Rude and disrespectful children

[Rayin]

I'm here as a nanny, not a childminder, don't think there is a nanny forum about! But wanted to get some perspective on this. I started nannying for three boys 7 weeks ago. 16m, 4 and 6. 16mo is fine. Parents generally lovely. I am having a hard time bonding with the 6yo, and to a lesser extent, the 4yo. Part of it is because they are at school/preschool some of the time I am nannying, but by now I would have hoped things would have improved. They are often rude, ignoring me when I ask them to do something (or not do something), when I enforce a rule (no sweets until after dinner, for example) they get very upset. The 4yo often hits/punches me and shouts 'you're naughty, I don't want you to be my babysitter any more, I'm not talking to you' etc. The 6yo has been known to throw things (once a dining chair), also shouts I'm never talking to you again, I don't want you to babysit me any more, you're horrible. Meals I make are referred to as "yuck" 9 times out of 10. They often tell me "you're not the boss of this house, mummy is, and when mummy isn't here 6yo is the boss!", the 4yo tells me he isn't going to listen to me but listen to 6yo. They use time outs for unwanted behaviour, so have been doing this also when nessecary, but putting a strong 6yo boy in time out isn't easy! I am 4'11 and he's not that much shorter than me. They seem to have no respect for me at all. Either I'm not old enough (I'm 25, but younger than mum) or not as wise or clever as the 6yo's teacher (both things they have told me!).

As a professional nanny I try not to take these things to heart but there is really only so much I can take. I'm fed up of being hit, told I'm not being listened to, being resisted constantly when I take them out. I have knowledge of child development and behaviour, and I know that they're behaving this way because they feel threatened by me being in the house, that I am trying to replace their mum (I'm not, obviously!), but really, I'm dreading going to work these days, I dreaded half term because I knew I'd have all three of them all day. I have worked in nurseries and out of school clubs and yes I have witnessed unwanted behaviour, but not this prolonged. I have spoken to the parents about the 6yo on numerous occasions (and on one occasion I spoke with his teacher) and they do speak to him and ask him to apologise to me, which he does, and it improves for about half a day before they start resisting me again. I have been nothing but kind, playful, respectful and understanding of them. I think I'm fair and firm when required. I just don't know what else I can do. Before I started everyone who knew them (previous childminder, cleaner, parents) told me they were lovely kids and I'd have no problems. I have a hunch that if I was childminding them in my own home that it would be a totally different ball game, but because I'm in their house I'm "just a babysitter" to them.

So that turned into more of a rant than a question! But how much of this is normal for 4 and 6 year olds? Is it acceptable? I really don't want to hand in my notice and let the parents down (not to mention they have already paid my ofsted reg fee and are collecting a backlog of childcare vouchers which they can't use to pay me until I'm registered), but I'm becoming increasingly unhappy about this job.

[sarah707]

There is a nanny association - their website doesn't seem to be working at the moment though - here is their FB contact details - B.A.P.N (British Association of Professional Nannies) - About | Facebook (http://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/BAPN-British-Association-of-Professional-Nannies/281768311834056?sk=info&filter=12).

However, you are welcome to post here and I am sure our members will support you.

No - it's not normal and it's not acceptable behaviour.

if i was to carry on i'd expect clear sanctions in place by parents and a strategy worked out to stop the behaviour quickly.

Hugs x

[cathtee]

:group hug: I'm not sure what to say other than keep up what you are doing it sounds like you are doing all the right things, the lo's will
soon get fed up of being horrid when they don't get their own way.

[vals]

I can imagine it being so much harder being in their home. In our own homes we can say 'these are my rules, in my home', but much harder in their home. Are they worse when they are together? wondering if you could sit them down individually and have a chat, reassure them that you are there to help look after them. Maybe they could have an area where you don't go into -might be a bit risky depending on behaviour - but just a corner what was theirs and not yours - wonder if it feels like an invasion of space ie. their home.
Other thing is, they are old enough for reward charts maybe - I am not a fan, but they work for some children.
Have they had several nannys? if they have had others, maybe its an insecurity thing, and children would often turn that into aggression and anger.

[bunyip]

There is a nanny association - their website doesn't seem to be working at the moment though - here is their FB contact details - B.A.P.N (British Association of Professional Nannies) - About | Facebook (http://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/BAPN-British-Association-of-Professional-Nannies/281768311834056?sk=info&filter=12).

However, you are welcome to post here and I am sure our members will support you.

