Whitehall appears to want to cut LAs out of the equation. Why on Earth would LAs choose to bear the expense when they no longer have to? Agencies will offer training to their own members, and may just let independent CMs access training - but on what terms? Preferential "mates rates" for members and high charges for independents, of course.

These are just a few. It won't take a genius to see other problems looming.

To say "why won't it still be easy to be independent?" is rather like jumping out of an aircraft with no parachute and, on the way down, saying, "well...so far, so good." :(

[Simona]

I totally see your points and have already asked them myself and a thousands more.
I will say it again that if we had clear indication of how to remain independent, what it entails then we would be able to make an educated choice
The last thing we want is cms joining associations they do not need to or leave the profession

Remaining independent carries a cost as it does joining an agency...up to us how we want to spend that money?

The DfE has clearly stated agencies are not being introduced to 'take business away from existing, successful cm' at least that is in the letter I received and seems exactly what Truss told me when I met her last August and discussed agencies with her as this idea was in her mind
we want that clear to all cms not just the few who are getting replies as we have no representing associations sitting at that table, listening and arguing for us
How many cms are writing letter after letter to all sorts of people to get answers?.....few I fear and discussions on social media is bound to fuel speculation further

[lizann]

Totally agree with Simona think we all need to take a deep breath calm down we need to stick togeather dicide togeather what we do, there is no rush to join anything at the moment

[SammySplodger]

I apologise if my post last night worried anyone, but I am just trying to be realistic. Bunyip has listed out some of the stuff that also crossed my mind that I didn't say....

Things are moving so fast, that I feel the need to start planning now for survival. For example, I am already putting money aside to pay for my next inspection.

It might seem like duplication to some, but I do feel the need for a 'step by step guide to staying Independent' to be published somewhere 'neutral' that I know and trust (like here, for example). But in a non-forum format, using the info the forum members have researched.

Various other membership organisations are going to provide this 'service', but we should be able to access that information easily without feeling compelled to 'join up'.

Many of my fellow local CMs do not use fora because they find it daunting, not necessarily because of other posters, but because of needing to wade through threads to get to the vital action points. So this suggestion has partly come from those who are NOT on here.

I would feel a lot happier and more 'in control' if we could start sharing 'the way forward' instead of all this drip-feed and speculation.

[phoenix2010]

I dont see how funding could be routed through agencies alone

and tax credits arent administered through childminders anyway , it goes to the parents as part of their tax credit claim

Im not going to assume that parents will choose super nurseries either , parents Ive spoken to are all appalled at the idea

Im not saying there wont be difficulties and I think that competition will increase , I also think there will be less childminders , put off by the changes , so maybe it will balance out

Im aware that there will be problems ahead but Im not going to make myself ill worrying about what may or may not happen , Ill deal with things as they happen as none of us have a crystal ball and we are all in the dark as each other

I have my eyes wide open , but Im not going to assume the absolute worst ...yet!

[Simona]

The only people who can give a step by step guide is the DfE...Ofsted need to release their new framework, we will be consulted on agencies soon so all we can do is debate in various forums and add to the list of what needs to be clarified...my list is endless
After the budget today LAs will have a more clear understanding of what they can offer

The only way forward is engagement with the DfE with all cms not just those interested in agencies
I have written to the DfE again today with clear questions...if i do not get them I will write again and again

[SammySplodger]

We all have different ways and stages of coping with this kind of stress and mine is something like this:

1) Freak out
2) Denial
3) Freak out again - but realise it doesn't get me anywhere
4) Start looking for escape routes
5) Realise that many escape routes are actually dead ends
6) Start researching escape routes properly instead of just running down them
7) Form a plan
8) Execute plan
9) Success!

I am at stage 6 I think, with the occasional lapse into stage 3 late at night.

:-)

[phoenix2010]

We all have different ways and stages of coping with this kind of stress and mine is something like this:

1) Freak out
2) Denial
3) Freak out again - but realise it doesn't get me anywhere
4) Start looking for escape routes
5) Realise that many escape routes are actually dead ends
6) Start researching escape routes properly instead of just running down them
7) Form a plan
8) Execute plan
9) Success!

I am at stage 6 I think, with the occasional lapse into stage 3 late at night.

:-)

I like this a lot and you are absolutely right

I am currently going through a calm phase , but a few weeks ago I was definitely panicking

and no doubt as more news feed out I will pass through panic again and many more stages

I totally respect every single persons way of dealing with this , their thoughts and opinions.

