New plans by education minister Elizabeth Truss double numbers?

[Tink]

New plans by education minister Elizabeth Truss could mean that childminders and nurseries will be able to double the number of children they look after to eight. What do you think of the proposed system? Could you cope with eight children at your setting?

Say bonjour to cheaper childcare: Ministers study French-style nurseries to double the number of children staff can look after | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2258972/Say-bonjour-cheaper-childcare-Ministers-study-French-style-nurseries-double-number-children-staff-look-after.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

[AliceK]

New plans by education minister Elizabeth Truss could mean that childminders and nurseries will be able to double the number of children they look after to eight. What do you think of the proposed system? Could you cope with eight children at your setting?

Say bonjour to cheaper childcare: Ministers study French-style nurseries to double the number of children staff can look after | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2258972/Say-bonjour-cheaper-childcare-Ministers-study-French-style-nurseries-double-number-children-staff-look-after.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

:laughing: Yes if I shut myself in the cupboard under the stairs all day.
Absolutely not. I'm assuming they mean 8 under 8's? Or 8 under 5's :panic:I sometimes have 7 children here between 1yr and 8yrs and that is only occasionally and it's manic. My house is not small but it's not big enough. It would drive me insane :panic:

xxxx

[jillplum]

I often have a full complement of under 8 and a couple over 8 plus my teens and I would not want something like that all day. An hour can seem like 5 lol.

[bunyip]

Assuming we actually wanted 8 (which I don't) - how many of us would be allowed to under EYFS space requirements and LA planning regulations? :rolleyes:

[singingcactus]

Sounds like an absolutely smashing way to spend a day :laughing: can't think of anything I would rather do for for 10 hours a day.....oh except maybe shark cage diving, without the cage!!

[JCrakers]

Think I'd rather cut off my left leg with a pair of nail scissors.... :)

[blue bear]

I will be glad when we know exactly what the plan is. That article only talks about nurseries and children aged 1-2 where the ratio is currently 1:4 it doesn't talk about under 1's where the ratio is 1:3 or 3 and four year olds where the ratio is 1:8 or 1:13 where a qualified teacher works with the children between 9.00 and 15.00.

No reference is made to childminder ratios at all.

It's still a guessing game, I wish they would just get on with it.
I wonder how insurance companies will respond? I don't think the change will be any time soon some how.

[Wheelybug]

I agree with you Blue Bear. I'm fed up hearing what they are thinking of doing etc. Why can't they just decided and tell us, nothing like dragging it out. I thought they were supposed to be announcing their plans this week, but again nothing.

Cathy

[Tink]

I don't know how they can allow us to have 8 children, how many houses can fit 8 children and toys?

When I worked at nursery and staff were off sick it was really hard as you just can't give the children the attention they all need, it's impossible were only human!!!!!

[bunyip]

This is probably one of thse compromise measures that Clegg is always blowing his own trumpet about - softening down the policy that the Tories really wanted to impose.

I think we can safely assume that if Cameron and the Truss woman had really got their way, then we'd looking at the reintroduction of the workhouse instead. :p

[loocyloo]

although ... i have had 9 here this evening! - 3 of whom were 8 or over!

and given the dynamics of the group, it CAN be ok! ( as long as you don't want to go anywhere, or only places you can walk or use public transport! ;) )

mine have all got on really well and had enormous fun all playing together.

equally, i wouldn't want that number all the time!

[JCrakers]

I've had 10 this evening but 8 were schoolies and 1 dd who is 10.

3yrs,5yrs,6yrs,7yrs,8yrs,8yrs,9yrs,9yrs,10yrs,10yr s.
But I only have these between 3.15pm and 6pm and have had them for years so they all play nicely together :)

I would never have anymore than 4 preschoolers in the day. It's just not manageable. How do you get out safely and how do you do a school run when all your places are taken up with little ones?

All of my mindees have been with me for a number of years and parents like the idea of them coming to me as baby/toddler and then continuing to pick up from school when they get older.

[watgem]

bonkers-more children would increase our costs, we might not have the space, many of us would have to apply for planning permission(£400 in my area!)and whatever happened to the child being central to our practice? many parents choose childminders because of our smaller ratios, and what about health and safety etc etc, why don't they actually talk to british practitioners and real ordinary parents before coming up with their half baked ideas:angry:sorry about that rant but it makes me soooo cross

[Ripeberry]

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha ,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,h a,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha.......'and breathe'...Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha, ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha... NO!

[Trouble]

I hope not but i think there will be an accident comes from all these changes and then they will change it all back. Wheres the health and safety in all this...???????

[littlelollies]

I sometimes have 8 including my own and its the longest after school stint ever couldn't do that alone on a perm basis.... No thanks would rather chew off my own arm with my grannys teeth

[LauraS]

Hmmm any more than four under fives would trap me in the house, I think, and effectively turn me into a.nursery.

