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lorettacritchet
06-02-2013, 06:58 AM
Back in November 2012, I wrote and said how upset i was over a parent leaving etc and how out of the blue it was. She was left with a £2,104 bill which I am still struggling to get out of her.

SHe has only just now disputed it through my solicitor completely attacking my daughter saying how aggressive she was deliberately walking around all the babies "hurting and making them cry".....omg if I could explain just how these few words upset me. My daughter is the same as any other 3 year old. She wants her own personal space and doesn't appreciate having toys taken off her while she is playing and she further blames my daughter for a bruise her older daughter got a day after being at a soft play centre where this girl was regularly bouncing up and down with other children, running around etc - beside the point no violence ever occured, I am not a mother to ever let that go either and I have always followed my mothering instinct by installing discipline with my daughter. What gets me is if this mother was so concerned about my daughters behaviour why on earth was she going to continue her year old's kids contract and give me her new born baby in what was meant to be last month!!! This letter to my solicitior continues to go on about my excessive sickness....I have had 7 days in between June and November mostly for my daughter's illness and 5 days of that I was with a severe ear infection and sickness!!

Now I know this woman is trying to reduce her bill etc but I am so worried she is going to take this further with an ofsted complaint. How do I prove that all of what she said was completely made up? I only just receivd this letter yesterday and I couldn't sleep.

blue bear
06-02-2013, 07:13 AM
I presume you are claiming throu your insurance company? Make sure they have a copy of the letter and take their advice.
Do you have any fellow childminders or friends who could write you references as to your behaviour towards your daughter, how you handled discipline etc.
I can't see your child's behaviour being used as an issue more your handling of the situation so if you can provide references from various sources about your abilities this should stand up to those accusations.

Have you written your sick days on your attendance register to prove how many days you have had off.

Ring ofsted and put them in the picture yourself, make them fully aware if the situation how much is outatanding and why and now after all this time she is writing to you saying this. Ofsted won't get involved in disputes over money no matter how a parent tries to dress it up as a complaint over care, especially after all this time.

merry
06-02-2013, 07:19 AM
What a cruel and nasty attack on your daughter, no wonder you feel upset. Now that you have her letter I would go through it, answering point by point every allegation she has made, if you have sickness and discipline policies refer to these, and make clear that no complaint was ever made until she was pursued for money owed. You can't stop her from complaining to Ofsted but if she does you can be ready to deny her allegations with facts and written evidence. If it comes to whether they believe her word or yours, the fact that she left owing you money and had appeared happy with everything right up until now will speak volumes to Ofsted. How long did she not pay you to run up such a huge bill? Practically impossible I know, but try not to take her attack on your daughter personally, some people will say anything to get out of paying:angry:

:)

Kiddleywinks
06-02-2013, 07:33 AM
Back in November 2012, I wrote and said how upset i was over a parent leaving etc and how out of the blue it was. She was left with a £2,104 bill which I am still struggling to get out of her.

SHe has only just now disputed it through my solicitor completely attacking my daughter saying how aggressive she was deliberately walking around all the babies "hurting and making them cry".....omg if I could explain just how these few words upset me. My daughter is the same as any other 3 year old. She wants her own personal space and doesn't appreciate having toys taken off her while she is playing and she further blames my daughter for a bruise her older daughter got a day after being at a soft play centre where this girl was regularly bouncing up and down with other children, running around etc - beside the point no violence ever occured, I am not a mother to ever let that go either and I have always followed my mothering instinct by installing discipline with my daughter. What gets me is if this mother was so concerned about my daughters behaviour why on earth was she going to continue her year old's kids contract and give me her new born baby in what was meant to be last month!!! This letter to my solicitior continues to go on about my excessive sickness....I have had 7 days in between June and November mostly for my daughter's illness and 5 days of that I was with a severe ear infection and sickness!!

Now I know this woman is trying to reduce her bill etc but I am so worried she is going to take this further with an ofsted complaint. How do I prove that all of what she said was completely made up? I only just receivd this letter yesterday and I couldn't sleep.


Short answer is you can't. However, she can't prove something that didn't happen either.

You have not received any complaint regarding the care given to her child prior to her leaving, or presumably when she left, so these comments would be taken with a pinch of salt by ofsted. If the parent had genuine concerns, she would have raised them with yourself or ofsted at the time, so clearly this is more a contractual dispute than anything sinister.

