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melco
03-11-2012, 10:04 PM
I am really sorry to be on here again but I have another problem with the lady I had not received payment for.

Basically she has emailed me today to say that she has requested payment, which is fine even though I will not receive until next week.

She said that she could not pay because she had no internet access but she is lying as she has been on childcare.co.uk nearly everyday last week!!

Then she said that she is not happy to pay for the Wednesday and Thursday when her lo was unwell. Basically on the Wednesday she called when the lo was already 15mins late to say that he is asleep because he was unwell the night before. She said that he was sick. So I explained that I could not have him. She blamed the dinner I gave him and then later on said that he had been coughing and that is what made him sick, but as she used the word unwell and did not mention the coughing until a text she sent later telling me he was fine to come I had to make the decision and not to risk having him. She is now saying she has a doctors certificate to confirm that coughing was making him sick so she feels she does not have to pay.

I am just getting more and more down about this and not looking forward to him coming Tuesday as I do not really want to have a confrontation about it, am really nervous and feel sick and things between his mum and me are just getting worse.

What should I do now?

Thanks

melco

blue bear
03-11-2012, 10:16 PM
Print off the hpa guidelines on sickness and give mum a copy, it clearly states 48 hours off for sickness. You have to follow these guidelines to keep all the children safe, make sure mum realises you have no choice it's for nurseries too. Does not matter why he was sick, children bring bacteria up from their tummies and as they cannot maintain high hygienic practice then can easily spread bacteria on. So regardless of why sick they need to stay away until at least 48 hours after last bout.

Don't get into negotiations about this, refer her to the guidelines and her contract, tell her you need to have the money by x date or you will implement late charges of x amount, let it be known you have taken guidance on this matter.

mum24
03-11-2012, 10:18 PM
oh, I really do feel for you.
You can stick to your guns, lo was sick, guidelines say 48 hour exclusion, you have duty of care to yourself and other mindees.
If mum had turned up with doc cert on day one or two you would then have been able if you wanted to take lo back but you didnt know at the time and could only go on information you had. Your business your decsion.

Can you afford to let her go? If you can and she is still angry and upsetting you then let her go, give notice.
If not then maybe you will have to not charge her those two days, but explain that it is only as a one off, and as she now has doctors note. I would ask to see it.
I am not a doctor, but I am fairly certain that without various tests no one can say for definite that a child was sick because they were coughing, not hours after it happened anyway.


She sounds something of a bully to me and sometimes we have to stand up to them or they will continue.
As far as I am concerned I make my own business decisions, even if a child is not sick, but in my opinion not well and I cannot give the care I think they need because of numbers of children here, then they stay home. I rarely do this, but it has happened in the past and I am sure will happen again in the future.

WibbleWobble
03-11-2012, 10:32 PM
call her bluff....ask for a copy of the doctors note

i dont believe her.....and i am an ex nurse (a few years as a GP practice nurse););)


keep your nerve...you are right


wibble x

The Juggler
03-11-2012, 10:35 PM
i would reply point by point in writing.

so, tell her that ok for this month, you will accept the late payment but if it is not in time in future, late fees will apply.

direct her to terms of contract that fees ara payable whether child attends or not and then point her to sickness policy. Explain that without a sample of some sort no doctor can explain the reason for sickness and rule out a bug and that you are sure had it been another child you would want her to exclude said child to avoid her child becoming sick :thumbsup:

good luck hon

melco
03-11-2012, 10:40 PM
Thanks for the replies. The thing is I have given notice. The lo finishes on the 4th December. They are always late dropping off and on a few occasions been late picking up, the mum has always spoke to me like I don't know what I was doing and then the way she spoke to me when I told her I could not take him that's when I decided to give notice. So really not looking forward to the next few weeks dealing with her if she is going to be like this with me.

Is there anything I can do?

I have replied and explained my policies again and that she has signed a contract which states that if her child can not attend my setting because they are unwell then full payment is still required,

The thing is I have been so professional about this and have surprised myself by not arguing with her as she said that my spag bol was too spicy and thats why he was sick, he has had spag bol 3-4 times with me and has had no problems and I don't make it spicy its just the original one, she said that she had no internet access but don't think she realises that I could see when she was on childcare.co.uk and even though she works in a school she feels that I should still care for him as the coughing caused the sickness but my own daughter has cried at school and got herself worked up and made herself sick and the school confirmed they knew it was not a bug but I still had to go and collect her as she had been sick. Anyway what I am trying to say is I have not replied with any of the above just referred her to my policies and as I said I have been professional about it. I am just worried that she will want to discuss it on Tuesday and I really do not want it to end in an argument as I don't want to get upset but feel that it has got to the stage where she is not going to be civil and I am worried.