However, I can see it having an effect on cost. Whilst we, as childminders, wouldn't be able to drop costs I think nurseries perhaps would, especially the more unscrupulous ones who care less for quality, as they deal in 'bulk'. An increase in numbers would lead to more supply and less demand, so nurseries (and then us, following) could be incentivised to drop prices to fill places, even if we aren't increasing our numbers per se.

I know I wouldn't want to drop prices but if every other service locally was cheaper and I had no.customers, what then?

All that said, I am cheaper than any local nursery. I am a small amount cheaper than my most.local nursery which was graded inadequate on last inspection and has an appalling ofsted report, a third cheaper than the most expensive nursery and twenty percent cheaper than most. So they would have to drop quite a bit to affect my prices, I think.

[Loushah]

Does anyone know when they are planning to announce what the future plans are regarding ratio's?

I keep watching the news and looking in the Internet but can't find anymore information. It was supposed to be announced beginning of January but no real details yet.

[cockatoos]

Very interesting as they are looking at French nurseries. I recently had a chat with a French childminder and their rules on ratios are stricter than ours. Her children who are twins of 12 years and a 14 year old also get included in her numbers if they are in the house. If they are not there she can take on extra children (but they can't come home until the younger children have gone!). I'm not sure what the total number of children she is allowed but if I remember rightly it was similar to our limits.

So I'm not sure they can stretch the French nursery model to childminding ratios.

If they increase ratios surely this will mainly affect nurseries? I am just going to start working with an assistant and I still think that we will try not to go over 4 early years children, especially initially. I certainly don't want to be confined to my house due to numbers of children.

[JCrakers]

If this goes ahead then nurseries will have more spaces which will be lower in price. Parents will take these spaces leaving myself and all the other childminders in my town with no children. We have around 7 nurseries in our town and around 30 childminders.
Meaning we will all go downhill drastically and end up having to stop.

Plus at the moment I am full but have had two years of hardly 1 phonecall...where will all the children come from if we were to have more spaces? Some childminders in this area are struggling to find children.

How would we get out of the house, fit in the car? How could we possibly look after more than 4-5 little ones and keep then safe. You need eyes in the back of your head with 3-4. I would like to have 4 under 5s but not all week everyday. I took three to toddler group this morning but wouldn't manage 4 and I've been working with kids for 18yrs. The toddler group is in a church, with pews, font, lots of places to hide,fall,concrete floors. It would be a nightmare with 4.

[Bananabrain]

My husband and I have 6 under 6 on a Thursday. Sometimes that's hard with two of us. Wouldn't want to do it on my own, especially in the winter.

[Tazmin68]

Ok so they increase the ratios for nurseries. I cannot see the hourly rate dropping that much. I think that we should be allowed to go to 4 in the ey bracket but also be circumstances as continuity and new business as long as not excessive as I am finding more and more parents want part time and it is so easy to overlap for example. I have one child from 11.30-18.00 after preschool depending on mom nursing shift usually only 2 days a week, another 11.00-15.45 all five days, another child Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays 9.00-13.30. I have had an enquiry for a place Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays 8.00-18.00 but I have an issue with Wednesdays as should I have child 1 then I would have 4 children in the ey bracket from 11.30-13.30 and as new business I cannot do it.
At least we can still promote home baed care and quality and safeguard in relation to children. The nurseries rate would have to drop by £7 a day to be closer to current childminder rates.

[FussyElmo]

I wonder how many nurseries will actually reduce the fees. I mean after all they are a business and more children means more profit not nessecarily cheaper prices.

[rickysmiths]

bonkers-more children would increase our costs, we might not have the space, many of us would have to apply for planning permission(£400 in my area!)and whatever happened to the child being central to our practice? many parents choose childminders because of our smaller ratios, and what about health and safety etc etc, why don't they actually talk to british practitioners and real ordinary parents before coming up with their half baked ideas:angry:sorry about that rant but it makes me soooo cross

Never mind the cost of buying, taxing, insuring and paying the petrol for a 7+ seater car and the effect of that on the environment especially driving it around on my own in the evening and at weekends. :panic:

[LauraS]

I wonder how many nurseries will actually reduce the fees. I mean after all they are a business and more children means more profit not nessecarily cheaper prices.

How many.nurseries will have to? There won't be more children, after all, just more spaces for the same number of children. My local nursery is pretty troubled, judging by their ofsted report (inadequate, for all sorts of reasons like disinterested and clueless staff, safety issues etc), but has lots of kids. I don't understand why anyone would use them especially as there is an outstanding rated nursery half a mile away. The only reason I can find is that they are about 20% cheaper than anyone else. Cost shouldnt matter.to parents, but clearly it does.