If you can do this with as little emotion as you can muster (keeping it short and sweet and to the facts only) make a kind of diary of events leading up to the notice period.
Include any feedback forms you gave parent, any positive comments made, any letters or requests for additional hours etc, any communication between the two of you.
The idea of this is to show that there WAS nothing wrong, or if there was, it WASN'T brought to your attention at the time.

I would then list all the 'complaints' you have separately, and respond to them with the facts as you know them ie:

Alleged bruise received by my daughter - Soft play session on xx date, parent advised, copy of incident report attached.
Excessive illness - date, ear infection, sought medical attention, medication issued, length of illness 5 days. Parents advised on xx date

Try not to let these comments overwhelm you, that's what they're trying to do - knock you off balance.
At the end of the day, you are owed money, they don't want to pay it so will use dirty and underhanded tactics to avoid doing so.

:group hug:

lorettacritchet
06-02-2013, 09:23 AM
I have already written a three page letter back to my solicitors in response to this woman's points, pointing out exactly what did happen i.e. bruise, the mother agreeing with me re: soft play and saying her daughter easily bruised and that the woman could have complained and further more agreed to hand me over her newborn child on a full time basis which were not actions of a concerned mother. I said I have nothing but fabulous recommendations from my past and current parents none of who have complained about me or how i handle things. Many of these parents have seen my child around theirs and nothing dramatic has happened - even sometimes their own child is being hugged and kissed by my daughter!!!!

With regards to how i handle my daughter, I am not going to say she is an angel because she isnt, she is the same as every other 3 year old and does have a few tantrums but it;s handled by ignoring her and she isn't causing any physical harm to anyone in my care. She has some issues when she won't share or just wants her personal space but nothing to the extent of what this woman has said!! My daughter is given three warnings same as everyone else in my setting.

I am dealing through this with the ncma solicitors simply because this woman won't deal with me, answer my calls, reply back to my letters and I knew it would not be simple to get my money after her terminating the contract.

With regards to fees I believed, as it was my first time, that university grants would ensure me payment for definete and everything had been working fine until she left. This woman did give me the form just after xmas, I completed it and returned it to the uni on 3rd January, this woman now waits until February to respond to my solicitors' request for monies!

wendywu
06-02-2013, 09:29 AM
That is a massive amount of money to owe you, so im suprised that she did not claim that you chopped the children up in little peices and buried them under the patio to get out of paying it.

She is taking the easy option here, accusing your daughter is safe as if if does not work in her favour she can always go down the .... well shes just a normal 3 year old child isnt she.

If she accuses you of anything its not so eays to back down is it, SS and Ofsted and the police would be involved and she could get into trouble for false information and wasting police time.

I can see her mind thinking ...well its worth a shot to get my bill reduced. This has nothing to do with your daughter at all just about mum keeping her pennies in the bank.

Please dont worry , good advive given by the others :thumbsup:

bunyip
06-02-2013, 10:32 AM
Excellent advice all round and you seem to be taking a very sensible approach.

I know it's not easy, but try not to let it get to you. You know you've done nothing wrong and so there's nothing there to be proved. Be sure to get some emotional support from family, friends and colleagues so your confidence and well-being isn't undermined. :group hug:

Remember, the mum is only doing this because she wants to offload the guilt of her own bad behaviour (ie. stealing from you by not paying you) onto you and to try and bully you into letting the debt go. Because it's a big debt, it's a big issue - which is why her accusations are particularly nasty.

I'd content myself with the thought that the mum has almost certainly shot herself in the foot. Not only can she not support her accusations, but she has undermined her own case by leaving it so long to bring up these supposed 'incidents'. What sort of mum would actually ignore alleged injuries/assaults/incidents for so long? It just proves what she's really up to - I hope your solicitors are clear about that.

All the best. :)

Ripeberry
06-02-2013, 11:08 AM
Ignore it. She's desperate not to pay what she owes you and is attacking the weakest spot she can find. She does not have a leg to stand on. Hope they wipe the floor with her :thumbsup:

lorettacritchet
06-02-2013, 12:21 PM
Mwah thanks guys, dont know why but makes me feel so much better talking to you guys than my husband, who don't get me wrong is supportive but guess no one really knows what its like to be a cm unless you are one!

So question leaves me with do I tell Ofsted and if so how/what do I say? "Hi, I want to let you know got an evil woman on my back etc" :clapping:

wendywu
06-02-2013, 12:24 PM
That is a massive amount of money to owe you, so im suprised that she did not claim that you chopped the children up in little peices and buried them under the patio to get out of paying it.

She is taking the easy option here, accusing your daughter is safe as if if does not work in her favour she can always go down the .... well shes just a normal 3 year old child isnt she.