No - it's not normal and it's not acceptable behaviour.

if i was to carry on i'd expect clear sanctions in place by parents and a strategy worked out to stop the behaviour quickly.

Hugs x

I agree. And as an employee, you have a right to be protected from violent behaviour. :mad:

[mushpea]

have you tried sitting down with the 6yrold and talking to him about his feelings? I had trouble with an 8yrold when he first started with me, I am his 3rd childminder due to his behaviour and after the first week I made a feelings face chart, sat down with him and asked him to point to the one he felt like at certain times like when he felt angry and when he was upset and when he was being aggravaiting to the others, we then discussed how we could deal with this and came up with a 'face chart' so each time he was kind or had played nicely for 15mins he got a smiley face, each time there was unwanted behaviour he got a sad face , this visual aid seemed to help him understand how his behaviour was affecting others and also how he got treated ie naughty meant time out and no treats, at the end of the day if he had more smileys than sad faces his mum gave him a marble , x amount of marlbes earnt him a treat, he started October by december we had took down the charts as we no longer needed them.
could you talk to the 6yrold about how he feels, let him understand you know its hard for him and that you are not there to replace mum but to be an extra adult whilst mum is working, prehaps talk to him about his behaviour and how he feels when he starts to throw stuff and how you can hellp him to deal with his anger then prehaps you could talk to mum about a reward chart for him, but talk to him when the others arent around so be honest with the 4yrold and tell him you need to talk to his brother alone and when your done you will talk with him as you want things to be better,
I was honest with the 8yrold and told him I realised it could be embarrasing for him coming here and that I wanted it to be a nice time and for him to enjoy himself and that I didnt like having to tell him off lots as it made me feel sad too.
prehaps the other 2 could watch tv or an activity they can do alone whilst you talk to the 6yrold or do it when mum and dad are home to entertain the other 2 so you can sit with the 6yrold on his own. if he feels threatend talking to him and helping him to understand you are not the bad nanny come to take over may hellp (i realise you are not a bad nanny of course!)

[wendywu]

I would put this back into the parents hands. Get them to explain to the older two with you present that this is unacceptable behavior from them towards anyone, not just you.

Get them to tell the boys that the moment they get in from work you will all get together and mum and dad will ask you if there has been any unwanted behavior. This also gives you the chance to praise them if they have been good.
You and the parents have to put on a united front , so that you are a unit together and your not just the hired help in the boys eyes.

Tell the parents you will give it 4 weeks and if it does not stop then you will be forced to leave. I would be so ashamed if my children acted like this. :mad:

[Rayin]

Thanks for all your responses, some good ideas here.

Yes I've tried talking to 6yo about his feelings and acknowledging them and being understanding. Face and feelings chart sounds like a good idea , will ask parents if they are interested. It's quite hard to get him to talk to me on his own as he's generally playing with his brother, if I try to steer him away from that it sets him off again and he goes and locks himself in the bathroom. With a 16mo crawling around as well it's quite difficult to get one on one time with 6yo. I don't get a lot of time with him at all tbh, I only work 3 days and one of them is 9-3 so mum does school run, and on one day he's at a school club so I just see him for an hour after school, the other day I have him about 2 hrs. Parents want me to do reading/homework with him as well, there's no way that's going to happen at the moment with how he feels towards me and also there's just not enough time after making dinner.

Would it be really unprofessional to email mum with my concerns? I'm presuming this should be discussed in person. I'm terrible at confrontation :rolleyes:

[jillplum]

I dont know about an email but could you give her a ring. It might be easier to be strong on the phone rather than face to face. You can say that you are ringing so that you can talk without the children being present. It is not fair on you to have to put up withthis kind of behaviour. Parents need to back you up 100% or it wont get any better. Good luck

[Ripeberry]

What happened to the previous Nanny? Did she leave due to the kids behavior?

[Goatgirl]

Hi,
I think an email is a good idea as a prelude to a full discussion, especially if you're finding it difficult to approach the parents/ they aren't taking your concerns seriously. It will show them how much this is affecting you and also give parents a chance to absorb and mull over the contents before you sit down together to discuss a way forward.