Kiddleywinks
04-11-2012, 07:49 AM
Print off the hpa guidelines on sickness and give mum a copy, it clearly states 48 hours off for sickness. You have to follow these guidelines to keep all the children safe, make sure mum realises you have no choice it's for nurseries too. Does not matter why he was sick, children bring bacteria up from their tummies and as they cannot maintain high hygienic practice then can easily spread bacteria on. So regardless of why sick they need to stay away until at least 48 hours after last bout.

Don't get into negotiations about this, refer her to the guidelines and her contract, tell her you need to have the money by x date or you will implement late charges of x amount, let it be known you have taken guidance on this matter.

Great advice from Blue bear, there is no need to get dragged down into unnecessary discussions with parent over this, you MUST follow the HPA guidlines



I am really sorry to be on here again but I have another problem with the lady I had not received payment for.

Basically she has emailed me today to say that she has requested payment, which is fine even though I will not receive until next week.

She said that she could not pay because she had no internet access but she is lying as she has been on childcare.co.uk nearly everyday last week!!So this confirms she's prepared to lie to you

Then she said that she is not happy to pay for the Wednesday and Thursday when her lo was unwell. Basically on the Wednesday she called when the lo was already 15mins late to say that he is asleep because he was unwell the night before. She said that he was sick. So I explained that I could not have him. She blamed the dinner I gave him and then later on said that he had been coughing and that is what made him sick, but as she used the word unwell and did not mention the coughing until a text she sent later telling me he was fine to come I had to make the decision and not to risk having him. She is now saying she has a doctors certificate to confirm that coughing was making him sick so she feels she does not have to pay.If she had this, I'm quite sure she'd have been straight round after the doctors to show you. Do doctors even give out certificates confirming these things?! I know mine don't...(

I am just getting more and more down about this and not looking forward to him coming Tuesday as I do not really want to have a confrontation about it, am really nervous and feel sick and things between his mum and me are just getting worse.

What should I do now?

Thanks

melco


I think a confrontation is inevitable unfortunately, but you need to stay calm, and more importantly, focused on the actual issue.
Do as Bluebear suggested, print off the guidelines, highlight sickness, child puked, 48 hour exclusion, no excuses and not negotiable!

Explain that whilst you understand she is upset, you are bound by a duty of care to her child, others in your care, and to yourself to avoid the spread of sickness bugs, and should you have accepted her child and it turned out it WAS the sickness bug going round, the whole setting could have suffered, meaning parent could well have been without childcare for more than 2 days. If you were sick, and it went round your setting you could end up being off for a week or more!

Stand by your decision hun, as it was the correct one.



I am just worried that she will want to discuss it on Tuesday and I really do not want it to end in an argument as I don't want to get upset but feel that it has got to the stage where she is not going to be civil and I am worried.

Do you have anything in your p&p's about bullying/aggressive behaviour from parents, if so, follow the guidlines.
I have a clause saying: If a parent displays abusive, aggressive or bullying behaviour towards me or any children in my care I reserve the right to terminate with immediate effect any contract in place.

Good luck x

melco
04-11-2012, 09:39 AM
Print off the hpa guidelines on sickness and give mum a copy, it clearly states 48 hours off for sickness. You have to follow these guidelines to keep all the children safe, make sure mum realises you have no choice it's for nurseries too. Does not matter why he was sick, children bring bacteria up from their tummies and as they cannot maintain high hygienic practice then can easily spread bacteria on. So regardless of why sick they need to stay away until at least 48 hours after last bout.

Don't get into negotiations about this, refer her to the guidelines and her contract, tell her you need to have the money by x date or you will implement late charges of x amount, let it be known you have taken guidance on this matter.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for the HPA guidelines? I have been on the website and can not find it.

Thank you

bunyip
04-11-2012, 10:01 AM
Try this:
6596

HPA's website is less than co-operative. I had to ask them to email the file to me. :)

bunyip
04-11-2012, 10:18 AM
I'd just like to add that if ever a thread deserved a gold star, it's this one.

All the advice given has been spot on.

Moreover, Melco, your handling of the challenge has been :littleangel:exemplary:littleangel:. That alone gives me absolute confidence that you can continue to handle it well. I know it's scary, but I hope you can see that and draw on that confidence within yourself.

You are right, you are strong, you can do it. :thumbsup:

melco
04-11-2012, 10:34 AM
I'd just like to add that if ever a thread deserved a gold star, it's this one.

All the advice given has been spot on.

Moreover, Melco, your handling of the challenge has been :littleangel:exemplary:littleangel:. That alone gives me absolute confidence that you can continue to handle it well. I know it's scary, but I hope you can see that and draw on that confidence within yourself.

You are right, you are strong, you can do it. :thumbsup:

I would also like to say Thank You :D everyones support on here has been great. I don't know what I would do without this forum. I always receive great advice and it makes me feel so much better about everything. :):group hug:

melco
04-11-2012, 05:12 PM
Omg I have just checked the childcare vouchers and she has paid the full amount! So now to see what happens on Tuesday.