If she accuses you of anything its not so eays to back down is it, SS and Ofsted and the police would be involved and she could get into trouble for false information and wasting police time.

I can see her mind thinking ...well its worth a shot to get my bill reduced. This has nothing to do with your daughter at all just about mum keeping her pennies in the bank.

Please dont worry , good advive given by the others :thumbsup:

Gosh really bad spelling you can tell i was typing that during the morning rush,

shortstuff
06-02-2013, 12:47 PM
I would call ofsted and say a situation has arisen that you feel they need to be aware of? Would be my suggestion hth

bunyip
06-02-2013, 12:51 PM
Mwah thanks guys, dont know why but makes me feel so much better talking to you guys than my husband, who don't get me wrong is supportive but guess no one really knows what its like to be a cm unless you are one!

So question leaves me with do I tell Ofsted and if so how/what do I say? "Hi, I want to let you know got an evil woman on my back etc" :clapping:

Ofsted don't get involved in contract/payment disputes. But it won't hurt to 'prime' them with the possibility that they may receive a malicious complaint as a result of the mum's disgust as being expected to settle her bill. If she complained to Ofsted, and if they decided to follow it up, then it would be in the normal manner. That is, are you fulfilling the requirements of EYFS and the Childcare Register? And, did you handle, investigate, document, and respond to any alleged incidents/complaints in the proper manner?

You should check the 'Complaints' regulations in EYFS (Statutory Framework 3.73 - 3.74). Also check with the NCMA legal team and ask Ofsted for advice. It's a bit complicated cos:-

IIUC the child was not in your care when the mum complained
the complaint appears to have been made through your NCMA legal team, rather than in the normal way (ie. directly to you, the provider.)

so I'd check whether Ofsted think it amounts to a complaint for the purposes of regulation.

To be on the safe side, I'd make sure all alleged incidents were recorded and detailed, with a note of what your response was to the mum and what her reaction was at the time. This might include a reflective review of your risk assessment for the particular situation. (eg. Ofsted do realise that children have falls in sof play centres, but also like to know that you've had a think about whether or not you could minimise the risks any further.) If Ofsted want you to treat the mum's comments as a complaint, then you must respond to the mum within 28 days. Do this efficiently and politely: it could be "I have investigated fully and find no further action is required." You must take legal advice on this and respond as advised. You must also keep a record of the complaint, action taken, response, etc. as per EYFS 3.73

vickylou
06-02-2013, 01:34 PM
Oh I feel for you, have been there. About 8 years ago I had a contract dispute with a parent, whilst this was going on one day SS turned up at my door unannounced, she had made an allegation that I'd smacked her daughter. A week later I received a phone call to say she had made a new complaint this was now sexual abuse!!! I'd heard she was going to do this as she was bragging about it in the playground!!! This all dragged on for about 3 months, never heard from Ofsted. Anyway I was eventually cleared after her poor daughter had to go investigations under general anaesthetic to see whether there were signs of abuse!! Which there wasn't!! ( who would put their child through that!!) it actually turned out it was my ds and ds she'd accused of poking her in the privates with a stick. I then received a visit from Ofsted who hadn't been informed by SS of any if this, but if I had I would of been suspended. Anyway Ofsted just checked my policies. Etc. they said in future to inform them if any problems with parents. My in depth paperwork I'd kept through all this helped prove my innocence. So that's what I recommend get accident reports, incident reports, correspondence with her or NCMA together and keep any texts etc you should receive from her. Also contact Ofsted as it may work in your favour if she decides to go to them with a complaint. I think because we are on our own we are very vulnerable to false accusation. I don't trust parents a lot of the time now, and I have a paper trail as long as my arm regarding accidents incidents etc. but I feel happy in the knowledge I can cover myself should some stupid parent do it again. It's usually down to money but it puts you through hell affects you & your family.

lorettacritchet
06-02-2013, 04:19 PM
Ahhh you see this is where it gets slightly complicated.......:blush:

When the bruise was mentioned it was only because I asked why the older child didn't turn up, it wasn't because this woman wanted to have a word with me. Secondly I never saw any bruises and didnt feel it necessary to write any form of a report on it - that is probably where my fault lies. By the time I saw the daughter again it had been a long time past. There was no specific fall at the soft play centre but if someone bruises easily as the mother says then surely climbing up, kneeing to go through tunnels, trampoling and falling on your bum etc can lead to this?

I am not even sure if this letter regarding my fees is classed as a complaint as there is nothing there to say it is or that they have complained to ofsted etc although writing it in incident reports for my records is a good idea.