Hope it gets sorted out soon, it does sound horrible: I'd be dreading the times when the older children were there :(. Glad you managed to find us and get some moral support :)

[loocyloo]

i would write down a list of points you want to remember, and then ring mum and talk to her.

its hard if the children do not want you there.

i nannied for years and had one family where the eldest child ( 9yrs ) was at boarding school, and when he was home in the holidays was incredibly put out to discover he was expected to spend time with the 'babies' ( next youngest was 3 yrs younger than him ) after talking things through with his parents, he accepted he had to be with me some days ( dad was a teacher, so often around during the holidays too ) and if he behaved/helped on those days, then he could spend days with dad ! ( i know that comes across as being with me was a punishment, it wasn't really like that! we did do fun stuff ;)) we tolerated each other for 2 years and when i left i honestly didn't miss him or even think about him .... roll on 10 years and i was in a local shop and this tall young man turned round and said 'hello loocyloo, how are you?' ... it was this 'child'! we had a nice chat, but i was reeling that 10 yrs on he recognised me!

good luck xxx

[MessybutHappy]

If you put in some positives and also suggest some methods of dealing with the issues too, that'll help, then the phone call can be more about discussing your ideas to improve things than the childrens behaviour.

[blue bear]

years ago i took over running a beaver scout group, the children would run riot, hitting each other with sticks, spitting, shouting over each other, totally ignoring the adults, we dont have to do as you say was their answer to everything.they had had seven leaders leave due to their beaviour, I was stubborn and refused to be beaten, i set up little pots and every time a child did something positive no matter how small, a sweet went in the pot, at the end of the term the sweets were to be shared out between a group of six, so the more theybehaved the more sweets they would have to share.
they were rewarded for saying please and thank you, standing nicely in line, waiting to speak, doing as asked etc, very small things but made an amazing difference.
now I appreciate sweets may not be appropriate but think of another type of treat, cinema night, trip to park etc but make it something you wouldnt normally do.

next sit down with the older boys and write out a list of rules and sanctions together, often children are much harsher than we might be lol. always stick to the rules and sanctions, remind them they suggested them in the first place.

make some plans together of fun things to do together, definetly not homework to start with, if they totally misbehave then pratice fire drills instead, at first they will find it great fun but believe me they will soon tire of standing outside waiting for a non arriving fire engine, set a time amount and wait for that time to pass before they can re ente nthe house, once inside and they misbehave then out for another fire drill, saying in your sweetest voice, its such a shame we have do this when we could be doing x. divide and conquer, get one child on board first.

You need to be firm and fair with fun ideas up your sleeve for when they start to behave.

[Rayin]

To be honest, the more I think about this job the more I want to quit. I'm financially no better off for having this job (I'm a single parent with 20mo DS) and feel like I'm missing out on my son, for a job I don't enjoy and am financially no better off for having. I just don't think I'm the right nanny for their family, I'm not particularly 'disciplinarian', I prefer a more gentle approach, but it's obviously what they need. I don't feel like I'm doing what I'm trained to do - which is facilitate play and learning opportunities - more like I'm just holding the house together for mum while she's at work. I knew there would be child related chores when I started but it seems like this is the bulk of the job rather than anything else. I have to try to snatch 10 mins of play here and there when I can in between cooking, doing laundry, ironing, folding and putting away clothes, (all children's clothes, but three boys make a lot of laundry!), school run and changing their beds (I only work 25 hours a week I might add, so I have to squeeze it all into 2.5 days!). I've only managed to set up actual activities a few times (and even then only the baby is interested in what I can do with him during school hours - the older ones totally snubbed my one sticking activity!)

But of course I'd feel terribly guilty about quitting after 7 weeks. If there wasn't the financial situation with the childcare vouchers/ofsted registration it would make it easier I think. I know I should try to work out the problems with the parents before quitting but it's not very appealing... :idea:

[vikkit]

years ago i took over running a beaver scout group, the children would run riot, hitting each other with sticks, spitting, shouting over each other, totally ignoring the adults, we dont have to do as you say was their answer to everything.they had had seven leaders leave due to their beaviour, I was stubborn and refused to be beaten, i set up little pots and every time a child did something positive no matter how small, a sweet went in the pot, at the end of the term the sweets were to be shared out between a group of six, so the more theybehaved the more sweets they would have to share.
they were rewarded for saying please and thank you, standing nicely in line, waiting to speak, doing as asked etc, very small things but made an amazing difference.
now I appreciate sweets may not be appropriate but think of another type of treat, cinema night, trip to park etc but make it something you wouldnt normally do.


I would the same thing but have a pasta jar and had both the boys working toward the same treat

So if they are good a piece of pasta goes in the jar and any unwanted behaviour pasta comes out. They have to fill the jar to be able to go to the cinema etc

That way they will also be working as a team too!!