WibbleWobble
04-11-2012, 06:23 PM
Omg I have just checked the childcare vouchers and she has paid the full amount! So now to see what happens on Tuesday.



oooh....that's good!


wibble xxxx

hectors house
04-11-2012, 06:35 PM
Glad she has paid - I would document the way she spoke to you on an incident form, I had a parent shout at me in front of my daughter several years ago, it really upset me - so I rang NCMA and they told me to document it, so I had evidence to give notice if it happened again.

melco
04-11-2012, 06:55 PM
Glad she has paid - I would document the way she spoke to you on an incident form, I had a parent shout at me in front of my daughter several years ago, it really upset me - so I rang NCMA and they told me to document it, so I had evidence to give notice if it happened again.

I have documented everything from the phone conversation, text messages and emails. If she is rude to me on Tuesday can I terminate the contract there and then? But if I do I take it I can not chase for notice period monies? I just feel the confrontation coming.....

caz3007
04-11-2012, 06:58 PM
Glad she has paid and hope the notice period goes without any further mishap x

Fabby
04-11-2012, 07:59 PM
I believe you can terminate a contract at any time on the basis of personal reasons... In which case you don't have to give the specific reason and that it is just that "personal reasons"

Kiddleywinks
05-11-2012, 07:32 AM
I have documented everything from the phone conversation, text messages and emails. If she is rude to me on Tuesday can I terminate the contract there and then? But if I do I take it I can not chase for notice period monies? I just feel the confrontation coming.....

As you have already given her notice, I would gauge the severity of her behaviour before terminating early. She may very well have calmed down by Tuesday, however, if she does become hostile, I would warn her first, that if she doesn't calm down/leave, you will consider terminating early.

I think you can still claim 4 weeks notice if terminating immediately, but contact your insurers today for guidance on the correct way to do this

Rick
05-11-2012, 07:47 AM
Thanks for the replies. The thing is I have given notice. The lo finishes on the 4th December. They are always late dropping off and on a few occasions been late picking up, the mum has always spoke to me like I don't know what I was doing and then the way she spoke to me when I told her I could not take him that's when I decided to give notice. So really not looking forward to the next few weeks dealing with her if she is going to be like this with me.

Is there anything I can do?

I have replied and explained my policies again and that she has signed a contract which states that if her child can not attend my setting because they are unwell then full payment is still required,

The thing is I have been so professional about this and have surprised myself by not arguing with her as she said that my spag bol was too spicy and thats why he was sick, he has had spag bol 3-4 times with me and has had no problems and I don't make it spicy its just the original one, she said that she had no internet access but don't think she realises that I could see when she was on childcare.co.uk and even though she works in a school she feels that I should still care for him as the coughing caused the sickness but my own daughter has cried at school and got herself worked up and made herself sick and the school confirmed they knew it was not a bug but I still had to go and collect her as she had been sick. Anyway what I am trying to say is I have not replied with any of the above just referred her to my policies and as I said I have been professional about it. I am just worried that she will want to discuss it on Tuesday and I really do not want it to end in an argument as I don't want to get upset but feel that it has got to the stage where she is not going to be civil and I am worried.

Sorry I know this is really inconsequential but she might have childcare.co.uk as a phone app and therefore does not need internet access (I still think you are right though!)

melco
05-11-2012, 05:41 PM
Sorry I know this is really inconsequential but she might have childcare.co.uk as a phone app and therefore does not need internet access (I still think you are right though!)

Also she said in her email she had no phone coverage lol!! And thats why she did not receive my texts.

Even though payment is going to be late as I have just called them and the money only went through on their system today so will not be on my account until the end of the week, but I am not going to argue with her about it.

I did receive a call from her today though!!:panic: I had put in my letter that due to the half term contractually the 4 weeks notice would start tomorrow but as I want the lo to have time to settle with new childminder and she found someone else I would be happy for notice to start from date on letter which was the 25th October. So she called today to see when the earliest he could leave as she has found someone else who he can start with straight away. I told her I was happy to do what I said in the letter so the 4 weeks notice starts from the 25th, she was then sarcastic and said "well its up to you how long you think you can cope with him" (said in a whiny voice) I explained that it has never been about whether I could cope with him because I can, my issue is the amount of time I get to cover the EYFS with him because of the times he is with me (2.30-6.30pm) so felt he would be better of with someone that either had no school run or someone who could drive (I don't) that would not be out of the house so long. All along I have felt that because I took on 2 after schoolies after I took on her lo she has been worried that I could not cope so thinks that is the reason I have ended the contract which is not the case. She told me that the new childminder is nearer the school and does not have to go as far as me and I told her that was great and think that will be best for him. We ended it with me letting her know when contract will end. I did think about ending earlier like she wanted but with christmas coming up I can not afford it but only 3 weeks to go and then I can relax, phew!! We ended the call nicely so hoping all the other things she was annoyed about she will not bring up tomorrow for the sake of the lo.

Thanks for all your help everyone x