4 in the under 5 catergory ?

[Muckypups]

Now looking at the revised EYFS it states 3 under 5 can be exceeded if caring for own baby or sibling but are these the only exceptions ?

I currently have 4 under 5 and only 1 in my 5-8 catergory so still in my numbers and i work with an assistant however my assistant is leaving and I do not necessarily want to replace him. If he leaves do i need to give notice to one of my children to take it back to 3 under 5 or can i keep all 4 under the old heading of continuity of care ?
Have tried phoning OFSTED but was on hold for 20 mins so gave up !!

Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks

[loocyloo]

i would think that as long as you risk assess etc, and you can manage the children, then you can apply a variation yourself and care for the 4 under 5 by yourself.

[Monkey1]

Im going through this at the moment after being let down by my co minder. They said no when I called but I'm putting my case together and putting it forward to them .... I don't want to let anyone down!

[Muckypups]

Im going through this at the moment after being let down by my co minder. They said no when I called but I'm putting my case together and putting it forward to them .... I don't want to let anyone down!

Really ? Did they give u a reason why ?
I was under the impression that with risk assessing etc it would be ok especially as I have had a variation in place before September to allow me to care for under 5 :-)

[lauredt]

Really ? Did they give u a reason why ?
I was under the impression that with risk assessing etc it would be ok especially as I have had a variation in place before September to allow me to care for under 5 :-)

To me, this would be continuity of care as you have been looking after those little ones for a while (even if it was with assistant), so risk assess for 4 on your own and there are no issues...

[QualityCare]

Have you had your new certificate with the conditions removed as it states on the letter of intention that until your new certificate arrives you cannot adjust your care provision so this could be the reason why monkey was told no. You can put a case to ofsted and try.

[loocyloo]

Have you had your new certificate with the conditions removed as it states on the letter of intention that until your new certificate arrives you cannot adjust your care provision so this could be the reason why monkey was told no. You can put a case to ofsted and try.

yet ricky smith has been told we can work to new conditions! http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/ofsted-information-ofsted-inspections/111117-new-ofsted-certificates-important.html

[QualityCare]

Have the letter in front of me on page 2 it says
When you receive a new certificate of registration with your conditions removed from your registration you will be free to adjust your care provision in line with these requirements. In particular you will be able to assess for yourself the numbers and ages of children you may care for etc etc
It ends with
Until you recieve your new certificate you must continue to comply with your existing conditions of registration.

All requirements it mentions are explained in the letter.

Have read ricky smith post but would still prefer to have something from ofsted in writing l am not disagreeing with the post but there is nothing official if anything were to happen.

[hectors house]

But it is not our fault that they have such a back log of printing out new certificates - did they get to Sept and think about starting it or were they like us and planned ahead for the new EYFS - think the back log and estimated time we will get our new certificates speaks for itself!

[QualityCare]

But it is not our fault that they have such a back log of printing out new certificates - did they get to Sept and think about starting it or were they like us and planned ahead for the new EYFS - think the back log and estimated time we will get our new certificates speaks for itself!
yes you would have thought that ofsted could have sent out a general letter to all childminders saying that from 1st sept conditions would be removed from our registration
and we could implement the changes straight away and new certificates would be sent as soon as possible. If that letter was displayed with our certificate it gives us written evidence from them.

[lynnfi]

Have the letter in front of me on page 2 it says
When you receive a new certificate of registration with your conditions removed from your registration you will be free to adjust your care provision in line with these requirements. In particular you will be able to assess for yourself the numbers and ages of children you may care for etc etc
It ends with
Until you recieve your new certificate you must continue to comply with your existing conditions of registration.

All requirements it mentions are explained in the letter.

Have read ricky smith post but would still prefer to have something from ofsted in writing l am not disagreeing with the post but there is nothing official if anything were to happen.

But surely, if Ofsted do not grant variations any longer and we need one, then we have to apply the law and grant (or not) ourselves with one?

The new EYFS has been on since September, and that is what we have been needed to implement since day 1, so I do not see how a piece of paper is going to change that, or is it? I find it so frustrating to have different views from different Ofsted people.

I have read posts here of people from Ofsted saying we have to grant ourselves variations from now on and have not mentionned the new certificates. As really, it just is a piece of paper imo. Of course you have to take the old one into consideration, and may be they 're afraid that CMs being able to care only for 1 child will suddently think they can care for 6 etc. etc.

But seeing all this mess in the answers we get from Ofsted, I would apply common sense. In this case it is not easy, may be this is why , I don't know...