I just dont happen to agree with them all and vice versa and thats fine , the most important thing is that despite our different thoughts on what may or may not happen and our various ways of dealing with the changes we stick together and dont forget that we all want the same thing in the end , independence and the right to earn a living.

[SammySplodger]

... the most important thing is that despite our different thoughts on what may or may not happen and our various ways of dealing with the changes we stick together and dont forget that we all want the same thing in the end , independence and the right to earn a living.

Absolutely! Hear Hear! :-)

[SammySplodger]

OK so I'm trying to be positive... Let's talk it up instead of down:

I have two Mindees and things are going well, I have a good relationship with both sets of Parents. I was asked to look after their children instead of a Nursery because they know I only look after a maximum of 3 children in total. I usually just have 1 or 2 at a time. That and the home from home setting are their main concerns. For them it isn't about the money, it's about the confidence they have in my ability to look after their children properly.

I have no evidence to suspect that my business will suddenly start to 'implode' because of Truss and her plans. Parents are horrified about the what is going on and very supportive (I am keeping them up to date). They have no plans to change things for the foreseeable future.

I DO have evidence that there are other parents locally (potential customers) who agree with existing parents and want to give their children the best care possible. They are not stupid, they don't want to waste their hard earned cash on paying an agency to find a Childminder, who already advertises locally.

My enquiries so far have come from my own advertising, leaflets, childcare.co.uk, face to face meetings at toddler group and school or word of mouth.

I imagine some or all if the above also applies to many others.

So, my only real issues are on a practical / admin level (with Ofsted) and keeping up to date with training. Which, frankly (my LA isn't particularly proactive) is not much different to how things are now anyway.

I think I need to inset 'calm phase' into my list, like Phoenix! :-)

[loocyloo]

So, my only real issues are on a practical / admin level (with Ofsted) and keeping up to date with training. Which, frankly (my LA isn't particularly proactive) is not much different to how things are now anyway.

:-)

same here, although my LA is fantastic for childminders ... or at least, for those that are interested !!! those that don't want to do anything are not going to ever do any more than the bare minimum. although even those i have spoken to, don't want agencies and want to be left alone in their own worlds! some childminders seem to think that an agency run exactly the way our LA/FIS is run would be great ... i agree, but there are bound to be other forces at play, which make it unlikely to happen.

[justgoodfriends]

Putting aside that the govt could make it difficult to remain independent by all the reasons Bunyip and others have said... I can't help feeling that some parents, given the option, may feel that their child is better placed/safer in a an environment that is regularly monitored by an agency (rather than inspected every 3-4 years), especially if this is promoted heavily by the government as being 'in the child's best interests'.

[Simona]

But who are these qualified people in agencies that will monitor cms?
what if their experience, qualifications are lower than those they intend to monitor?
what kind of monitoring scheme will they have?
how often will they visit cms?
are the LAs stopping monitoring cms? we have had no news of this
The ******* will monitor and investigate cms? what does it mean?
Ofsted investigate us ..will they take that role on because they are inspected by Ofsted not the individual cms?
they will run online surveys for parents?
what will they ask parents?

Just a few more questions to add to the list...

[Simona]

Article in Children and Young People Now about Pacey and *******

Childminding sector split over national representation | Children & Young People Now (http://www.cypnow.co.uk/cyp/news/1076683/childminding-sector-split-national-representation?utm_content=&utm_campaign=200313_Daily&utm_source=Children%20%26%20Young%20People%20Now&utm_medium=adestra_email&utm_term=http://www.cypnow.co.uk/cyp/news/1076683/childminding-sector-split-national-representation)

[AgentTink]

In the comments section of the above article is another company Trio who have stated in their comments that they too are helping the DfE devise a agency model here are their comments

Trio Childcare Connections have been supporting Registered Childminders across England for over 16 years. We developed and managed for 6 years now, a bespoke Quality Improvement Network, designed in tiers to provide support at all stages of a childminding career with specialist opportunities for childminders to meet local priorities.
Trio are working with the Department for Education currently on developing a framework for childminder agencies, a new initiative the Government are hoping to launch next year, as this may be an attractive proposition and benefit some home-based childcarers.
Whilst we strive to retain local authority contracts so Registered Childminders have access to a breath of continuous professional development, we will also be launching later in the year, individual membership opportunities for childminders to attract our support wherever they are across England.
Trio want to ensure that all childminders still have the option of retaining their independence and have access to high quality support and training to offer the best service they can to children and their families, through a range of distance and e-learning opportunities with ourselves.
Trio recognise that some childminders may like the option of being part of an agency and not having to endure, what they perceive as an onerous Ofsted Inspection, whilst others should retain the right to welcome the opportunity of demonstrating to Ofsted, their quality childcare and early years provision.