Ofsted don't get involved in contract/payment disputes. But it won't hurt to 'prime' them with the possibility that they may receive a malicious complaint as a result of the mum's disgust as being expected to settle her bill. If she complained to Ofsted, and if they decided to follow it up, then it would be in the normal manner. That is, are you fulfilling the requirements of EYFS and the Childcare Register? And, did you handle, investigate, document, and respond to any alleged incidents/complaints in the proper manner?

You should check the 'Complaints' regulations in EYFS (Statutory Framework 3.73 - 3.74). Also check with the NCMA legal team and ask Ofsted for advice. It's a bit complicated cos:-

IIUC the child was not in your care when the mum complained
the complaint appears to have been made through your NCMA legal team, rather than in the normal way (ie. directly to you, the provider.)

so I'd check whether Ofsted think it amounts to a complaint for the purposes of regulation.

To be on the safe side, I'd make sure all alleged incidents were recorded and detailed, with a note of what your response was to the mum and what her reaction was at the time. This might include a reflective review of your risk assessment for the particular situation. (eg. Ofsted do realise that children have falls in sof play centres, but also like to know that you've had a think about whether or not you could minimise the risks any further.) If Ofsted want you to treat the mum's comments as a complaint, then you must respond to the mum within 28 days. Do this efficiently and politely: it could be "I have investigated fully and find no further action is required." You must take legal advice on this and respond as advised. You must also keep a record of the complaint, action taken, response, etc. as per EYFS 3.73

bunyip
07-02-2013, 06:12 PM
Ahhh you see this is where it gets slightly complicated.......:blush:

When the bruise was mentioned it was only because I asked why the older child didn't turn up, it wasn't because this woman wanted to have a word with me. Secondly I never saw any bruises and didnt feel it necessary to write any form of a report on it - that is probably where my fault lies. By the time I saw the daughter again it had been a long time past. There was no specific fall at the soft play centre but if someone bruises easily as the mother says then surely climbing up, kneeing to go through tunnels, trampoling and falling on your bum etc can lead to this?

I am not even sure if this letter regarding my fees is classed as a complaint as there is nothing there to say it is or that they have complained to ofsted etc although writing it in incident reports for my records is a good idea.

I would make an incident log item saying that you have been made aware of an alleged bruise. Note both the date of the alleged incident and the date of her letter (to the solicitor?) informing you of same - the disparity between the dates should be enough to make any sensible Ofsted inspector think "what is the mum's motivation here?" Note that you were not informed directly, but through your solicitor and only in response to you initiating the recovery of a debt. I think the circumstances of the mum's reporting are highly significant. State that the bruise was not apparent at the time; that no particular fall or other cause occurred; and that you have reviewed your risk assessment for the play centre outing on [insert date] and found it to be sufficient. You may wish to add that minor bruising is not uncommon during the normal use of such a facility, but you believe it to be within the normal safe limits of allowing children to explore and achieve through physical activity.

I am not a solicitor, so do not take this as advice. Check with your solicitor first, as they will know what it is wise to say or not say. Apart from anything else, I was not there - only you know the factual sequence of events.

Have you asked NCMA legal and/or Ofsted whether they believe you should treat it as a complaint? Maybe mum has to explicitly say, "this is a complaint" or maybe anything that alludes to EYFS requirements should be treated as a complaint. :huh: I think it would be in your best interests to check. I'm not trying to worry you, but I think it would be sensible to cover yourself just in case, rather than just hope for the best.

Best wishes. :thumbsup:

lorettacritchet
07-02-2013, 10:21 PM
I have looked at the letter from the woman. It literally states my charges for the older daughter isn't valid as I didn't have a contract for her then all of a sudden it jumps to "We have also on many occassions noticed etc"......There are no dates of the alleged bruise nor of these supposed witnessed events mentioned just a paragraph then leads on to "therefore following this free of charge agreement we will be deducting these charges etc" . What do I do now?

I rang Ofsted today they took notes and just said that it would be a note on my file but that i should just follow my procedures in this case....and continue as normal?????? still confused. Asking my solicitor she suggests I respond to the points following my complaints procedure

I feel like I have done something so wrong and yet i know my only fault was not keeping an appropriate file or even a simple note on this older daughter so as to prove that there was no bruise or even that I just didn't see one.


