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FussyElmo
29-01-2013, 12:03 PM
http://www.*************/news/news/january_2013_news/more_great_childcare.aspx

FussyElmo
29-01-2013, 12:07 PM
NCMA's response in full:

NCMA responds to government proposals set out in More Great Childcare

Government plans in More Great Childcare contain some good news for childminding but significant concerns still remain, says NCMA, the professional association for registered childminders and nannies.

Liz Bayram, Joint Chief Executive, says, "Today’s decision to maintain the current ratio levels for registered childminders will be welcomed by our members and other childminders, who have spent months stating their concerns around proposals to increase the number of children a childminder can care for at one time. We are relieved that, after months of uncertainty, the Department has listened to the professionals doing the job on a daily basis and will maintain the current 1:6 ratio.

"However, increasing the number of under 5s a childminder can care for at one time to four and including two babies under 12 months rather than one, can only be justified if systems are put in place to support childminders to make the quality judgements needed to ensure each child in their care still receives a high quality experience.

"The plan does not seem to link this change to individual childminders holding higher Ofsted gradings, minimum qualifications nor the new Early Years Educator role. We know many of our members do not use their full ratio level at present, because such young children rightly demand high levels of individual attention and care to thrive."

Significant concerns also remain around the plan to offer childminders the option of registering with an Ofsted-inspected agency. NCMA refutes the claim that the number of active childminders has halved in the last 20 years and that this model will help recruit individuals into the profession.

Bayram continues, "Our fear is this will lead to a two-tiered system for childminding and risk its future sustainability. Whilst now only proposed as an option for childminders to choose, it remains based on the widely discredited Dutch system. We believe agencies will confuse parents, may not lead to Government’s desired quality improvements and could damage the hard-earned professionalism that childminders have achieved in recent years.

"Parents rely on Ofsted inspection of individual childminders to reassure them their child will be safe and receive a quality experience in that individual’s care. The current system places childminding on an equal footing with nursery and pre-school childcare. Introducing this approach risks parental confidence in childminding and so its sustainability.

"The Ofsted inspection of agencies will need to be rigourous to ensure the need to make a profit is balanced with the need to ensure quality. The idea that agencies will mean parents no longer need to check a childminder themselves or can find someone else with ease to care for their child if their childminder is ill, fails to recognise how engaged parents are in making careful decisions around the childcare they choose for their child. Parents want to ensure not only that it is high quality care but that their child likes the setting, the childminder and the other children s/he cares for.

"Ultimately the business model for an agency is based on recruiting lots of childminders willing to pay them a fee and, potentially a commission, for placing parents with them. It underestimates how to sustain quality improvement and how to support parents in choosing childcare."

nipper
29-01-2013, 12:07 PM
Link not working:panic:

Ok is now

FussyElmo
29-01-2013, 12:08 PM
I cheated copied and pasted :D

Mrs Scrubbit
29-01-2013, 12:12 PM
Thanks Fussy interesting reading x

Mice and Toad
29-01-2013, 12:54 PM
Stupid woman Agree with NCMA, no stupid agency!!!

bunyip
29-01-2013, 01:23 PM
Speaking as an NCMA member (i.e. a 'critical friend') I do worry when the organisation spends too much time listening to its own propaganda and not enough time listening to its members.


Parents rely on Ofsted inspection of individual childminders to reassure them their child will be safe and receive a quality experience in that individual’s care.

...no they don't. I was at an NCMA event where a table of CMs worked out they had close to 100 years total experience and had never been asked their grades by a parent.

Most parents appear to be thoroughly confused by Ofsted grades, NCMA's own system of differing membership classes, accreditation, EYP and all the rest of the guff that stems from industry navel-gazing. They (and I) have no idea why there can't just be registered CMs and let that be good enough. I personally think that the only priviledge that my own grading entitles me to is that I can say that sort of thing without being accused of sour grapes. No way would I say I'm better than most other CMs but NCMA want me to.