[loocyloo]

:panic: ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :panic:

my brain can't take any more!

[Mouse]

:panic: ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :panic:

my brain can't take any more!

You really have to envy some of these childminders who are totally unaware of any of this, don't you?

I'm going for the head in the sand approach today...blissful for a while, but you wouldn't survive there for long :laughing:

[justgoodfriends]

In the comments section of the above article is another company Trio who have stated in their comments that they too are helping the DfE devise a agency model here are their comments

Trio Childcare Connections have been supporting Registered Childminders across England for over 16 years. We developed and managed for 6 years now, a bespoke Quality Improvement Network, designed in tiers to provide support at all stages of a childminding career with specialist opportunities for childminders to meet local priorities.
Trio are working with the Department for Education currently on developing a framework for childminder agencies, a new initiative the Government are hoping to launch next year, as this may be an attractive proposition and benefit some home-based childcarers.
Whilst we strive to retain local authority contracts so Registered Childminders have access to a breath of continuous professional development, we will also be launching later in the year, individual membership opportunities for childminders to attract our support wherever they are across England.
Trio want to ensure that all childminders still have the option of retaining their independence and have access to high quality support and training to offer the best service they can to children and their families, through a range of distance and e-learning opportunities with ourselves.
Trio recognise that some childminders may like the option of being part of an agency and not having to endure, what they perceive as an onerous Ofsted Inspection, whilst others should retain the right to welcome the opportunity of demonstrating to Ofsted, their quality childcare and early years provision.

They're hedging their bets aren't they lol! They seem to be saying they can support childminders as an agency and also to be independent?!

[SammySplodger]

I'm sure there will be plenty more organisations popping up over the coming weeks and months... I'm caring less and less about what they all have to say. They are watching our fora and social media and marketing accordingly.

Has anyone on Twitter noticed their followers increasing more than usual? Almost all of my new followers are existing 'childcare providers' (ie: not CMs) or 'education specialists' who strangely haven't tweeted yet...

I am viewing all of this rather differently now and have definitely turned a corner:

There is no need to panic

We don't need to sign up to ANYTHING yet

Once it becomes clear how we go about remaining independent, the information will be shared and we will continue to support each other.

[jo.jo76]

At playgroup today, right at the end I was just as we were about to walk out the door, one of the playworkers said, could we all hold on a moment as one of the Mums wanted to ask us all something. I stopped to hear this Mum say - "I work for a childcare agency" (in my head I freaked out! What was she about to say!!! lol) She said she worked for Nannytax and was looking for parents willing to discuss the changes to the childcare vouchers scheme. I was a little relieved but still left feeling a bit freaked out!

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I noticed that Stuart Turner was involved but whilst he lobbeyed for NCMA he never actually produced anything.... talk talk talk...

I have registered just to see what is going on.

I also registered my chatterbox email only to be told that it was already registered, so either they have got my details from NCMA (ummm I didn't give permission for that) or someone has registered on my behalf.

Open page until tomorrow but I think if these and PACEY are halved in membership them so is out clout at government level.

[Mouse]

I noticed that Stuart Turner was involved but whilst he lobbeyed for NCMA he never actually produced anything.... talk talk talk...

I have registered just to see what is going on.

I also registered my chatterbox email only to be told that it was already registered, so either they have got my details from NCMA (ummm I didn't give permission for that) or someone has registered on my behalf.

Open page until tomorrow but I think if these and PACEY are halved in membership them so is out clout at government level.

Someone else said that had happened. If it's a glitch it's bad, but maybe understandable. If it's any other reason, that's really not good :panic:

[loocyloo]

I noticed that Stuart Turner was involved but whilst he lobbeyed for NCMA he never actually produced anything.... talk talk talk...

I have registered just to see what is going on.

I also registered my chatterbox email only to be told that it was already registered, so either they have got my details from NCMA (ummm I didn't give permission for that) or someone has registered on my behalf.

Open page until tomorrow but I think if these and PACEY are halved in membership them so is out clout at government level.

i tried to register, but it didn't seem to 'go' for ages, so i tried again, and my email was already registered. i am pretty sure the email i used was the same one i use for everything ... might go and try my childminding one and see what happens!

i'm now registered twice :rolleyes: so it won't be from NCMA that my email was got.