[wellybelly]

Im putting a case together at the mo for ofsted as i want a variation for 4 under 5 years for 15 minutes twice a week. One of my parents wants to up their hours in February and my pm nursery run clashes so between 3.30 and 4.45pm i want to put a variation in place to allow for 4 under 5 years. Ofsted didnt say no just to read what it says in eyfs. But i want to know this is ok to do, i dont want to get to my inspection and lose my grade because of the requirements not being clear.

[JCrakers]

Well I've not received my certificate yet and I've already done 4 variations for different days. What are we supposed to say to parents who need an extra day as ofsted won't grant it so were stuck in limbo??

[jo.jo76]

Well I've not received my certificate yet and I've already done 4 variations for different days. What are we supposed to say to parents who need an extra day as ofsted won't grant it so were stuck in limbo??

I agree, I thought Ofsted did not want us to keep contacting them now and to refer to EYFS for everything, it's their fault we haven't got our new certificates yet, but surely the new rules should come into place for everyone from Sept 12 not when we get our certificates.
I already had a variation in place but have had to extend the hours, I didn't even think to check with Ofsted I just went ahead with RA and parent agreement.
I wish everyone could be told the same information!

[mushpea]

I have just rang ofsted after reading this thread because I have done a variation for Monday comming, they are going to be sending out my new certificate asap, I pointed out that the conditions were removed from September and its not our fault that we still have not recived them as yet and he said they only started sending them out a couple of weeks ago:eek:, he also said if we dont have the certificate in place but we use our own variations and ofsted visit we could get in trouble for it. no one seems to know what will happen to us if the variations are wrong or certifcates are not in place though.

[loocyloo]

I have just rang ofsted after reading this thread because I have done a variation for Monday comming, they are going to be sending out my new certificate asap, I pointed out that the conditions were removed from September and its not our fault that we still have not recived them as yet and he said they only started sending them out a couple of weeks ago:eek:, he also said if we dont have the certificate in place but we use our own variations and ofsted visit we could get in trouble for it. no one seems to know what will happen to us if the variations are wrong or certifcates are not in place though.

:eek: :eek::eek: i have i given myself several variations and no sign of a new certificate!

[JCrakers]

When I rang I was told the opposite.

She said it was ok and although I didn't have my certificate I could do my own variations

[mama2three]

It may apparently be next March before we get certificates!

[Bushpig]

The Ofsted Divisional Manager (Liz Elsom) on Saturday knew what she's talking about... she says we CAN apply own variations now... and that we would get certificates by March 2013 latest.

[miss mopple]

I have just spoken to Ofsted as I am needing to variate to 4 under 5's. I have a variation on my current pre sept certificate but it is for named children and two of those children have left my care, but I now have a sibling baby of one that was with me when the variation was produced, and other families have requested a change of days. They expressly said I cannot breach those conditions on the certificate, but they will action my new one coming tomorrow so hopefully I won't have a problem as don't really need it in place until January and should have th ecertificate for next week :thumbsup:

[sarah707]

The Ofsted Divisional Manager (Liz Elsom) on Saturday knew what she's talking about... she says we CAN apply own variations now... and that we would get certificates by March 2013 latest.

I also have it in writing - exactly as it was stated in the meeting Jen and Rickysmiths attended at the weekend.

Ofsted do not want phone calls about changes to ratios and we can organise them ourselves following the EYFS framework.

The process is set out in this document which has been checked by Ofsted -

Changes to Conditions of Registration (http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/freeresources/Free%20downloads/changestoconditionsofregistration.html)

The delay in sending out certificates has caused a lot of problems ... but at the end of the day the EYFS is the law and it is the document we have to follow.

Ofsted factsheet also gives further guidance -

Ofsted | Factsheet: childcare - The numbers and ages of children that providers on the Early Years and Childcare Registers may care for (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/factsheet-childcare-numbers-and-ages-of-children-providers-early-years-and-childcare-registers-may-c)

Hth :D

[jo.jo76]

I've just phoned ofst ed and got told i must have certificate before I do any variations. My certificate is now on its way!

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I rang Ofsted in early Oct said that I needed a variation. I waived my rights to appeal on the phone and the certificate was with me within 2 days

Just ring and ask...

[mushpea]

the rights to appeal thing made me laugh cause what will they do if we do appeal? we all have to have the new certificate so I didnt get that bit but the chap was very nice and I waved my rights on the phone too so hoping mine will be with us soon, on the other hand my CDO dosent seem to think we need the certificate here to do our own variations, I give up !

[Rubybubbles]

I rang Ofsted in early Oct said that I needed a variation. I waived my rights to appeal on the phone and the certificate was with me within 2 days

Just ring and ask...

I did the same got my new certificate quickly but boy it makes no sense lol!