I would make an incident log item saying that you have been made aware of an alleged bruise. Note both the date of the alleged incident and the date of her letter (to the solicitor?) informing you of same - the disparity between the dates should be enough to make any sensible Ofsted inspector think "what is the mum's motivation here?" Note that you were not informed directly, but through your solicitor and only in response to you initiating the recovery of a debt. I think the circumstances of the mum's reporting are highly significant. State that the bruise was not apparent at the time; that no particular fall or other cause occurred; and that you have reviewed your risk assessment for the play centre outing on [insert date] and found it to be sufficient. You may wish to add that minor bruising is not uncommon during the normal use of such a facility, but you believe it to be within the normal safe limits of allowing children to explore and achieve through physical activity.

I am not a solicitor, so do not take this as advice. Check with your solicitor first, as they will know what it is wise to say or not say. Apart from anything else, I was not there - only you know the factual sequence of events.

Have you asked NCMA legal and/or Ofsted whether they believe you should treat it as a complaint? Maybe mum has to explicitly say, "this is a complaint" or maybe anything that alludes to EYFS requirements should be treated as a complaint. :huh: I think it would be in your best interests to check. I'm not trying to worry you, but I think it would be sensible to cover yourself just in case, rather than just hope for the best.

Best wishes. :thumbsup:

bunyip
10-02-2013, 01:50 PM
I have looked at the letter from the woman. It literally states my charges for the older daughter isn't valid as I didn't have a contract for her then all of a sudden it jumps to "We have also on many occassions noticed etc"......There are no dates of the alleged bruise nor of these supposed witnessed events mentioned just a paragraph then leads on to "therefore following this free of charge agreement we will be deducting these charges etc" . What do I do now?

I rang Ofsted today they took notes and just said that it would be a note on my file but that i should just follow my procedures in this case....and continue as normal?????? still confused. Asking my solicitor she suggests I respond to the points following my complaints procedure

I feel like I have done something so wrong and yet i know my only fault was not keeping an appropriate file or even a simple note on this older daughter so as to prove that there was no bruise or even that I just didn't see one.

I would recommend you closely follow your solicitor's advice. They know best, and that's what you're paying them for. If you don't, it can undermine their ability to support you. Btw, do you have an independent family solicitor on the case, or do you mean an NCMA legal department solicitor?

I'd say that's good news from Ofsted. It strongly suggests they have not received any direct complaint. If they felt you had done anything wrong or a child was at risk they'd have moved very fast to investigate. Even if they follow this up later, then it's a big plus in your favour that you informed them and asked for advice. :thumbsup: Therefore, I should do exactly what Ofsted and the solicitor have said: follow your complaints procedure to respond to the points raised by the mum. EYFS (Statutory Framework 3.73) requires CMs to investigate any complaint which relates to EYFS requirements and notify the complainant of the outcome of their investigation within 28 days of receiving the complaint. So I think that's what you need to be doing.

:confused: I am confused. I was under the impression that the mum's complaint related to a specific trip to a play centre. Now you say she is alluding to what she alleges to have seen "on many occasions" ??? It is vital to know which is the case, and whether she has identified any specific dates/incidents, as that will be the basis of your response.

Having not seen the letter, I'm a bit in the dark here, but guess the response needs to be along the lines of nothing having been observed by you or reported by the parent at the time. You need to make sure that you have a sound policy/procedure and demonstrate that you exercise due diligence in reporting and documenting all accidents. ie. You need to demonstrate that you do always record incidents/accidents when they happen. Otherwise, mum can say you never record anything anyway, so your evidence is flawed.

Does that make sense?

You must not feel bad about this. You can't be expected to make a daily record along the lines of "nothing has happened to this child" for every lo in your care. It would look very odd if you did. What else do you think you could've done that you haven't done already? :huh:

Remember, you are a registered CM with a CRB, safeguarding training, and passed by Ofsted as suitable to work with children. So they need to be convinced something bad has happened to think otherwise, and they don't even appear keen to investigate at this stage. The mum has no evidence, and does not seem to have reported anything to Ofsted. You've passed the information on to Ofsted and still they are not investigating. All mum appears to offer is a seemingly unfounded, non-specific allegation, a long time after anything is alleged to have happened.

I'm baffled by the mum's claim to the lack of a contract, and the "free of charge agreement" ??? Could you please elaborate?
Send me a private message if you'd rather not put it onto an open forum.

From a business point of view, you must make sure you never get put in this situation again with such a large outstanding sum owed. I and many other CMs work on on the basis of payment in advance, everytime for every client. No money = no care, and no exceptions. It is the only way to ensure parents make paying their CM a priority, and not something they can let slip, use and abuse.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult, or suggest you've done anything wrong at all. I just don't understand some of the details and they may be very important. :)