They should be showing solidarity with their membership and demanding that we all be treated equality, not implying that "some are more equal than others." :mad:

FussyElmo
29-01-2013, 01:37 PM
Speaking as an NCMA member (i.e. a 'critical friend') I do worry when the organisation spends too much time listening to its own propaganda and not enough time listening to its members.



...no they don't. I was at an NCMA event where a table of CMs worked out they had close to 100 years total experience and had never been asked their grades by a parent.

Most parents appear to be thoroughly confused by Ofsted grades, NCMA's own system of differing membership classes, accreditation, EYP and all the rest of the guff that stems from industry navel-gazing. They (and I) have no idea why there can't just be registered CMs and let that be good enough. I personally think that the only priviledge that my own grading entitles me to is that I can say that sort of thing without being accused of sour grapes. No way would I say I'm better than most other CMs but NCMA want me to.

They should be showing solidarity with their membership and demanding that we all be treated equality, not implying that "some are more equal than others." :mad:

And we all know what happened to poor Boxer!!!

bunyip
29-01-2013, 01:41 PM
And we all know what happened to poor Boxer!!!

Sorry, Fussy - hope it's not a premonition.

I seem to have OD-ed on the Radio 4 Orwell season.

(Searching in vain for emoticon with little raised fist and POUM scarf).:D

FussyElmo
29-01-2013, 01:43 PM
Sorry, Fussy - hope it's not a premonition.

I seem to have OD-ed on the Radio 4 Orwell season.

(Searching in vain for emoticon with little raised fist and POUM scarf).:D

MMM what does it say about me I got the reference and kneww the name of the horse.........I appreicate literature

Think we all need our marching boots on

bunyip
29-01-2013, 01:46 PM
MMM what does it say about me I got the reference and kneww the name of the horse.........I appreicate literature

Think we all need our marching boots on...........

Fussy, you really must finish your sentences before you click on "submit reply".

I take it you meant to end with "....Truss's face.":rolleyes:

nipper
29-01-2013, 02:06 PM
My Doc Martens are at the ready...just give me the nod.

I will work harder...

rickysmiths
29-01-2013, 05:22 PM
I have been an NCMA member for many years. I have been a childminder for many years as well.

I have no qualms in saying I am better than a lot of the childminders around me. I am. I do more regular training, I am one of the few in a med sized town with approx 50 cms to have completed the Level 3 Diploma (and at the tender age of 58!). I have a huge range of resources for the children that are reviewed regularly and added to often to cater for a new topic or a child's particular interest. I am lucky to have a large house and garden now, that was not always so I spent the first 10yrs of my career minding in a first floor flat. I cook fresh meals for the children every day. We go out often to all sorts of places and often to cater for the children's particular interests like a visit to London to the Natural History before Christmas to see the Dinosaurs.

I have always been inspected as Good and the last twice I have had Outstanding areas. Yes I have found parents do take notice of my Report but actually most of them are not interested in the detail but are reassured by the thought that we are inspected by Ofsted regularly and see it that at least someone is keeping a general eye on what and how we are doing things.

Of course there is a difference between childminders and there has to be a way, like there is for schools etc to at least give the parents who want it a general guide. I most certainly would not want to be lumped in with a number of childminders local to me because what I do and how I do it and the service I offer is a Rolls Royce compared to their Mini frankly.

I think the NCMA statement is positive and I think they do listen to their members for the most part, no organisation who has so many members and represents such a large body of professionals can please all of them all of the time. Unions don't do they so why do you all expect NCMA to be 100% perfect all the time? I think they do more in the background than any of you realise and don't always blow their own trumpet because it isn't always appropriate to do that. Like other they can't work miracles but every little helps and they are all we have.

You all compalin when NCMA don't publish their views and then you do when they do. They can't win can they?

Lets face it UKCMA promised the world to Childminders last April during a big launch on this Forum and where are their comments and support in all of this?