[phoenix2010]

werent these supposed to launch yesterday?

[Simona]

Those who registered an interest should know more than those who haven't?? any more news as you can access the site?

[phoenix2010]

I registered but heard nothing , looking on their site it says something about delays

doesnt exactly instill confidence does it

[Mouse]

I looked yesterday but it said there was a problem with something or other & it would be up & running today. I've just looked again & even though the message is still the same they have now removed any start date.

So no launch yet :rolleyes:

[phoenix2010]

oh well , we dont need it anyway Independent Childminders - Supporting each other (http://independentchildminders.co.uk/)

[mazza58]

I have received an e mail today from the homecare agency and it says that there is going to be a meeting for anyone interested in may, it also gives a look at their updated page on agencies and it seems that we might be panicking too much it says that childminders can become part of an agency and still be independent. I am not wanting to join an agency but I think until we have all the facts maybe we should wait and see what is going to happen, as i have found through experience over the years I have wasted many hours and sleepless nights worrying over things that never turned out as bad as I thought it would

[Simona]

You are spot on ...we need all the facts, like everything else things may change as all reforms are taking a bit of a battering!
No one is panicking just awaiting clarification...rather different but good of them to 'reassure' us?

Rather conflicting statement that you can join an agency and remain independent?
unless she is referring to the ******* which is an association for indpendent cms? ...so is Pacey...and PLA and UKCMA when we dicover what they are about...all these will compete to attract independent cms?

However relinquishing our Ofsted number, having someone who draws c/vs and funding is not to me being 'independent' but 'dependent' on their services, and paying for them, because we prefer the agency to provide them or we are supposed to be a bit unsure how to run our business?

If they insist on their paperwork that also takes away any ability to develop business skills and the ability to argue with an inspector because you have produced your own and 'understand' it not being cloned into a unit...where is the aspiration for these cms?
oh I remember someone saying we can then be free to do what we do best...look after the children!! as if we run around with paperwork under our arm all day?

Be aware of clever marketing!
The DfE has said many models are being suggested ...so even if one wants to go into an agency cms will have a choice of what type of agency??
So lets fluff the cushions and sit comfortably for a while...but keep in mind what you need to do to be a sustainable independent cm?

[justgoodfriends]

Membership is now open!

Products | Independent Childminders Social Enterprise CICIndependent Childminders Social Enterprise CIC (http://www.****************/membership/)

£84 p.a. inc. insurance

[Simona]

Chatterbox ...you think S turner was just talk? many may disagree, he was a very knowledgeable man who many feel really cared about cminding.
Why would you register an interest in ICM when you know you would not join? very strange...

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Chatterbox ...you think S turner was just talk? many may disagree, he was a very knowledgeable man who many feel really cared about cminding.
Why would you register an interest in ICM when you know you would not join? very strange...

I agree in that he cares about childminders and his enthusiasm was unwavering but what has it got us?

I registered because, like you, I like to know what is going on and my options. Nothing stops me from being members of more than 1 organisation and you are presuming that I haven't joined.

[Simona]

Chatterbox they guy left ncma as have many others recently...what is the point of making that remark about him now?
I felt it was very out of place here and a tiny bit sarcastic...I met S Turner and spoke to him several times...he did talk talk as you say but he did talk a lot of sense...at least to me!!

''what has he got us''??? I would reflect on that if I were you...where indeed are we now without him?

I am not presuming or assuming anything about what you have done...but question why as a member/supporter of ncma you would register your interest in another association ?
I also like to keep updated and I am doing by reading and info sharing for the moment

[SammySplodger]

Membership is now open!

Products | Independent Childminders Social Enterprise CICIndependent Childminders Social Enterprise CIC (http://www.****************/membership/)

£84 p.a. inc. insurance

I'm not intending to join, but I would be interested to know what they are offering - could info be fed through please? What do you get for £84 and is it (really) worth it.