If the nurseries had a lot.more.spaces to fill, they would compete.for.the business. Some will do that by lowering prices if they have to imo - some profit being better than none.

[Loushah]

I wonder when the full details are going to be released?

[christine e]

There is a petition regarding ratios at ***********

https://www.***********/en-GB/petitions/department-for-education-drop-plans-to-increase-child-to-adult-ratios

[christine e]

There is a petition regarding ratios at ***********

https://www.***********/en-GB/petitions/department-for-education-drop-plans-to-increase-child-to-adult-ratios

Oh dear I have been starred out! Anyone who want details of the petition please pm me with an email address

[Tunja]

I wonder when the full details are going to be released?

Truss is supposedly making her announcement on Tuesday.
Tunja

[Loushah]

Truss is supposedly making her announcement on Tuesday.
Tunja

That is good, do you know which channel / time?

[Loushah]

Truss is supposedly making her announcement on Tuesday.
Tunja

Thanks Tunja, do you know what channel and time?

[Tunja]

Sorry no Idea. There were rumours which the National Children's Bureau confirmed for me when I sent them comments on ratios they had requested.

[Mouse]

Elizabeth Truss MP: More Great Childcare (http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/modevents/item/elizabeth-truss-mp-more-great-childcare)

This seems to confirm the 29th Jan will be the day for announcements

[Marshmallow]

:censored:

[Bluebell]

Its definately scary to think about the implications about this and I agree that I don't see how it will reduce cost for parents. If I was doubling my numbers I wouldn't want to be paid the same as what I am now - I would want to be paid more for working harder ( and going insane at the same time probably) Likewise as its been pointed out nurseries will drop staff number and reap the benefits of more income - they could reduce the cost of childcare btu this won't necessarily increase the rate of pay for the now overworked nursery staff.

[sarah707]

YOU asked... the Forum has answered!

The Childminding Forum is supporting childminders and asking the Govt to leave our early years ratios alone... and lobbying on our behalf!! :cheerleader:

Please read this petition and promote it everywhere!

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-government-department-for-education-leave-our-early-years-ratios-alone

Don't forget to sign... ask parents to sign... ask nursery and pre-school contacts to sign...

We can make a difference if we work together :clapping:

[TAZ]

Elizabeth Truss MP: More Great Childcare (http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/modevents/item/elizabeth-truss-mp-more-great-childcare)

This seems to confirm the 29th Jan will be the day for announcements

It'll be good to know some specifics rather than speculation, however whether any concrete answers are given on Tues remains to be seen.

[rickysmiths]

YOU asked... the Forum has answered!

The Childminding Forum is supporting childminders and asking the Govt to leave our early years ratios alone... and lobbying on our behalf!! :cheerleader:

Please read this petition and promote it everywhere!

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-government-department-for-education-leave-our-early-years-ratios-alone

Don't forget to sign... ask parents to sign... ask nursery and pre-school contacts to sign...

We can make a difference if we work together :clapping:

Sarah if I may say so. There are now two petitions on this subject being run by childminders. Is this not diluting strength? Would it not be a good idea to join forces and add weight to the campaign rather than diluting it? Angel will know where to contact the other petition which I think was started first.

[rickysmiths]

Oh dear I have been starred out! Anyone who want details of the petition please pm me with an email address

Yes and sadly now they have started a different one thus diluting the support. Such a shame. Please bury the hatchet for the sake of acting together as the united professional body we are all part of for the ultimate good of us all. Come on?

[miffy]

Yes and sadly now they have started a different one thus diluting the support. Such a shame. Please bury the hatchet for the sake of acting together as the united professional body we are all part of for the ultimate good of us all. Come on?

I've mentioned this on another thread.

How do w expect the powers that be to take us seriously if we cannot even present a united front?

Miffy xx

[Mouse]

While I won't sign either petition as I don't agree with them, I have forwarded the links to my local cm group so everyone can make up their own mind.

Most signed the first one, but now I have sent this second link they have questioned why there are 2 for exactly the same thing. Most have said they've signed one, so that's enough. They've said they won't bother forwarding it to parents as it's hard enough to get them to sign one, never mind 2.

I don't know the ins & outs of why there are 2, but is there no way of them being combined?

[madaboutmusic]

I don't think I have ever been a member on here but I received the email about the second petition this morning. I came on to register to find out why on earth there has been a second petition started?! Surely the more we stand together, the better chance we have of getting through to the government. This is not the time for divisions in our sector! The first petition is continuing to gain signatures way beyond 3000 now, it makes more sense to either stop the second one or merge it into the first. I wouldn't have come on here to register if I didn't think it was this important, please don't make us childminders a laughing stock :-(