Tazmin68
29-01-2013, 06:56 PM
Is there going to be a petition against making us join an agency. As if we are going to where will their costs come from. Let me guess we will be paying a fee. Yet another outgoing. So much for childcare fees coming down.

sarah707
29-01-2013, 07:13 PM
Is there going to be a petition against making us join an agency. As if we are going to where will their costs come from. Let me guess we will be paying a fee. Yet another outgoing. So much for childcare fees coming down.

Do you want one?

I am currently thinking about where to take the campaign next...

The amazing success of the current petition has opened my eyes to the strength of feeling out there and spurred everyone on I think to make their feelings known.

I will be starting a thread. All contributions... ideas... suggestions... thoughts will be very welcome.

This is about forum members so all forum members need to get involved if they have a view point :clapping:

Tazmin68
29-01-2013, 07:38 PM
I think we need to make the point that we are self employed and wish to remain so and not be forced to join an agency and then pay fees to an agency as this will result in higher childcare fees as yet another out going. Plus my parents like the freedom to pay me how they wish such as bacs or cash etc, plus by paying us and not an agency it helps with our working with parents. For example in one off situations I have had parents pay me at end of a week instead of beginning how would an agency deal with this. After all IT IS MY BUSINESS.

At least they did listen to the request to leave overall numbers alone at 6 under 8 years.

bunyip
29-01-2013, 08:01 PM
I've not read the full DofE document in detail; I've only skimmed through it so I may be wrong. But I don't believe it says we'll be forced to join an agency - I think it's an option. I'm only saying this cos it's so easy for people to read things into reports that become rumours that get spead as if they were fact, and we all end up in a panic.

Can someone please clarify? Where does it say that we have to work under an agency? I can't see it. :huh:

WibbleWobble
29-01-2013, 08:02 PM
....................four legs good....................two legs bad.................................


wibble x

FussyElmo
29-01-2013, 08:17 PM
I've not read the full DofE document in detail; I've only skimmed through it so I may be wrong. But I don't believe it says we'll be forced to join an agency - I think it's an option. I'm only saying this cos it's so easy for people to read things into reports that become rumours that get spead as if they were fact, and we all end up in a panic.

Can someone please clarify? Where does it say that we have to work under an agency? co I can't see it. :huh:

Everything I have read today says the networks will be voluntary - well until they change their minds :thumbsup:

bunyip
29-01-2013, 08:24 PM
Just to clarify.

I am a member and supporter of NCMA and agree with the larger part of their statement. I sincerely apologise for putting insufficient emphasis on my support for the overall message of the statement reproduced in post#2. I wholeheartedly back the campaign for individual inspections.

I hope I've not upset anyone or left them thinking I am disloyal. I will never complain simply because they make a statement, but my underlying loyality will never prevent me from speaking up when I disagree with any of the content of a statement. As I said, I am a supporter of individual inspections. But I have doubts about how some inspections are done, and I find the multiple ways of classifying CMs by different organisations to be confusing and unhelpful.

Excellent point by Rickysmiths - Exactly where are UKCMA in all this? The silence from them is deafening. As the self-professed "preferred association for all childminders", these would-be saviours were going to speak out for CMs because, in their words: "This kind of support has been missing and is long overdue." I don't suppose it would have anything to do with them being cosied-up to a company that publishes arguments in support of the agency model by any chance? Or maybe the nursery-manager half of UKCMA-HQ approves of the way government policy is heading? :huh:

bunyip
29-01-2013, 08:53 PM
@Fussy

I'm trying to send a reply to your last PM but get an error message. I think you need to clear some space before your message box will receive anything. Please let me know if I need to resend my 2nd reply once you've had a tidy.

Thanks. :thumbsup:

FussyElmo
29-01-2013, 08:58 PM
@Fussy

I'm trying to send a reply to your last PM but get an error message. I think you need to clear some space before your message box will receive anything. Please let me know if I need to resend my 2nd reply once you've had a tidy.