Could anyone who joins up keep us in the loop?
Ta :-)

[phoenix2010]

I had a look yesterday and I couldnt work out what they were actually offering other than a lot of promises about representing childminders ???

all seems incredibly vague to me

unless Im completely missing the point , it looks like money for nothing

Taken from their site and if this is what they plan to do for us , then I think Ill keep my money because this is all just sales speak and actually says nothing we dont know or cant do for ourselves

"Our aim to listen to what you want and engage with fellow childminders across the country.
Professionals who are looking to create a positive way to support the development of the sector.
We would like to help you express an interest in remaining independent and self-employed.
As an Independent child minders you should set your own prices for your services in your setting.
House prices of the setting, nearness to schools and public transport will effect your costs.
You need to stay competitive but also earn a reasonable salary.
Independent child minders do not wish to give up some of their income to help pay to run an agency"

.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Chatterbox they guy left ncma as have many others recently...what is the point of making that remark about him now?
I felt it was very out of place here and a tiny bit sarcastic...I met S Turner and spoke to him several times...he did talk talk as you say but he did talk a lot of sense...at least to me!!

''what has he got us''??? I would reflect on that if I were you...where indeed are we now without him?

I am not presuming or assuming anything about what you have done...but question why as a member/supporter of ncma you would register your interest in another association ?
I also like to keep updated and I am doing by reading and info sharing for the moment

I have my opinion and am not changing it. I like you, will do as I please and I don't want this to get nasty but I don't feel I need to answer to you. Please keep to the thread subject

[SammySplodger]

I had a look yesterday and I couldnt work out what they were actually offering other than a lot of promises about representing childminders ???

all seems incredibly vague to me

unless Im completely missing the point , it looks like money for nothing

Taken from their site and if this is what they plan to do for us , then I think Ill keep my money because this is all just sales speak and actually says nothing we dont know or cant do for ourselves

"Our aim to listen to what you want and engage with fellow childminders across the country.
Professionals who are looking to create a positive way to support the development of the sector.
We would like to help you express an interest in remaining independent and self-employed.
As an Independent child minders you should set your own prices for your services in your setting.
House prices of the setting, nearness to schools and public transport will effect your costs.
You need to stay competitive but also earn a reasonable salary.
Independent child minders do not wish to give up some of their income to help pay to run an agency"

.

Yes - I don't get it either...
Sounds like a lot of old guff to me :-)

[justgoodfriends]

House price of the setting shouldn't make a difference to how much we charge?

[FussyElmo]

House price of the setting shouldn't make a difference to how much we charge?

Totally agree what a load of crock. Im in 10 mins walking distance of 3 schools and on a public transport route however live in a so called deprived area so house prices are low. So how they work that out :angry:

[rickysmiths]

House price of the setting shouldn't make a difference to how much we charge?

Yes it does actually and I think they have worded it poorly. I think they are referring to the fact that where you live makes a difference to what you can charge.

For example the average fees within a mile of me in one direction are now £5ph. If you drive a mile in the other direction to an fairy exclusive small much desired town where the average price of housing easily exceeds £500,000, where a one form entry Primary school easily raises £24,000 a year via the PA and the fees cm charge are a min £6ph and I have recently heard of one charging £8ph now I could never charge that even though I prob live in a bigger house than most of them!!!

[FussyElmo]

Yes it does actually and I think they have worded it poorly. I think they are referring to the fact that where you live makes a difference to what you can charge.

For example the average fees within a mile of me in one direction are now £5ph. If you drive a mile in the other direction to an fairy exclusive small much desired town where the average price of housing easily exceeds £500,000, where a one form entry Primary school easily raises £24,000 a year via the PA and the fees cm charge are a min £6ph and I have recently heard of one charging £8ph now I could never charge that even though I prob live in a bigger house than most of them!!!

Doesn't instil much confidence if they don't know how to word the basics. House prices have nothing to do it with the pricing structure the affluency (if this is such a word) of the area which it always has been.

[phoenix2010]

Theres a correlation between house prices and childminder fees

but its not the main factor, it is more to do with the affluency of an area , employment rate, location transport links , good schools

Rates vary from north to south from city to village , its about supply and demand and what the peole in that area can afford and feel is a fair rate

so its more complicated that that , but its a simplistic way of putting it

There isnt a single sentence on that website that fills me with confidence , in fact the way things are structured and written and the complete lack of a clear explanation as to what exactly they are offering had me running in the other direction

[Simona]

The information is being constantly updated reflecting the drip drip of info from the DfE...worth reading FAQs which gives a hint of what the inspection fee may be for cms and nurseries

In my view they are in direct competition with ncma as PLA and UKCMA have not really published anything as yet.
PLA do not even mention cms on their website but they have offered m'ship for a long time...puzzling
This I suppose will give cms a choice of who they want to pay to represent them

Like ncma ICM will recruit new cms to enter the 'market' which is part of the DfE Statement of policy on page 3 (4)