Thanks. :thumbsup:

All cleared you do need to resend your reply :thumbsup:

bunyip
29-01-2013, 09:16 PM
All cleared you do need to resend your reply :thumbsup:

Re-sent. :thumbsup:

(Is that a word?:huh:)

FussyElmo
30-01-2013, 06:22 AM
UKCMA at the minute is a organisation without a voice. Until they open their membership up and have members to speak for their voice is no stronger than mine or yours. In fact maybe a bit weaker as they are going to be a profit making organisation.

I hope they do open their ranks still think people having a choice is a really good idea and it will be down to indivivuals if they want to join or not :)

Tazmin68
30-01-2013, 07:04 AM
It was the article on the nursery world website that did not state the agency was optional. I cannot see how it can be optional as it will leave minders out in the cold with regards to funded places and training. What I disagree with is that parents would pay them not us and then we get paid. My la is awful at paying childminders for childcare provided. I am currently owed 10 weeks of money. If I have to I would prefer to pay them when parents have paid me ie a set monthly fee or yearly fee. It would be interesting what figure the are looking at. After all of my deductions I usually earn about £5k a year.

mama2three
30-01-2013, 07:55 AM
Everything I have read today says the networks will be voluntary - well until they change their minds :thumbsup:

Even if the networks are violuntary just now - we will return to the previous poorly thought out system where only 'network' childminders could offer 2yr funding places , become accredited , apply for grants ..etc.


Ms Truss said yesterday that she would be happy for her child to be in the french system - one answer to that then.... ####off to France and let someone who actually listens / cares / understands early years do your job!

miffy
30-01-2013, 08:02 AM
I have read that belonging to an agency will be a matter of choice (for now) but then if you don't you probably won't be

- graded by Ofsted
- able to accept childcare vouchers
- offer 2, 3, 4 yo funded places

So really you'll be very lucky to be able to sustain your business without being part of an agency

Miffy xx

lisbet
30-01-2013, 09:30 AM
Ms Truss said yesterday that she would be happy for her child to be in the french system - one answer to that then.... ####off to France and let someone who actually listens / cares / understands early years do your job!

Hear, hear! :thumbsup:

catlyn
12-02-2013, 09:44 AM
just had this in an e mail from UKCMA
UKCMA comment on Government proposals re: agencies and adult/child ratios


The ‘More Great Childcare’ document, which was released by the Department for Education last week, has been the source of much concern amongst childminders throughout the country. Childminders have been contacting us to ask how UKCMA intend to support them during the current crisis. UKCMA have listened!

We at UKCMA firmly believe that the vast majority of childminders wish to retain their independent status. Childminders tell us that they do not want to become part of an agency. They have no desire to have their services judged and graded without an Ofsted inspector visiting them and they wish to retain their independent provisions. The suggestion of registering new childminders with an agency, which will then match families to the childminder, will reduce parental choice and reduce the opportunities for non-agency childminders to attract and retain clients.

We anticipate that this 2 tier system will generate confusion for parents and will not support business sustainability for childminders who wish to remain independent. In support of childminders, UKCMA are writing to key members of Government to ask them to further justify their plans. If childminders have any thoughts they wish to share with us, please contact us by email - info@************* and we will include your comments in our letters.

We do not believe that the proposed changes to adult/child ratios which are linked to the Government’s intention to lower costs for parents will be of advantage to the children or to childminders. The issue of child safety and welfare seems to have been overlooked in favour of a cost cutting exercise. Many childminders are already working for less than the minimum wage. How a proposed cut in price will benefit childminders is beyond understanding. To support childminders, UKCMA have signed the petition against changes to adult/child ratios here - www.keepratiosdown.co.uk. We urge you to do the same.

UKCMA strongly support childminders in their opposition to the ‘More Great Childcare’ plan and believe that every childminder and concerned parent should voice their opinion. We ask you to circulate details about the petition and write to your local MPs to express your concerns - before the opportunity passes. UKCMA will be working closely with other professionals to support childminders as much as possible. Please contact us with your thoughts about the proposed changes. Your opinions count and we will do our best to make sure your voices are heard at the highest levels.

Follow us on Facebook and Twitter for details about further plans.


Many thanks,

The UKCMA team